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  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Stealth is fine. Weaver is fine. Everything is fine.
    Nerf necro

    This guy gets it

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:
    another one? i want this game to be fixed. i can go and play thief too in wvw but it's just too cheesy over there

    Permastealth is definitely cheese but so is 90% of the builds and rotations people use on their preferred class so.... permastealth is just king of the hill in the cheese mountain that is gw2 these days. If u think nerfing stealth will FIX this game u need to pay more attention and broaden ur view.

    So you agree that the game is full of cheese builds and permastealth(thieves) is king of the kill of cheese builds, but nothing should be done to the king of the hill cheese build because you believe it's not the one magical fix it all the game needs.... Broaden your views? A lot of things obviously need to be adjusted/tweaked/fixed and should be looked at some point, the massive balance patch for damage and support is already under way, doesn't mean other things shouldn't be looked at including stealth game play. Other games have implemented stealth/invis game play much than this game has.

    IMO as a mesmer main, stealth should be fully removed from the game if they can't be bothered to balance advantages and limitations properly. Permastealth thief with portal running around keeps, sneak gyro adjusted multiple times on duration and cooldowns... 7 years after release, they still don't have a clue.

    Nope! Not what I said at all. I don't think stealth should see any major changes until the game as a whole does, not that it doesn't need changes full stop. If the game goes in a direction where it's not a cheese fest across ALL classes than by all means change stealth. I've always advocated stealth as a cloak like effect similar to preditor where in ur only true invisible when not moving. A few skills that are not stackable giving thief 6 secs invisibility while moving so to allow them to atleast attempts a backstab would be fair as backstab by a cloaked player wouldn't be possible unless the opponent is literally not paying attention at all which isn't a good factor to balance around.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:
    Exactly and it's been like this for way too long without any changes to stealth. I really believe a good amount of damage over time when ppl are in stealth should fix that problem. Ofcourse shadow's rejuvenation should get nerfed too because at the moment perma stealth thiefs get rewarded for going stealth? Give me a reason why i should play thief in wvw lol

    Stealth is where it needs to be in the cheese fest that the game is these days, if it was nerfed thieves that rely on stealth as a defensive and offensive mechanic would be free food. If games gets major overhaul and majorly depowercrept and hopefully somewhat depowercheesed than think about nerfing stealth or changing it.

    ooh, those poor thieves. Without stealth they might actually be forced to be good.

    It is not that they are quick and hard to catch in the first place.

    Stealth needs to be removed.

    This is the biased garbage posts that I'm glad are ignored by the devs as the show a complete ignorance to actual balance or the attempt to do so. Go play thief sans stealth or without spamming a skill like pw(the other current community complaint) and record and post how well u do against the other classes and their builds. It's easy for someone who dislikes thief to just say erase one of their main mechanics and they be fine and force them to be good but talk is cheap and uninformed and ignorant in ur case.

  • as someone who gets killed by thieves all the time and is really really horrible when I try to play as a thief. I think stealth is fine, people just need to learn not to stand still out in the open field by their lonesome for more than 5 seconds. If you want to afk, do it in an objective or at spawn. If you're trying to solo cata/ram an objective always be ready to dodge and run in case enemies come. If you were moving in one direction when the thief managed to backstab you, congratulate the thief on a job well done and learn to move in a less predictable way. Getting a backstab off successfully is not easy, unless the target is careless or stupid, I know because I've tried it and failed because I'm a horrible thief, and I've gotten backstabbed and wrecked plenty of times when I was being careless or stupid.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    we don't belong here, this game is not for us :(

    That's true, now stop talking about it and just leave :)

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Maybe the devs have inside jokes and competitions about who can make the most toxic skills, traits and combos and they all try to outdo each other ¯_༼ •́ ͜ʖ •̀ ༽_/¯
    Not gonna lie, it's probably fun to do that

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:
    Exactly and it's been like this for way too long without any changes to stealth. I really believe a good amount of damage over time when ppl are in stealth should fix that problem. Ofcourse shadow's rejuvenation should get nerfed too because at the moment perma stealth thiefs get rewarded for going stealth? Give me a reason why i should play thief in wvw lol

    Stealth is where it needs to be in the cheese fest that the game is these days, if it was nerfed thieves that rely on stealth as a defensive and offensive mechanic would be free food. If games gets major overhaul and majorly depowercrept and hopefully somewhat depowercheesed than think about nerfing stealth or changing it.

    ooh, those poor thieves. Without stealth they might actually be forced to be good.

    It is not that they are quick and hard to catch in the first place.

    Stealth needs to be removed.

    Spaghetti code.... stealth improvements not found.

  • @Sobx.1758 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:
    another one? i want this game to be fixed. i can go and play thief too in wvw but it's just too cheesy over there

    You're playing mirage, not exactly in position to talk about being cheesy :<
    Also I think you can't, because you prefer playing safer and easier mirage :D

    you don't get it

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2020

    @appelflap.8310 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:
    Every class has cheese specs and that's ok because the animations still remain visible so there is always counterplay. The problem still is the fact that thiefs can 1 shot with 1 skill out of stealth that isn't visible (no animations) so no counterplay. If they had to use 2 skills to 1 shot (assuming the first skill doesnt hit for 15k+) wich gives maybe 0.5 seconds or less time to counter, I would be ok with it because we atleast would HAVE an option to counter.

    But I get what amounts to basically one shot by mirages but that's fine because u play it right and tell urself some lame bias excuse why it's ok lol

    if you get 1 shotted by mesmer/mirage it's because you dont know what dodge means, if you played this game you would know mesmer burst needs 3+ skills to 1 shot wich means there is little time to counter BUT there is an option. thief can do it with 1 skill, that's a whole different story bro. Don't get me wrong mirage should get nerfed too.

    if u get 1 shotted as mirage u need learn how to dodge to break stun cus no other cc comes from thief that would 1 shot you.
    tbh with u theres not a single thief that one shots you. youre talking about deadeye well when u have a mark on ur head u know hes around and u can start moving your kitten quickly by using mount or stick to a blob.

    if ur gonna tell me u get 1 shotted by thief or daredevil then id suggest looking at your gear cus then ur probably geared to 1 bang people also and u cry when u get 1 shotted.
    i dont really understand why moi as thief or core ele never get these 1 shot moments by another thief... no im not saying its a l2p issue but for some reason some people get bullied over and over to cry on forum over a class whos probably among the gimpest classes when it comes to WvW overall gameplay maybe u should start thinking how i can prevent this different gear? dont run away from blob? start using mount when marked? start paying attention to actually see thief going in hide? i mean most of the time when a thief is going in hide u could have seen that no thief sits in a corner for ever waiting for some1 to pass by to 1 hit..

