Balance Update Update - PvP

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Odik.4587 said:What radius 240? Thats alrdy 240 according to wiki.

We may need to take a look at that then. It feels like 360. I'll double check today. If it is actually bigger than intended, that should be fixed.

This pretty much combine necromancers utilities CPC and well of darkness. 30/35s cd. CPC is not exact the same but you get the point, i guess? So its like ahead of any of these utilities and its pretty much 2 in 1 for super low cd. Suggestion below that would be taking parts of it but not too strong at once.I would give it 6s duration, ~180 radius, 40-45s cd, pulse blind once per 2 seconds.

40 seconds CD is what I was intending.

Either shave the blind pulse or the AOE. You cannot have both. The first opens it to bruteforcing by melee, the second opens it to AOE or moves with a range outside of the circle.

@Odik.4587 said:Lets start with that smokescreen alrdy lasts 9 seconds and blind 9 times. Bug?Feature? Anet?

I'll double check that. If its bugged a big fix alone may be sufficient.

[storm.3120]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"Odik.4587" said:What radius 240? Thats alrdy 240 according to wiki.

We may need to take a look at that then. It feels like 360. I'll double check today. If it is actually bigger than intended, that should be fixed.

This pretty much combine necromancers utilities CPC and well of darkness. 30/35s cd. CPC is not exact the same but you get the point, i guess? So its like ahead of any of these utilities and its pretty much 2 in 1 for super low cd. Suggestion below that would be taking parts of it but not too strong at once.I would give it 6s duration, ~180 radius, 40-45s cd, pulse blind once per 2 seconds.

40 seconds CD is what I was intending.

Either shave the blind pulse or the AOE. You cannot have both. The first opens it to bruteforcing by melee, the second opens it to AOE or moves with a range outside of the circle.Its not up to you to decide what I can have or not. /shrugCurrently SS rivals (even after patch hitting 45s cd lmao) 2 necromancers utilities at once and lasts nearly twice as blind field and merely 45s cd compared to TWO utilities 30/35s cd. (how many times should I repeat it so you can recognize it?)"Anet must decide what this skill is supposed to do. Is it a projectile block-for-stealth utility - remove pulsing blind entirely . Want it to be melee focused blind pulsing field - remove projectile blocking. And adjust its duration and cooldown accordingly" - proposal of my friend and I agree with it too.If you want to keep all this overloaded effects at once = it should be reduced in efficiency.If this goes through on 45s cd in the current form it still would be miles ahead of "well of darkness" or "CPC" at everything. It shouldnt be thaaaaaaat overloaded.P.S if its really bigger/lasts longer than intended... very nice of Anet... and we have to figure it out for them ? Is it so hard to give a skill proper radius and duration that match its description ... ?P.S.S- Actually thats lasts about 8 seconds while pulsing 9 blinds... ?

[Idhayan Thomas.2697]

any changes to ranger spirits?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"Odik.4587" said:Its not up to you to decide what I can have or not. /shrug

That was directed at regarding what should be opened to allow clear counter-play without invalidating the skill, not telling you specifically what you can and cannot have. That's up to the devs before anything else of course.

Currently SS rivals (even after patch hitting 45s cd lmao) 2 necromancers utilities at once and lasts nearly twice as blind field and merely 45s cd compared to TWO utilities 30/35s cd. (how many times should I repeat it so you can recognize it?)

Necromancer is not thief. It has a higher health pool and some of its traits require them to be damaged so they can get value out of them. I'm not recognizing it because I don't think it's a sound argument. What matters is how the skill fills a need the class it applies to has, and whether that skill has an avenue to counter it that is reasonably accessible. Whether or not it has the same CD as other skills on other classes is irrelevant. I haven't been complaining about ranger gs blocks all this time despite playing zerker with a shield ofhand.

Also, necromancer has been underpowered for an incredibly long time.

"Anet must decide what this skill is supposed to do. Is it a projectile block-for-stealth utility - remove pulsing blind entirely . Want it to be melee focused blind pulsing field - remove projectile blocking. And adjust its duration and cooldown accordingly" - proposal of my friend and I agree with it too.If you want to keep all this overloaded effects at once = it should be reduced in efficiency.

If either one of the above effects gets removed, the cooldown should be reduced to 25 seconds again.If not, 45 seconds cd and a 2 second blind is sufficient.

