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Buff core necro stability access


ZeftheWicked.3076

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:it's about how Anet wants the game to work.

anet has abandoned their own design philosophy further and further with each expac. you're the only one arguing to maintain this philosophy. does it make sense for necro, the class with the lowest mobility, to have no stab? cuz shroud isn't much of an argument since it routinely fails to work in a number of scenarios and is one of the specs that is hard countered the hardest out of all of them. besides, are you claiming to speak for anet? who are you to say what they will and will not do lol.

I don't think you answer his point thought. Obtena is right in what he say, it's all about what anet want, not what players want and any player complaining (me included) give a biased point of view which isn't necessarily shared by anet. Complaining is just a way to share our point of view, but in the end only anet decide how they want their game to work. If they think that the necromancer have to much stability, the necromancer have to much stability (whether we agree or not).

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@Dadnir.5038 said:I don't think you answer his point thought. Obtena is right in what he say, it's all about what anet want, not what players want and any player complaining (me included) give a biased point of view which isn't necessarily shared by anet. Complaining is just a way to share our point of view, but in the end only anet decide how they want their game to work. If they think that the necromancer have to much stability, the necromancer have to much stability (whether we agree or not).

agreed, ppl have the right to voice their opinions on forums. saying no you can't do this and actually trying to prove it is a glorious waste of energy. it annoys me how some ppl will go on and on about how and why something should/ should not be done. just voice your opinion and move on, jesus. 4 fucking pages worth! ridiculous.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:it's about how Anet wants the game to work.

anet has abandoned their own design philosophy further and further with each expac. you're the only one arguing to maintain this philosophy. does it make sense for necro, the class with the lowest mobility, to have no stab? cuz shroud isn't much of an argument since it routinely fails to work in a number of scenarios and is one of the specs that is hard countered the hardest out of all of them. besides, are you claiming to speak for anet? who are you to say what they will and will not do lol.

That's nice .. but you must be mistaking me with someone that makes these decisions about how classes are designed or how the game works. Sorry, that's not me. I just understand things about the game other people dismiss, for whatever reason ... like yourself.

There was never some claim I spoke for Anet; that's a dead end discussion. I think I've made it pretty clear that lots of people, including yourself in this case, are willing to ignore how things work to justify how they think the game should change. I don't know what makes people think that way; it makes no sense to do so. I think it's worth saying here again:

If you aren't going to take the effort to understand why the game works as it does, you will never understand how it can change.

Shroud isn't an argument because it fails? OK ... that might be true. That might be the TRUEST TRUTH in all the game ... but that doesn't mean it makes sense for core necros to get more stability. I mean, holy crap guys ... Anet is TELLING you this isn't inline with their design of necro class; and you're going to argue that the people who define the class and how it works ... are wrong? You don't understand ... Find a different approach. Don't be so married to your ideas about what should be done.

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Anet's approach is a buff in durability, not stability... whether people like it or not.

They have a vision of hard cc as a counter to - regarding core - an absurd amount of durability. Not even mobility will counter core necro when it runs a signet build since it has 1200 range and builds up tons of life force passively. Leave it alone for a moment and it will be back with 100% life force. That's a clear vision of how the class is meant to be played and meant to be countered. And there is no room for stability demands.

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@KrHome.1920 said:Anet's approach is a buff in durability, not stability... whether people like it or not.

They have a vision of hard cc as a counter to - regarding core - an absurd amount of durability. Not even mobility will counter core necro when it runs a signet build since it has 1200 range and builds up tons of life force passively. Leave it alone for a moment and it will be back with 100% life force. That's a clear vision of how the class is meant to be played and meant to be countered. And there is no room for stability demands.

I think that's a really accurate assessment considering that Anet keeps making changes that strongly encourage people to shroud up as much as they can.

If people don't like camping shroud, this class is NOT for them.If they can't figure out how to optimally use shroud to maximize their uptime, this class is not for them.If they aren't willing to accept that Necro is a more difficult class to master because of these things, this class if not for them.

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@"Anchoku.8142" said:If they delete damage from control effects, it is a buff to shroud up-time.

However, I suspect shroud will be nerfed, too.

Yes and no.While CC's won't do dmg anymore, a lot of the cc skills got longer cc duration.So while the initial dmg might not be there, it's even easier to land the follow up damage.Making the situation at least as bad as before the patch.

