Balance Patch Preview - PvP

[Rickster.8752]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@"Flumek.9043" said:GREAT and BRAVE move!! Probably best patch in history.Praise CMC and Ben.

What im concerned about is 2 things:We nerfed damage and healing, and increased big defense cooldowns.BUT a lot of DEFENSIVE WEAPON abilities AND MOBILITY tools seem to stay same.

As necro,I feel like my soft CC dont matter anymore against 1000 range leaps.Also cast times.Id rather see necro keep its 1 fluid instant cast but not have stupid long duration.

Fast flexible gameplay is better than slow battle against dps golem.And too many random blinds, i always feel like its RNG whether ill actually hit a crucial ability mid battle (OR WHILE FOCUSED).

Exactly correct. They need to hit defensive weapon abilities such as Flanking Strike which should probably cost 6 or 7 initiative instead of 4 iniative. They need to go over all the defensive weapon skills and do this. Same for something like blurred frenzy whose cooldown should be doubled. Basically any weapon skill that evades/provides immunity needs to have its cooldown doubled, or its duration halved or its cost (for thief) doubled.If they ever manage to do this, then this game will be good again. I hope this is the next step but I am doubtful

If by good you mean warrior with an axe holds W key and mouse 1 and runs over thiefs and mesmer then sure. It would be good.

Awww people who still can't see past their own class. All evades/invulns have to be toned down (they are not being enough) and then all damage needs to be toned down and high damage skills should have long cast times so skilled players can dodge them.Like I said though, people can't see past their own classes. The game is therefore deader than dead. Balance doesn't even matter at this stage. It should be about fixing the game and making it skill based again. Reducing everything needs to happen. Evades and invulns need big nerfs to reduce their up-time. And damage needs to be toned down too, in particular on instant cast skills and auto attacks.

Pretty obvious stuff that anet do not understand and players who cannot see past their own class cannot understand. Result of this = the game is dead. And also will not be coming back despite amazing combat mechanics that came from the original devs

Awww people doesnt understand the very basics of balancing and acts all wise.look at this cute little thing, nerf evasiveness! thats why people tank. But our cutepie doesnt understand that if you nerf evasiveness then big mean meatshielidng will be the thing. Who needs to dodge when you have 70k effective HP says core necro, who needs to dodge says mister guard after fully healing for the 3rd time within 30s.Remove evason/invulnerabilities! those are the issues.If done in a stupid way like they are doing now all it will do is make bunker meta where everyone just stats RAW HP and wins through attrition, or just never dies.Do you think the ammount of skills that are MUST dodge got lowered? naaaah not at all, do you think it makes a difference if you lose 60% hp in 1 hit or 50%?in grand scheme of things it doesnt, and you have to dodge almost as much as before to survive.When you nerf evasion, classes that rely on it get hurt more then those that dont.If you nerf burst, classes that rely on burst get hurt more then the classes that dont.If you nerf healing, classes that rely on healing get nerfed more then those that dont.If you nerf teleportation, classes that teleport get hurt more then those that dont.If you nerf condition damage, classes that have kitten condi cleanses are better of then those that have good condi cleanse.and so on and so fourth, all you do is take a block from jenga tower and think all will be fine.

EDIT.and people dont play becouse game is stale and has no diversity, has nothing to do with balance.you ever played dota? that kitten aint balanced, everything is broken there and people play and have fun.not in gw2, you have maybe 20 good builds, out of which there are maybe 6 different playstyles and thats it.nothing ever gets changed

Balance is irrelevant. The problem isn't "omg this class is OP". It is stupid mecahnics and poor gameplay caused by:1, Too much evasion that is spammed2, Instant cast/spammable skills that hit too hard3, Too much invuln spam4, Too many condi spam5, Too much condi cleanse spam

So the whole game is based on builds and just no-brain spamming a rotation designed to beat a particular other build. There is no reactive gameplay, it is all just spam caused by power-creep.

Is having 30 condis applied per second and 30 condis cleared per second balanced? Yeh it is. Is it fun and engaging gameplay? Nope its not. Because it is just spam based. Cooldowns in general need to be longer so there is skill in applying conditions and cleansing conditions. Hard hitting skills need long cast times so they can be evaded. But evasion needs to be lower so it must be used at the correct time to succeed (rather than just spammed endlessly).Does it matter if you waste a dodge on thief? Not really, you have 100 more and you SHOULD spam evades to avoid even auto attacks because the power creep is so significant that those auto attacks hit really hard.

Does it matter if you waste healing on ele? Not really, you have it again super fast and chances are you will take a load of damage even if you heal at 75% because of how power-creeped the damage and heals are.

Should you time your condi spam on a condi build? Not really, cooldowns for cleanses and condi-application are too low so you just spam away and you will have your skills again soon anyway and they will have their cleanses again.

So everything is power creeped.

Those are the fundamental areas this game is lacking. Balance doesn't mean anything because there is no playbase anymore because people left for the above reasons.

First they need to fix the issues with the gameplay. Only then can they move on to the fine tuning of balance. Even considering balance right now is a flawed mindset, and the fact the devs seem to be considering it rather than just reducing everything across the board, shows they lack understanding of the games issues..like you do.

I find it honestly comical that in 2020 the gw2 playerbase (as shown by you and others) don't realise how power-creeped in EVERY DEPARTMENT this game is and how terrible it is. Maybe anet realise? Idk if they do but I would imagine their income from this game is continuing to decline because of these issues. I thought in 2020 people knew how bad power creep was for games but I guess you are an exception so congrats. Maybe you can join the dev team?

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Rickster.8752 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@"Flumek.9043" said:GREAT and BRAVE move!! Probably best patch in history.Praise CMC and Ben.

What im concerned about is 2 things:We nerfed damage and healing, and increased big defense cooldowns.BUT a lot of DEFENSIVE WEAPON abilities AND MOBILITY tools seem to stay same.

As necro,I feel like my soft CC dont matter anymore against 1000 range leaps.Also cast times.Id rather see necro keep its 1 fluid instant cast but not have stupid long duration.