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Maybe adding CD to some skills and/or bringing exhaustion mechanic back once again.

    If a thief keeps using burst to fast starts generating exaution where thief energy bar becomes harder to gain tick and as less total.

    This or adding CD to skills.

    we 1 hit bro who cares about CD when u 1 hit :D!

  • @reddie.5861 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:
    Every class has cheese specs and that's ok because the animations still remain visible so there is always counterplay. The problem still is the fact that thiefs can 1 shot with 1 skill out of stealth that isn't visible (no animations) so no counterplay. If they had to use 2 skills to 1 shot (assuming the first skill doesnt hit for 15k+) wich gives maybe 0.5 seconds or less time to counter, I would be ok with it because we atleast would HAVE an option to counter.

    But I get what amounts to basically one shot by mirages but that's fine because u play it right and tell urself some lame bias excuse why it's ok lol

    if you get 1 shotted by mesmer/mirage it's because you dont know what dodge means, if you played this game you would know mesmer burst needs 3+ skills to 1 shot wich means there is little time to counter BUT there is an option. thief can do it with 1 skill, that's a whole different story bro. Don't get me wrong mirage should get nerfed too.

    if u get 1 shotted as mirage u need learn how to dodge to break stun cus no other cc comes from thief that would 1 shot you.
    tbh with u theres not a single thief that one shots you. youre talking about deadeye well when u have a mark on ur head u know hes around and u can start moving your kitten quickly by using mount or stick to a blob.

    if ur gonna tell me u get 1 shotted by thief or daredevil then id suggest looking at your gear cus then ur probably geared to 1 bang people also and u cry when u get 1 shotted.
    i dont really understand why moi as thief or core ele never get these 1 shot moments by another thief... no im not saying its a l2p issue but for some reason some people get bullied over and over to cry on forum over a class whos probably among the gimpest classes when it comes to WvW overall gameplay maybe u should start thinking how i can prevent this different gear? dont run away from blob? start using mount when marked? start paying attention to actually see thief going in hide? i mean most of the time when a thief is going in hide u could have seen that no thief sits in a corner for ever waiting for some1 to pass by to 1 hit..

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Maybe adding CD to some skills and/or bringing exhaustion mechanic back once again.

    If a thief keeps using burst to fast starts generating exaution where thief energy bar becomes harder to gain tick and as less total.

    This or adding CD to skills.

    we 1 hit bro who cares about CD when u 1 hit :D!

    you also don't get it

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @appelflap.8310 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:
    Every class has cheese specs and that's ok because the animations still remain visible so there is always counterplay. The problem still is the fact that thiefs can 1 shot with 1 skill out of stealth that isn't visible (no animations) so no counterplay. If they had to use 2 skills to 1 shot (assuming the first skill doesnt hit for 15k+) wich gives maybe 0.5 seconds or less time to counter, I would be ok with it because we atleast would HAVE an option to counter.

    But I get what amounts to basically one shot by mirages but that's fine because u play it right and tell urself some lame bias excuse why it's ok lol

    if you get 1 shotted by mesmer/mirage it's because you dont know what dodge means, if you played this game you would know mesmer burst needs 3+ skills to 1 shot wich means there is little time to counter BUT there is an option. thief can do it with 1 skill, that's a whole different story bro. Don't get me wrong mirage should get nerfed too.

    if u get 1 shotted as mirage u need learn how to dodge to break stun cus no other cc comes from thief that would 1 shot you.
    tbh with u theres not a single thief that one shots you. youre talking about deadeye well when u have a mark on ur head u know hes around and u can start moving your kitten quickly by using mount or stick to a blob.

    if ur gonna tell me u get 1 shotted by thief or daredevil then id suggest looking at your gear cus then ur probably geared to 1 bang people also and u cry when u get 1 shotted.
    i dont really understand why moi as thief or core ele never get these 1 shot moments by another thief... no im not saying its a l2p issue but for some reason some people get bullied over and over to cry on forum over a class whos probably among the gimpest classes when it comes to WvW overall gameplay maybe u should start thinking how i can prevent this different gear? dont run away from blob? start using mount when marked? start paying attention to actually see thief going in hide? i mean most of the time when a thief is going in hide u could have seen that no thief sits in a corner for ever waiting for some1 to pass by to 1 hit..

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Maybe adding CD to some skills and/or bringing exhaustion mechanic back once again.

    If a thief keeps using burst to fast starts generating exaution where thief energy bar becomes harder to gain tick and as less total.

    This or adding CD to skills.

    we 1 hit bro who cares about CD when u 1 hit :D!

    you also don't get it

    i dont wanna get it..

    me as thief i cant always win from some classes.. but most of the time i do win. from not because they are bad or im good because thief isnt like most of u guys think straight forward DPS beast..
    sometimes u just need count them dodges or lure em out from them or sometimes u just need to have a ton of patience etc..

    thiefs are far from straight forward DPS class that just goes in and hits and out again, ofcourse you have these people but these are also the people who die quite easy.
    the thiefs that farm you over and over again are probably the thiefs who have the patience or knownledge when to just completely wipe you off the map but they will probably do the same with any other given class and maybe even as thief without using stealth.

    the thing u need to understand is that stealth is not your problem like it or not u simply are getting outplayed and that isnt meant bad..
    im getting out played also i deal with it and accept it, im not the best fine with me i dont care aslong i have fun.

    some classes deal almost equal dmg to thiefs backstab from a range. why isnt that a problem, cus you can see them? but u cant get away from them u still die like a tool..

