Pve power dps herald buff hype?

[Jthug.9506]

Between the unknown changes to s2 chilling isolation, and the new destructive impulses and unsuspecting strikes, power dps herald is going to be a tad stronger. I know it was on the weak side before, but depending on the change to s2 we could be looking at a more than 6% increase. I for one am excited to try it, but also extremely salty at the loss of stunbreak on legend swap even in pve. Rip Empty Vessel, you will be missed!

[Jthug.9506]

Sorry for the double post, just tried to edit ??‍♂️

[Yasai.3549]

Depends.

It could be a DPS increase for like, bosses and stuff, but if they start spawning Adds which like to stack on the boss, it could be even worse than Precision Strike since yu can't just stand in the boss' hitbox and get all 3 strikes to hit only the boss.

[Jthug.9506]

True, it could be that s2 is actually nerfed against a single target when adds are present. But the other 6% gain looks to be locked in.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

I have yet to receive a reason why its just rev out of all kitten 9 classes ingame who has such stupid mechanic as "split damage"

[Buran.3796]

@"Jthug.9506" said:Between the unknown changes to s2 chilling isolation, and the new destructive impulses and unsuspecting strikes, power dps herald is going to be a tad stronger.

I don't think so; if all seems that the changes in "Feel My Wrath!" will push the PvE meta to stack 4 Guardians x squad. Also, condis probably will work better than power for Revenants in PvE because power skills oftenly splits the damage and some of the strongest cc attacks (which were mostly physical attacks) now will do 0 damage (not to mention that min-maxing power requires 3 stats and doing the same with condis requites 2, saving a lot of points to increase your sustain.

[Jthug.9506]

I don’t think that guardian stacking will be viable anymore. Yes condi renegade will probably remain superior to power herald. But power herald should be significantly improved from where it is now which iirc was about 33k, snowcrows hasn’t even listed it as a viable build, instead listing boon herald which is far weaker. I would guess that power herald will bench 36-37k on bosses with few or no adds. Also isn’t the cc skill nerf split between pve and pvp?

[Infusion.7149]

@Buran.3796 said:

@"Jthug.9506" said:Between the unknown changes to s2 chilling isolation, and the new destructive impulses and unsuspecting strikes, power dps herald is going to be a tad stronger.

I don't think so; if all seems that the changes in "Feel My Wrath!" will push the PvE meta to stack 4 Guardians x squad. Also, condis probably will work better than power for Revenants in PvE because power skills oftenly splits the damage and some of the strongest cc attacks (which were mostly physical attacks) now will do 0 damage (not to mention that min-maxing power requires 3 stats and doing the same with condis requites 2, saving a lot of points to increase your sustain.

Keep in mind any PVP/WvW changes to CC damage are not all happening in PVE.

As the title reads "PVE" , I would make sure you check on which are actually going to affect PVE, i.e. Global changes.

See https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96747/balance-patch-preview-globalFor example: Phase Traversal: This skill no longer increases damage for your next few attacks. Damage increased in PvE only by 100%.

Minor trait: Destructive Impulses (NEW): Outgoing damage is increased by 5% for each currently equipped weapon.Unsuspecting Strikes (NEW): Outgoing damage is increased when attacking a foe above 80% health. This damage increase is 25% in PvENotoriety: This trait no longer grants bonus might when using Legendary Assassin skills. <--- this affects might generation only

[Jthug.9506]

Also of note the corruption rework is going to nerf torment damage by 10%, but also grant additional outgoing torment stacks on legend swap. Still 10% is a pretty large loss and will likely not be made up for by the additional stacks. However there will also be a flat 120 condition damage added so maybe overall a buff?

[draxynnic.3719]

@Jthug.9506 said:Also of note the corruption rework is going to nerf torment damage by 10%, but also grant additional outgoing torment stacks on legend swap. Still 10% is a pretty large loss and will likely not be made up for by the additional stacks. However there will also be a flat 120 condition damage added so maybe overall a buff?

There's also the matter of losing Rampant Vex, which also means the loss of some Torment stacks. Whether the Torment on legend swap will make up for that is a bit of an unknown, but it's possible that the number of stacks that a revenant can keep on an enemy will actually decrease.

[Yasai.3549]

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Jthug.9506 said:

There's also the matter of losing Rampant Vex, which also means the loss of some Torment stacks. Whether the Torment on legend swap will make up for that is a bit of an unknown, but it's possible that the number of stacks that a revenant can keep on an enemy will actually decrease.

