Riddle: If condi damage is supposed to be damage over time compared to power which comes in bursts..

[Anput.4620]

Then why is that "time" so short on Mirage.

Pls help i haven't figured this one out yet.

[ArlAlt.1630]

You must’ve missed the upcoming patch notes.

[Zenix.6198]

the whole "damage over time" theme of conditions was thrown well over board with the introduction of HoT.Ever since then it has just been treated as a different form of delivering damage by Anet.Ramping up conditions (at least in PvP) is not a thing anymore.If a condition build wants to be viable in PvP, its all about the condi bombs / bursts.

All in all, in Guildwars 2:Conditions =/= Dots (as we know them from other games)

[Shadow Dragon.1469]

im just salty still from when they changed confusion and torment and still wondering why its still the way it is

confusion used to only do damage when you attacktorment used to only do damage when you moved

made since to me, now they do damage regardless of what you do.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

10 sec or 3 sec, both time.

[Zenix.6198]

@Shadow Dragon.1469 said:im just salty still from when they changed confusion and torment and still wondering why its still the way it is

confusion used to only do damage when you attacktorment used to only do damage when you moved

made since to me, now they do damage regardless of what you do.

mehConfusion basically does no dmg when not casting (10 dmg per second lel)and torment is about ~25% worse than bleeding when not moving.

[mortrialus.3062]

@"Anput.4620" said:Then why is that "time" so short on Mirage.

Pls help i haven't figured this one out yet.

These are some damage per second numbers I calculated a while back;

Condition Mirage Pistol 4 in to Staff 3 Clones Ambush Spam: 2465Fire Weaver Lava Skin Into Fire Attunement Glyph of Elemental Power and Primordial Stance: 3279

vs

Photon Forge Corona Burst Might stack into quickness autos: 4468Ranger Quickening Zephyr into Maul into greatsword autos with Rock Gazelle: 4452Sic Em Soulbeast Merged Quickening Zephyr Rapid Fire into autos: 5232Reaper's Shroud Reaper's Onslaught Autos: 4436Reaper's Shroud Soul Spiral into Autos: 5822Herald Phase Traversal into Sword 4+5 then Auto Attacks: 5882Herald Phase Traversal into Auto Attacks with Impossible Odds: 6576Core SA Thief Assassin Signet into Backstab+Steal into Auto Attacks: 8612Daredevil Pistol Whip Spam with Lesser Haste Proc: 4361Deadeye Binding Shadows into Mark into Three Round Burst Spam: 7162Warrior Bull's Charge into Frenzy Arcing Slice then Hundred Blades then Whirlwind Attack Right Before the knockdown ends: 7714

Power damage has significantly higher burst than condition builds, literally anywhere between 33% higher to over 250% higher burst DPS. Even when comparing the burstiest condition classes using their burst combos. These numbers are all based on meta builds with realistic stats that you'd find from Gods of PvP or MetaBattle.

Basically, a condition mirage might kill you in 6.5 seconds if you stand still eat every attack and don't cleanse. Multiple power builds can kill you in under 2 seconds. The idea that any condition build is bursting you faster than any power build is literally just in your head and does not play out when damage numbers are properly calculated.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"Anput.4620" said:Then why is that "time" so short on Mirage.

Pls help i haven't figured this one out yet.

if you stand still and take it like a champ for 5s then its not even consider burst.what Is burst is dying in 0,7s becouse quickness warrior landed BC->arcing->gs3.and from the moment BC touched you, you die withing 1s. Thats burst.Condi burst is a joke, closes thing you can come to is eat like p4 ( channel ) + scept 3 ( channel ) whith ambushes ( clone channel ).and even then its closer to 3s of applying condis and about 6s+ before you actually die. Assuming you dont cleanse.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@"Anput.4620" said:Then why is that "time" so short on Mirage.

Pls help i haven't figured this one out yet.

Its because mirage class design is so broken that they received 2 years worth of nerfs to damage & condi application/duration instead of fixing the fundamental design flaws of the class.

