[Feedback] New Drakkar Fight

[aandiarie.7195]

Also at the end of the event that finally succeeded, I ressed some people and right when I was about to loot the chests they disappeared. That was not cool at all.

[Bassdeff.1895]

@aandiarie.7195 said:Also at the end of the event that finally succeeded, I ressed some people and right when I was about to loot the chests they disappeared. That was not cool at all.

Rule #1: Always loot first!

[Khisanth.2948]

@"Friday.7864" said:I'm afraid this meta lasts way too long.Combine that with a decent chance to fail and people will think thrice if they're willing to risk half an hour for zero returns.

You don't have to risk half an hour. You can tell after 5 minutes into the fight. The timer starts at 30 minutes but several minutes will get wasted by Jhavi's dialog, clearing the mobs for the room transition and the champions. For a simple rule of thumb we can just go with a 25 minute time limit for the fight. This means the group DPS needs to be 4% per minute or higher.

This translates to "HP needs to be under 80% by the 23 minutes remaining mark"

@"Gehenna.3625" said:One of the things I never understood in this game for example is the huge impact of which weapons you choose. So for flavour purposes I may want to play a staff and scepter/focus on my necro but then it would mean that that will destroy my dps output, especially in combination with the spec choices. And a lot of it is micromanaging buffs/boons and durations in 1.x second durations and such. That just seems such a crazy approach for a game that is otherwise so casual oriented and then punishes people for caring about flavour and punishing other players by association in groups.

Unfortunately there are people who are performing significantly worse than simply missing all those things you mentioned. They could stand there autoattacking with any ranged weapon and spamming their jump key and it would be a great improvement(at least they won't be dying as much and there won't be as much damage wasted ressing them).

The difference in DPS output is also too large between such players and "pro" players. I can get that being a good player should result in a better output but the range is so big in this game and it caters to a minority of players so it's never gonna get better like this.

That damage difference between players doesn't really matter. What does matter is the expected DPS the devs have set for it and the difference between that setting and average player DPS.

@"blp.3489" said:Some things I have encountered/noticed:

• Yesterday after the pvp following a failed Drakkar I was left "in-combat" and therefore not able to mount to leave or to waypoint, I had to logout in order to get out of combat, and I didn't attack anyone, I just res'ed a few people. There's that 8 minute condition that stops you from entering gates, but even after that expired I was still "in-combat". It was the second time that happened to me

being stuck in combat after a fail is normal for this event

I suspect it is because ANet forgot to remove/despawn the prop that is Drakkar

• I have never been able to open the big sphere thing that appears with the rewards, is there a condition you have to fulfill for that?

It gets autolooted if you have the autoloot mastery.

• With the green circles/dropping orbs, does it make any difference how many people go in the circle or is one enough? I.e. should I go to the circle if there is already at least one player there?

You also gain a buff that increases your damage output so it is worth going as long as there are no other big disadvantages to do so. At the very minimum that means you have to be using ranged attacks so you can continue attacking while getting the buff.

@aandiarie.7195 said:Also at the end of the event that finally succeeded, I ressed some people and right when I was about to loot the chests they disappeared. That was not cool at all.

The chests remain around for a long time after the event ... if you are referring to the icy looking one you probably already autolooted it.

[Eramonster.2718]

With the green circles/dropping orbs, does it make any difference how many people go in the circle or is one enough? I.e. should I go to the circle if there is already at least one player there?One player standing on it will be enough to prevent the shockwave. Will need further clarifications regarding the "buff" gained for doing greens though. Log shows no significant increase in damage, but maps that does the mechanic does seems to have better success rates.

Casual =/= Lazy

[Dawdler.8521]

Ha, I was on my first failed drakkar yesterday, by random. Just spawned in on top of the escort.

The reason it ultimately failed with drakkar at like... 6% hp?

90% of the kitten people walked through the first gate. It took AGES to kill that champion. 3 minutes? Definetly more. It sure felt like an eternity of nothing happening while standing outside. It must have scaled up something fierce. The other 2 champs we took down with... less than 10 people... in less than a minute. The champs absolutely melted. I was on boneskinner, I think he dropped 3-4% hp a second.

We would have easily killed drakkar if people hadnt scurried through that first gate.

Then it didnt help that 40% of the group died on the last couple of foot stomps because apparently when its so close to either win or loose you're meant to forget about dodge, heals, dps and just general brain activity.

[Khisanth.2948]

@"Eramonster.2718" said:

With the green circles/dropping orbs, does it make any difference how many people go in the circle or is one enough? I.e. should I go to the circle if there is already at least one player there?One player standing on it will be enough to prevent the shockwave. Will need further clarifications regarding the "buff" gained for doing greens though. Log shows no significant increase in damage, but maps that does the mechanic does seems to have better success rates.

Casual =/= Lazy

The tooltip on the buff says it increases damage but the damage increase is definitely not necessary. It feels like if a group has high damage you will barely get to see that attack anyway. Only saw it twice today. One of them happened right before a phase change so it was completely wasted. Second time it was almost dead so there might not have been enough time for the increase to have a significant impact to overall DPS.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@"Gehenna.3625" said:One of the things I never understood in this game for example is the huge impact of which weapons you choose. So for flavour purposes I may want to play a staff and scepter/focus on my necro but then it would mean that that will destroy my dps output, especially in combination with the spec choices. And a lot of it is micromanaging buffs/boons and durations in 1.x second durations and such. That just seems such a crazy approach for a game that is otherwise so casual oriented and then punishes people for caring about flavour and punishing other players by association in groups.

