Including Strike Mission Achievements as a Required Part of the Zone Meta

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Vayne.8563" said:I get why they added achievements to strike missions. That was never the question. Tell me what do you think that casuals get out of this?

A "casual" that finished the earlier challenging achievements to complete the story, or the meta, should have very little trouble with those easier Strike Missions. Especially considering how some of the achievements are simple participation rewards, you don't even have to beat the boss to get it. Even the harder ones start very very easy and some of their achievements are acquired during that easy time.

My biggest concern is some, like me and my wife, will force themselves to do it because they want the emote and then, it'll look like peoiple are doing strike missions when in reality they don't like them. Enough of that stuff loses players.

Like you finished Scruffy 2.0 and its associated achievements to get meta completion? I also mentioned earlier in the thread how some of the Strike Mission achievements are even achievable SOLO, or in a group with another person or two. You don't even need a complete squad to beat them. As someone who is in a large guild the simplest solution would be to run Strike Missions with Guild Missions, there is little difference between gathering up for a random bounty, and going to beat the Fraenir of Jormag (in fact some bounties have more mechanics than him), AND on the plus side you don't even have to find them, the portal is always available.

And some of them will have another reason not to like the game. Enough of those and people leave.

I can assure you the same is happening with the way the new Story instances are created. As tutorials for the expansion, you literally just watch them unfold instead of participating. Now if they brought the old type of story content back and not this snooze fest, then maybe they could remove the Strike Mission requirements too, to you know "stay consistent". For example, if the next "Fraenir of Jormag" we fight in the story is back to Scruffy 2.0 or Palawa Joko levels, I'm not sure that would be preferred though.

[Vayne.8563]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:I get why they added achievements to strike missions. That was never the question. Tell me what do you think that casuals get out of this?

A "casual" that finished the earlier challenging achievements to complete the story, or the meta, should have very little trouble with those easier Strike Missions. Especially considering how some of the achievements are simple participation rewards, you don't even have to beat the boss to get it. Even the harder ones start very very easy and some of their achievements are acquired during that easy time.

My biggest concern is some, like me and my wife, will force themselves to do it because they want the emote and then, it'll look like peoiple are doing strike missions when in reality they don't like them. Enough of that stuff loses players.

Like you finished Scruffy 2.0 and its associated achievements to get meta completion? I also mentioned earlier in the thread how some of the Strike Mission achievements are even achievable SOLO, or in a group with another person or two. You don't even need a complete squad to beat them. As someone who is in a large guild the simplest solution would be to run Strike Missions with Guild Missions, there is little difference between gathering up for a random bounty, and going to beat the Fraenir of Jormag (in fact some bounties have more mechanics than him), AND on the plus side you don't even have to find them, the portal is always available.

And some of them will have another reason not to like the game. Enough of those and people leave.

I can assure you the same is happening with the way the new Story instances are created. As tutorials for the expansion, you literally just watch them unfold instead of participating. Now if they brought the old type of story content back and not this snooze fest, then maybe they could remove the Strike Mission requirements too, to you know "stay consistent". For example, if the next "Fraenir of Jormag" we fight in the story is back to Scruffy 2.0 or Palawa Joko levels, I'm not sure that would be preferred though.

We'll see how the chips fall. Get back to me in six months. Yes I did the achievements with Scruffy 2.0 and enjoyed that a hell of a lot more than strike missions generally. Strike Missions to me are some of the worst content in the game, because I didn't buy a game to stand in an instance, fighting a boss I'd already fought in an open world. made deliberarly harder and artificially harder by not allowing the rezzing of dead people (which you couldn't do anyway because it's all just dancing). There's no disguising that as just a game. Move right. 25% he does this. Move left. Jump the wave. Get out of the circle. This is not the game I want to play period end of story. I know some people like it. But it's just an isolated world boss that isn't attached to anything, in a room that doesn't mean anything and I'm going through hoops to get something that frankly I don't want to get.

Maybe I'm wrong and this won't affect a lot of people, but I think it'll affect more people than you do. And only the future will tell. Right now it's affecting me, my wife, some of my gulidies that I play with regularly, some people that have bothered posting in this thread. When the cards are counted, probably months from now, we'll have our answer, based on how Anet moves forward.

[Ameepa.6793]

@"Vayne.8563" said:My biggest concern is some, like me and my wife, will force themselves to do it because they want the emote and then, it'll look like peoiple are doing strike missions when in reality they don't like them. Enough of that stuff loses players.