P.S if its really bigger than intended and lasts longer then intended... very nice of Anet... and we have to figure it out for them ? Is it so hard to give a skill proper radius and duration that match its description ... ?

I'll look into that this evening. It should be at least 240 to prevent skills like lightning whip from actively ignoring it.

[storm.3120]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:Necromancer is not thief. It has a higher health pool and some of its traits require them to be damaged so they can get value out of them. I'm not recognizing it because I don't think it's a sound argument.Ok, necromancer dont have acess to all evades in the world and stealth that thief has. But hey I'm a thief therefore my utilities should be overloaded and be like 2 time more powerful than yours just ...because...?I haven't been complaining about ranger gs blocks all this time despite playing zerker with a shield ofhand.I would be doing so, there is no reason for ranger to be a super ninja blocking all melee and projectiles like its Neo from the Matrix ... especially with a greatsword on a ridiculously low cooldown, just because its ranger it should be a shield stance merged into full counter? Are you serious ?Also, necromancer has been underpowered for an incredibly long time.^ Highest quality BS right here.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"Odik.4587" said:

Ok, necromancer dont have acess to all evades in the world and stealth that thief has. But hey I'm a thief therefore my utilities should be overloaded and be like 2 time more powerful than yours just ...because...?

Almost all of thief evades and their damage out of stealth has been nerfed significantly. Their vigor uptime is taking a 50% hit. Don't ignore that and attempt to use the current state of thief as a balancing metric for how the smokescreen utility effects should be adjusted. They no longer have "all the evades in the world. Backstab coefficients are way down, and leeching damage through SA line is down too.

I would be doing so, there is no reason for ranger to be a super ninja blocking all melee and projectiles like its Neo from the Matrix ... especially with a greatsword on a ridiculously low cooldown, just because its ranger it should be a shield stance merged into full counter? Are you serious ?

What?That's beside the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make was that defensive skills can have different cooldowns on different classes depending on the need. whether the need is met in excess or not is up for debate, but that situation -can- happen, and using "but this class -that has a different rotation:- has this cooldown, so you should have that cooldown too" as an argument doesn't fly.

Also, necromancer has been underpowered for an incredibly long time.^ Highest quality BS right here.

Nah. When scourge was overperforming, it got balanced aggressively. Reaper got balanced aggressively. Core necro had no mechanical defense in shroud vs incoming damage vs condi -anything- until death magic got reworked, and even then the benefit given to it was tenuous.They've been having it rough for a while. Most classes with mobility dance circles around them.

[Impling.4170]

Smokescreen definitely needs tuning down, but long cooldown utility skills are not very fun to play with. I'd like to see the skill brought down in the scope of its utility while still remaining on a lower cooldown. Something like how Ring of Fire and Spectral Ring work:

Ring of Smoke-25s CD, 1/2s cast time (same as before)-5-6s duration (down 1-2s).-Retains its AoE smoke field component.-Retains its projectile destruction component.-Blinds foes within the radius upon creation, and then blinds foes passing through the ring, 1s ICD (unblockable, unevadable). Perhaps increase the blind duration to 2s.-Middle of the ring is still a smoke field, but does NOT pulse blind.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Mogwai.4015 said:Smokescreen definitely needs tuning down, but long cooldown utility skills are not very fun to play with. I'd like to see the skill brought down in the scope of its utility while still remaining on a lower cooldown. Something like how Ring of Fire and Spectral Ring work:

Ring of Smoke-25s CD, 1/2s cast time (same as before)-5-6s duration (down 1-2s).-Retains its AoE smoke field component.-Retains its projectile destruction component.-Blinds foes within the radius upon creation, and then blinds foes passing through the ring, 1s ICD (unblockable, unevadable). Perhaps increase the blind duration to 2s.-Middle of the ring is still a smoke field, but does NOT pulse blind.

Fine~

[storm.3120]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"Odik.4587" said:

Ok, necromancer dont have acess to all evades in the world and stealth that thief has. But hey I'm a thief therefore my utilities should be overloaded and be like 2 time more powerful than yours just ...because...?