[Spellhunter.9675]

@"Zenix.6198" said:the whole "damage over time" theme of conditions was thrown well over board with the introduction of HoT.Condibomb and condibusrts existed in vanilla days. Basically it was always a thing in this game.

[saerni.2584]

I’ll point out that condi burst became required as cleanse was buffed heavily to the point you either burst down the enemy or they would never die to condi.

The ability to burst conditions has also been attributed to ability to stack relatively fewer damaging conditions and cover condi to ramp up damage despite cleanse. In this sense condi has always burst people if played more effectively on certain builds or against players who didn’t have any cleanse and thus immediately started to take significant ramping damage from condi (and dying after 10 seconds).

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@"Anput.4620" said:Then why is that "time" so short on Mirage.

Pls help i haven't figured this one out yet.

Its because mirage class design is so broken that they received 2 years worth of nerfs to damage & condi application/duration instead of fixing the fundamental design flaws of the class.

Funnily enough the nerfs mirage got were all suggested by this same community that nowadays blame ANerf for nerfing the wrong things.

@Shadow Dragon.1469 said:im just salty still from when they changed confusion and torment and still wondering why its still the way it is

confusion used to only do damage when you attacktorment used to only do damage when you moved

made since to me, now they do damage regardless of what you do.

True, confusion also dealt more damage than nowadays.

[Kondor.2904]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@"Anput.4620" said:Then why is that "time" so short on Mirage.

Pls help i haven't figured this one out yet.

Its because mirage class design is so broken that they received 2 years worth of nerfs to damage & condi application/duration instead of fixing the fundamental design flaws of the class.

Funnily enough the nerfs mirage got were all suggested by this same community that nowadays blame ANerf for nerfing the wrong things.

So much this.

[ZDragon.3046]

its questionable case by case some condi burst out ramp power burst and that just simply shouldnt happen the game is not balanced correctly.Even now fire weaver (provided it can land everything) still has more burst in condi then just about any other power burst thats not a 1 shot gimmick.

In pve its insane to see how fast a condi weaver ramps vs almost any other power build

Reality is that weavers condi burst is mad high but its hard for it to land all its skills on you but 1 touch could mean your death if you have no clears it only takes 1-3 baby taps to apply 7+ burn .

In the case of Mirage its more like (at least before the staff nerf) that the conditions never stopped incoming and it was just a constnat stream of burn, bleed, and torment with higher burst ontop of it the duelst combo alone could stack like 15-20+ bleeds

Ive been hit by some combos off of one magic bullet that exceeded 25 bleed 25 torment with confusion on the side too but this is on a profession with limited evades and some times you dont have a choice but to soak the damage but yeah condi burst are just insanely high right now and dont work the way they "should work" as some one else pointed out there is too much cleanse in the game. We are looking at you [shake it Off!] (just an example for laughs)

Every condi build imo should be ramping at about the speed necro ramps condi without fear dealing damage which if you test it out is actually pretty slow compared to almost every other condi option in the game even when you land all your big skills. IF every condi build got scaled back to that condi would feel like its actually over time and not instant melts.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@"ZDragon.3046" said:its questionable case by case some condi burst out ramp power burst and that just simply shouldnt happen the game is not balanced correctly.Even now fire weaver (provided it can land everything) still has more burst in condi then just about any other power burst thats not a 1 shot gimmick.

In pve its insane to see how fast a condi weaver ramps vs almost any other power build

Reality is that weavers condi burst is mad high but its hard for it to land all its skills on you but 1 touch could mean your death if you have no clears it only takes 1-3 baby taps to apply 7+ burn .