Indeed, I am kinda disappointed that you ended up "voting" it being a good thing to add strikes to meta since all they now see is that it was a success and they got new people doing them.

I'm gonna hold on to my "no" vote and leave the meta unfinished!

Often actions are better than just talk.

[Vinceman.4572]

I don't think Anet will call Strikes a success if they see that people are doing them once for the achievements and never set a foot into them again. Their metrics would clearly show that + your overall feedback are heavy indicators against such a theory.

[Ayrilana.1396]

I don’t think they intended strikes to be its own fully fledged mode on the same level as dungeons, fractals, and raids. People doing them over and over probably isn’t what they’re basing a “success” on since it’s not a good measure for what they’re trying to accomplish with them.

[Obtena.7952]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I don't really care what numbers you want to argue about or where you got them from or what your motives are.

If you really want to know I was getting more data to support Vayne's argument about the GW2E map completion data. And at the same time show how important GW2E numbers are, especially for this particular discussion where the players affected are a sub-category of the total, which is way better represented on GW2E.

But let's go back to the question about inconsistency, let me ask a question (and Vayne too since he started the topic)Do you think the complete lack of any mechanics in the Icebrood Saga story instances and the lack of any challenging achievements in the story instances is also "inconsistent"?

Honestly, I didn't (and never have) thought about inconsisteny in terms of what mechanics are part of an encounter or not. What I'm talking about HERE is related to how Anet presents content to players and how they have deviated from what players expect when they are presented with content. I think it's fair to say AT THIS POINT that Anet has been so inconsistent in many areas of the game with how they deliver content to people that it's almost impossible to say what the baseline for consistent content delivery should be ... that's a dire situation to be in IMO. That shouldn't give Anet card blanche to do whatever ... it should be a sign to them to PICK a path and take it.

I can recall a time when there were deviations that frustrated me AND were pleasing ... but in NEITHER instance did Anet continue in either of those directions. It was just like a one off ... an experiment ... at the expense of players struggling to understand what just happened to them. It's happening far too often IMO.

For instance, I remember at time (can't recall exactly) where I was Caithe in the storyline .. .or I had Caithe's weapon skills. Either way, I was massively frustrated because I was expected to learn and be GOOD with her toolset, not my own. I was in MY character muscle memory and key patterns ... and then I'm Caithe ... what a mess that was. OK, maybe some people thought that was a 'cool' thing to happen. My point being is that 'adopting' characters is massively inconsistent in how people play, how they do content (because frankly, it almost NEVER happens) ... yet, Anet did it. Like, WHAT?!?!?! And I can't recall many other times since that it's ever happened again. So WTH ... when I do content, the LEAST I can expect in consistency is on my side with how I play, what gear I have, etc ... and then POOF, it's gone. That's probably my most memorable example related to this.

[Vayne.8563]

Adding another thought to why strike missions dont' work for me, is that they really do feel seperate from everything else. I've always perceived a difference between my character being motivated and me being motivated. Rewards motivate me. But my character needs motivations to do things. The example that comes to mind is actually from Guild Wars 1 and it annoyed me enough to remember it all these years later.

In the Lahtenda Bog mission, we had to follow a corsair, pretending to be corsairs, in order to meet with a Kournan general. We were under cover. There was suddenly text on my screeen after I killed a Rhinkail monitor that I should kill all the Rhinkal monitors in Latendah Bog. There was no reason given for my character to do this. My character couldn't even see my screen. My character had no motivation to break cover and start running around looking for something when there was urgent business afoot. That's not like an achievement to avoid getting burned in a fight because of couse my character wouldn't get burned in a fight. Or not go down in fight. Why would my character want to go down in a fight.

When I"m fighting Scruffy 2.0 in a story, even though it's hard, it's not just tacked on to what I'm doing. I'm trying to save Tiami and I have a motivation. I'm trying to avoid attacks and so I have a motivation. When something appears in the open world, my character is motivated, even if it's just a woman asked me to help out and gather her ruined grapes because the guards won't help her. The more motivation that's given to my character the more I don't mind doing something.

Strike missions are just a boss Iv'e already fought, in another version without any explanation, in an instance he's never coming out of. I have reason to go in there...which is rewards. My character? Not part of the story. Nothing to give me a reason. It takes a living breathing world and turns it into a game. A game with different rules, since rezzing is different, revive orbs are diffrerent, nothing explained. Here's the world, learn the world...but in here the world is different. At least Fractals make some attempt to explain agony resistene.