Almost all of thief evades and their damage out of stealth has been nerfed significantly. Their vigor uptime is taking a 50% hit. Don't ignore that and attempt to use the current state of thief as a balancing metric for how the smokescreen utility effects should be adjusted. They no longer have "all the evades in the world. Backstab coefficients are way down, and leeching damage through SA line is down too.50% from 40s of perma vigor to 20s of perma vigor, what a big difference ! You ignre that every class getting damage nerfs, not only thief . Lets play a victim some more?

I would be doing so, there is no reason for ranger to be a super ninja blocking all melee and projectiles like its Neo from the Matrix ... especially with a greatsword on a ridiculously low cooldown, just because its ranger it should be a shield stance merged into full counter? Are you serious ?

What?That's beside the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make was that defensive skills can have different cooldowns on different classes depending on the need. whether the need is met in excess or not is up for debate, but that situation -can- happen, and using "but this class -that has a different rotation:- has this cooldown, so you should have that cooldown too" as an argument doesn't fly.X class having absolutely nonsense overloaded skills that does either twice as much as its closest counterpart while have nearly twice lower cd its fine. Different classes - different needs, kappa. Its somehow fine for everyone when its happen with their main. You (thief and all others) = smokescreen. Rangers (well, only SP making tragedy out of it) = GS4 block. Its all cool, its my main, dont touch it :joy:

Also, necromancer has been underpowered for an incredibly long time.^ Highest quality BS right here.

Nah. When scourge was overperforming, it got balanced aggressively. Reaper got balanced aggressively. Core necro had no mechanical defense in shroud vs incoming damage vs condi -anything- until death magic got reworked, and even then the benefit given to it was tenuous.They've been having it rough for a while. Most classes with mobility dance circles around them.And so far as I remember it always been played. From core till PoF. So much underperforming ! Poor underpowered necro class ruling wvw and pvp almost entire PoF existence until they gave scourge a chrono treatment.I'm done with you lad, I proposed a change in the way its not overloaded OP as its now, cba to deal with biased thieves, sry.Some addition: if after patch its still a problem - nuke it from the orbit, if not - leave it.

[Bladestrom.6425]

'Once any major wrinkles are ironed out, we’ll settle back into the faster cadence that we mentioned previously as we work toward improving balance across the board.'

The balance changes as so broad and far reaching it is going to cause major issues all over the place. However the acknowledgment of the need for a high cadence of patch releases is ultimately the answer to smoothing out of balance issues over time. This more than anything anet have commited to in the past gives pvp a bright future in my eyes, thank you anet.

wouldn't 2 weekly releases be awesome if anet could eventually get there, no stale analysis, quick reaction, gradual balance refinement, and a player base that can relax a bit knowing an issue wo nt sit for months if it's a priority.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"Odik.4587" said:50% from 40s of perma vigor to 20s of perma vigor, what a big difference !

perma vigor20 seconds?perma?????

You ignre that every class getting damage nerfs, not only thief . Lets play a victim some more?

Take...your own advice? Thief is the only class getting continuous nerf proposals despite getting almost all of their damage sources nuked, including from stealth. Less damaging thief out of stealth means more pressure on thief to escape/avoid retaliation because enemies can no longer be easily dispatched. Yet before the patch even gets out of the gate people are shrieking "nerf stealth nerf steal nerf evade nerf mobility", like oneshot backstab or perma evade is still 100% guaranteed to be a thing.

X class having absolutely nonsense overloaded skills that does either twice as much as its closest counterpart while have nearly twice lower cd its fine.

First of all, the CD is getting adjusted to have a higher cooldown than well of darkness , so that's wrong. Stop using the current state of the skill to justify additional nerf proposals. It's already getting changed. That's a strawman argument. I'm not arguing the current CD is fine. I'm arguing that the proposed changes are enough.Second, a blind field that destroys projectiles for one of the squishiest classes in the game is neither nonsense nor overloaded. Theres already a few avenues to counterplay it, and it does not obstruct point capture. All it does is make the thief slightly harder to kill for a short duration. With the proposed nerfs itll be even less frequent.

Third, you're comparing skills to skills again despite saying:

Different classes - different needs, kappa.

Yeah.

Its somehow fine for everyone when its happen with their main.