In the case of Mirage its more like (at least before the staff nerf) that the conditions never stopped incoming and it was just a constnat stream of burn, bleed, and torment with higher burst ontop of it the duelst combo alone could stack like 15-20+ bleeds

Ive been hit by some combos off of one magic bullet that exceeded 25 bleed 25 torment with confusion on the side too but this is on a profession with limited evades and some times you dont have a choice but to soak the damage but yeah condi burst are just insanely high right now and dont work the way they "should work" as some one else pointed out there is too much cleanse in the game. We are looking at you [shake it Off!] (just an example for laughs)

Every condi build imo should be ramping at about the speed necro ramps condi without fear dealing damage which if you test it out is actually pretty slow compared to almost every other condi option in the game even when you land all your big skills. IF every condi build got scaled back to that condi would feel like its actually over time and not instant melts.

This is just plain wrong. Condi burst on fire weaver comes from pyro vortex, usually with support from PS/GoEP. You only get massive burn stacks if you stand in the fire for 2.5s like braindead AI in PvE.

Otherwise, fire weaver stacks burns in small amounts per application. It just has many potential sources (e.g. attuning to fire, dodging in fire, pulsing from PS, etc.).

What you want is condi as light supplemental damage. It won't work without severely nerfing all cleanse. Condi damage is already mostly irrelevant due to cleansing.

[Anput.4620]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Anput.4620" said:Then why is that "time" so short on Mirage.

Pls help i haven't figured this one out yet.

These are some damage per second numbers I calculated a while back;

Condition Mirage Pistol 4 in to Staff 3 Clones Ambush Spam: 2465Fire Weaver Lava Skin Into Fire Attunement Glyph of Elemental Power and Primordial Stance: 3279

vs

Photon Forge Corona Burst Might stack into quickness autos: 4468Ranger Quickening Zephyr into Maul into greatsword autos with Rock Gazelle: 4452Sic Em Soulbeast Merged Quickening Zephyr Rapid Fire into autos: 5232Reaper's Shroud Reaper's Onslaught Autos: 4436Reaper's Shroud Soul Spiral into Autos: 5822Herald Phase Traversal into Sword 4+5 then Auto Attacks: 5882Herald Phase Traversal into Auto Attacks with Impossible Odds: 6576Core SA Thief Assassin Signet into Backstab+Steal into Auto Attacks: 8612Daredevil Pistol Whip Spam with Lesser Haste Proc: 4361Deadeye Binding Shadows into Mark into Three Round Burst Spam: 7162Warrior Bull's Charge into Frenzy Arcing Slice then Hundred Blades then Whirlwind Attack Right Before the knockdown ends: 7714

Power damage has significantly higher burst than condition builds, literally anywhere between 33% higher to over 250% higher burst DPS. Even when comparing the burstiest condition classes using their burst combos. These numbers are all based on meta builds with realistic stats that you'd find from Gods of PvP or MetaBattle.

Basically, a condition mirage might kill you in 6.5 seconds if you stand still eat every attack and don't cleanse. Multiple power builds can kill you in under 2 seconds. The idea that any condition build is bursting you faster than any power build is literally just in your head and does not play out when damage numbers are properly calculated.

Jokes aside, whenever i face a condi mirage in full trailblazer, as i mainly play WvW, the conditions never end no matter how much i cleanse, i can have permanently pulsing cleanse with antitoxin runes and it still doesn't end and you can die in 3 seconds to a build with 3,500 armor if you have a regular amount of cleanse, the conditions never, ever stop unlike other builds which run out of resources or have to use cd's.

And if you tell me ThIs Is ThE pVp FoRuM, i just wanted to make a joke lol, as mirage has never felt not ridiculous imo.

[ZDragon.3046]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:its questionable case by case some condi burst out ramp power burst and that just simply shouldnt happen the game is not balanced correctly.Even now fire weaver (provided it can land everything) still has more burst in condi then just about any other power burst thats not a 1 shot gimmick.

In pve its insane to see how fast a condi weaver ramps vs almost any other power build

Reality is that weavers condi burst is mad high but its hard for it to land all its skills on you but 1 touch could mean your death if you have no clears it only takes 1-3 baby taps to apply 7+ burn .