This is an interuption in the flow of everything I do. It's just there. It's very much the reason why I don't love SPVP and I don't necessarily mind WvW. WvW I can at least make a justification about fighting for my realm. PvP is just a bunch of quick mini stories that are complete unconnected that make no attempt to motivate my character.

I know that probably sounds weird to a lot of you, but that's how I feel. Get together with this group of complete strangers and kill this boss for no other reason than the achievemnt panel say so. My character can't see the achievement panel.

[Randulf.7614]

The strikes do have an in game pointer about them. I am forgetting where the little background context comes from because I'm tired - but it's either mail or a map NPC who talks about threats invading the sanctum and Raven needing our help (iirc). The only one that I recall that still jars with the rest of the world/story is the Fraenir for obvious reasons. Oh and that Whisper thing.

I would agree with that being an issue. I have no issue with them being "walled off", but I'd like them to be in context as well. The latter two are not, whilst the Icebrood colossus, Boneskinner and two Kodan do fit within the context the game provides

[Ayrilana.1396]

I think we got a mail for the whispers one but I’m not sure about the other three. It may be with an NPC.

[Vayne.8563]

@Ameepa.6793 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:My biggest concern is some, like me and my wife, will force themselves to do it because they want the emote and then, it'll look like peoiple are doing strike missions when in reality they don't like them. Enough of that stuff loses players.

Indeed, I am kinda disappointed that you ended up "voting" it being a good thing to add strikes to meta since all they now see is that it was a success and they got new people doing them.

I'm gonna hold on to my "no" vote and leave the meta unfinished!

Often actions are better than just talk.

Well I don't have it yet and I'm not pushing it. I'm still sitting at around 20 achievements. I'm not focused on it. It'll be months before I get it, by which time, Anet will have had their data and either acted on it or not.

[Nephalem.8921]

@Vayne.8563 said:Well I don't have it yet and I'm not pushing it. I'm still sitting at around 20 achievements. I'm not focused on it. It'll be months before I get it, by which time, Anet will have had their data and either acted on it or not.

You also have to do the jumping puzzles 3 times for the meta. Lots of players hate jumping puzzles aswell. Should they be removed too?Read in another thread that a player stopped playing just because of this.

[Vayne.8563]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:Well I don't have it yet and I'm not pushing it. I'm still sitting at around 20 achievements. I'm not focused on it. It'll be months before I get it, by which time, Anet will have had their data and either acted on it or not.

You also have to do the jumping puzzles 3 times for the meta. Lots of players hate jumping puzzles aswell. Should they be removed too?Read in another thread that a player stopped playing just because of this.

I never said remove anything. If you think I did, please find the quote and paste it. I said give people options. That's all. Give them options like they did with Wintersday. You want the meta you don't have to do the jumping puzzle. But you can if youl ike that sort of things. Giving players more options is not a bad idea. If there are 50 achievements in the zone, don't make 10 of them achievements you need from Strike missions. Then someone can choose I'll do a strike mission or a jumping puzzle and everyone is happy. Do I think it's great design to force someone to do something they don't like that's different from what they've been doing all along? Not really no.

[Valandil.6453]

I personally am not for the strike missions if they're going to keep them as difficult as they are. To me it looks like they were designed as a prelude to raids - difficulty and all. They're not going to hold onto casual players by keeping these as part of the map achieves either.

Casual players just follow the story along, do meta content, get a few achieves and that's all.. until the next LS story. It's the same with most LS maps. Including 'elite' content (which if you have to use certain buffs and food to get an optimal outcome, and also have a certain type of team arrangement for success) isn't what casual players sign up for.

I went out of my way and spent a small fortune on my disused guardian (now dragonhunter) and got him up to raid-spec with gear and utilities just so he could get involved with strike missions and make a difference. Sure it hits harder than most players in the instance, being naturally bursty, but it takes cooperation from ALL team members with their gear/stats/utilities, etc. Winning a strike mission should be about skill not luck. As such I might as well have stayed on my main for all the good it's done so far.

Regarding the Whisper of Jormag (or whatever it is), towards the end of that strike mission is where it gets most fiddly. Below about 33% the visual noise is far too much, and you can't eliminate it by turning graphic quality down either. It's REALLY hard to know what's going on, especially for some newbie just doing their strike mission for the first time.