I think it will allow yu to still apply Torment well, but the uptime is the thing which is gonna be gone.Yu can't just camp Legends if yu wanna keep proccing the Torment on swap.

This can be further upgraded with the new Diabolic Inferno which inflicts more Torment and Burning on swapping.

But I think it's a good thing that players don't have to build with Rampant Vex in mind, so they can focus their stats on pure Condition Damage and Expertise instead of Crit for Rampant Vex. (even though Brutal Momentum will allow yu to get high critical chance as long as yu have full endurance)

What people are gonna camp instead is the weapon set, Mace and Axe, more specifically, Mace Autos and Mace 2.

[draxynnic.3719]

Kinda depends on just how much the new traits apply - ArenaNet hasn't given us any actual numbers, after all. Removing dependence on critical hits does open up some space in builds in theory, but in practice I think Viper's will still be the gold standard for condi DPS in PvE - I think the only set that gives Expertise and Condition Damage without also giving Precision is Trailblazer's, and for the DPS role power and precision is still more valuable than toughness and vitality. If we get a CD/Power/Expertise set, maybe, but even then I'm not sure people wouldn't just default to Viper's anyway.

But yeah, the changes are definitely going to make the lack of condition alternatives more stark, especially for heralds and core revs. Rampant Vex and Abyssal Chill meant that sword became a quasi-hybrid with traits, but most of that interaction will be lost.

[ArthurDent.9538]

So here's what changes:

Lose ~9% from Vicious Lacerations removalLose Focused Siphoning which is about 200 damage per hit which is somewhere in the ballpark of 1k dps or roughly 3% dps and a fairly large amount of self sustain which aids significantly in maintaining scholar rune and rising tide bonus's.Lose stunbreak on legend swap which doesn't affect golem dps but can be very useful for maintaining dps in real encounters

Gain ~10% damage when in sword/sword and 5% when in staff from Destructive ImpulseGain ~5% (25% more damage for ~20% of the fight) from unsuspecting strikes

So net gain of about 3% against golem with significant efficiency lost in real fights. Best current benchmark dps I know of is 31.6k which goes to about 32.5k still garbage tier.

New sword 2 unless the damage gets boosted up a fair amount is going to be significant net nerf in practice with significantly reduced range and inability to get full single target damage when adds are around, but at least not affected by reflects anymore.

[lunaeclipse.6843]

It's a welcome buff to power renegades especially in PvE, who can actually burst. That said, I kind of wish the new unsuspecting strikes trait worked differently. For pvE at least, traits that literally do something at the first of the fight then never occur again just dont sit well with me. The way the devastation line works now too leaves us in a weird slump in the middle of a fight were our first 20% is super buffed, the next 30% has nothing, and last 50% gets buffed again. I would rather see this new trait increase damage by 10-15% while flanking or something.

[Jthug.9506]

@ArthurDent.9538 said:So here's what changes:

Lose ~9% from Vicious Lacerations removalLose Focused Siphoning which is about 200 damage per hit which is somewhere in the ballpark of 1k dps or roughly 3% dps and a fairly large amount of self sustain which aids significantly in maintaining scholar rune and rising tide bonus's.Lose stunbreak on legend swap which doesn't affect golem dps but can be very useful for maintaining dps in real encounters

Gain ~10% damage when in sword/sword and 5% when in staff from Destructive ImpulseGain ~5% (25% more damage for ~20% of the fight) from unsuspecting strikes

So net gain of about 3% against golem with significant efficiency lost in real fights. Best current benchmark dps I know of is 31.6k which goes to about 32.5k still garbage tier.

New sword 2 unless the damage gets boosted up a fair amount is going to be significant net nerf in practice with significantly reduced range and inability to get full single target damage when adds are around, but at least not affected by reflects anymore.

I hadn’t considered the loss of focused siphoning, although I question if it really amounted to 3%.

I know I personally was able to get it to bench around 33k (scholar, spotter) but that’s only by abusing a macro to pop all 5 upkeep skills in glint and then immediately using burst of strength and activating the f2 before s5-s4. So kinda cheating. Of course that was before IR got the nerf bat.

I also feel you on the loss of empty vessel, it’s going to suck, especially for power herald where you will seldom have the energy available to use a stunbreak skill.