In the case of Mirage its more like (at least before the staff nerf) that the conditions never stopped incoming and it was just a constnat stream of burn, bleed, and torment with higher burst ontop of it the duelst combo alone could stack like 15-20+ bleeds

Ive been hit by some combos off of one magic bullet that exceeded 25 bleed 25 torment with confusion on the side too but this is on a profession with limited evades and some times you dont have a choice but to soak the damage but yeah condi burst are just insanely high right now and dont work the way they "should work" as some one else pointed out there is too much cleanse in the game. We are looking at you

[shake it Off!]

(just an example for laughs)

Every condi build imo should be ramping at about the speed necro ramps condi without fear dealing damage which if you test it out is actually pretty slow compared to almost every other condi option in the game even when you land all your big skills. IF every condi build got scaled back to that condi would feel like its actually over time and not instant melts.

This is just plain wrong. Condi burst on fire weaver comes from pyro vortex, usually with support from PS/GoEP. You only get massive burn stacks if you stand in the fire for 2.5s like braindead AI in PvE.

if you say so.... ive only been hit with various things that set me up to 7 burn that was not pyro vortex but you are better than me and know everything

Its not like you can press primordial stance or glyph of elemental power which applies burns on hits from any strike meaning 1 hit from ANY SKILL can apply 2-3 stacks of burn depending on the situation... so yeah getting hit 1-3 times from any attack under the right situation certainly cant apply 7+ burn im wong yup... ok my guy.

Im not going to argue with someone who thinks fire weaver is not silly in the current build where it can just smash stances and run at a target with stability and be extra safe while applying passive burn. Most weavers know their builds are silly and extra oppressive pyro vortex is litterally one of the most rare skills to get hit with from a fire weaver cause its range is extra short you literally dont land it unless the target is cc'ed and cant break the stun or stands there like an AI (which i dont do).... but thats the only skill that makes fire weaver insane... ok.. dude....

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:This is just plain wrong. Condi burst on fire weaver comes from pyro vortex, usually with support from PS/GoEP. You only get massive burn stacks if you stand in the fire for 2.5s like braindead AI in PvE.

Except Primordial stance and Glyph each put their own burn stacks on you and don't require the opponent to stand in any aoe, just get hit by a pulse. Kinda putting the cart before the horse there.

[Zenix.6198]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:This is just plain wrong. Condi burst on fire weaver comes from pyro vortex, usually with support from PS/GoEP. You only get massive burn stacks if you stand in the fire for 2.5s like braindead AI in PvE.

Except Primordial stance and Glyph each put their own burn stacks on you and don't require the opponent to stand in any aoe, just get hit by a pulse. Kinda putting the cart before the horse there.

can confirm.GoEP proccing off Primordial stance is far more reliable than any pyro-vortex cleave.Though it is true that pyro-vortex + GoEP has more dmg potential....its just way harder to pull off.

For fighting most classes though, it really doesnt matter what combo you go with.When they have cleanses left, they live, when they dont, they die. Easy as that.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:its questionable case by case some condi burst out ramp power burst and that just simply shouldnt happen the game is not balanced correctly.Even now fire weaver (provided it can land everything) still has more burst in condi then just about any other power burst thats not a 1 shot gimmick.

In pve its insane to see how fast a condi weaver ramps vs almost any other power build

Reality is that weavers condi burst is mad high but its hard for it to land all its skills on you but 1 touch could mean your death if you have no clears it only takes 1-3 baby taps to apply 7+ burn .

In the case of Mirage its more like (at least before the staff nerf) that the conditions never stopped incoming and it was just a constnat stream of burn, bleed, and torment with higher burst ontop of it the duelst combo alone could stack like 15-20+ bleeds

Ive been hit by some combos off of one magic bullet that exceeded 25 bleed 25 torment with confusion on the side too but this is on a profession with limited evades and some times you dont have a choice but to soak the damage but yeah condi burst are just insanely high right now and dont work the way they "should work" as some one else pointed out there is too much cleanse in the game. We are looking at you

[shake it Off!]