The only difference:Before patch: cc into cc into cc into cc..., while all do heavy damageAfter the patch: cc into dmg int cc into dmg..., While all dmg is tuned down this might first not sound as bad. But as soon as people really learn to do this "rotation" necro will be locked down even longer than before the patch

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:it's about how Anet wants the game to work.

anet has abandoned their own design philosophy further and further with each expac. you're the only one arguing to maintain this philosophy. does it make sense for necro, the class with the lowest mobility, to have no stab? cuz shroud isn't much of an argument since it routinely fails to work in a number of scenarios and is one of the specs that is hard countered the hardest out of all of them. besides, are you claiming to speak for anet? who are you to say what they will and will not do lol.

That's nice .. but you must be mistaking me with someone that makes these decisions about how classes are designed or how the game works. Sorry, that's not me. I just understand things about the game other people dismiss, for whatever reason ... like yourself.

There was never some claim I spoke for Anet; that's a dead end discussion. I think I've made it pretty clear that lots of people, including yourself in this case, are willing to ignore how things work to justify how they think the game should change. I don't know what makes people think that way; it makes no sense to do so. I think it's worth saying here again:

If you aren't going to take the effort to understand why the game works as it does, you will never understand how it can change.

Shroud isn't an argument because it fails? OK ... that might be true. That might be the TRUEST TRUTH in all the game ... but that doesn't mean it makes sense for core necros to get more stability. I mean, holy kitten guys ... Anet is TELLING you this isn't inline with their design of necro class; and you're going to argue that the people who define the class and how it works ... are wrong? You don't understand ... Find a different approach. Don't be so married to your ideas about what should be done.

What people are saying has nothing to do about stability (it's a bandaid) but the poor design of the class in general. The new specs are getting more abilities and the most successful classes are the ones with stacking boons, greater amount of abilities, and built in preventive measures in abilities. Necros don't have any of that and they keep pushing a concept that simply doesn't work in any competitive play. Nor will it be a "fun" class to play because of the longer and more consistent low damage cc. Instead of the rush and kill or be killed it will be a long (a very long...) drawn out game of you being pulled, dazed, knocked down, and knocked back till death.

I'm perfectly content dying on my necro as I do with all my other professions but it really is the the only one where I don't really have all that many buttons to press or able to push said limited buttons all that often either. Which from a design perspective feels kinda... well shitty.

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@Mabon.8756 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:it's about how Anet wants the game to work.

anet has abandoned their own design philosophy further and further with each expac. you're the only one arguing to maintain this philosophy. does it make sense for necro, the class with the lowest mobility, to have no stab? cuz shroud isn't much of an argument since it routinely fails to work in a number of scenarios and is one of the specs that is hard countered the hardest out of all of them. besides, are you claiming to speak for anet? who are you to say what they will and will not do lol.

That's nice .. but you must be mistaking me with someone that makes these decisions about how classes are designed or how the game works. Sorry, that's not me. I just understand things about the game other people dismiss, for whatever reason ... like yourself.

There was never some claim I spoke for Anet; that's a dead end discussion. I think I've made it pretty clear that lots of people, including yourself in this case, are willing to ignore how things work to justify how they think the game should change. I don't know what makes people think that way; it makes no sense to do so. I think it's worth saying here again:

If you aren't going to take the effort to understand why the game works as it does, you will never understand how it can change.

Shroud isn't an argument because it fails? OK ... that might be true. That might be the TRUEST TRUTH in all the game ... but that doesn't mean it makes sense for core necros to get more stability. I mean, holy kitten guys ... Anet is TELLING you this isn't inline with their design of necro class; and you're going to argue that the people who define the class and how it works ... are wrong? You don't understand ... Find a different approach. Don't be so married to your ideas about what should be done.

What people are saying has nothing to do about stability (it's a bandaid) but the poor design of the class in general. The new specs are getting more abilities and the most successful classes are the ones with stacking boons, greater amount of abilities, and built in preventive measures in abilities. Necros don't have any of that and they keep pushing a concept that simply doesn't work in any competitive play. Nor will it be a "fun" class to play because of the longer and more consistent low damage cc. Instead of the rush and kill or be killed it will be a long (a very long...) drawn out game of you being pulled, dazed, knocked down, and knocked back till death.

I'm perfectly content dying on my necro as I do with all my other professions but it really is the the only one where I don't really have all that many buttons to press or able to push said limited buttons all that often either. Which from a design perspective feels kinda... well kitten.

The soaker didn't work either before because the design is meant to take hits but the dmg was far too high and necro would get destroyed without much a chance to counter, so it was needed anyways just to make soaking type design not useless.

There is going to have to be compromised and unfortunately, you know and I know that necro would be made vulnerable to something after making them better at soaking.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:it's about how Anet wants the game to work.

anet has abandoned their own design philosophy further and further with each expac. you're the only one arguing to maintain this philosophy. does it make sense for necro, the class with the lowest mobility, to have no stab? cuz shroud isn't much of an argument since it routinely fails to work in a number of scenarios and is one of the specs that is hard countered the hardest out of all of them. besides, are you claiming to speak for anet? who are you to say what they will and will not do lol.