Fast flexible gameplay is better than slow battle against dps golem.And too many random blinds, i always feel like its RNG whether ill actually hit a crucial ability mid battle (OR WHILE FOCUSED).

Exactly correct. They need to hit defensive weapon abilities such as Flanking Strike which should probably cost 6 or 7 initiative instead of 4 iniative. They need to go over all the defensive weapon skills and do this. Same for something like blurred frenzy whose cooldown should be doubled. Basically any weapon skill that evades/provides immunity needs to have its cooldown doubled, or its duration halved or its cost (for thief) doubled.If they ever manage to do this, then this game will be good again. I hope this is the next step but I am doubtful

If by good you mean warrior with an axe holds W key and mouse 1 and runs over thiefs and mesmer then sure. It would be good.

Awww people who still can't see past their own class. All evades/invulns have to be toned down (they are not being enough) and then all damage needs to be toned down and high damage skills should have long cast times so skilled players can dodge them.Like I said though, people can't see past their own classes. The game is therefore deader than dead. Balance doesn't even matter at this stage. It should be about fixing the game and making it skill based again. Reducing everything needs to happen. Evades and invulns need big nerfs to reduce their up-time. And damage needs to be toned down too, in particular on instant cast skills and auto attacks.

Pretty obvious stuff that anet do not understand and players who cannot see past their own class cannot understand. Result of this = the game is dead. And also will not be coming back despite amazing combat mechanics that came from the original devs

Awww people doesnt understand the very basics of balancing and acts all wise.look at this cute little thing, nerf evasiveness! thats why people tank. But our cutepie doesnt understand that if you nerf evasiveness then big mean meatshielidng will be the thing. Who needs to dodge when you have 70k effective HP says core necro, who needs to dodge says mister guard after fully healing for the 3rd time within 30s.Remove evason/invulnerabilities! those are the issues.If done in a stupid way like they are doing now all it will do is make bunker meta where everyone just stats RAW HP and wins through attrition, or just never dies.Do you think the ammount of skills that are MUST dodge got lowered? naaaah not at all, do you think it makes a difference if you lose 60% hp in 1 hit or 50%?in grand scheme of things it doesnt, and you have to dodge almost as much as before to survive.When you nerf evasion, classes that rely on it get hurt more then those that dont.If you nerf burst, classes that rely on burst get hurt more then the classes that dont.If you nerf healing, classes that rely on healing get nerfed more then those that dont.If you nerf teleportation, classes that teleport get hurt more then those that dont.If you nerf condition damage, classes that have kitten condi cleanses are better of then those that have good condi cleanse.and so on and so fourth, all you do is take a block from jenga tower and think all will be fine.

EDIT.and people dont play becouse game is stale and has no diversity, has nothing to do with balance.you ever played dota? that kitten aint balanced, everything is broken there and people play and have fun.not in gw2, you have maybe 20 good builds, out of which there are maybe 6 different playstyles and thats it.nothing ever gets changed

Balance is irrelevant. The problem isn't "omg this class is OP". It is stupid mecahnics and poor gameplay caused by:1, Too much evasion that is spammed2, Instant cast/spammable skills that hit too hard3, Too much invuln spam4, Too many condi spam5, Too much condi cleanse spam

So the whole game is based on builds and just no-brain spamming a rotation designed to beat a particular other build. There is no reactive gameplay, it is all just spam caused by power-creep.

Is having 30 condis applied per second and 30 condis cleared per second balanced? Yeh it is. Is it fun and engaging gameplay? Nope its not. Because it is just spam based. Cooldowns in general need to be longer so there is skill in applying conditions and cleansing conditions. Hard hitting skills need long cast times so they can be evaded. But evasion needs to be lower so it must be used at the correct time to succeed (rather than just spammed endlessly).Does it matter if you waste a dodge on thief? Not really, you have 100 more and you SHOULD spam evades to avoid even auto attacks because the power creep is so significant that those auto attacks hit really hard.

Does it matter if you waste healing on ele? Not really, you have it again super fast and chances are you will take a load of damage even if you heal at 75% because of how power-creeped the damage and heals are.

Should you time your condi spam on a condi build? Not really, cooldowns for cleanses and condi-application are too low so you just spam away and you will have your skills again soon anyway and they will have their cleanses again.

So everything is power creeped.

Those are the fundamental areas this game is lacking. Balance doesn't mean anything because there is no playbase anymore because people left for the above reasons.

First they need to fix the issues with the gameplay. Only then can they move on to the fine tuning of balance. Even considering balance right now is a flawed mindset, and the fact the devs seem to be considering it rather than just reducing everything across the board, shows they lack understanding of the games issues..like you do.

I find it honestly comical that in 2020 the gw2 playerbase (as shown by you and others) don't realise how power-creeped in EVERY DEPARTMENT this game is and how terrible it is. Maybe anet realise? Idk if they do but I would imagine their income from this game is continuing to decline because of these issues. I thought in 2020 people knew how bad power creep was for games but I guess you are an exception so congrats. Maybe you can join the dev team?

you are using big word like powercrept but it doesnt mean jack.game is fast paced and thats it, people dont play becouse nothing gets changed, thats it.balance is goal that can never be reached, only chased.you are bringing slow gameplay of 2005, its 2020. wake up, nobody is going to wait 30-60s to do anything, they are going to play other games.fast paced games are the future, wake up old men, future is now.

[Rickster.8752]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@"Flumek.9043" said:GREAT and BRAVE move!! Probably best patch in history.Praise CMC and Ben.

What im concerned about is 2 things:We nerfed damage and healing, and increased big defense cooldowns.BUT a lot of DEFENSIVE WEAPON abilities AND MOBILITY tools seem to stay same.

As necro,I feel like my soft CC dont matter anymore against 1000 range leaps.Also cast times.Id rather see necro keep its 1 fluid instant cast but not have stupid long duration.