I main berserker. I am just aware of how thief gets foisted as this godmode class on forums when people actively bully it in game if they decide to spec for it, and can hardline advise against nerfs for classes I don't main if they're unjustified. It's telling that we're here arguing over a skill that lets thieves have 7 seconds of staying power without necessarily having to use stealth (though they have that option), and the general outrage is the same as if they had just slotted blinding power and gone about their day. Heaven forbid a thief get to contest a point, rite~

You (thief and all others) = smokescreen. Rangers (well, only SP making tragedy out of it) = GS4 block. Its all cool, its my main, dont touch it :joy:

See above.

And so far as I remember it always been played. From core till PoF. So much underperforming ! Poor underpowered necro class ruling wvw and pvp almost entire PoF existence until they gave scourge a chrono treatment.

I don't care about wvw. That's a different sphere. I care about PvP where it was already underpowered once Arenanet realized it shouldnt be able to condibomb with the same radius as a conquest node, then the "chrono treatment" made it even worse. Reaper has always had counterplay. Necro has always had counterplay.Compared to some of the other classes, like Soulbeast, Weaver, Firebrand and Spellbreaker, Scourge was actively balanced the most, followed by thief and mirage. however, unlike thief and mirage, scourge mains didnt find a way to mold their cheese into a different form.

I'm done with you lad, I proposed a change in the way its not overloaded OP as its now, cba to deal with biased thieves, sry.

See above. Lol, not a thief main but ok

Some addition: if after patch its still a problem - nuke it from the orbit, if not - leave it.'kay~

[Momekic.8603]

@Mogwai.4015 said:Smokescreen definitely needs tuning down, but long cooldown utility skills are not very fun to play with. I'd like to see the skill brought down in the scope of its utility while still remaining on a lower cooldown. Something like how Ring of Fire and Spectral Ring work:

Ring of Smoke-25s CD, 1/2s cast time (same as before)-5-6s duration (down 1-2s).-Retains its AoE smoke field component.-Retains its projectile destruction component.-Blinds foes within the radius upon creation, and then blinds foes passing through the ring, 1s ICD (unblockable, unevadable). Perhaps increase the blind duration to 2s.-Middle of the ring is still a smoke field, but does NOT pulse blind.

This is actually a well thought out solution to tone down Smokescreen.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"Odik.4587" said:P.S if its really bigger/lasts longer than intended... very nice of Anet...

Checked this, its not. Compared with choking gas its on par.

[bravan.3876]

Why is this suddenly unstuck?

[storm.3120]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"Odik.4587" said:50% from 40s of perma vigor to 20s of perma vigor, what a big difference !

perma vigor20 seconds?perma?????You ignre that every class getting damage nerfs, not only thief . Lets play a victim some more?Ok. Lets check how biased you are my friend.Almost all of thief evades and their damage out of stealth has been nerfed significantlyEveryone's damage+evade abilities took 50% damage nerfs. Most importantly VAULT was left alone to hit like a truck and keep its evasion. - Playing a victim like they singled out your poor thief.Their vigor uptime is taking a 50% hit. Don't ignore that and attempt to use the current state of thief as a balancing metricFeline Grace: Reduced vigor duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. The passive ONE SECOND INTERNAL COOLDOWN trait got nerfed out of all vigor sources.. when others have 3 on 10s cd(ofc its only mesmer, others are 5/10 for a reason/s).Was vigor-on-heal nerfed by 50%? Havent seen that. Vigor on steal was nerfed? Havent seen that too.So what you ignored the fact that thy would still have perma improved vigor just from acro minor alone and was like "50% VIGOR UPTIME NERF!1111"That nonsense about necro came from the scope of 1x1? I have a surprise for you, they werent taken for 1x1's. Think 10 times about it may be?I'll never respond to such "unbiased warrior main" ever agan :joy:P.S I have seen your comments on mirage having only 1 evade and you are pretty happy about it and think it should stay. Clearly unbiased opinion about something you dont hate with a passion :)

[ZDragon.3046]

Player hates class that counters their main class calls said skills out ragious (even if they will still lose to that class after the nerfs) while ignoring their own broken moments in the past or current meta.Reasonable player trys to talk with themPlayer who is not reasonable gets backed into a corner by "logic and reasoning"Unreasonable player is losing the argument and calles other player bais and says they dont know what they are talking about just like they do to everyone who does not agree with their view when they had no counter argument for reality.