[Vayne.8563]

Just thought I"d leave this here, since apparently I'm not the only person having issues. This post has 68 upvotes so far on reddit.

https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/f89qmr/played_strike_missions_for_the_first_time_and/

[Ayrilana.1396]

They were likely doing the whispers strike mission which is far more difficult than the other three. It’s was also their first time so unlikely that they would have gotten many of the achievements other than those handed out for being present.

[Vayne.8563]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:They were likely doing the whispers strike mission which is far more difficult than the other three. It’s was also their first time so unlikely that they would have gotten many of the achievements other than those handed out for being present.

Doesn't really affect what I'm saying. Casual players don't want to do research online to figure out everything like this. They had this experience because this is the experience being offered and a casual will experience this way. There are enough upvotes to that post to make it a pretty common reaction.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:They were likely doing the whispers strike mission which is far more difficult than the other three. It’s was also their first time so unlikely that they would have gotten many of the achievements other than those handed out for being present.

Doesn't really affect what I'm saying. Casual players don't want to do research online to figure out everything like this. They had this experience because this is the experience being offered and a casual will experience this way. There are enough upvotes to that post to make it a pretty common reaction.

You don't need to do research online for strike missions. They're simple enough that you can learn what to do after a few tries.

Also, upvotes on Reddit don't really mean anything.

[Vayne.8563]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:They were likely doing the whispers strike mission which is far more difficult than the other three. It’s was also their first time so unlikely that they would have gotten many of the achievements other than those handed out for being present.

Doesn't really affect what I'm saying. Casual players don't want to do research online to figure out everything like this. They had this experience because this is the experience being offered and a casual will experience this way. There are enough upvotes to that post to make it a pretty common reaction.

You don't need to do research online for strike missions. They're simple enough that you can learn what to do after a few tries.

Also, upvotes on Reddit don't really mean anything.

Don't kid yourself. Upvotes on reddit mean something. It means people are experiencing what I'm experiencing. I only had a modest number of likes on this post, but I find fewer people using hte like button on forums over all even if they agree with you and said so. Reddit is another story altogther.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:They were likely doing the whispers strike mission which is far more difficult than the other three. It’s was also their first time so unlikely that they would have gotten many of the achievements other than those handed out for being present.

Doesn't really affect what I'm saying. Casual players don't want to do research online to figure out everything like this. They had this experience because this is the experience being offered and a casual will experience this way. There are enough upvotes to that post to make it a pretty common reaction.

You don't need to do research online for strike missions. They're simple enough that you can learn what to do after a few tries.

Also, upvotes on Reddit don't really mean anything.

Don't kid yourself. Upvotes on reddit mean something. It means people are experiencing what I'm experiencing. I only had a modest number of likes on this post, but I find fewer people using hte like button on forums over all even if they agree with you and said so. Reddit is another story altogther.

What it doesn't show are those that disagree with you. Reddit also has a very bipolar hive-mind mentality. What could get upvotes one day can just as well get downvotes the next. Even posts that state complete facts can receive downvotes into the negatives.

[Vayne.8563]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:They were likely doing the whispers strike mission which is far more difficult than the other three. It’s was also their first time so unlikely that they would have gotten many of the achievements other than those handed out for being present.

Doesn't really affect what I'm saying. Casual players don't want to do research online to figure out everything like this. They had this experience because this is the experience being offered and a casual will experience this way. There are enough upvotes to that post to make it a pretty common reaction.

You don't need to do research online for strike missions. They're simple enough that you can learn what to do after a few tries.

Also, upvotes on Reddit don't really mean anything.

Don't kid yourself. Upvotes on reddit mean something. It means people are experiencing what I'm experiencing. I only had a modest number of likes on this post, but I find fewer people using hte like button on forums over all even if they agree with you and said so. Reddit is another story altogther.

What it doesn't show are those that disagree with you. Reddit also has a very bipolar hive-mind mentality. What could get upvotes one day can just as well get downvotes the next. Even posts that state complete facts can receive downvotes into the negatives.

While I agree with some of what you say, it's easy to see the % of people who upvoted a post. This post is 83% upvoted. If you don't think that's an issue it's certainly okay. I think it means something. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I should also mention this is pretty much against the harder core hive mind of reddit.

[Cameron.6450]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:They were likely doing the whispers strike mission which is far more difficult than the other three. It’s was also their first time so unlikely that they would have gotten many of the achievements other than those handed out for being present.

Doesn't really affect what I'm saying. Casual players don't want to do research online to figure out everything like this. They had this experience because this is the experience being offered and a casual will experience this way. There are enough upvotes to that post to make it a pretty common reaction.