Fast flexible gameplay is better than slow battle against dps golem.And too many random blinds, i always feel like its RNG whether ill actually hit a crucial ability mid battle (OR WHILE FOCUSED).

Exactly correct. They need to hit defensive weapon abilities such as Flanking Strike which should probably cost 6 or 7 initiative instead of 4 iniative. They need to go over all the defensive weapon skills and do this. Same for something like blurred frenzy whose cooldown should be doubled. Basically any weapon skill that evades/provides immunity needs to have its cooldown doubled, or its duration halved or its cost (for thief) doubled.If they ever manage to do this, then this game will be good again. I hope this is the next step but I am doubtful

If by good you mean warrior with an axe holds W key and mouse 1 and runs over thiefs and mesmer then sure. It would be good.

Awww people who still can't see past their own class. All evades/invulns have to be toned down (they are not being enough) and then all damage needs to be toned down and high damage skills should have long cast times so skilled players can dodge them.Like I said though, people can't see past their own classes. The game is therefore deader than dead. Balance doesn't even matter at this stage. It should be about fixing the game and making it skill based again. Reducing everything needs to happen. Evades and invulns need big nerfs to reduce their up-time. And damage needs to be toned down too, in particular on instant cast skills and auto attacks.

Pretty obvious stuff that anet do not understand and players who cannot see past their own class cannot understand. Result of this = the game is dead. And also will not be coming back despite amazing combat mechanics that came from the original devs

Awww people doesnt understand the very basics of balancing and acts all wise.look at this cute little thing, nerf evasiveness! thats why people tank. But our cutepie doesnt understand that if you nerf evasiveness then big mean meatshielidng will be the thing. Who needs to dodge when you have 70k effective HP says core necro, who needs to dodge says mister guard after fully healing for the 3rd time within 30s.Remove evason/invulnerabilities! those are the issues.If done in a stupid way like they are doing now all it will do is make bunker meta where everyone just stats RAW HP and wins through attrition, or just never dies.Do you think the ammount of skills that are MUST dodge got lowered? naaaah not at all, do you think it makes a difference if you lose 60% hp in 1 hit or 50%?in grand scheme of things it doesnt, and you have to dodge almost as much as before to survive.When you nerf evasion, classes that rely on it get hurt more then those that dont.If you nerf burst, classes that rely on burst get hurt more then the classes that dont.If you nerf healing, classes that rely on healing get nerfed more then those that dont.If you nerf teleportation, classes that teleport get hurt more then those that dont.If you nerf condition damage, classes that have kitten condi cleanses are better of then those that have good condi cleanse.and so on and so fourth, all you do is take a block from jenga tower and think all will be fine.

EDIT.and people dont play becouse game is stale and has no diversity, has nothing to do with balance.you ever played dota? that kitten aint balanced, everything is broken there and people play and have fun.not in gw2, you have maybe 20 good builds, out of which there are maybe 6 different playstyles and thats it.nothing ever gets changed

Balance is irrelevant. The problem isn't "omg this class is OP". It is stupid mecahnics and poor gameplay caused by:1, Too much evasion that is spammed2, Instant cast/spammable skills that hit too hard3, Too much invuln spam4, Too many condi spam5, Too much condi cleanse spam

So the whole game is based on builds and just no-brain spamming a rotation designed to beat a particular other build. There is no reactive gameplay, it is all just spam caused by power-creep.

Is having 30 condis applied per second and 30 condis cleared per second balanced? Yeh it is. Is it fun and engaging gameplay? Nope its not. Because it is just spam based. Cooldowns in general need to be longer so there is skill in applying conditions and cleansing conditions. Hard hitting skills need long cast times so they can be evaded. But evasion needs to be lower so it must be used at the correct time to succeed (rather than just spammed endlessly).Does it matter if you waste a dodge on thief? Not really, you have 100 more and you SHOULD spam evades to avoid even auto attacks because the power creep is so significant that those auto attacks hit really hard.

Does it matter if you waste healing on ele? Not really, you have it again super fast and chances are you will take a load of damage even if you heal at 75% because of how power-creeped the damage and heals are.

Should you time your condi spam on a condi build? Not really, cooldowns for cleanses and condi-application are too low so you just spam away and you will have your skills again soon anyway and they will have their cleanses again.

So everything is power creeped.

Those are the fundamental areas this game is lacking. Balance doesn't mean anything because there is no playbase anymore because people left for the above reasons.

First they need to fix the issues with the gameplay. Only then can they move on to the fine tuning of balance. Even considering balance right now is a flawed mindset, and the fact the devs seem to be considering it rather than just reducing everything across the board, shows they lack understanding of the games issues..like you do.

I find it honestly comical that in 2020 the gw2 playerbase (as shown by you and others) don't realise how power-creeped in EVERY DEPARTMENT this game is and how terrible it is. Maybe anet realise? Idk if they do but I would imagine their income from this game is continuing to decline because of these issues. I thought in 2020 people knew how bad power creep was for games but I guess you are an exception so congrats. Maybe you can join the dev team?

you are using big word like powercrept but it doesnt mean jack.game is fast paced and thats it, people dont play becouse nothing gets changed, thats it.balance is goal that can never be reached, only chased.you are bringing slow gameplay of 2005, its 2020. wake up, nobody is going to wait 30-60s to do anything, they are going to play other games.fast paced games are the future, wake up old men, future is now.

lol. As I said you should apply to anet with that logic. They would love another dev to power creep their game. Also spamming skills isn't fast paced at all. It is just spam. Fast paced gameplay is where you has to react to what the opponent does, not spam your stuff 24/7. Anyway I just came back to see if this playerbase had woken up and realised how crazy the spam/power creep was in this game. I guess not. So this game is deader than dead. Enjoy it. Maybe by 2021 you will work out what I said was true. Maybe even when GW2 closes its active development and analyses their game they will also realise how crazy the power creep is too.Spam wars 2. The game for people with no skill.

[tunococman.7324]

Yeah it sounds disgusting to be honest, these patch looks really fail. Nerfing big casting time CCs that you won't land in the first place anyways due to the amount of evade spam, and defensive blocks.

