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Including Strike Mission Achievements as a Required Part of the Zone Meta


Vayne.8563

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@"Zaklex.6308" said:But you still have to do the Strike, public or not, that's also the point...I don't like them, I got that from doing the easiest Strike out there, the Grothmar one, therefore I'm not even going to bother with the Map Meta, just like I've ignored many others, it's not important, but putting any of it behind something that most people will already have made a decision on from trying the very first one is not a good or smart choice.

How do you know "most people" already made a decision not to run Strikes? At least the easier ones

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Zaklex.6308" said:But you still have to do the Strike, public or not, that's also the point...I don't like them, I got that from doing the easiest Strike out there, the Grothmar one, therefore I'm not even going to bother with the Map Meta, just like I've ignored many others, it's not important, but putting any of it behind something that most people will already have made a decision on from trying the very first one is not a good or smart choice.

How do you know "most people" already made a decision not to run Strikes? At least the easier ones

Do I really have to clarify that statement, I thought it was pretty clear, but let me go ahead and clarify anyways...most people that have done a Strike mission will have made a decision after doing one Strike mission whether or not to keep doing them or forget them after one attempt...that's human nature, one try and you either like it or don't, and you make your decision based on that one body of work. Is that better?

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@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:But you still have to do the Strike, public or not, that's also the point...I don't like them, I got that from doing the easiest Strike out there, the Grothmar one, therefore I'm not even going to bother with the Map Meta, just like I've ignored many others, it's not important, but putting any of it behind something that most people will already have made a decision on from trying the very first one is not a good or smart choice.

How do you know "most people" already made a decision not to run Strikes? At least the easier ones

Do I really have to clarify that statement, I thought it was pretty clear, but let me go ahead and clarify anyways...most people that have done a Strike mission will have made a decision after doing one Strike mission whether or not to keep doing them or forget them after one attempt...that's human nature, one try and you either like it or don't, and you make your decision based on that one body of work. Is that better?

Yes everyone should've made a decision if they like them or not after running the first one. The question is how do you know most people made a decision not to run Strikes after that first try. You said it wasn't a smart choice to put the meta behind something that most people already made a decision for, but how do you know they decided it wasn't something they like? Because if most people liked it, wouldn't it be a smart choice to include it in the meta?

Not saying that everyone liked the Strike Missions, but is there any kind of evidence to support that most people didn't?

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:But you still have to do the Strike, public or not, that's also the point...I don't like them, I got that from doing the easiest Strike out there, the Grothmar one, therefore I'm not even going to bother with the Map Meta, just like I've ignored many others, it's not important, but putting any of it behind something that most people will already have made a decision on from trying the very first one is not a good or smart choice.

How do you know "most people" already made a decision not to run Strikes? At least the easier ones

Do I really have to clarify that statement, I thought it was pretty clear, but let me go ahead and clarify anyways...most people that have done a Strike mission will have made a decision after doing one Strike mission whether or not to keep doing them or forget them after one attempt...that's human nature, one try and you either like it or don't, and you make your decision based on that one body of work. Is that better?

Yes everyone should've made a decision if they like them or not after running the first one. The question is how do you know most people made a decision not to run Strikes after that first try. You said it wasn't a smart choice to put the meta behind something that most people already made a decision for, but how do you know they decided it wasn't something they like? Because if most people liked it, wouldn't it be a smart choice to include it in the meta?

Not saying that everyone liked the Strike Missions, but is there any kind of evidence to support that most people didn't?

@Zaklex.6308 said:But you still have to do the Strike, public or not, that's also the point...I don't like them, I got that from doing the easiest Strike out there, the Grothmar one, therefore I'm not even going to bother with the Map Meta, just like I've ignored many others, it's not important, but putting any of it behind something that most people will already have made a decision on from trying the very first one is not a good or smart choice.

How do you know "most people" already made a decision not to run Strikes? At least the easier ones

Do I really have to clarify that statement, I thought it was pretty clear, but let me go ahead and clarify anyways...most people that have done a Strike mission will have made a decision after doing one Strike mission whether or not to keep doing them or forget them after one attempt...that's human nature, one try and you either like it or don't, and you make your decision based on that one body of work. Is that better?