You don't need to do research online for strike missions. They're simple enough that you can learn what to do after a few tries.

Also, upvotes on Reddit don't really mean anything.

Don't kid yourself. Upvotes on reddit mean something. It means people are experiencing what I'm experiencing. I only had a modest number of likes on this post, but I find fewer people using hte like button on forums over all even if they agree with you and said so. Reddit is another story altogther.

What it doesn't show are those that disagree with you. Reddit also has a very bipolar hive-mind mentality. What could get upvotes one day can just as well get downvotes the next. Even posts that state complete facts can receive downvotes into the negatives.

While I agree with some of what you say, it's easy to see the % of people who upvoted a post. This post is 83% upvoted. If you don't think that's an issue it's certainly okay. I think it means something. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I should also mention this is pretty much against the harder core hive mind of reddit.

The full thread title is "Played Strike Missions for the first time and people are dying all the time in random groups ... it's even worse than in Tier 1 Fractals. what is happening?". That's basically a "why people so bad lol" title, and the title is not expanded on by the OP until further down in the comments. It is highly unlikely that those upvotes are mostly from people who are "experiencing what you're experiencing".

[Vayne.8563]

@Cameron.6450 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:They were likely doing the whispers strike mission which is far more difficult than the other three. It’s was also their first time so unlikely that they would have gotten many of the achievements other than those handed out for being present.

Doesn't really affect what I'm saying. Casual players don't want to do research online to figure out everything like this. They had this experience because this is the experience being offered and a casual will experience this way. There are enough upvotes to that post to make it a pretty common reaction.

You don't need to do research online for strike missions. They're simple enough that you can learn what to do after a few tries.

Also, upvotes on Reddit don't really mean anything.

Don't kid yourself. Upvotes on reddit mean something. It means people are experiencing what I'm experiencing. I only had a modest number of likes on this post, but I find fewer people using hte like button on forums over all even if they agree with you and said so. Reddit is another story altogther.

What it doesn't show are those that disagree with you. Reddit also has a very bipolar hive-mind mentality. What could get upvotes one day can just as well get downvotes the next. Even posts that state complete facts can receive downvotes into the negatives.

While I agree with some of what you say, it's easy to see the % of people who upvoted a post. This post is 83% upvoted. If you don't think that's an issue it's certainly okay. I think it means something. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I should also mention this is pretty much against the harder core hive mind of reddit.

The full thread title is "Played Strike Missions for the first time and people are dying all the time in random groups ... it's even worse than in Tier 1 Fractals. what is happening?". That's basically a "why people so bad lol" title, and the title is not expanded on by the OP until further down in the comments. It is highly unlikely that those upvotes are mostly from people who are "experiencing what you're experiencing".

I'm reading comments. I'm definitely not alone here.

Edit: In fact if he's saying everyone is bad, it intensifies everything I'm saying about strike missions. Why would I want to play with people like that?

[Cameron.6450]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Cameron.6450 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:They were likely doing the whispers strike mission which is far more difficult than the other three. It’s was also their first time so unlikely that they would have gotten many of the achievements other than those handed out for being present.

Doesn't really affect what I'm saying. Casual players don't want to do research online to figure out everything like this. They had this experience because this is the experience being offered and a casual will experience this way. There are enough upvotes to that post to make it a pretty common reaction.

You don't need to do research online for strike missions. They're simple enough that you can learn what to do after a few tries.

Also, upvotes on Reddit don't really mean anything.

Don't kid yourself. Upvotes on reddit mean something. It means people are experiencing what I'm experiencing. I only had a modest number of likes on this post, but I find fewer people using hte like button on forums over all even if they agree with you and said so. Reddit is another story altogther.

What it doesn't show are those that disagree with you. Reddit also has a very bipolar hive-mind mentality. What could get upvotes one day can just as well get downvotes the next. Even posts that state complete facts can receive downvotes into the negatives.

While I agree with some of what you say, it's easy to see the % of people who upvoted a post. This post is 83% upvoted. If you don't think that's an issue it's certainly okay. I think it means something. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I should also mention this is pretty much against the harder core hive mind of reddit.

The full thread title is "Played Strike Missions for the first time and people are dying all the time in random groups ... it's even worse than in Tier 1 Fractals. what is happening?". That's basically a "why people so bad lol" title, and the title is not expanded on by the OP until further down in the comments. It is highly unlikely that those upvotes are mostly from people who are "experiencing what you're experiencing".

I'm reading comments. I'm definitely not alone here.