YOU DONT KNOW MY PAIN MY DODGE IS GONE SO YOU NEED MORE NERFS OTHER WISE I WONT BE HAPPY.

slow clap

This is honestly just getting silly at this point.Whats done is done at this point the patch is likely days away no point in going back and forth now just let it happenAdapt or get erased and be salty till you learn to adapt.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"Odik.4587" said:Ok. Lets check how biased you are my friend.

Everyone's biased somehow. This is irrelevant. My point here is to prove smokescreen fair, not have strawman arguments about my character with you. People who read my posts are free to make whatever judgment they want about me, lol.

Everyone's damage+evade abilities took 50% damage nerfs. Most importantly VAULT was left alone to hit like a truck and keep its evasion. - Playing a victim like they singled out your poor thief.

I never argued the patch notes singled Thief out. I argued the community is singling thief out for additional nerfing in ways that seem intensely geared towards making it unviable.

I'll never respond to such "unbiased warrior main" ever agan :joy:

Oh look, goalpost shifting. This is going to get nowhere so let's agree to stop here indeed.

P.S I have seen your comments on mirage having only 1 evade and you are pretty happy about it and think it should stay. Clearly unbiased opinion about something you dont hate with a passion :)

You're getting difficult to understand, but:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:sigh.I want to be petty and I'll continue being petty later but, putting that aside:

But mirrors grant evade to mes, and some of their utilities outright create these. I think being forced to tag mirrors to cover the rest of their evade sounds suitable.

If it's too much though, at least try adding easier access to vigor to bridge the gap before going the emergency revert route.

You're wrong about that last part. As a zerker main, Mirages counter me like you guys think thief counters you (even though even that is up for debate.)Still here trying to get the class shipped in a way thats not-deleted while being not obnoxious.

No big though. We will see how everything looks in four days~

[saerni.2584]

Vault was nerfed by 19%.

• Vault: Reduced power coefficient from 2.25 to 1.82. WvW will now use the PvP initiative cost of 6

I mean it’s not like it won’t hit hard but...it kind of costs a lot of initiative and is pretty evadeable/blockable/interruptible.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@saerni.2584 said:Vault was nerfed by 19%.

• Vault: Reduced power coefficient from 2.25 to 1.82. WvW will now use the PvP initiative cost of 6

I mean it’s not like it won’t hit hard but...it kind of costs a lot of initiative and is pretty evadeable/blockable/interruptible.

But all that = remained left alone in a mesmer eyes just like how they're convinced clear on SUCCESSFULL dodge means they have infinite clears any time they want as a thief is ALWAYS evading when they dodge. Or how they can spam skills infinitely with their infinite resources that never run out lol.U can point out a 1000 counter measures to any give thief skill to them and they'll just let it roll over they're head and pretend it's not important than spout off all the things the skills counter while calling it broken with no counter play lolUr better of not even arguing with them and let them vent out their one sided bias anger whether they make sense or not lol.Bottom line is they want the class and more importantly the class that counters them unviable full stop, not like it's not obvious.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Everyone blames anet for nerfing skills/traits to the point their not chosen afterwards and complains about half of the skills/traits on every class being unviable yet the community is the first to ask for more nerfs before the original nerfs have even gone through with obvious intentions to make the slill/trait unviable lol it's like u complain about thing u cause lol. I gues it's also the teams fault for listening and actually implementing the changes.Smoke screen at 45 sec already have most thiefs moving on from the skill and still more want it nerfed harder so its thrown into the already large pit of unused skilks/traits and utilities. Why not see how it was at 35 than if cd needed increase run it at 40 and so on instead of just nuking it. Why?Cuz I don't like it delete it mentality that's spread throughout this community.I say to the team nerf it more and continue listening to these players, its ur game to ruin :)

[bravan.3876]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Everyone blames anet for nerfing skills/traits to the point their not chosen afterwards and complains about half of the skills/traits on every class being unviable yet the community is the first to ask for more nerfs before the original nerfs have even gone through with obvious intentions to make the slill/trait unviable lol it's like u complain about thing u cause lol. I gues it's also the teams fault for listening and actually implementing the changes.Smoke screen at 45 sec already have most thiefs moving on from the skill and still more want it nerfed harder so its thrown into the already large pit of unused skilks/traits and utilities. Why not see how it was at 35 than if cd needed increase run it at 40 and so on instead of just nuking it. Why?Cuz I don't like it delete it mentality that's spread throughout this community.I say to the team nerf it more and continue listening to these players, its ur game to ruin :)