Nerf damage, but don't touch evade skills like sigh. Bad logic is bad. Nerfing damage when they NEVER considered block spam and made it unrewarding to land high casting time skills like Guardian Hammer 4 or Warrior Hammer 3-4-5. What kind of people does ANET hire, like what is this logic?

[Ithilwen.1529]

I hope Mesmer is in for another multi-year bad patch ( like the one after the big glamour nerf.) It's hard enough to play well on Mesmer as it is.

I'm not confident ANET will be even handed

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Rickster.8752 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@"Flumek.9043" said:GREAT and BRAVE move!! Probably best patch in history.Praise CMC and Ben.

What im concerned about is 2 things:We nerfed damage and healing, and increased big defense cooldowns.BUT a lot of DEFENSIVE WEAPON abilities AND MOBILITY tools seem to stay same.

As necro,I feel like my soft CC dont matter anymore against 1000 range leaps.Also cast times.Id rather see necro keep its 1 fluid instant cast but not have stupid long duration.

Fast flexible gameplay is better than slow battle against dps golem.And too many random blinds, i always feel like its RNG whether ill actually hit a crucial ability mid battle (OR WHILE FOCUSED).

Exactly correct. They need to hit defensive weapon abilities such as Flanking Strike which should probably cost 6 or 7 initiative instead of 4 iniative. They need to go over all the defensive weapon skills and do this. Same for something like blurred frenzy whose cooldown should be doubled. Basically any weapon skill that evades/provides immunity needs to have its cooldown doubled, or its duration halved or its cost (for thief) doubled.If they ever manage to do this, then this game will be good again. I hope this is the next step but I am doubtful

If by good you mean warrior with an axe holds W key and mouse 1 and runs over thiefs and mesmer then sure. It would be good.

Awww people who still can't see past their own class. All evades/invulns have to be toned down (they are not being enough) and then all damage needs to be toned down and high damage skills should have long cast times so skilled players can dodge them.Like I said though, people can't see past their own classes. The game is therefore deader than dead. Balance doesn't even matter at this stage. It should be about fixing the game and making it skill based again. Reducing everything needs to happen. Evades and invulns need big nerfs to reduce their up-time. And damage needs to be toned down too, in particular on instant cast skills and auto attacks.

Pretty obvious stuff that anet do not understand and players who cannot see past their own class cannot understand. Result of this = the game is dead. And also will not be coming back despite amazing combat mechanics that came from the original devs

Awww people doesnt understand the very basics of balancing and acts all wise.look at this cute little thing, nerf evasiveness! thats why people tank. But our cutepie doesnt understand that if you nerf evasiveness then big mean meatshielidng will be the thing. Who needs to dodge when you have 70k effective HP says core necro, who needs to dodge says mister guard after fully healing for the 3rd time within 30s.Remove evason/invulnerabilities! those are the issues.If done in a stupid way like they are doing now all it will do is make bunker meta where everyone just stats RAW HP and wins through attrition, or just never dies.Do you think the ammount of skills that are MUST dodge got lowered? naaaah not at all, do you think it makes a difference if you lose 60% hp in 1 hit or 50%?in grand scheme of things it doesnt, and you have to dodge almost as much as before to survive.When you nerf evasion, classes that rely on it get hurt more then those that dont.If you nerf burst, classes that rely on burst get hurt more then the classes that dont.If you nerf healing, classes that rely on healing get nerfed more then those that dont.If you nerf teleportation, classes that teleport get hurt more then those that dont.If you nerf condition damage, classes that have kitten condi cleanses are better of then those that have good condi cleanse.and so on and so fourth, all you do is take a block from jenga tower and think all will be fine.

EDIT.and people dont play becouse game is stale and has no diversity, has nothing to do with balance.you ever played dota? that kitten aint balanced, everything is broken there and people play and have fun.not in gw2, you have maybe 20 good builds, out of which there are maybe 6 different playstyles and thats it.nothing ever gets changed

Balance is irrelevant. The problem isn't "omg this class is OP". It is stupid mecahnics and poor gameplay caused by:1, Too much evasion that is spammed2, Instant cast/spammable skills that hit too hard3, Too much invuln spam4, Too many condi spam5, Too much condi cleanse spam

So the whole game is based on builds and just no-brain spamming a rotation designed to beat a particular other build. There is no reactive gameplay, it is all just spam caused by power-creep.

Is having 30 condis applied per second and 30 condis cleared per second balanced? Yeh it is. Is it fun and engaging gameplay? Nope its not. Because it is just spam based. Cooldowns in general need to be longer so there is skill in applying conditions and cleansing conditions. Hard hitting skills need long cast times so they can be evaded. But evasion needs to be lower so it must be used at the correct time to succeed (rather than just spammed endlessly).Does it matter if you waste a dodge on thief? Not really, you have 100 more and you SHOULD spam evades to avoid even auto attacks because the power creep is so significant that those auto attacks hit really hard.

Does it matter if you waste healing on ele? Not really, you have it again super fast and chances are you will take a load of damage even if you heal at 75% because of how power-creeped the damage and heals are.

Should you time your condi spam on a condi build? Not really, cooldowns for cleanses and condi-application are too low so you just spam away and you will have your skills again soon anyway and they will have their cleanses again.

So everything is power creeped.

Those are the fundamental areas this game is lacking. Balance doesn't mean anything because there is no playbase anymore because people left for the above reasons.

First they need to fix the issues with the gameplay. Only then can they move on to the fine tuning of balance. Even considering balance right now is a flawed mindset, and the fact the devs seem to be considering it rather than just reducing everything across the board, shows they lack understanding of the games issues..like you do.