Edit: In fact if he's saying everyone is bad, it intensifies everything I'm saying about strike missions. Why would I want to play with people like that?

I didn't see any comments that mention strike missions being part of the meta achievement. There's a bunch of complaints about it being too difficult, but I'm pretty sure I remember you (and others) saying that it wasn't that strikes were too hard, but rather that they were instanced content in the first place.

And I don't think the OP was intending to make a "why people so bad lol" thread, but it's very easy to interpret their title in that way. I got the impression from the op's comments further down that it was genuine confusion as to why so many people were dying, but it's not clear. It could be possible that they are a regular raider who stepped into it and was making a comment on how people suck, but I doubt it. But even if he were being disparaging, if getting the strike done was such a big deal for so many people in your guild, I'm not really sure why you'd be doing it with random pugs instead of your guild members, since presumably none of them would act in that way.

[Vayne.8563]

@Cameron.6450 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Cameron.6450 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:They were likely doing the whispers strike mission which is far more difficult than the other three. It’s was also their first time so unlikely that they would have gotten many of the achievements other than those handed out for being present.

Doesn't really affect what I'm saying. Casual players don't want to do research online to figure out everything like this. They had this experience because this is the experience being offered and a casual will experience this way. There are enough upvotes to that post to make it a pretty common reaction.

You don't need to do research online for strike missions. They're simple enough that you can learn what to do after a few tries.

Also, upvotes on Reddit don't really mean anything.

Don't kid yourself. Upvotes on reddit mean something. It means people are experiencing what I'm experiencing. I only had a modest number of likes on this post, but I find fewer people using hte like button on forums over all even if they agree with you and said so. Reddit is another story altogther.

What it doesn't show are those that disagree with you. Reddit also has a very bipolar hive-mind mentality. What could get upvotes one day can just as well get downvotes the next. Even posts that state complete facts can receive downvotes into the negatives.

While I agree with some of what you say, it's easy to see the % of people who upvoted a post. This post is 83% upvoted. If you don't think that's an issue it's certainly okay. I think it means something. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I should also mention this is pretty much against the harder core hive mind of reddit.

The full thread title is "Played Strike Missions for the first time and people are dying all the time in random groups ... it's even worse than in Tier 1 Fractals. what is happening?". That's basically a "why people so bad lol" title, and the title is not expanded on by the OP until further down in the comments. It is highly unlikely that those upvotes are mostly from people who are "experiencing what you're experiencing".

I'm reading comments. I'm definitely not alone here.

Edit: In fact if he's saying everyone is bad, it intensifies everything I'm saying about strike missions. Why would I want to play with people like that?

I didn't see any comments that mention strike missions being part of the meta achievement. There's a bunch of complaints about it being too difficult, but I'm pretty sure I remember you (and others) saying that it wasn't that strikes were too hard, but rather that they were instanced content in the first place.

And I don't think the OP was intending to make a "why people so bad lol" thread, but it's very easy to interpret their title in that way. I got the impression from the op's comments further down that it was genuine confusion as to why so many people were dying, but it's not clear. It could be possible that they are a regular raider who stepped into it and was making a comment on how people suck, but I doubt it. But even if he were being disparaging, if getting the strike done was such a big deal for so many people in your guild, I'm not really sure why you'd be doing it with random pugs instead of your guild members, since presumably none of them would act in that way.

Well, I think you're taking a pretty narrow view here. Strike mission, people dying and he doesn't know why. But people are dying. I'm pretty sure a lot of people don't really get what they have to do, and are walking away from the whole meta, and possibly the zone. My interest in the zone, because of this is greatly decreased over previous zones. I'm just not interested. I fought against raids being added to the game but they got added anyway. As long as they stayed in their lane, that was fine but now they're moving into a more public area of the game. It's absolutely not the game I want to play and again I'm not alone. in fact, I'd guess there are far more people who don't want this than want it. Just a guess but I think it's a good one.

You want to add challenging, instanced content to the game, go ahead. Want to put it as part of a meta...you're going to get backlash. How many people will come to forums or reddit to complain is probabliy small compared to the number of people who'll just stop playing or at least not do that content.

Usually I'm a defender of the game. This is one change I can't defend, and again, at least in my guild it seems there's less interest in the zone, at least partially because of this.

[Randulf.7614]

Again, stop speaking for "casuals". I am casual minded, so are many of the players I play with and we all utterly disagree with you and have no issues with playing Strikes, nor would any of them even consider quitting the game because of it.