Unfortunately there are people who are performing significantly worse than simply missing all those things you mentioned. They could stand there autoattacking with any ranged weapon and spamming their jump key and it would be a great improvement(at least they won't be dying as much and there won't be as much damage wasted ressing them).Dunno, the main complaint seems to be people spamming auto-attack with a bow. So to call that an improvement, makes me curious what's worse than that. And I don't mean afk'ers cause that's an entirely different issue.

The difference in DPS output is also too large between such players and "pro" players. I can get that being a good player should result in a better output but the range is so big in this game and it caters to a minority of players so it's never gonna get better like this.

That damage difference between players doesn't really matter. What does matter is the expected DPS the devs have set for it and the difference between that setting and average player DPS.I don't really buy this. Particularly in raiding or structured group content in general, people will look for the maximum output for DPS. And I do think that how your character is built makes a big difference in that output. The issue with weapon choice is not just the difference in skills and output but also because some of them are more support oriented and others more DPS oriented. It already gets complicated starting with that when you're a more casual player, especially if you like your character to have certain weapons because you think it fits the character more. You can't blame a player for wanting to play a necro with staff that looks like scythe for example. It fits the flavour, but the staff choice may cost you. And this is where GW2 has crossed over into dangerous territory by setting visuals or fashion wars in opposition to character builds. Particularly in a more casual oriented game that's just weird to put it mildly.

And the average DPS will be higher if people have optimized DPS builds and this will make fights with a timer more successful. The point with Drakkar is not whether or not you can beat the fight but the timer. That's just a fact and ArenaNet will have to consider that. But my main point is that if they want to raise the average DPS in a casual oriented game, then the character building should be casual oriented as well. GW1 is a clear example of how to make a system that is easy to use and understand and still has a lot to it with maby variations that are viable. That's what GW2 doesn't have. When I go to metabattle or something like that and I check the builds there that are considered good builds, I just get depressed mostly because they generally are not builds I want to play. Mostly because it's often gimmicky and I have to use weapon sets I don't like. Yeah I care what my characters look like. It's part of the fun for me.

I get that people who raid and all underestimate themselves in how easy they find certain things and lowball the actual complexity that this game has in that respect, but that doesn't change the fact that for casual players it's not the same. I admit that my personal barrier in getting into it more deeply is because I find it uninteresting how it works here so I've joined the casual crowd whereas in other games I was a raid healer. But it also allows me to see things from a different perspective and I just really think that the way characters are built up and work in combat can be and often is daunting for a casual player who generally has no raid experience, nor wants to have any.

Personally I think that for a casual oriented game the build of characters should be a lot more straightforward and not about micro-managing things down to tenths of seconds and how many stacks of this buff and that boon or whatever...and it shouldn't put style at odds with performance. But that's exactly what GW2 does. It seems odd to me that they introduced strike missions as a step between regular PvE and raids, but for those missions you also need to delve into the character build system. And if that's already problematic, you won't get people on board for strike missions either. That's how I see that.

[Xion.5694]

The fight is a bit fresh, but the whole event is definitely too long to receive rewards. I suggest you increase your baseline rewards to compare with other activities you can do in these 30 minutes.

[Khisanth.2948]

...and I just found a new reason to hate this fight

the hitboxes causes some skills to have a no line of sight error =_=

WTF do you mean no line of sight? I am standing right next to it!

[Josiah.2967]

Still boring. Becoming unbearable. Shouldn't kill minions I can raid with.

[Khisanth.2948]

Minions shouldn't be an issue unless for some reason the 'less damage to companions unless they are directly targeted' thing needs to be flagged on a per mob basis and they forgot the flag on Drakkar but if that was the case it should be murdering ranger pets, mesmer illusions and engi turrets as well.

[hugo.4705]

Missing regularly Drakkar's foot with dh bow and more recently elem is really annoying. No line or sight or it doesn't hit.... in addition, less and less players doing it already... promising. I'm still disturbed by those kodans that stay in first room instead of comming at least, they should look busy like keeping minions from chasing us dunno... or fighting with us in the other room. As I raid above the three raven gates ae strangely scaled, first take long to kill, 2 others are fast. Argh, dunno, feel like something is missing in that fight. Maybe those three raven gates are useless, the champs could spawn in the main fight area... or affecting it: wolwerine seems to turn an area into forest as example, just see the shrines. I also miss the channeling on the three spirits to inflict the final hit.

[Rauderi.8706]

Really disappointed this is turning into another Dragon Stand. If you don't squad and excessively "Join squad in..." taxi, you're not winning it.

[TristisOris.2165]

completed all Drakkar achievements and i'll never get back here again. Beautiful location, shadows in the ice, effects. you tried. but not. and it's about all Bjora's events.

too long and boring fight without profit. 30min to get few trash items for 1-2s. Tank strike could be completed in this time by 4 random ppl. And you got tons of loot here.Any classic Tyria WB, which dying in 1min, give more drop than Drakkar.

00000001% chance for ascend? and what? it never drop anywhere else, so i anyway i must craft it.