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:
    Every class has cheese specs and that's ok because the animations still remain visible so there is always counterplay. The problem still is the fact that thiefs can 1 shot with 1 skill out of stealth that isn't visible (no animations) so no counterplay. If they had to use 2 skills to 1 shot (assuming the first skill doesnt hit for 15k+) wich gives maybe 0.5 seconds or less time to counter, I would be ok with it because we atleast would HAVE an option to counter.

    But I get what amounts to basically one shot by mirages but that's fine because u play it right and tell urself some lame bias excuse why it's ok lol

    if you get 1 shotted by mesmer/mirage it's because you dont know what dodge means, if you played this game you would know mesmer burst needs 3+ skills to 1 shot wich means there is little time to counter BUT there is an option. thief can do it with 1 skill, that's a whole different story bro. Don't get me wrong mirage should get nerfed too.

    if u get 1 shotted as mirage u need learn how to dodge to break stun cus no other cc comes from thief that would 1 shot you.
    tbh with u theres not a single thief that one shots you. youre talking about deadeye well when u have a mark on ur head u know hes around and u can start moving your kitten quickly by using mount or stick to a blob.

    if ur gonna tell me u get 1 shotted by thief or daredevil then id suggest looking at your gear cus then ur probably geared to 1 bang people also and u cry when u get 1 shotted.
    i dont really understand why moi as thief or core ele never get these 1 shot moments by another thief... no im not saying its a l2p issue but for some reason some people get bullied over and over to cry on forum over a class whos probably among the gimpest classes when it comes to WvW overall gameplay maybe u should start thinking how i can prevent this different gear? dont run away from blob? start using mount when marked? start paying attention to actually see thief going in hide? i mean most of the time when a thief is going in hide u could have seen that no thief sits in a corner for ever waiting for some1 to pass by to 1 hit..

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Maybe adding CD to some skills and/or bringing exhaustion mechanic back once again.

    If a thief keeps using burst to fast starts generating exaution where thief energy bar becomes harder to gain tick and as less total.

    This or adding CD to skills.

    we 1 hit bro who cares about CD when u 1 hit :D!

    you also don't get it

    i dont wanna get it..

    me as thief i cant always win from some classes.. but most of the time i do win. from not because they are bad or im good because thief isnt like most of u guys think straight forward DPS beast..
    sometimes u just need count them dodges or lure em out from them or sometimes u just need to have a ton of patience etc..

    thiefs are far from straight forward DPS class that just goes in and hits and out again, ofcourse you have these people but these are also the people who die quite easy.
    the thiefs that farm you over and over again are probably the thiefs who have the patience or knownledge when to just completely wipe you off the map but they will probably do the same with any other given class and maybe even as thief without using stealth.

    the thing u need to understand is that stealth is not your problem like it or not u simply are getting outplayed and that isnt meant bad..
    im getting out played also i deal with it and accept it, im not the best fine with me i dont care aslong i have fun.

    some classes deal almost equal dmg to thiefs backstab from a range. why isnt that a problem, cus you can see them? but u cant get away from them u still die like a tool..

    It even more funny cuz OP plays mirage, probably the bandwaggon one shot power build thsts going around and thinks cuz it's a few skills done in the span of one from stealth it's fine but thieves version isn't lol.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @appelflap.8310 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:
    another one? i want this game to be fixed. i can go and play thief too in wvw but it's just too cheesy over there

    You're playing mirage, not exactly in position to talk about being cheesy :<
    Also I think you can't, because you prefer playing safer and easier mirage :D

    you don't get it

    Get it or not, you know what I said is true lmao.

  • Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

    Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

    If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.

    1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
    2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

    This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2020

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Stealth is fine. Weaver is fine. Everything is fine.
    Nerf necro

    ... again.

    Seriously though, games developers should stop putting stealth in their products. It's always OP and frustrating.

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Loffels.5934 said:
    Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

    Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

    If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.

    1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
    2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

    This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

    Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.
    Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

    Necro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

    Aoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

    Some classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

    Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

    There are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u need to open ur eyes.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2020

    @Svarty.8019 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Stealth is fine. Weaver is fine. Everything is fine.
    Nerf necro

    ... again.

    Seriously though, games developers should stop putting stealth in their products. It's always OP and frustrating.

    +1

    Tribute
    Guild Wars

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Loffels.5934 said:
    Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

    Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

    If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.

    1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
    2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

    This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

    Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.
    Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

    what if i dont play DH? Oh wait, it gets better below

    Necro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

    OH MY SCOURGE HAS A 4K HP BARRIER! OH LOOK, TIEF WAITS FOR THE BARRIER TO EXPIRE oh there goes my lifeforce oh there goes thief portin/stealthing away again, hm, maybe i should randomly dodge or recast F3---ooops, no lifeforce, gg. As for the "condi burst", it kinda seems like you play another game? Dont you know thief has many cleanses equipped? At least those who I fight, do. They Systematically abuse their class and they Kill From Behind.
    Wait. Maybe I dont play scourge cause it is THE worst roaming class? Yessir! I use reaper! Spintowi---thief ports, resets daily meal, daily skills, grabs a drink, my lifeforce is still low. Boomboom, byebye. Maybe, wait, I should play corenec, as it has the ONE reveal skill, namely shroud 5! OH THIEF GETS AWAY AND MY MOBILITY IS BAD---5 secs of reveal gone, byebye, nice meeting you, cd of skill is 25s. Nice to meet you

    Aoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

    OH YEA BABEY LEMME CAST THAT BIG OL SHADE OR THAT METEOR AND POP EVERY F SKILL-- uh i died, respawn

    Some classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

    Not all do, and thief can CONVENIENTLY port away with its many, many mobility skills.

    Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

    YAY REVEAL TRAP thief ports away, reveal expires, you have 0 supps, gg

    There are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u need to open ur eyes.

    Too bad open eyes dont reveal stealth, eh

    You are more biased with thief than a pharmaceutical company that finances studies about the efficiency of its own drugs. Stealth has NO downsides, NO tradeoffs.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Loffels.5934 said:
    Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

    Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

    If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.