(just an example for laughs)

Every condi build imo should be ramping at about the speed necro ramps condi without fear dealing damage which if you test it out is actually pretty slow compared to almost every other condi option in the game even when you land all your big skills. IF every condi build got scaled back to that condi would feel like its actually over time and not instant melts.

This is just plain wrong. Condi burst on fire weaver comes from pyro vortex, usually with support from PS/GoEP. You only get massive burn stacks if you stand in the fire for 2.5s like braindead AI in PvE.

if you say so.... ive only been hit with various things that set me up to 7 burn that was not pyro vortex but you are better than me and know everything

Its not like you can press primordial stance or glyph of elemental power which applies burns on hits from any strike meaning 1 hit from ANY SKILL can apply 2-3 stacks of burn depending on the situation... so yeah getting hit 1-3 times from any attack under the right situation certainly cant apply 7+ burn im wong yup... ok my guy.

Im not going to argue with someone who thinks fire weaver is not silly in the current build where it can just smash stances and run at a target with stability and be extra safe while applying passive burn. Most weavers know their builds are silly and extra oppressive pyro vortex is litterally one of the most rare skills to get hit with from a fire weaver cause its range is extra short you literally dont land it unless the target is cc'ed and cant break the stun or stands there like an AI (which i dont do).... but thats the only skill that makes fire weaver insane... ok.. dude....

You said:

"It's questionable case by case some condi burst out ramp power burst and that just simply shouldnt happen the game is not balanced correctly.Even now fire weaver (provided it can land everything) still has more burst in condi then just about any other power burst thats not a 1 shot gimmick."

A 7 stack burn just from getting close to a weaver is definitely OP. No argument from me. However, it is not "condi burst that out-ramps power burst". As I said, that is just plain wrong. The killing burst you were initially talking about can only come from standing in the fire (usually CC'd or just not paying attention!). Pyro vortex with GoEP/PS is where you get that "1-shot" meme kind of burst that feels a lot more like a power burst build than a condi build.

But yes, of course weaver is overtuned. The ability to deal that kind of damage while evading, healing, and pumping out boons and barrier is just too much. It's also about the only way a build designed for PvE like sword weaver can be meta in PvP. Seriously, ask yourself this question. How else do you make a competitive build with bottom tier health and armor along with almost zero mobility or ranged capability? It almost has to be tanky as hell with excellent damage to even stand a chance!

[mortrialus.3062]

@Anput.4620 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Then why is that "time" so short on Mirage.

Pls help i haven't figured this one out yet.

These are some damage per second numbers I calculated a while back;

Condition Mirage Pistol 4 in to Staff 3 Clones Ambush Spam: 2465Fire Weaver Lava Skin Into Fire Attunement Glyph of Elemental Power and Primordial Stance: 3279

vs

Photon Forge Corona Burst Might stack into quickness autos: 4468Ranger Quickening Zephyr into Maul into greatsword autos with Rock Gazelle: 4452Sic Em Soulbeast Merged Quickening Zephyr Rapid Fire into autos: 5232Reaper's Shroud Reaper's Onslaught Autos: 4436Reaper's Shroud Soul Spiral into Autos: 5822Herald Phase Traversal into Sword 4+5 then Auto Attacks: 5882Herald Phase Traversal into Auto Attacks with Impossible Odds: 6576Core SA Thief Assassin Signet into Backstab+Steal into Auto Attacks: 8612Daredevil Pistol Whip Spam with Lesser Haste Proc: 4361Deadeye Binding Shadows into Mark into Three Round Burst Spam: 7162Warrior Bull's Charge into Frenzy Arcing Slice then Hundred Blades then Whirlwind Attack Right Before the knockdown ends: 7714

Power damage has significantly higher burst than condition builds, literally anywhere between 33% higher to over 250% higher burst DPS. Even when comparing the burstiest condition classes using their burst combos. These numbers are all based on meta builds with realistic stats that you'd find from Gods of PvP or MetaBattle.