Yes everyone should've made a decision if they like them or not after running the first one. The question is how do you know most people made a decision not to run Strikes after that first try. You said it wasn't a smart choice to put the meta behind something that most people already made a decision for, but how do you know they decided it wasn't something they like? Because if most people liked it, wouldn't it be a smart choice to include it in the meta?

Not saying that everyone liked the Strike Missions, but is there any kind of evidence to support that most people didn't?

Zaklex did not write that most people didn't like it. Just that (probably) most people already made their decision. So it is only your own statement …

@maddoctor.2738 said:Not saying that everyone liked the Strike Missions, but is there any kind of evidence to support that most people didn't?

… that leads you to that conclusion.

And to give you my answer: IF most players would have made up their mind after the first strike mission and IF most of them (lets say 51%) decided, they like strike missions and will do them again and the other players (49%) decided they do not like strike missions and they will not do them again, it would mean, that the 49% would be excluded from the story-meta-achievement, so it would still be not a good or smart choice on Anets part for the achievements.

Of course I do not have the numbers, but I do not believe that most players like the strike missions. Do you?

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Zok.4956 said:Zaklex did not write that most people didn't like it. Just that (probably) most people already made their decision. So it is only your own statement …

Of course, but they also said it was not a good or smart choice. Implying that people didn't like it, otherwise why wouldn't it be a good or smart/good choice?

Have you actually read the part with the answer that I wrote in the lines after that sentence?

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@Zok.4956 said:

@Zok.4956 said:Zaklex did not write that most people didn't like it. Just that (probably) most people already made their decision. So it is only your own statement …

Of course, but they also said it was not a good or smart choice. Implying that people didn't like it, otherwise why wouldn't it be a good or smart/good choice?

Have you actually read the part with the answer that I wrote in the lines after that sentence?

You said it was my "own statement", when I reacted to what was written. If what was said was that most people already know if they like it or not after running the first Strike, which assumes most people run it, I'd leave it at that. But it wasn't, there was the addition of making it a smart/good choice after it with rather clear implications.As for your next part, you answered it yourself, we don't have the data, Arenanet does. Or doesn't.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Zok.4956 said:

@Zok.4956 said:Zaklex did not write that most people didn't like it. Just that (probably) most people already made their decision. So it is only your own statement …

Of course, but they also said it was not a good or smart choice. Implying that people didn't like it, otherwise why wouldn't it be a good or smart/good choice?

Have you actually read the part with the answer that I wrote in the lines after that sentence?

You said it was my "own statement", when I reacted to what was written. If what was said was that most people already know if they like it or not after running the first Strike, which assumes most people run it, I'd leave it at that. But it wasn't, there was the addition of making it a smart/good choice after it with rather clear implications.

you wrote:

@maddoctor.2738 said:Yes everyone should've made a decision if they like them or not after running the first one. The question is how do you know most people made a decision not to run Strikes after that first try. You said it wasn't a smart choice to put the meta behind something that most people already made a decision for, but how do you know they decided it wasn't something they like? Because if most people liked it, wouldn't it be a smart choice to include it in the meta?

I gave you an answer:

@Zok.4956 said:And to give you my answer: IF most players would have made up their mind after the first strike mission and IF most of them (lets say 51%) decided, they like strike missions and will do them again and the other players (49%) decided they do not like strike missions and they will not do them again, it would mean, that the 49% would be excluded from the story-meta-achievement, so it would still be not a good or smart choice on Anets part for the achievements.

Do you believe that most players like the strike missions?

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@Zok.4956 said:Do you believe that most players like the strike missions?

Already answered that. And what I believe or not is irrelevant since we don't have any kind of data. But if you want my personal opinion, yes most players can enjoy and run Strike Missions, especially the Shiverpeaks Pass and the Fraenir of Jormag. They have really nothing more going on them than the average world boss or story instance boss. Unless players don't like the story, or the more challenging open world encounters, then what are they doing in the game? They currently lack any good rewards to keep players interested in them and there is still the stigma of instanced content in this game that scares some players away, but other than that, I see little reason for players to actively dislike the Strike Missions. They just need a certain push and not be forgotten/neglected.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Zok.4956 said:Do you believe that most players like the strike missions?