I find it honestly comical that in 2020 the gw2 playerbase (as shown by you and others) don't realise how power-creeped in EVERY DEPARTMENT this game is and how terrible it is. Maybe anet realise? Idk if they do but I would imagine their income from this game is continuing to decline because of these issues. I thought in 2020 people knew how bad power creep was for games but I guess you are an exception so congrats. Maybe you can join the dev team?

you are using big word like powercrept but it doesnt mean jack.game is fast paced and thats it, people dont play becouse nothing gets changed, thats it.balance is goal that can never be reached, only chased.you are bringing slow gameplay of 2005, its 2020. wake up, nobody is going to wait 30-60s to do anything, they are going to play other games.fast paced games are the future, wake up old men, future is now.

lol. As I said you should apply to anet with that logic. They would love another dev to power creep their game. Also spamming skills isn't fast paced at all. It is just spam. Fast paced gameplay is where you has to react to what the opponent does, not spam your stuff 24/7. Anyway I just came back to see if this playerbase had woken up and realised how crazy the spam/power creep was in this game. I guess not. So this game is deader than dead. Enjoy it. Maybe by 2021 you will work out what I said was true. Maybe even when GW2 closes its active development and analyses their game they will also realise how crazy the power creep is too.Spam wars 2. The game for people with no skill.

you said power creep 3 times in that short message, you sure you dont have a stroke ?

[Ghos.1326]

@tunococman.7324 said:Yeah it sounds disgusting to be honest, these patch looks really fail. Nerfing big casting time CCs that you won't land in the first place anyways due to the amount of evade spam, and defensive blocks.

Nerf damage, but don't touch evade skills like sigh. Bad logic is bad. Nerfing damage when they NEVER considered block spam and made it unrewarding to land high casting time skills like Guardian Hammer 4 or Warrior Hammer 3-4-5. What kind of people does ANET hire, like what is this logic?

From what I've seen they're nerfing evades and blocking as well. Have you read the notes?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

can you guys keep sigil of agility but remove the quickness? some builds struggle with swiftness.

edithey maybe just switch the quickness to fury

[Rickster.8752]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@"Flumek.9043" said:GREAT and BRAVE move!! Probably best patch in history.Praise CMC and Ben.

What im concerned about is 2 things:We nerfed damage and healing, and increased big defense cooldowns.BUT a lot of DEFENSIVE WEAPON abilities AND MOBILITY tools seem to stay same.

As necro,I feel like my soft CC dont matter anymore against 1000 range leaps.Also cast times.Id rather see necro keep its 1 fluid instant cast but not have stupid long duration.

Fast flexible gameplay is better than slow battle against dps golem.And too many random blinds, i always feel like its RNG whether ill actually hit a crucial ability mid battle (OR WHILE FOCUSED).

Exactly correct. They need to hit defensive weapon abilities such as Flanking Strike which should probably cost 6 or 7 initiative instead of 4 iniative. They need to go over all the defensive weapon skills and do this. Same for something like blurred frenzy whose cooldown should be doubled. Basically any weapon skill that evades/provides immunity needs to have its cooldown doubled, or its duration halved or its cost (for thief) doubled.If they ever manage to do this, then this game will be good again. I hope this is the next step but I am doubtful

If by good you mean warrior with an axe holds W key and mouse 1 and runs over thiefs and mesmer then sure. It would be good.

Awww people who still can't see past their own class. All evades/invulns have to be toned down (they are not being enough) and then all damage needs to be toned down and high damage skills should have long cast times so skilled players can dodge them.Like I said though, people can't see past their own classes. The game is therefore deader than dead. Balance doesn't even matter at this stage. It should be about fixing the game and making it skill based again. Reducing everything needs to happen. Evades and invulns need big nerfs to reduce their up-time. And damage needs to be toned down too, in particular on instant cast skills and auto attacks.

Pretty obvious stuff that anet do not understand and players who cannot see past their own class cannot understand. Result of this = the game is dead. And also will not be coming back despite amazing combat mechanics that came from the original devs

Awww people doesnt understand the very basics of balancing and acts all wise.look at this cute little thing, nerf evasiveness! thats why people tank. But our cutepie doesnt understand that if you nerf evasiveness then big mean meatshielidng will be the thing. Who needs to dodge when you have 70k effective HP says core necro, who needs to dodge says mister guard after fully healing for the 3rd time within 30s.Remove evason/invulnerabilities! those are the issues.If done in a stupid way like they are doing now all it will do is make bunker meta where everyone just stats RAW HP and wins through attrition, or just never dies.Do you think the ammount of skills that are MUST dodge got lowered? naaaah not at all, do you think it makes a difference if you lose 60% hp in 1 hit or 50%?in grand scheme of things it doesnt, and you have to dodge almost as much as before to survive.When you nerf evasion, classes that rely on it get hurt more then those that dont.If you nerf burst, classes that rely on burst get hurt more then the classes that dont.If you nerf healing, classes that rely on healing get nerfed more then those that dont.If you nerf teleportation, classes that teleport get hurt more then those that dont.If you nerf condition damage, classes that have kitten condi cleanses are better of then those that have good condi cleanse.and so on and so fourth, all you do is take a block from jenga tower and think all will be fine.

EDIT.and people dont play becouse game is stale and has no diversity, has nothing to do with balance.you ever played dota? that kitten aint balanced, everything is broken there and people play and have fun.not in gw2, you have maybe 20 good builds, out of which there are maybe 6 different playstyles and thats it.nothing ever gets changed

Balance is irrelevant. The problem isn't "omg this class is OP". It is stupid mecahnics and poor gameplay caused by:1, Too much evasion that is spammed2, Instant cast/spammable skills that hit too hard3, Too much invuln spam4, Too many condi spam5, Too much condi cleanse spam

So the whole game is based on builds and just no-brain spamming a rotation designed to beat a particular other build. There is no reactive gameplay, it is all just spam caused by power-creep.

Is having 30 condis applied per second and 30 condis cleared per second balanced? Yeh it is. Is it fun and engaging gameplay? Nope its not. Because it is just spam based. Cooldowns in general need to be longer so there is skill in applying conditions and cleansing conditions. Hard hitting skills need long cast times so they can be evaded. But evasion needs to be lower so it must be used at the correct time to succeed (rather than just spammed endlessly).Does it matter if you waste a dodge on thief? Not really, you have 100 more and you SHOULD spam evades to avoid even auto attacks because the power creep is so significant that those auto attacks hit really hard.