That's nice .. but you must be mistaking me with someone that makes these decisions about how classes are designed or how the game works. Sorry, that's not me. I just understand things about the game other people dismiss, for whatever reason ... like yourself.

There was never some claim I spoke for Anet; that's a dead end discussion. I think I've made it pretty clear that lots of people, including yourself in this case, are willing to ignore how things work to justify how they think the game should change. I don't know what makes people think that way; it makes no sense to do so. I think it's worth saying here again:

If you aren't going to take the effort to understand why the game works as it does, you will never understand how it can change.

Shroud isn't an argument because it fails? OK ... that might be true. That might be the TRUEST TRUTH in all the game ... but that doesn't mean it makes sense for core necros to get more stability. I mean, holy kitten guys ... Anet is TELLING you this isn't inline with their design of necro class; and you're going to argue that the people who define the class and how it works ... are wrong? You don't understand ... Find a different approach. Don't be so married to your ideas about what should be done.

What people are saying has nothing to do about stability (it's a bandaid) but the poor design of the class in general. The new specs are getting more abilities and the most successful classes are the ones with stacking boons, greater amount of abilities, and built in preventive measures in abilities. Necros don't have any of that and they keep pushing a concept that simply doesn't work in any competitive play. Nor will it be a "fun" class to play because of the longer and more consistent low damage cc. Instead of the rush and kill or be killed it will be a long (a very long...) drawn out game of you being pulled, dazed, knocked down, and knocked back till death.

I'm perfectly content dying on my necro as I do with all my other professions but it really is the the only one where I don't really have all that many buttons to press or able to push said limited buttons all that often either. Which from a design perspective feels kinda... well kitten.

The soaker didn't work either before because the design is meant to take hits but the dmg was far too high and necro would get destroyed without much a chance to counter, so it was needed anyways just to make soaking type design not useless.

There is going to have to be compromised and unfortunately, you know and I know that necro would be made vulnerable to something after making them better at soaking.

Of course it makes sense, but it won't end there. They will reduce life force generation, you can count on it. It happens every time, "It takes forever to kill a Necro on the node, finally get them out of shroud and then when they are about die they are back in shroud with regen!" So yes lots of soaking but no parties having fun.

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@Mabon.8756 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:it's about how Anet wants the game to work.

anet has abandoned their own design philosophy further and further with each expac. you're the only one arguing to maintain this philosophy. does it make sense for necro, the class with the lowest mobility, to have no stab? cuz shroud isn't much of an argument since it routinely fails to work in a number of scenarios and is one of the specs that is hard countered the hardest out of all of them. besides, are you claiming to speak for anet? who are you to say what they will and will not do lol.

That's nice .. but you must be mistaking me with someone that makes these decisions about how classes are designed or how the game works. Sorry, that's not me. I just understand things about the game other people dismiss, for whatever reason ... like yourself.

There was never some claim I spoke for Anet; that's a dead end discussion. I think I've made it pretty clear that lots of people, including yourself in this case, are willing to ignore how things work to justify how they think the game should change. I don't know what makes people think that way; it makes no sense to do so. I think it's worth saying here again:

If you aren't going to take the effort to understand why the game works as it does, you will never understand how it can change.

Shroud isn't an argument because it fails? OK ... that might be true. That might be the TRUEST TRUTH in all the game ... but that doesn't mean it makes sense for core necros to get more stability. I mean, holy kitten guys ... Anet is TELLING you this isn't inline with their design of necro class; and you're going to argue that the people who define the class and how it works ... are wrong? You don't understand ... Find a different approach. Don't be so married to your ideas about what should be done.

What people are saying has nothing to do about stability (it's a bandaid) but the poor design of the class in general.

OK, sure ... but I'm in THIS thread and I can read ... it's pretty clear and so was Anet.

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Death shroud 3 should grant 1 stack of stability to allow the necro yo do some dps after fearing the target. But without giving necro stability in every other skill, I think that every instant skill than grants stability should be a stunbreak such as Reaper Shroud 3, Trail of Anguish, Plague.This can be added to every class as a QoL/balance hotfix.

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That's not QoL or balance, that's the return to powercreep (skills doing too much at once) they are finally getting rid of. There is still some work to do, but the patch is a good start.

CC and damage at once... stunbreak and stability or mobility at once... evade and attack at once... counter reveal with anti reveal... all bull-shit that needs to be removed.

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