Already answered that. And what I believe or not is irrelevant since we don't have any kind of data. But if you want my personal opinion, yes most players can enjoy and run Strike Missions, especially the Shiverpeaks Pass and the Fraenir of Jormag. They have really nothing more going on them than the average world boss or story instance boss. Unless players don't like the story, or the more challenging open world encounters, then what are they doing in the game? They currently lack any good rewards to keep players interested in them and there is still the stigma of instanced content in this game that scares some players away, but other than that, I see little reason for players to actively dislike the Strike Missions. They just need a certain push and not be forgotten/neglected.

I believe most people probably don't enjoy strike missions. I can't prove it, but Anet will have the data and react accordingly. Just like I believe most people didn't run dungeons regularly and most people don't run high level fractals. Most people certainly don't raid.

The thing is, it's easy to think when you like something that a lot of people feel the same way. I feel that way too. But I've seen over the years that the harder instanced part of the games tend to get less love than easier stuff. It leads me to believe it's not as popular.

I mean what are the odds that if 70% of the population was running dungeons Anet would have moved away from them?

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@"Vayne.8563" said:I believe most people probably don't enjoy strike missions. I can't prove it, but Anet will have the data and react accordingly. Just like I believe most people didn't run dungeons regularly and most people don't run high level fractals. Most people certainly don't raid.

The easier Strike Missions are much easier than dungeons, much easier than high level fractals (or even low level ones) and obviously much easier than Raids. They are also public content that require no group forming or roles. Touch the portal, get teleported inside, paired with 9 other randoms that did the same, kill the boss, profit.

The thing is, it's easy to think when you like something that a lot of people feel the same way. I feel that way too. But I've seen over the years that the harder instanced part of the games tend to get less love than easier stuff. It leads me to believe it's not as popular.

Have you finished the zone meta of Daybreak? Or the zone meta of The Head of the Snake? Those two required killing Scruffy 2.0 and Caudecus respectively as part of the story, required for completion of the zone meta. Remember Seeds of Truth and the Dodgy Crowd achievement? That was pure joy, or not. The game regularly had "harder" instance requirements to get zone meta completion.

You know what was almost always the first suggestion? "Get others to help you!". You know what? They removed that requirement by putting the harder instanced content requirements for the meta inside Strike Missions, where you don't have to group up with others. The story of the Icebrood Saga (mechanic wise) has been a total joke so far, so they took away the harder requirements inside the story (even the story itself!) and put them in Strike Missions where you will get others to help you without trying.

I mean what are the odds that if 70% of the population was running dungeons Anet would have moved away from them?

Dungeons, even Ascalonian Catacombs story mode, are significantly harder than Shiverpeak Pass. And more importantly, they require forming a group. Strike Missions do not, they are public "anyone welcome" content.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:I believe most people probably don't enjoy strike missions. I can't prove it, but Anet will have the data and react accordingly. Just like I believe most people didn't run dungeons regularly and most people don't run high level fractals. Most people certainly don't raid.

The easier Strike Missions are much easier than dungeons, much easier than high level fractals (or even low level ones) and obviously much easier than Raids. They are also public content that require no group forming or roles. Touch the portal, get teleported inside, paired with 9 other randoms that did the same, kill the boss, profit.

The thing is, it's easy to think when you like something that a lot of people feel the same way. I feel that way too. But I've seen over the years that the harder instanced part of the games tend to get less love than easier stuff. It leads me to believe it's not as popular.

Have you finished the zone meta of Daybreak? Or the zone meta of The Head of the Snake? Those two required killing Scruffy 2.0 and Caudecus respectively as part of the story, required for completion of the zone meta. Remember Seeds of Truth and the Dodgy Crowd achievement? That was pure joy, or not. The game regularly had "harder" instance requirements to get zone meta completion.

You know what was almost always the first suggestion? "Get others to help you!". You know what? They removed that requirement by putting the harder instanced content requirements for the meta inside Strike Missions, where you don't have to group up with others. The story of the Icebrood Saga (mechanic wise) has been a total joke so far, so they took away the harder requirements inside the story (even the story itself!) and put them in Strike Missions where you will get others to help you without trying.