Basically, a condition mirage might kill you in 6.5 seconds if you stand still eat every attack and don't cleanse. Multiple power builds can kill you in under 2 seconds. The idea that any condition build is bursting you faster than any power build is literally just in your head and does not play out when damage numbers are properly calculated.

Jokes aside, whenever i face a condi mirage in full trailblazer, as i mainly play WvW, the conditions never end no matter how much i cleanse, i can have permanently pulsing cleanse with antitoxin runes and it still doesn't end and you can die in 3 seconds to a build with 3,500 armor if you have a regular amount of cleanse, the conditions never, ever stop unlike other builds which run out of resources or have to use cd's.

And if you tell me ThIs Is ThE pVp FoRuM, i just wanted to make a joke lol, as mirage has never felt not ridiculous imo.

EngineerEngineer Rifle Auto Attack: 1479

Mesmer

• Condition Mirage Staff No Clones with bounces: 846 (For bounces to occur and for the mesmer to get the 2x hit bonus assume 400 range or less. Safe to assume ~425 without bounces)
• Condition Mirage Staff 3 Clones no mesmer with bounces: 1202
• Condition Mirage Staff 3 Clones with bounces: 1814 (I'm not sure how, but despite the mesmer doing about 800 dps and the clones doing about 1200 dps, which logically assumes the total should be 2000 dps, 200 dps goes missing some how)
• Condition Mirage Pistol 4 in to Staff 3 Clones Ambush Spam: 2465

To some degree, no matter what if you are fighting a condition build and you are taking attacks there will be conditions. Because damage is an unlimited resource. There's no mana or energy system. The way power damage attacks are unlimited, condition damage attacks are also unlimited. A power engineer will do 1400 dps just auto attacking you with rifle, a condition mirage with staff and 3 clones will 1,1,1,1, you for 1800 dps.

Now there are some answers. For starters if you get poked by a staff auto it might do 100 power damage 700 bleeding over 7 seconds, and yeah you are conditioned but there's little reason to actually be afraid of that. Just because you see one bleed stack pop up on your bar isn't reason to be afraid of ENDLESS CONDITIONS. Now what you do want to avoid is being 1. Surrounded by clones and 2. Letting the mesmer and the clones freely cast on you.

One of the things that makes staff mesmer in general a potent 1v1 spec isn't that it's a 1200 range build, in fact it sucks at such long ranges because you can literally circle strafe around the projectiles. What makes it strong is that it's a "Just out of melee range" weapon. It wants to bait you with trying and failing to engage it in melee. With Phase Retreat you have the perfect tool for getting 400 units away from an aggressive target, and when you're at that range both yours and your clone's staff autos will bounce off your enemy towards the nearest friendly target and then back again to the enemy for 2x damage and buffs to the ally. In this case it is usually the mesmer itself. Staff is kind of self explanatory and intuitive from the mesmer's perspective. You want to be standing on one end of the Chaos storm while your opponent is at the opposite end of the chaos storm and you have three clones all fairly close auto attacking for condition damage and you're close enough to get the 2x damage bonus from the bounces while your opponent is suffering from weakness and you're getting aegis and protection to make the trading of blows a clear winning situation for the mesmer.

The absolute worst case scenario is what I call the Staff Mesmer Square of Death where you're in the center of the node and around the node in four corners is a mesmer and one of his clones.

Your goal is to not let this happen. And should this happen it's probably time to hard disengage and rethink and approach the fight differently.

You basically want any an all attacks you land to try and cleave a clone down. Remember, on staff clones are more than 50% of their sustained DPS output. This means if you Whirlwind Attack or Arcing Slice as a Warrior you want to position your attack in a way to both hit the mesmer and as many clones as possible. If you're on an engineer or holosmith you want your Jump Shots and Photon Forge cleave to try and hit as many clones as possible. Ect Ect. You want to stay in their face and outside of chaos storm. If they're failing to properly kite they can't trade blows with basically any melee weapon set and thus will get rushed down.