Does it matter if you waste healing on ele? Not really, you have it again super fast and chances are you will take a load of damage even if you heal at 75% because of how power-creeped the damage and heals are.

Should you time your condi spam on a condi build? Not really, cooldowns for cleanses and condi-application are too low so you just spam away and you will have your skills again soon anyway and they will have their cleanses again.

So everything is power creeped.

Those are the fundamental areas this game is lacking. Balance doesn't mean anything because there is no playbase anymore because people left for the above reasons.

First they need to fix the issues with the gameplay. Only then can they move on to the fine tuning of balance. Even considering balance right now is a flawed mindset, and the fact the devs seem to be considering it rather than just reducing everything across the board, shows they lack understanding of the games issues..like you do.

I find it honestly comical that in 2020 the gw2 playerbase (as shown by you and others) don't realise how power-creeped in EVERY DEPARTMENT this game is and how terrible it is. Maybe anet realise? Idk if they do but I would imagine their income from this game is continuing to decline because of these issues. I thought in 2020 people knew how bad power creep was for games but I guess you are an exception so congrats. Maybe you can join the dev team?

you are using big word like powercrept but it doesnt mean jack.game is fast paced and thats it, people dont play becouse nothing gets changed, thats it.balance is goal that can never be reached, only chased.you are bringing slow gameplay of 2005, its 2020. wake up, nobody is going to wait 30-60s to do anything, they are going to play other games.fast paced games are the future, wake up old men, future is now.

lol. As I said you should apply to anet with that logic. They would love another dev to power creep their game. Also spamming skills isn't fast paced at all. It is just spam. Fast paced gameplay is where you has to react to what the opponent does, not spam your stuff 24/7. Anyway I just came back to see if this playerbase had woken up and realised how crazy the spam/power creep was in this game. I guess not. So this game is deader than dead. Enjoy it. Maybe by 2021 you will work out what I said was true. Maybe even when GW2 closes its active development and analyses their game they will also realise how crazy the power creep is too.Spam wars 2. The game for people with no skill.

you said power creep 3 times in that short message, you sure you dont have a stroke ?

Cos the game is power creeped.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Rickster.8752 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Rickster.8752 said:

@"Flumek.9043" said:GREAT and BRAVE move!! Probably best patch in history.Praise CMC and Ben.

What im concerned about is 2 things:We nerfed damage and healing, and increased big defense cooldowns.BUT a lot of DEFENSIVE WEAPON abilities AND MOBILITY tools seem to stay same.

As necro,I feel like my soft CC dont matter anymore against 1000 range leaps.Also cast times.Id rather see necro keep its 1 fluid instant cast but not have stupid long duration.

Fast flexible gameplay is better than slow battle against dps golem.And too many random blinds, i always feel like its RNG whether ill actually hit a crucial ability mid battle (OR WHILE FOCUSED).

Exactly correct. They need to hit defensive weapon abilities such as Flanking Strike which should probably cost 6 or 7 initiative instead of 4 iniative. They need to go over all the defensive weapon skills and do this. Same for something like blurred frenzy whose cooldown should be doubled. Basically any weapon skill that evades/provides immunity needs to have its cooldown doubled, or its duration halved or its cost (for thief) doubled.If they ever manage to do this, then this game will be good again. I hope this is the next step but I am doubtful

If by good you mean warrior with an axe holds W key and mouse 1 and runs over thiefs and mesmer then sure. It would be good.

Awww people who still can't see past their own class. All evades/invulns have to be toned down (they are not being enough) and then all damage needs to be toned down and high damage skills should have long cast times so skilled players can dodge them.Like I said though, people can't see past their own classes. The game is therefore deader than dead. Balance doesn't even matter at this stage. It should be about fixing the game and making it skill based again. Reducing everything needs to happen. Evades and invulns need big nerfs to reduce their up-time. And damage needs to be toned down too, in particular on instant cast skills and auto attacks.

Pretty obvious stuff that anet do not understand and players who cannot see past their own class cannot understand. Result of this = the game is dead. And also will not be coming back despite amazing combat mechanics that came from the original devs

Awww people doesnt understand the very basics of balancing and acts all wise.look at this cute little thing, nerf evasiveness! thats why people tank. But our cutepie doesnt understand that if you nerf evasiveness then big mean meatshielidng will be the thing. Who needs to dodge when you have 70k effective HP says core necro, who needs to dodge says mister guard after fully healing for the 3rd time within 30s.Remove evason/invulnerabilities! those are the issues.If done in a stupid way like they are doing now all it will do is make bunker meta where everyone just stats RAW HP and wins through attrition, or just never dies.Do you think the ammount of skills that are MUST dodge got lowered? naaaah not at all, do you think it makes a difference if you lose 60% hp in 1 hit or 50%?in grand scheme of things it doesnt, and you have to dodge almost as much as before to survive.When you nerf evasion, classes that rely on it get hurt more then those that dont.If you nerf burst, classes that rely on burst get hurt more then the classes that dont.If you nerf healing, classes that rely on healing get nerfed more then those that dont.If you nerf teleportation, classes that teleport get hurt more then those that dont.If you nerf condition damage, classes that have kitten condi cleanses are better of then those that have good condi cleanse.and so on and so fourth, all you do is take a block from jenga tower and think all will be fine.

EDIT.and people dont play becouse game is stale and has no diversity, has nothing to do with balance.you ever played dota? that kitten aint balanced, everything is broken there and people play and have fun.not in gw2, you have maybe 20 good builds, out of which there are maybe 6 different playstyles and thats it.nothing ever gets changed

Balance is irrelevant. The problem isn't "omg this class is OP". It is stupid mecahnics and poor gameplay caused by:1, Too much evasion that is spammed2, Instant cast/spammable skills that hit too hard3, Too much invuln spam4, Too many condi spam5, Too much condi cleanse spam

So the whole game is based on builds and just no-brain spamming a rotation designed to beat a particular other build. There is no reactive gameplay, it is all just spam caused by power-creep.