I mean what are the odds that if 70% of the population was running dungeons Anet would have moved away from them?

Dungeons, even Ascalonian Catacombs story mode, are significantly harder than Shiverpeak Pass. And more importantly, they require forming a group. Strike Missions do not, they are public "anyone welcome" content.

And I keep saying over and over again that difficulty is not the motivating factor for many people, rather than having to group. They can just show up at meta events, but a lot of people are simply put off by the necessity to group to get content done. You seem to think the only overriding factor is difficulty but that's never been my contention.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:I believe most people probably don't enjoy strike missions. I can't prove it, but Anet will have the data and react accordingly. Just like I believe most people didn't run dungeons regularly and most people don't run high level fractals. Most people certainly don't raid.

The easier Strike Missions are much easier than dungeons, much easier than high level fractals (or even low level ones) and obviously much easier than Raids. They are also public content that require no group forming or roles. Touch the portal, get teleported inside, paired with 9 other randoms that did the same, kill the boss, profit.

The thing is, it's easy to think when you like something that a lot of people feel the same way. I feel that way too. But I've seen over the years that the harder instanced part of the games tend to get less love than easier stuff. It leads me to believe it's not as popular.

Have you finished the zone meta of Daybreak? Or the zone meta of The Head of the Snake? Those two required killing Scruffy 2.0 and Caudecus respectively as part of the story, required for completion of the zone meta. Remember Seeds of Truth and the Dodgy Crowd achievement? That was pure joy, or not. The game regularly had "harder" instance requirements to get zone meta completion.

You know what was almost always the first suggestion? "Get others to help you!". You know what? They removed that requirement by putting the harder instanced content requirements for the meta inside Strike Missions, where you don't have to group up with others. The story of the Icebrood Saga (mechanic wise) has been a total joke so far, so they took away the harder requirements inside the story (even the story itself!) and put them in Strike Missions where you will get others to help you without trying.

I mean what are the odds that if 70% of the population was running dungeons Anet would have moved away from them?

Dungeons, even Ascalonian Catacombs story mode, are significantly harder than Shiverpeak Pass. And more importantly, they require forming a group. Strike Missions do not, they are public "anyone welcome" content.

I have done all those metas you mentioned and pretty much every other map meta too! Including that Dodgy crowd and other ls2 story achiements also!

This new meta I will never complete simply because I do not raid or do anything that requires grouping up. It's not about challenge, it's about the format.Haven't done dungeons either.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:I believe most people probably don't enjoy strike missions. I can't prove it, but Anet will have the data and react accordingly. Just like I believe most people didn't run dungeons regularly and most people don't run high level fractals. Most people certainly don't raid.

The easier Strike Missions are much easier than dungeons, much easier than high level fractals (or even low level ones) and obviously much easier than Raids. They are also public content that require no group forming or roles. Touch the portal, get teleported inside, paired with 9 other randoms that did the same, kill the boss, profit.

The thing is, it's easy to think when you like something that a lot of people feel the same way. I feel that way too. But I've seen over the years that the harder instanced part of the games tend to get less love than easier stuff. It leads me to believe it's not as popular.

Have you finished the zone meta of Daybreak? Or the zone meta of The Head of the Snake? Those two required killing Scruffy 2.0 and Caudecus respectively as part of the story, required for completion of the zone meta. Remember Seeds of Truth and the Dodgy Crowd achievement? That was pure joy, or not. The game regularly had "harder" instance requirements to get zone meta completion.

You know what was almost always the first suggestion? "Get others to help you!". You know what? They removed that requirement by putting the harder instanced content requirements for the meta inside Strike Missions, where you don't have to group up with others. The story of the Icebrood Saga (mechanic wise) has been a total joke so far, so they took away the harder requirements inside the story (even the story itself!) and put them in Strike Missions where you will get others to help you without trying.

I mean what are the odds that if 70% of the population was running dungeons Anet would have moved away from them?

Dungeons, even Ascalonian Catacombs story mode, are significantly harder than Shiverpeak Pass. And more importantly, they require forming a group. Strike Missions do not, they are public "anyone welcome" content.