Funny statement considering your posts about Soulbeast and Mirage. You don't like the delete mentality in this forum? Seems as long as it is not Thief or Warrior then deleting skills or even whole elites from the game is not your problem. Hypocrisies at its best ones again.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Everyone blames anet for nerfing skills/traits to the point their not chosen afterwards and complains about half of the skills/traits on every class being unviable yet the community is the first to ask for more nerfs before the original nerfs have even gone through with obvious intentions to make the slill/trait unviable lol it's like u complain about thing u cause lol. I gues it's also the teams fault for listening and actually implementing the changes.Smoke screen at 45 sec already have most thiefs moving on from the skill and still more want it nerfed harder so its thrown into the already large pit of unused skilks/traits and utilities. Why not see how it was at 35 than if cd needed increase run it at 40 and so on instead of just nuking it. Why?Cuz I don't like it delete it mentality that's spread throughout this community.I say to the team nerf it more and continue listening to these players, its ur game to ruin :)

Funny statement considering your posts about Soulbeast and Mirage. You don't like the delete mentality in this forum? Seems as long as it is not Thief or Warrior then deleting skills and whole elites from the game is not your problem. Hypocrisies at its best ones again.

Ummm cuz I think the one pet in combat is a fair trade off? And I have no issues with mirage it's how the players that play it conduct themselves on the forums that I have issues with. Every single thread that had to do with nerfing or improving a skill on any class other then theirs has them rallying in it asking for nerfs of why the skills etc is fine and doesn't need love even tho they don't even play or like the class, why? Is no one but mesmers allowed to post about improvements to their class? Are every class skill/traits and utilities fine except for mesmers? Their always the first to want another class gutted especially if it's a thief post and gets old.U can bring up my past post agreeing with some changes anets brought about and a few outliers here and there but 90% of my post are defending classes vs bias hyperbole. I dont make it a point to join every mesmer thread where their asking for improvements or in any type of discussion to simply tell the players their class is fine and op and needs nerfs like some others on here.Man vendetta's against classes are real and so rampant in this community.It's no real surprise by ur post pic alone I knew it be u bravan as ur only one of maybe 15 posters left even posting in pvp forums, definitely no surprise this games community is tanking so fast lmao.Unfortunately this community as small as it is drives it's own players away.For the record I doubt very many players actually think the mirage losing a dodge was called for but don't voice it cuz all the times they've seen mesmers players asking for gutting nerfs to their class so its hard to throw sympathy towards the mesmer players.Yeah if anet wanted to tone down mirages high evasiveness there are better ways that don't out right cripple the class but few will stand up to the change due to the fact it's usually a mesmer player that's first to ask for their class to be gutted.

[viquing.8254]

@ZDragon.3046 said:This is honestly just getting silly at this point.Whats done is done at this point the patch is likely days away no point in going back and forth now just let it happenAdapt or get erased and be salty till you learn to adapt.

Totally agree, adapt like players who whine on mesmer every patch (and who aren't salty at all), who end to -50% output gut and trait removal on the spec they want to easy win against.Seems spamming nerf thread on PvP forum work better than class representation.

[ZDragon.3046]

@viquing.8254 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:This is honestly just getting silly at this point.Whats done is done at this point the patch is likely days away no point in going back and forth now just let it happenAdapt or get erased and be salty till you learn to adapt.

Totally agree, adapt like players who whine on mesmer every patch (and who aren't salty at all), who end to -50% output gut and trait removal on the spec they want to easy win against.Seems spamming nerf thread on PvP forum work better than class representation.

I dont even care at this point despite the thief nerfs its still going hard counter mesmers and several other professions by a mile and it will take far more nerfs than this to undo that. Eventually people will realize they are being bais while calling others bais.

When non thief mains start calling out certain complainers (which is already happening) in large enough numbers the complainers will either stop ore cry harder but be ignored as they are out weighted by the other portions of the community who see it for what it really is. Hating 1 profession cause it hard counters what you like to play.