    1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
    2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

    This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

    Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.
    Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

    what if i dont play DH? Oh wait, it gets better below

    Necro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

    OH MY SCOURGE HAS A 4K HP BARRIER! OH LOOK, TIEF WAITS FOR THE BARRIER TO EXPIRE oh there goes my lifeforce oh there goes thief portin/stealthing away again, hm, maybe i should randomly dodge or recast F3---ooops, no lifeforce, gg. As for the "condi burst", it kinda seems like you play another game? Dont you know thief has many cleanses equipped? At least those who I fight, do. They Systematically abuse their class and they Kill From Behind.
    Wait. Maybe I dont play scourge cause it is THE worst roaming class? Yessir! I use reaper! Spintowi---thief ports, resets daily meal, daily skills, grabs a drink, my lifeforce is still low. Boomboom, byebye. Maybe, wait, I should play corenec, as it has the ONE reveal skill, namely shroud 5! OH THIEF GETS AWAY AND MY MOBILITY IS BAD---5 secs of reveal gone, byebye, nice meeting you, cd of skill is 25s. Nice to meet you

    Aoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

    OH YEA BABEY LEMME CAST THAT BIG OL SHADE OR THAT METEOR AND POP EVERY F SKILL-- uh i died, respawn

    Some classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

    Not all do, and thief can CONVENIENTLY port away with its many, many mobility skills.

    Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

    YAY REVEAL TRAP thief ports away, reveal expires, you have 0 supps, gg

    There are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u need to open ur eyes.

    Too bad open eyes dont reveal stealth, eh

    You are more biased with thief than a pharmaceutical company that finances studies about the efficiency of its own drugs. Stealth has NO downsides, NO tradeoffs.

    Yeah the scrapper negates 4000 damage of the 10 000 backstab so u hit a scrapper for 6000 backstab on its actual hp and it easily sustains it and reveals, a scrapper with barrier literally cant be one shot and can take a dps dp thief so long to down it to the point ur better off moving on and that's not good enough for u? So is the scrapper supposed to fair even better vs the thief? Lmao scourge and ele's same out come if their good. It's like u expect the thief to do low dps on a skill with the set up of stealth and back stab and not have a follow up dps as well? Are they supposed to just die to make u feel better?
    When I'm on warrior if a thief attempts to stealth back stab me or uses a build with tons of evades I call them a smart thief cuz if they tried trading blows with my warrior I'd consider them a bad not so smart thief seeing as yeah their hard to catch but when I do I double or triple talking them into downstate lol. Be no challenge if they went slippery so no I'm not biased as I play alot of classes often and because I play thief as well I kno their side of the country and how fast I go down if I get caught.
    It honestly feels like unless thief is zero challenge to fight people complain.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Loffels.5934 said:
    Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

    Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

    If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.

    1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
    2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

    This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

    Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.
    Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

    Necro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

    Aoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

    Some classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

    Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

    There are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u need to open ur eyes.

    Congrats he DH placed his traps on a tiny space in a huge WvWvW map
    He is standing there afraid , not moving . You can shoot him from afar and you wont get the healing activate , bacause you wont touch the trap

    What aegis ?
    I am sorry , but basilisc and Sweep arent unbrocable ?
    Backstab should behave like other games , you you get reveleaved when you miss the attack ... not try again after 2-3 sec...
    This is casual friendly

    Necro's,scrappers and ele's get barriers when they waste spells . If you see those ppl start precasting ...congrats they wont do to you damage next turn
    Scrapper , get a shield at 25% hp
    You deal 12k damage ...and he will have 4k hp + 4k shield . You can interupt his 0.5 sec cast heal and wait till his shield is done . He wont do enought damage in this period , and you can try a Heartseeker for 5,5-6k damage while you wait

    Aoe's and condition are so rampant ....if there was a thief trait ,that removed them ....https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Embrace + https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escapist's_Fortitude .... among other utilities spells + Rune sets

    Wvw has reveal traps ....... AHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAH you place a 3 sec cast time trap , in a huge map ?

    Wvw sniff .... AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH you see NON-stealth enemies on the minimap

    reveal areas .... its your problem if you got near a tier 2 keep-tower ... and even so its for 30 sec ... nodays keeps and castle are easily flipped because its was nerfed ...so not many have time to become tier 2

    Debunked in a every sistuation
    This is why the company should not listen to casuals about balance :P

    Hellsing Abridged.First5minsux. JapAudio: Soul Eater, Arpeggio of Blue Steel,Code Geass
    Seto no Hanayome(startfrom2ndep), Baka to Test,Pani Pon,He Is My Master(2nd) ,Azumanga Daioh
    Kamen no Maid Guy, Kenichi, Ouran Koukou,Yamato Nadeshiko, Rosario+Vampire(2nd)Haré+Guu(5th), AIR MASTER!!!

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2020

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Loffels.5934 said:
    Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

    Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

    If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.

    1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
    2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

    This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

    Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.
    Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

    Necro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

    Aoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

    Some classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

    Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

    There are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u need to open ur eyes.

    Congrats he DH placed his traps on a tiny space in a huge WvWvW map
    He is standing there afraid , not moving . You can shoot him from afar and you wont get the healing activate , bacause you wont touch the trap

    What aegis ?
    I am sorry , but basilisc and Sweep arent unbrocable ?
    Backstab should behave like other games , you you get reveleaved when you miss the attack ... not try again after 2-3 sec...
    This is casual friendly

    Necro's,scrappers and ele's get barriers when they waste spells . If you see those ppl start precasting ...congrats they wont do to you damage next turn
    Scrapper , get a shield at 25% hp
    You deal 12k damage ...and he will have 4k hp + 4k shield . You can interupt his 0.5 sec cast heal and wait till his shield is done . He wont do enought damage in this period , and you can try a Heartseeker for 5,5-6k damage while you wait

    Aoe's and condition are so rampant ....if there was a thief trait ,that removed them ....https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Embrace + https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escapist's_Fortitude .... among other utilities spells + Rune sets

    Wvw has reveal traps ....... AHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAH you place a 3 sec cast time trap , in a huge map ?