And I keep saying over and over again that difficulty is not the motivating factor for many people, rather than having to group. They can just show up at meta events, but a lot of people are simply put off by the necessity to group to get content done. You seem to think the only overriding factor is difficulty but that's never been my contention.

There is no necessity to group to finish the easier Strike Missions. Just like you simply show up at meta events, you show up at Strike Missions, there is no need to group up for them. They aren't dungeons or fractals where you must open the LFG (or ask guild members) to form a group and join.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:I believe most people probably don't enjoy strike missions. I can't prove it, but Anet will have the data and react accordingly. Just like I believe most people didn't run dungeons regularly and most people don't run high level fractals. Most people certainly don't raid.

The easier Strike Missions are much easier than dungeons, much easier than high level fractals (or even low level ones) and obviously much easier than Raids. They are also public content that require no group forming or roles. Touch the portal, get teleported inside, paired with 9 other randoms that did the same, kill the boss, profit.

The thing is, it's easy to think when you like something that a lot of people feel the same way. I feel that way too. But I've seen over the years that the harder instanced part of the games tend to get less love than easier stuff. It leads me to believe it's not as popular.

Have you finished the zone meta of Daybreak? Or the zone meta of The Head of the Snake? Those two required killing Scruffy 2.0 and Caudecus respectively as part of the story, required for completion of the zone meta. Remember Seeds of Truth and the Dodgy Crowd achievement? That was pure joy, or not. The game regularly had "harder" instance requirements to get zone meta completion.

You know what was almost always the first suggestion? "Get others to help you!". You know what? They removed that requirement by putting the harder instanced content requirements for the meta inside Strike Missions, where you don't have to group up with others. The story of the Icebrood Saga (mechanic wise) has been a total joke so far, so they took away the harder requirements inside the story (even the story itself!) and put them in Strike Missions where you will get others to help you without trying.

I mean what are the odds that if 70% of the population was running dungeons Anet would have moved away from them?

Dungeons, even Ascalonian Catacombs story mode, are significantly harder than Shiverpeak Pass. And more importantly, they require forming a group. Strike Missions do not, they are public "anyone welcome" content.

And I keep saying over and over again that difficulty is not the motivating factor for many people, rather than having to group. They can just show up at meta events, but a lot of people are simply put off by the necessity to group to get content done. You seem to think the only overriding factor is difficulty but that's never been my contention.

There is no necessity to group to finish the easier Strike Missions. Just like you simply show up at meta events, you show up at Strike Missions, there is no need to group up for them. They aren't dungeons or fractals where you must open the LFG (or ask guild members) to form a group and join.

@Vayne.8563 said:I believe most people probably don't enjoy strike missions. I can't prove it, but Anet will have the data and react accordingly. Just like I believe most people didn't run dungeons regularly and most people don't run high level fractals. Most people certainly don't raid.

The easier Strike Missions are much easier than dungeons, much easier than high level fractals (or even low level ones) and obviously much easier than Raids. They are also public content that require no group forming or roles. Touch the portal, get teleported inside, paired with 9 other randoms that did the same, kill the boss, profit.

The thing is, it's easy to think when you like something that a lot of people feel the same way. I feel that way too. But I've seen over the years that the harder instanced part of the games tend to get less love than easier stuff. It leads me to believe it's not as popular.

Have you finished the zone meta of Daybreak? Or the zone meta of The Head of the Snake? Those two required killing Scruffy 2.0 and Caudecus respectively as part of the story, required for completion of the zone meta. Remember Seeds of Truth and the Dodgy Crowd achievement? That was pure joy, or not. The game regularly had "harder" instance requirements to get zone meta completion.

You know what was almost always the first suggestion? "Get others to help you!". You know what? They removed that requirement by putting the harder instanced content requirements for the meta inside Strike Missions, where you don't have to group up with others. The story of the Icebrood Saga (mechanic wise) has been a total joke so far, so they took away the harder requirements inside the story (even the story itself!) and put them in Strike Missions where you will get others to help you without trying.

I mean what are the odds that if 70% of the population was running dungeons Anet would have moved away from them?