Here’s hoping the new S2 is turbocharged!

[ArthurDent.9538]

@Jthug.9506 said:

@"ArthurDent.9538" said:So here's what changes:

Lose ~9% from Vicious Lacerations removalLose Focused Siphoning which is about 200 damage per hit which is somewhere in the ballpark of 1k dps or roughly 3% dps and a fairly large amount of self sustain which aids significantly in maintaining scholar rune and rising tide bonus's.Lose stunbreak on legend swap which doesn't affect golem dps but can be very useful for maintaining dps in real encounters

Gain ~10% damage when in sword/sword and 5% when in staff from Destructive ImpulseGain ~5% (25% more damage for ~20% of the fight) from unsuspecting strikes

So net gain of about 3% against golem with significant efficiency lost in real fights. Best current benchmark dps I know of is 31.6k which goes to about 32.5k still garbage tier.

New sword 2 unless the damage gets boosted up a fair amount is going to be significant net nerf in practice with significantly reduced range and inability to get full single target damage when adds are around, but at least not affected by reflects anymore.

I hadn’t considered the loss of focused siphoning, although I question if it really amounted to 3%.

I know I personally was able to get it to bench around 33k (scholar, spotter) but that’s only by abusing a macro to pop all 5 upkeep skills in glint and then immediately using burst of strength and activating the f2 before s5-s4. So kinda cheating. Of course that was before IR got the nerf bat.

I also feel you on the loss of empty vessel, it’s going to suck, especially for power herald where you will seldom have the energy available to use a stunbreak skill.

Here’s hoping the new S2 is turbocharged!

The 3% estimate is based on https://snowcrows.com/raids/guides/revenant/renegade/alacrity/ in the soulcleave summit section which lists the hits per second for a bunch of common builds. It doesn't include power herald however i don't think it is unreasonable to say it is at least average or even above average considering how many extra hits impossible odds generates. At an average 5 hits per second and 200 damage per hit we get 1k damage which is close to 3%.

[Jthug.9506]

Can confirm. Took a look at arc personal stats from a recent bats benchmark video. The resolution was bad, but i could just make out that focused siphoning did 2.9%.

Well dang, hopefully someday revenant power dps will get brought in line with other good options, but it looks like it won’t be this patch.

[Zaret.1450]

We still have the new batle scars mechanic that takes the place of siphon .I would advise waiting till the actual patch and wait for buids to be made , after that we can ask for buffs or nerfs if needed

[Jthug.9506]

Fair enough, but because battle scars competes directly with raw % damage traits, I don’t hold out much hope that it will be relevant to pve dps buildcraft.

[Jthug.9506]

@zaswer.5246 said:We still have the new batle scars mechanic that takes the place of siphon .I would advise waiting till the actual patch and wait for buids to be made , after that we can ask for buffs or nerfs if needed

Actually it’s just possible that the other top tier power dps builds may be nerfed down to or nearer to our level as a result of the upcoming changes, I’m sure comparative benchmarks will be available within a few weeks.

[Yasai.3549]

@"Jthug.9506" said:Fair enough, but because battle scars competes directly with raw % damage traits, I don’t hold out much hope that it will be relevant to pve dps buildcraft.

If the new Unsuspecting Strikes can make a big enough difference that yu could indeed burn through 20% of the encounter's health in record time, yur gonna be looking at alot of Power Rev dps running it hand in hand with Swift Termination as well as other Professions who has their respective "Target below 50% HP" damage traits.

If yu can push the encounter nearer to 50% faster, these traits kick in faster and result in a faster clear altogether.

[lunaeclipse.6843]

@"Yasai.3549" said:If the new Unsuspecting Strikes can make a big enough difference that yu could indeed burn through 20% of the encounter's health in record time, yur gonna be looking at alot of Power Rev dps running it hand in hand with Swift Termination as well as other Professions who has their respective "Target below 50% HP" damage traits.

If yu can push the encounter nearer to 50% faster, these traits kick in faster and result in a faster clear altogether.

This is what Im thinking honestly, especialy on encounter with multiple healthbars (ie conjured amalgamate). If your can burst through that first 20% and have your cooldowns come back as you reach 50% (or less) it'll greatly exaggerate the dps gain from the new trait. But its important to note that something like this can not be seen in effect on a benchmark golem.