    Wvw sniff .... AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH you see NON-stealth enemies on the minimap

    reveal areas .... its your problem if you got near a tier 2 keep-tower ... and even so its for 30 sec ... nodays keeps and castle are easily flipped because its was nerfed ...so not many have time to become tier 2

    Debunked in a every sistuation
    This is why the company should not listen to casuals about balance :P

    Lol somebody is all buttthurt over losing to teefy's
    Maybe get gud casual :)

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kash.9213 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:
    Every class has cheese specs and that's ok because the animations still remain visible so there is always counterplay. The problem still is the fact that thiefs can 1 shot with 1 skill out of stealth that isn't visible (no animations) so no counterplay. If they had to use 2 skills to 1 shot (assuming the first skill doesnt hit for 15k+) wich gives maybe 0.5 seconds or less time to counter, I would be ok with it because we atleast would HAVE an option to counter.

    But I get what amounts to basically one shot by mirages but that's fine because u play it right and tell urself some lame bias excuse why it's ok lol

    if you get 1 shotted by mesmer/mirage it's because you dont know what dodge means, if you played this game you would know mesmer burst needs 3+ skills to 1 shot wich means there is little time to counter BUT there is an option. thief can do it with 1 skill, that's a whole different story bro. Don't get me wrong mirage should get nerfed too.

    This is rich.

    By the way if you still think landing a backstab on you only takes one skill like you just started playing yesterday at the least you can bring more than reskinning my point and stapling it to your mesmer.

    Backstab is literally one skill. What? You have to enter stealth and pop cooldowns before you push 1? Excuse me while I contact the E-sports league...

    You could have at least gone for the "but I only have 11k health!" defense. Cmon, man!

    I remember back in the day in WoW when PoM-Pyro was a thing. They nerfed that. Why? Because even though it was a free kill outside of this one ability, it had the power to instant-cast a 1-shot kill from max range once every 3 minutes.

    The moral of the story is that 1-shot kills (whether they are literally 1 button or a quick burst combo) are not desirable in PvP. It's not okay for thief even though they have 11k health. It's not okay for mesmer even though they have to build 3 clones. It's just not okay. Okay? LoL

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2020

    every non thief player is like..

    thief have 5 utilities to port around the map and 5 utilities to perma stealth and 5 utilities to cleanse all conditions xD

    let me see.. thief in most cases have shadowstep 1 port utility.. most thiefs use agility signet to cleanse 3 condi if needed (could use shadowstep to do it but meh) then thiefs have 2 utilities left over which u can randomly slot in..

    well in all ur cases its a 1 shot thief so i suppose he is using assassins signet then what we have left over? oh our baller elite spin to evade and port all over the map..

    quit whining i mean should i start?

    why cant i pop 2/3 skills at ones like fresh air ele? or like a mesmer? so i can like backstab and heart seeker in 0,1second also.
    why cant i pop barries like ele and necros?
    why cant i have kitten ton of heals on dodge and on skills?
    why cant i have some big kitten leaps like rangers?
    why cant my shortbow do 6k from 1200 range every hit?
    why cant i have some auto invuls and stabs popping on me?
    why cant i have aegis?
    why cant we have like a dodge then another dodge passive build in + CC breaker inside a dodge + remove a condi <-- lul mirage whining xD

    **> @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @appelflap.8310 said:
    Every class has cheese specs and that's ok because the animations still remain visible so there is always counterplay. The problem still is the fact that thiefs can 1 shot with 1 skill out of stealth that isn't visible (no animations) so no counterplay. If they had to use 2 skills to 1 shot (assuming the first skill doesnt hit for 15k+) wich gives maybe 0.5 seconds or less time to counter, I would be ok with it because we atleast would HAVE an option to counter.

    But I get what amounts to basically one shot by mirages but that's fine because u play it right and tell urself some lame bias excuse why it's ok lol

    if you get 1 shotted by mesmer/mirage it's because you dont know what dodge means, if you played this game you would know mesmer burst needs 3+ skills to 1 shot wich means there is little time to counter BUT there is an option. thief can do it with 1 skill, that's a whole different story bro. Don't get me wrong mirage should get nerfed too.

    This is rich.

    By the way if you still think landing a backstab on you only takes one skill like you just started playing yesterday at the least you can bring more than reskinning my point and stapling it to your mesmer.

    Backstab is literally one skill. What? You have to enter stealth and pop cooldowns before you push 1? Excuse me while I contact the E-sports league...

    You could have at least gone for the "but I only have 11k health!" defense. Cmon, man!

    I remember back in the day in WoW when PoM-Pyro was a thing. They nerfed that. Why? Because even though it was a free kill outside of this one ability, it had the power to instant-cast a 1-shot kill from max range once every 3 minutes.

    The moral of the story is that 1-shot kills (whether they are literally 1 button or a quick burst combo) are not desirable in PvP. It's not okay for thief even though they have 11k health. It's not okay for mesmer even though they have to build 3 clones. It's just not okay. Okay? LoL

    i have problems doing 1 shots on my daredevil and my core thief, yes here and there im doing them but these are on full zerk builds like me..
    so basically these people on full zerk wanna 1 or 2 hit other people but they do not accept when they get 1 shotted?
    Deadeye is a whole different kind of thing then a thief/daredevil. u guys are all complaining about Deadeye whos probably the only "thief" who can actually 1 bang you with a backstab cus i dont see the daredevil/thief doing this so easily as it used to be back in the day..

    i mean core times it was easier to play thief then nowadays we hit like wet noodles when u look at all the other classes.
    sure or spike dmg might be higher but if u look at the full picture we are probably the class that could take a boost.
    u have classes who can sustain can dps can heal can do it all at bit lower dmg then a thief but in overall picture they shine far above thief.
    this what im trying to say all the time.

    one class might be good at 1 thing and it might irritate other players but in overall picture the class is horribad..

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Loffels.5934 said:
    Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

    Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

    If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.

    1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
    2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

    This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

    Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.
    Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

    Necro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

    Aoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

    Some classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

    Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

    There are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u need to open ur eyes.