Dungeons, even Ascalonian Catacombs story mode, are significantly harder than Shiverpeak Pass. And more importantly, they require forming a group. Strike Missions do not, they are public "anyone welcome" content.

And I keep saying over and over again that difficulty is not the motivating factor for many people, rather than having to group. They can just show up at meta events, but a lot of people are simply put off by the necessity to group to get content done. You seem to think the only overriding factor is difficulty but that's never been my contention.

There is no necessity to group to finish the easier Strike Missions. Just like you simply show up at meta events, you show up at Strike Missions, there is no need to group up for them. They aren't dungeons or fractals where you must open the LFG (or ask guild members) to form a group and join.

There you've said it. There's no need to group to handle the easier strike missions. BUt strike missions are geared to get harder. So what happens with the next zone. As I've said numerous times now if this is a one off and it never happens again, no problem. But I don't suspect that's Anet's plans. They're planning on ramping this up to get people more into raid content. They can't do that if they don't move the bar. And if they move the bar, I believe many people will be disenfranchised.

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@Vayne.8563 said:There you've said it. There's no need to group to handle the easier strike missions. BUt strike missions are geared to get harder. So what happens with the next zone. As I've said numerous times now if this is a one off and it never happens again, no problem. But I don't suspect that's Anet's plans. They're planning on ramping this up to get people more into raid content. They can't do that if they don't move the bar. And if they move the bar, I believe many people will be disenfranchised.

Strike Missions are geared to get harder within the context of the current map/meta, because they started really easy. Which is a good thing, ramping up the difficulty is something Arenanet learned. The Whisper of Jormag is already harder than some of the Raid bosses. Maybe the next group of Strike Missions will end at a higher point than Whisper of Jormag. But if they start at that point, then the concept will be dead. That much I agree with. I expect to see another Fraenir of Jormag, as much as a Claw and Voice and a Boneskinner in the next iteration.

Now you might be correct and Arenanet blows this but I think, or rather hope, they are smarter than this.

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@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Some content's 'replayability' may be based more on rewards than whether players 'like' it, or not.

Or, to put it another way, a content's 'likability' may be more based on rewards than just 'fun'.

Strikes are among the worst in both aspects for me: no replay value on account of being boring as hell as well as a lack of a memorable reward. This is the kind of content I only play to get some achievements out of the way, and never look back. It certainly won't inspire me to go raiding.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:There you've said it. There's no need to group to handle the easier strike missions. BUt strike missions are geared to get harder. So what happens with the next zone. As I've said numerous times now if this is a one off and it never happens again, no problem. But I don't suspect that's Anet's plans. They're planning on ramping this up to get people more into raid content. They can't do that if they don't move the bar. And if they move the bar, I believe many people will be disenfranchised.

Strike Missions are geared to get harder within the context of the current map/meta, because they started really easy. Which is a good thing, ramping up the difficulty is something Arenanet learned. The Whisper of Jormag is already harder than some of the Raid bosses. Maybe the next group of Strike Missions will
end
at a higher point than Whisper of Jormag. But if they
start
at that point, then the concept will be dead. That much I agree with. I expect to see another Fraenir of Jormag, as much as a Claw and Voice and a Boneskinner in the next iteration.

Now you might be correct and Arenanet blows this but I think, or rather hope, they are smarter than this.

I'm not sure Anet has a bead on why people don't do raids in the first place. They're making the assumption if people get better at the game they'll suddenly want to do raids. I'm not thinking that's the case. I think the entire premise behind strike missions is flawed. Obviously I could be wrong. But if Anet is aiming at the idea of educating players will make them want to play this content...I'm not sure that's the case. I'm pretty educated about how combat works in this game and I have no interest in this content. It's just not something that interests me. I think a lot of people are in the same boat.

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The
Change
is about adding
Strike Mission
into the list, and Strike Mission
DO
represent challenge. As said, squad based boss fights isn't uncommon among map contents, the difference on a 10 man instance is simply the added difficulty and
transparency of personal performance
. If you really don't care, then there wouldn't be this thread. In reality, many casual pugs we played with truly don't care, they simply wants to get this over and done with, we cleared the boss all the same.

How is personal performance transparent inside these strike missions any more than elsewhere?