Is having 30 condis applied per second and 30 condis cleared per second balanced? Yeh it is. Is it fun and engaging gameplay? Nope its not. Because it is just spam based. Cooldowns in general need to be longer so there is skill in applying conditions and cleansing conditions. Hard hitting skills need long cast times so they can be evaded. But evasion needs to be lower so it must be used at the correct time to succeed (rather than just spammed endlessly).Does it matter if you waste a dodge on thief? Not really, you have 100 more and you SHOULD spam evades to avoid even auto attacks because the power creep is so significant that those auto attacks hit really hard.

Does it matter if you waste healing on ele? Not really, you have it again super fast and chances are you will take a load of damage even if you heal at 75% because of how power-creeped the damage and heals are.

Should you time your condi spam on a condi build? Not really, cooldowns for cleanses and condi-application are too low so you just spam away and you will have your skills again soon anyway and they will have their cleanses again.

So everything is power creeped.

Those are the fundamental areas this game is lacking. Balance doesn't mean anything because there is no playbase anymore because people left for the above reasons.

First they need to fix the issues with the gameplay. Only then can they move on to the fine tuning of balance. Even considering balance right now is a flawed mindset, and the fact the devs seem to be considering it rather than just reducing everything across the board, shows they lack understanding of the games issues..like you do.

I find it honestly comical that in 2020 the gw2 playerbase (as shown by you and others) don't realise how power-creeped in EVERY DEPARTMENT this game is and how terrible it is. Maybe anet realise? Idk if they do but I would imagine their income from this game is continuing to decline because of these issues. I thought in 2020 people knew how bad power creep was for games but I guess you are an exception so congrats. Maybe you can join the dev team?

you are using big word like powercrept but it doesnt mean jack.game is fast paced and thats it, people dont play becouse nothing gets changed, thats it.balance is goal that can never be reached, only chased.you are bringing slow gameplay of 2005, its 2020. wake up, nobody is going to wait 30-60s to do anything, they are going to play other games.fast paced games are the future, wake up old men, future is now.

lol. As I said you should apply to anet with that logic. They would love another dev to power creep their game. Also spamming skills isn't fast paced at all. It is just spam. Fast paced gameplay is where you has to react to what the opponent does, not spam your stuff 24/7. Anyway I just came back to see if this playerbase had woken up and realised how crazy the spam/power creep was in this game. I guess not. So this game is deader than dead. Enjoy it. Maybe by 2021 you will work out what I said was true. Maybe even when GW2 closes its active development and analyses their game they will also realise how crazy the power creep is too.Spam wars 2. The game for people with no skill.

you said power creep 3 times in that short message, you sure you dont have a stroke ?

Cos the game is power creeped.

this word means NOTHING in balancing, if you had any exp in gaming you would know that.all power creep does is pushes out whats old, in this scenarion core specs.it has nothing to do with overall balance and nothing to do with overall playrates or fun of the game

[Fueki.4753]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:this word means NOTHING in balancing, [...]it has nothing to do with overall balance and nothing to do with overall playrates or fun of the game

SO you had fun when Mirage could melt you in 10 seconds because they had the ability to vomit too many damaging conditions on you in few seconds and prevent you from acting in any way?Because I certainly didn't.And that's just one example of how powercreep affected both balance and fun.

[Cqv.3710]

If you make those changes to druids after having continuously nerfed us, I will simply delete my account. :)

[storm.3120]

@ruwani.8624 said:If you make those changes to druids after having continuously nerfed us, I will simply delete my account. :)Send me your gold and stuff before that plox

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:this word means NOTHING in balancing, [...]it has nothing to do with overall balance and nothing to do with overall playrates or fun of the game

SO you had fun when Mirage could melt you in 10 seconds because they had the ability to vomit too many damaging conditions on you in few seconds and prevent you from acting in any way?Because I certainly didn't.And that's

just one

example of how powercreep affected both balance

and

fun.

I never had a SINGLE instance when condi mirage killed me withing 30s of the fight and not have it be ME making BIG mistakes

[storm.3120]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:this word means NOTHING in balancing, [...]it has nothing to do with overall balance and nothing to do with overall playrates or fun of the game

SO you had fun when Mirage could melt you in 10 seconds because they had the ability to vomit too many damaging conditions on you in few seconds and prevent you from acting in any way?Because I certainly didn't.And that's

just one

example of how powercreep affected both balance

and

fun.

I never had a SINGLE instance when condi mirage killed me withing 30s of the fight and not have it be ME making BIG mistakesMay be he is referring to time when anet made a fatal mistake of removing confusion shatter from each shatter and packed into 1.Before mirage release or something? So bumping someone with 3 clone axe3 into f2 and them spamming skills would kill them right away, that happened. And even then mirage wasnt the most cancerous, holo ran weaponless and still rolled over mirage (damn Zan and mines) and the list goes on.I dont know what about you are arguing there but PoF ruined the game, not even HoT did that much damage to the game. Pepehands

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Odik.4587 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:this word means NOTHING in balancing, [...]it has nothing to do with overall balance and nothing to do with overall playrates or fun of the game

SO you had fun when Mirage could melt you in 10 seconds because they had the ability to vomit too many damaging conditions on you in few seconds and prevent you from acting in any way?Because I certainly didn't.And that's

just one

example of how powercreep affected both balance

and

fun.