    Congrats he DH placed his traps on a tiny space in a huge WvWvW map
    He is standing there afraid , not moving . You can shoot him from afar and you wont get the healing activate , bacause you wont touch the trap

    What aegis ?
    I am sorry , but basilisc and Sweep arent unbrocable ?
    Backstab should behave like other games , you you get reveleaved when you miss the attack ... not try again after 2-3 sec...
    This is casual friendly

    Necro's,scrappers and ele's get barriers when they waste spells . If you see those ppl start precasting ...congrats they wont do to you damage next turn
    Scrapper , get a shield at 25% hp
    You deal 12k damage ...and he will have 4k hp + 4k shield . You can interupt his 0.5 sec cast heal and wait till his shield is done . He wont do enought damage in this period , and you can try a Heartseeker for 5,5-6k damage while you wait

    Aoe's and condition are so rampant ....if there was a thief trait ,that removed them ....https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Embrace + https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escapist's_Fortitude .... among other utilities spells + Rune sets

    Wvw has reveal traps ....... AHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAH you place a 3 sec cast time trap , in a huge map ?

    Wvw sniff .... AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH you see NON-stealth enemies on the minimap

    reveal areas .... its your problem if you got near a tier 2 keep-tower ... and even so its for 30 sec ... nodays keeps and castle are easily flipped because its was nerfed ...so not many have time to become tier 2

    Debunked in a every sistuation
    This is why the company should not listen to casuals about balance :P

    Lol somebody is all buttthurt over losing to teefy's
    Maybe get gud casual :)

    HuH , you asked the mods to delete the thread of deleting gw2 because you fed up with things and imbalances and that your girlfriend will throw the pc on you , seeing how frustrate you where :P
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/94757/deleting-gw2

    You little cheaky casual :P

    Hellsing Abridged.First5minsux. JapAudio: Soul Eater, Arpeggio of Blue Steel,Code Geass
    Seto no Hanayome(startfrom2ndep), Baka to Test,Pani Pon,He Is My Master(2nd) ,Azumanga Daioh
    Kamen no Maid Guy, Kenichi, Ouran Koukou,Yamato Nadeshiko, Rosario+Vampire(2nd)Haré+Guu(5th), AIR MASTER!!!

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    And? Seems like u got some obsessive vendetta against me following me around trying to ignite what I guess is an argument? This is like the 5th or more times uve brought up that I got frustrated and quit, why? Who cares? I tried uninstalling but threw a error at the time and in the end still play here and there but still frequent the forums to pass time at work, why is that a big deal to u? Are u a child or an adult with seriously nothing better to do cuz if so I'm dry for u.
    Also 90 percent of my post are defending thief unlike u and others who's history would show 90% are calling for nerfs on other classes(usually directed at a set few) over and over and over like a broken record all while defending their usually as OP class as fine lol. There's a big difference posting a lot to defend a class and only here and there calling a few builds op on other classes than constantly squawking about certain classes and their mechanics as being OP like people didnt hear u the first 100 times :)

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    And? Seems like u got some obsessive vendetta against me following me around trying to ignite what I guess is an argument? This is like the 5th or more times uve brought up that I got frustrated and quit, why? Who cares? I tried uninstalling but threw a error at the time and in the end still play here and there but still frequent the forums to pass time at work, why is that a big deal to u? Are u a child or an adult with seriously nothing better to do cuz if so I'm dry for u.
    Also 90 percent of my post are defending thief unlike u and others who's history would show 90% are calling for nerfs on other classes(usually directed at a set few) over and over and over like a broken record all while defending their usually as OP class as fine lol. There's a big difference posting a lot to defend a class and only here and there calling a few builds op on other classes than constantly squawking about certain classes and their mechanics as being OP like people didnt hear u the first 100 times :)

    I encourage everyone not to attempt to harass others. Thank You!

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    And? Seems like u got some obsessive vendetta against me following me around trying to ignite what I guess is an argument? This is like the 5th or more times uve brought up that I got frustrated and quit, why? Who cares? I tried uninstalling but threw a error at the time and in the end still play here and there but still frequent the forums to pass time at work, why is that a big deal to u? Are u a child or an adult with seriously nothing better to do cuz if so I'm dry for u.
    Also 90 percent of my post are defending thief unlike u and others who's history would show 90% are calling for nerfs on other classes(usually directed at a set few) over and over and over like a broken record all while defending their usually as OP class as fine lol. There's a big difference posting a lot to defend a class and only here and there calling a few builds op on other classes than constantly squawking about certain classes and their mechanics as being OP like people didnt hear u the first 100 times :)

    I told you many times dont try to be my friends saying : ''other ppl are defending their broken specs'' , so i must prove to them how foolish they are .
    Any time Mesmers + Eles + Warriors players said that their class need skill to play and you respont to them , sayings thats a ''lie'' i havent commented you on that .

    Every time i comment you you , is some kitten formula you are doing in the forums :
    a)WvWvW threads = goes into a thread saying that Thief need burst , because its his archetype
    b) Evades frames because its a rogue
    c) PvP forums = stealth because rogue archetype ... and its useless in pvp matches
    d) mobility its archetype
    e) it need condition removal on evade ... but its hard to use because it doesnt work if the enemy dont attack
    f) THERES HUGE AMOUNT OF AOES WITH CONDITIONS IN THE GROUND .... immagine if we gave condition removal on evade on Thieves....

    Different things in different threads , just like the thief 2013-2015 community
    You hate powercreep
    You tell me all the time to suck it up , and that the company wont change a thing
    Tell other ppl , that you class is fine
    When cornered you say that you wants things to be nerfed and any change is welcomed ..... but firstly other thngs rather than your class , must be nerfed first

    Normaly i would tell you the same thing as the other people , to hug the powercreep and reject it .
    Something that the Thief population did in 2013 in the Thief Mega Thread ... and then whined when Necro got Drumfire (4 sec burn -3200 total damage every 10 sec) in 2014 and Warriors got the mobility as long he has Meele weapons + Buff to its survibility .

    But based on the documented analysis based on my Thesis on Harvard and Yale and my magical Fortune Ball and my 10 years expiriance as a Healers supporting mouth breathers , when other game will be released you you will a leghty post , that the games is doomed for listeing to the casuals and an other Thief will take your place is 2 years saying the same things all over again :P

    (something that the pros did , when the first 2 tournaments had an age restriction , and area restriction .
    If where an Egypt Mesmer , you couldnt play with a US ele + Germany Enginner ...making a leghty posts that the games dont have the infostructure of LoL ...)