Again the patch is likely days away if you play a build that hard carries and you have not started to practice without the tools that are being either heavily nerfed or removed thats a personal problem. Ive been playing without foot in the grave and trying not to use doom while stunned etc. for a while now even in my off meta fun builds that actually did use/ abuse those things. IF you cant learn to adapt its no ones fault but your own. Im not going to demand someone else be nerfed more because im unahppy with some changes my build or main profession got while trying to compare apples to oranges to determine how much more someone else should be nerfed.

Learn to play without IH or only using 1 dodge or dont and just get erased.... Im tired of goign back and forth with unreasonable people who are are unhappy and point the finger at anyone who seems remotely happy with their main professions even if they are being nerfed. The number of post some obvious mesmer and ranger/soul beast players have made since the notes were released is insane.

Reality is most of the complaints at this point are people who are unhappy and dont want anyone else to be more happy than they are with other builds / professions and so they are demanding more nerfs against specific things.

[bravan.3876]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Everyone blames anet for nerfing skills/traits to the point their not chosen afterwards and complains about half of the skills/traits on every class being unviable yet the community is the first to ask for more nerfs before the original nerfs have even gone through with obvious intentions to make the slill/trait unviable lol it's like u complain about thing u cause lol. I gues it's also the teams fault for listening and actually implementing the changes.Smoke screen at 45 sec already have most thiefs moving on from the skill and still more want it nerfed harder so its thrown into the already large pit of unused skilks/traits and utilities. Why not see how it was at 35 than if cd needed increase run it at 40 and so on instead of just nuking it. Why?Cuz I don't like it delete it mentality that's spread throughout this community.I say to the team nerf it more and continue listening to these players, its ur game to ruin :)

Funny statement considering your posts about Soulbeast and Mirage. You don't like the delete mentality in this forum? Seems as long as it is not Thief or Warrior then deleting skills and whole elites from the game is not your problem. Hypocrisies at its best ones again.

Ummm cuz I think the one pet in combat is a fair trade off? And I have no issues with mirage it's how the players that play it conduct themselves on the forums that I have issues with. Every single thread that had to do with nerfing or improving a skill on any class other then theirs has them rallying in it asking for nerfs of why the skills etc is fine and doesn't need love even tho they don't even play or like the class, why? Is no one but mesmers allowed to post about improvements to their class? Are every class skill/traits and utilities fine except for mesmers? Their always the first to want another class gutted especially if it's a thief post and gets old.U can bring up my past post agreeing with some changes anets brought about and a few outliers here and there but 90% of my post are defending classes vs bias hyperbole. I dont make it a point to join every mesmer thread where their asking for improvements or in any type of discussion to simply tell the players their class is fine and op and needs nerfs like some others on here.Man vendetta's against classes are real and so rampant in this community.It's no real surprise by ur post pic alone I knew it be u bravan as ur only one of maybe 15 posters left even posting in pvp forums, definitely no surprise this games community is tanking so fast lmao.Unfortunately this community as small as it is drives it's own players away.For the record I doubt very many players actually think the mirage losing a dodge was called for but don't voice it cuz all the times they've seen mesmers players asking for gutting nerfs to their class so its hard to throw sympathy towards the mesmer players.Yeah if anet wanted to tone down mirages high evasiveness there are better ways that don't out right cripple the class but few will stand up to the change due to the fact it's usually a mesmer player that's first to ask for their class to be gutted.

Actually i see less Mesmer mains crying about other classes in forum and i see no other class getting so much unfair and biased nerf suggstions than Mesmer (Thief has same issue but on way lower lvl). Means i have no clue what triggers you.

Losing a pet on Soulbeast is literally deleting skills (something you here say you don't like as balance move in general, what i even would agree to) and in terms of Soulbeast deleting here means not only by making it not worth taking from too high cd, it is in fact deleting skills from the elite. This trade off then doesn't even solve the real broken issues like the pet revive from merging (what should not exist in the first place because it deletes the skill ceiling from the Ranger class of caring for the pet. Soulbeast gets less punished for pet misplays than other Ranger specs). This loss in skill ceiling doesn't get compensated by the deletion of one pet. Just as deleting pet swap as mechanical feature you have to manage as player will also not increase the skill ceiling or floor. Anyway the point is, you don't want the deletion of skills on some specs but vote for it on others. Either you want a balance that just brings stuff more in line to each other without making it unusable or deleted or not. How different you argue depending on what class you talk about is irritating and hypocrite.