I never had a SINGLE instance when condi mirage killed me withing 30s of the fight and not have it be ME making BIG mistakesMay be he is referring to time when anet made a fatal mistake of removing confusion shatter from each shatter and packed into 1.Before mirage release or something? So bumping someone with 3 clone axe3 into f2 and them spamming skills would kill them right away, that happened. And even then mirage wasnt the most cancerous, holo ran weaponless and still rolled over mirage (kitten Zan and mines) and the list goes on.

well spamming with 30stacks of confusion is considered BIG mistake in my book.and even then axe 3->F2 is SUPER easy to avoid anyways. so its triple mistake.1 for getting hit.2 for not cleasingand 3 for spamming

[storm.3120]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:this word means NOTHING in balancing, [...]it has nothing to do with overall balance and nothing to do with overall playrates or fun of the game

SO you had fun when Mirage could melt you in 10 seconds because they had the ability to vomit too many damaging conditions on you in few seconds and prevent you from acting in any way?Because I certainly didn't.And that's

just one

example of how powercreep affected both balance

and

fun.

I never had a SINGLE instance when condi mirage killed me withing 30s of the fight and not have it be ME making BIG mistakesMay be he is referring to time when anet made a fatal mistake of removing confusion shatter from each shatter and packed into 1.Before mirage release or something? So bumping someone with 3 clone axe3 into f2 and them spamming skills would kill them right away, that happened. And even then mirage wasnt the most cancerous, holo ran weaponless and still rolled over mirage (kitten Zan and mines) and the list goes on.

well spamming with 30stacks of confusion is considered BIG mistake in my book.and even then axe 3->F2 is SUPER easy to avoid anyways. so its triple mistake.1 for getting hit.2 for not cleasingand 3 for spammingNot everyone is a big brain to stop using skills and some skills triggered confusion multiple times. Its not their or mirage fault, its anet and their decision making, we warned them that is a big mistake to do, never listened. And as I said, its not only mirage was that powerful, all classes. (HoT excluded and renegod)And other major powercreep BS to sell more copies that hurt them in a long run and end up losing their own playerbase. They didnt realize these who want to play would buy it, more diversity? They would buy to try it out anyway.

[kmfart.7480]

Profession combat skills arent meant to be perfectly balanced across all classes, but "the meta skill balance" is more about the skill balance helping to drive interesting combat encounters that have many different variables in play. A perfect balance would be boring, and prolly also lead to alot of fights ending in another boring "draw".

While all these nerfs can be negatively summed up as "Everything you do in Tyria.. now means even less than before". That is not a good thing we all agree, but I guess we will have to wait and see how it actually works in practice, before drawing such a conclusion. I just hope we dont end up with a "mass exodus" scenario, because theres always a certain percentage of the playerbase that never returns.

I also hope these upcoming changes are done with great care, & with a multitude of devs agreeing with it, & that it (surprisingly) turns out as fun. "Fun" is the keyword here, and if its not more fun, then we prolly are better off with keeping the "un-balance" roughly where it is.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"kmfart.7480" said:Profession combat skills arent meant to be perfectly balanced across all classes, but "the meta skill balance" is more about the skill balance helping to drive interesting combat encounters that have many different variables in play. A perfect balance would be boring, and prolly also lead to alot of fights ending in another boring "draw".

While all these nerfs can be negatively summed up as "Everything you do in Tyria.. now means even less than before". That is not a good thing we all agree, but I guess we will have to wait and see how it actually works in practice, before drawing such a conclusion. I just hope we dont end up with a "mass exodus" scenario, because theres always a certain percentage of the playerbase that never returns.

I also hope these upcoming changes are done with great care, & with a multitude of devs agreeing with it, & that it (surprisingly) turns out as fun. "Fun" is the keyword here, and if its not more fun, then we prolly are better off with keeping the "un-balance" roughly where it is.

PvP is stale, change is good.I think there is alot of things that are overnerfed, and alot of things that are not nerfed that should be.but at the very least there is going to be something new.If I was warrior main I would be looking forward to playing with hammer and rifle, they propably wont be any good but its something new to try.20might signet looks interesting too. Hopefully we wont end up with same meta or bunker meta, and if we do lets hope devs will be fast to act.

[ancafr.9274]

What about balance for PVE content like faster casting? some skills takes 3-4 seconds to cast until there you are already dead, lower cooldown(specially for guardian their CDS are RIDICULOUS LONG). HELL NO! huh xD. They think about PVP but everything they do about PVE is fking NERFS. thumbs down

[Terc.5736]

Guess they haven't lost enough money recently!

[Prinny.6082]

As a avid WvW player who quit during early core days and recently returned, I am fully on board with the sentiments of the patch which I think is summed up best by: "Counterplay is important".

Back when the game first started, group fights often were prolonged and with normalized gear, even toons that were leveling in PVE specs could hold their own and contribute. I loved the fact that you could play the game in however you wanted and it was more about skill than gear. Well timed dodges allowed me to grind out 1v1 wins as an engineer running medikit and flamethrower in janky leveling gear XD That would be unheard of now in current meta.

Design evolves and things are tuned to the expansions as a baseline (lvl80 w/exotics before jumping in), which is fine, but the fact that there even is a significant meta is antithetical to the core philosophy of the game: playing how you want. Power creep has been insane where the gear may be within 5%, but survivability is practically nil regardless., so everyone runs full burst dps gear or full tank gear and zerg around trying to boon-bomb each other.

So, I'm very happy about the new paradigm hopefully returning to feel of the old days, where a noob is not an auto-lose against a better geared player (and a 2v1 should be in the favor of a pair of noobs). The pro should have to put in some effort and get the win after two rounds of a perfect dps rotation instead of just half of one, which would balance the satisfaction of good play by the pro being rewarded vs. noob feeling like they have a chance in every fight if they only played a bit better. It's a fine line, but if done right, it should revitalize pvp. (Especially now that the "next" big pvp mmo "New World" decided to no longer do open world pvp anymore, GW2 is the closest option to that scale of pvp)

[RoyalPredator.9163]

Seriously, WTF is this balance? We' see, but its total nerfing of good balanced builds... Just nerf the OP meta BS ones and its good as is... After nearly 8 years I may quit.

[Fueki.4753]

@RoyalPredator.9163 said:Seriously, kitten is this balance?

It's changes for the sake of changing things.It's what always has been done in GW2.They most likely didn't even try to balance things.

[voidek.5738]

Off-topic but that main picture is legit art. So traditional, face to face action, but it just works.