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:There you've said it. There's no need to group to handle the easier strike missions. BUt strike missions are geared to get harder. So what happens with the next zone. As I've said numerous times now if this is a one off and it never happens again, no problem. But I don't suspect that's Anet's plans. They're planning on ramping this up to get people more into raid content. They can't do that if they don't move the bar. And if they move the bar, I believe many people will be disenfranchised.

Strike Missions are geared to get harder within the context of the current map/meta, because they started really easy. Which is a good thing, ramping up the difficulty is something Arenanet learned. The Whisper of Jormag is already harder than some of the Raid bosses. Maybe the next group of Strike Missions will
end
at a higher point than Whisper of Jormag. But if they
start
at that point, then the concept will be dead. That much I agree with. I expect to see another Fraenir of Jormag, as much as a Claw and Voice and a Boneskinner in the next iteration.

Now you might be correct and Arenanet blows this but I think, or rather hope, they are smarter than this.

I'm not sure Anet has a bead on why people don't do raids in the first place. They're making the assumption if people get better at the game they'll suddenly want to do raids. I'm not thinking that's the case. I think the entire premise behind strike missions is flawed. Obviously I could be wrong. But if Anet is aiming at the idea of educating players will make them want to play this content...I'm not sure that's the case. I'm pretty educated about how combat works in this game and I have no interest in this content. It's just not something that interests me. I think a lot of people are in the same boat.

You are educated, but lots of other players are not.

I would applaud Anet, if they would make something like a fun little tutorial ingame, that educates players playful how to use weapons, skills, traits, stats, rotations, etc. to better master challenging content without looking at external websites like Metabattle, Trifffon's Guides, Snow Crows etc.

But strike missions are not that educational tutorial, even if Anet probably thinks, they are.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:There you've said it. There's no need to group to handle the easier strike missions. BUt strike missions are geared to get harder. So what happens with the next zone. As I've said numerous times now if this is a one off and it never happens again, no problem. But I don't suspect that's Anet's plans. They're planning on ramping this up to get people more into raid content. They can't do that if they don't move the bar. And if they move the bar, I believe many people will be disenfranchised.

Strike Missions are geared to get harder within the context of the current map/meta, because they started really easy. Which is a good thing, ramping up the difficulty is something Arenanet learned. The Whisper of Jormag is already harder than some of the Raid bosses. Maybe the next group of Strike Missions will
end
at a higher point than Whisper of Jormag. But if they
start
at that point, then the concept will be dead. That much I agree with. I expect to see another Fraenir of Jormag, as much as a Claw and Voice and a Boneskinner in the next iteration.

Now you might be correct and Arenanet blows this but I think, or rather hope, they are smarter than this.

I'm not sure Anet has a bead on why people don't do raids in the first place. They're making the assumption if people get better at the game they'll suddenly want to do raids. I'm not thinking that's the case. I think the entire premise behind strike missions is flawed. Obviously I could be wrong. But if Anet is aiming at the idea of educating players will make them want to play this content...I'm not sure that's the case. I'm pretty educated about how combat works in this game and I have no interest in this content. It's just not something that interests me. I think a lot of people are in the same boat.

Anet are a thousand times better placed to know why players do things in game than anyone else. Even if players do not trust their metrics they also ask players in and out of game. This isn’t Anet guessing and throwing an idea at a wall and making an assumption , they have actual player feedback on why players do or do not raid.

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@"Vayne.8563" said:I'm not sure Anet has a bead on why people don't do raids in the first place. They're making the assumption if people get better at the game they'll suddenly want to do raids. I'm not thinking that's the case. I think the entire premise behind strike missions is flawed. Obviously I could be wrong. But if Anet is aiming at the idea of educating players will make them want to play this content...I'm not sure that's the case. I'm pretty educated about how combat works in this game and I have no interest in this content. It's just not something that interests me. I think a lot of people are in the same boat.

I don't do raids/strikes in GW2 because I don't. Its just that.

I did raids in other MMO games. A lot. Too much even. And I have seen, that some do raids and some don't. There is no such thing as "learning" or "skill". Some do, and some don't. Thats it.

Strikes? To me it looks like they don't have enough resources(time, people, skill) to do a proper Raid.

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