If you can't avoid this, staff mesmer does not appreciate truly long range combat. Staff autos are extremely slow for projectiles and they have fairly poor tracking. The staff ambush in particular can be strafed at almost any range except maybe point blank. Circle strafing alone will allow you to consistently avoid Chaos Vortex, from the mesmer and it's clones. You don't need to even dodge it. And the phantasm has extremely poor damage and is really only good for clone generation and vulnerability stacking It's not even worth dodging to be quite honest. At 600+ range against the mesmer and the clones pretty much every ranged build can trade blows and win without the bonus bouncing damage from staff. So you can employ a long range strategy where you strafe around the mesmer and avoid a lot of projectiles just by outrunning them past their 1200 range as they slowly try to home in on you.

Now when a mesmer is on Scepter+Pistol, the most popular off set there is an entirely different situation. Scepter clones are significantly lower DPS than Staff ones;

• Condition Mirage Scepter 3 clones: 984
• Condition Mirage Scepter 3 clones with ambush spam: 1164 (Obviously some variability due to confusion)

BUT the Pistol OH skills are exceptionally deadly. Most mesmers will soften you up with staff skills and kiting and then go in for the kill with Pistol 5 > Pistol 4 > Scepter 3 combo+Dodge for Clone Ambush. This is the time when you REALLY want to use whatever emergency defensive skills are at your disposal, stunbreaks especially. You want your Shield Block up for warrior, you want your Elixir S on Engineer the second you see the Pistol Phantasm, your Obsidian Flesh on Weaver, ect, ect.

Hope this helps.

[Shao.7236]

@mortrialus.3062

Just want to point out that I often find myself with 30 stacks of bleeding against a mesmer and it's true no matter that it shouldn't be a time to panic when it happens, the best way to deal with is wait out the conditions then clean the whole thing at once effectively

It takes about 4 ticks to 20 bleeding to deal the equivalent of a 8k burst, that's plenty time to decide when to cleanse.

Same thing with Torment, staying still helps a great deal, Poison doesn't deal much like Bleeding and well Confusion is self explanatory.

The incredible stacking of all conditions at once but burning is quite harmless compared to burning alone. To share some insight, the best way to play as core Revenant with Jalis (Since Shiro is pretty straight forward with RS) is simply to stand still with stab, hammers out and wait the right opportunity to use the massive cleanse, acknowledging that you get a great deal of CD's on your target after their burst which is all and why damage mitigation exists but often overlooked compared evading.

In a more simple view, power is reactive while conditions are pro-active.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Shao.7236 Most peeps see 30 bleed and start yelling OP.but reality is that those 30 stacks will do propably about 15k dmg over the course of its duration, is that really all that much?Its nice to know some people dont panic and think rationally, expecially since bleeds take a while to deal its damage.@mortrialus.3062staff damage variation comes from couple things.1 staff applies might on bounces, more clones and might applied gets rng.2 clones attack slower then the tooltip says + the bleed on crit trait ensures big variation, they can not crit and do 400 or crit and do 900. rng rng rng.3 the more condi dps you have, the more condi damage gets wasted when enemy dies. slightly more damage gets lost when you apply condition fast.

[saerni.2584]

@Shao.7236

Burn has been an interesting condi since the update a while back. It was basically the burst condition outside of what confusion eventually became as a conditional burst condi. But the durations were always on the high side for a burst condition in part because burn durations were boosted so much.

Most other conditions should have their durations increased (even post patch) to actually make condition damage ramping up possible. But burn is one case where lower durations may be justified even after nerfing the stacks involved somewhat.

[Shao.7236]

@saerni.2584 said:@Shao.7236

Burn has been an interesting condi since the update a while back. It was basically the burst condition outside of what confusion eventually became as a conditional burst condi. But the durations were always on the high side for a burst condition in part because burn durations were boosted so much.

Most other conditions should have their durations increased (even post patch) to actually make condition damage ramping up possible. But burn is one case where lower durations may be justified even after nerfing the stacks involved somewhat.

I think the conditions are fine now, given Wizard is the new Deadshot and Grieving the Vipers so on.