    Hellsing Abridged.First5minsux. JapAudio: Soul Eater, Arpeggio of Blue Steel,Code Geass
    Seto no Hanayome(startfrom2ndep), Baka to Test,Pani Pon,He Is My Master(2nd) ,Azumanga Daioh
    Kamen no Maid Guy, Kenichi, Ouran Koukou,Yamato Nadeshiko, Rosario+Vampire(2nd)Haré+Guu(5th), AIR MASTER!!!

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    And? Seems like u got some obsessive vendetta against me following me around trying to ignite what I guess is an argument? This is like the 5th or more times uve brought up that I got frustrated and quit, why? Who cares? I tried uninstalling but threw a error at the time and in the end still play here and there but still frequent the forums to pass time at work, why is that a big deal to u? Are u a child or an adult with seriously nothing better to do cuz if so I'm dry for u.
    Also 90 percent of my post are defending thief unlike u and others who's history would show 90% are calling for nerfs on other classes(usually directed at a set few) over and over and over like a broken record all while defending their usually as OP class as fine lol. There's a big difference posting a lot to defend a class and only here and there calling a few builds op on other classes than constantly squawking about certain classes and their mechanics as being OP like people didnt hear u the first 100 times :)

    I told you many times dont try to be my friends saying : ''other ppl are defending their broken specs'' , so i must prove to them how foolish they are .
    Any time Mesmers + Eles + Warriors players said that their class need skill to play and you respont to them , sayings thats a ''lie'' i havent commented you on that .

    Every time i comment you you , is some kitten formula you are doing in the forums :
    a)WvWvW threads = goes into a thread saying that Thief need burst , because its his archetype
    b) Evades frames because its a rogue
    c) PvP forums = stealth because rogue archetype ... and its useless in pvp matches
    d) mobility its archetype
    e) it need condition removal on evade ... but its hard to use because it doesnt work if the enemy dont attack
    f) THERES HUGE AMOUNT OF AOES WITH CONDITIONS IN THE GROUND .... immagine if we gave condition removal on evade on Thieves....

    Different things in different threads , just like the thief 2013-2015 community
    You hate powercreep
    You tell me all the time to suck it up , and that the company wont change a thing
    Tell other ppl , that you class is fine
    When cornered you say that you wants things to be nerfed and any change is welcomed ..... but firstly other thngs rather than your class , must be nerfed first

    Normaly i would tell you the same thing as the other people , to hug the powercreep and reject it .
    Something that the Thief population did in 2013 in the Thief Mega Thread ... and then whined when Necro got Drumfire (4 sec burn -3200 total damage every 10 sec) in 2014 and Warriors got the mobility as long he has Meele weapons + Buff to its survibility .

    But based on the documented analysis based on my Thesis on Harvard and Yale and my magical Fortune Ball and my 10 years expiriance as a Healers supporting mouth breathers , when other game will be released you you will a leghty post , that the games is doomed for listeing to the casuals and an other Thief will take your place is 2 years saying the same things all over again :P

    honestly didnt read a word of ur wall but I'm sure it's a cool story non the less :)

  • Jack Daniels
    True Story :P

    Hellsing Abridged.First5minsux. JapAudio: Soul Eater, Arpeggio of Blue Steel,Code Geass
    Seto no Hanayome(startfrom2ndep), Baka to Test,Pani Pon,He Is My Master(2nd) ,Azumanga Daioh
    Kamen no Maid Guy, Kenichi, Ouran Koukou,Yamato Nadeshiko, Rosario+Vampire(2nd)Haré+Guu(5th), AIR MASTER!!!

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2020

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    And? Seems like u got some obsessive vendetta against me following me around trying to ignite what I guess is an argument? This is like the 5th or more times uve brought up that I got frustrated and quit, why? Who cares? I tried uninstalling but threw a error at the time and in the end still play here and there but still frequent the forums to pass time at work, why is that a big deal to u? Are u a child or an adult with seriously nothing better to do cuz if so I'm dry for u.
    Also 90 percent of my post are defending thief unlike u and others who's history would show 90% are calling for nerfs on other classes(usually directed at a set few) over and over and over like a broken record all while defending their usually as OP class as fine lol. There's a big difference posting a lot to defend a class and only here and there calling a few builds op on other classes than constantly squawking about certain classes and their mechanics as being OP like people didnt hear u the first 100 times :)

    I told you many times dont try to be my friends saying : ''other ppl are defending their broken specs'' , so i must prove to them how foolish they are .
    Any time Mesmers + Eles + Warriors players said that their class need skill to play and you respont to them , sayings thats a ''lie'' i havent commented you on that .

    Every time i comment you you , is some kitten formula you are doing in the forums :
    a)WvWvW threads = goes into a thread saying that Thief need burst , because its his archetype
    b) Evades frames because its a rogue
    c) PvP forums = stealth because rogue archetype ... and its useless in pvp matches
    d) mobility its archetype
    e) it need condition removal on evade ... but its hard to use because it doesnt work if the enemy dont attack
    f) THERES HUGE AMOUNT OF AOES WITH CONDITIONS IN THE GROUND .... immagine if we gave condition removal on evade on Thieves....

    Different things in different threads , just like the thief 2013-2015 community
    You hate powercreep
    You tell me all the time to suck it up , and that the company wont change a thing
    Tell other ppl , that you class is fine
    When cornered you say that you wants things to be nerfed and any change is welcomed ..... but firstly other thngs rather than your class , must be nerfed first

    Normaly i would tell you the same thing as the other people , to hug the powercreep and reject it .
    Something that the Thief population did in 2013 in the Thief Mega Thread ... and then whined when Necro got Drumfire (4 sec burn -3200 total damage every 10 sec) in 2014 and Warriors got the mobility as long he has Meele weapons + Buff to its survibility .

    But based on the documented analysis based on my Thesis on Harvard and Yale and my magical Fortune Ball and my 10 years expiriance as a Healers supporting mouth breathers , when other game will be released you you will a leghty post , that the games is doomed for listeing to the casuals and an other Thief will take your place is 2 years saying the same things all over again :P

    No offense, but what exactly is your point? It's a forum, everyone is biased, and most people that main a class can see problems with more clarity than people that don't. It's a fact that thief is built around evades and stealth. That's why a thief that can't evade or can't stealth dies faster than virtually anything else in the game. The state of stealth is also intended by the devs, otherwise it wouldn't exist. This is also a clear fact. It's fine if you disagree, I'd probably disagree with your perception of your favoured class, but try to have enough class to attack the argument and not the person, ok? :)

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2020

    Trust me he is not foolish , he know how to change the converation till the victim is euxasted from the circular conversation .
    And in the end , he makes an agreement that the Company sux for creating this powercreep ... and then moves to the next victim .

    And theres people that enjoy these kind of confrontations
    So... we are destined by fate to counter each other ....in the sunset ....naked ? :P

    Hellsing Abridged.First5minsux. JapAudio: Soul Eater, Arpeggio of Blue Steel,Code Geass
    Seto no Hanayome(startfrom2ndep), Baka to Test,Pani Pon,He Is My Master(2nd) ,Azumanga Daioh
    Kamen no Maid Guy, Kenichi, Ouran Koukou,Yamato Nadeshiko, Rosario+Vampire(2nd)Haré+Guu(5th), AIR MASTER!!!

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:
    Trust me he is not foolish , he know how to change the converation till the victim is euxasted from the circular conversation .
    And in the end , he makes an agreement that the Company sux for creating this powercreep ... and then moves to the next victim .

    And theres people that enjoy these kind of confrontations
    So... we are destined by fate to counter each other ....in the sunset ....naked ? :P

    You make this sound like a romance xD

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    +1

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 18, 2020

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Loffels.5934 said:
    Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

    Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

    If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.

    1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
    2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

    This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

    Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.
    Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

    Necro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

    Aoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

    Some classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

    Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

    There are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u need to open ur eyes.

    Congrats he DH placed his traps on a tiny space in a huge WvWvW map
    He is standing there afraid , not moving . You can shoot him from afar and you wont get the healing activate , bacause you wont touch the trap

    What aegis ?
    I am sorry , but basilisc and Sweep arent unbrocable ?
    Backstab should behave like other games , you you get reveleaved when you miss the attack ... not try again after 2-3 sec...
    This is casual friendly

    Necro's,scrappers and ele's get barriers when they waste spells . If you see those ppl start precasting ...congrats they wont do to you damage next turn
    Scrapper , get a shield at 25% hp
    You deal 12k damage ...and he will have 4k hp + 4k shield . You can interupt his 0.5 sec cast heal and wait till his shield is done . He wont do enought damage in this period , and you can try a Heartseeker for 5,5-6k damage while you wait

    Aoe's and condition are so rampant ....if there was a thief trait ,that removed them ....https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Embrace + https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escapist's_Fortitude .... among other utilities spells + Rune sets

    Wvw has reveal traps ....... AHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAH you place a 3 sec cast time trap , in a huge map ?

    Wvw sniff .... AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH you see NON-stealth enemies on the minimap

    reveal areas .... its your problem if you got near a tier 2 keep-tower ... and even so its for 30 sec ... nodays keeps and castle are easily flipped because its was nerfed ...so not many have time to become tier 2

    Debunked in a every sistuation
    This is why the company should not listen to casuals about balance :P

    What about the rest of the dh kit? Traps are annoying to theif, biggest pressure dh is that they can keep pace with theif IN COMBAT (not running away) and longbow dh is 1 of the worst mu for theif

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    +1

    I watched two amazing mesmers fighting in our guild hall one time and it was almost the same as that, but with occasional clone bursts.

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • Slick.7164Slick.7164 Member ✭✭✭

    Stealth is cheapest, idiot way of making up for lack of creativity. It will be here until the end

  • Should be low risk low reward. Needs balance nerf to the ground, max stealth uptime should be 30-45sec per 60 sec. If i stop playing its because they failed to balance this kitten

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2020

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • You posted 2 5 years old video's and one pve video. And what's the point of your post? That class designed for stealth can stealth and troll people? And how this video's referring to present time? In last video author compares different classes in solo run's. And he said that in description. All classes can solo.
    You yelling about half-truth and toxicity. But it's you the one who distort facts for own benefit and spread toxicity.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Loke.1429 said:
    Should be low risk low reward. Needs balance nerf to the ground, max stealth uptime should be 30-45sec per 60 sec. If i stop playing its because they failed to balance this kitten

    @Loke.1429 said:
    Should be low risk low reward. Needs balance nerf to the ground, max stealth uptime should be 30-45sec per 60 sec. If i stop playing its because they failed to balance this kitten

    I mean, currently in combat its high risk low reward, while out of combat its low risk, high reward. The problem is how do you make out of combat stealth be less of a problem without removing it entirely.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2020

    @appelflap.8310 said:
    Hi anet it's time for you guys to change stealth, i'm tired of getting 1 shotted by thiefs in wvw just because i can't dodge what i can't see. Im talking about thiefs literally waiting for ppl to come by and backstab them for 15-18k on daredevil. Mesmers can stealth and 1 shot too but you can see the burst damage coming if the mesmer is in stealth since they need clones up and mirrorblade animation is visible even when the mesmer is stealth. My point is that mesmers have to use 3+ skills to even 1 shot wich gives space for counterplay since you can see burst coming from stealth, thief only needs 1 skill for the 1 shot and you can't even see the burst coming from stealth. Ofcourse other classes can go stealth too but they can't 1 shot with 1 skill that isn't even visible.

    So can you just change this, look at other MMO's if you're clueless but this is just not fun if there is no counterplay to it. Either make thief backstab visible when they're stealth so ppl can actually counter them or change stealth, like give ppl in stealth damage over time or idk

    Thief needs, steal, backstab and 2 signets for the oneshot which is 4 skills lol.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @appelflap.8310 said:

    @Junkpile.7439 said:
    Funny part is that thief doesn't even need stealth. It's not like you can hit him even if you see him.

    I know right, but that's another topic. stealth is the real problem

    Said by Mesmer.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @appelflap.8310 said:
    another one? i want this game to be fixed. i can go and play thief too in wvw but it's just too cheesy over there

    Then do it. All the people that keep saying "I can go an do it too!" usually never actually do it. Go and play it if it's so strong.

  • Stealth has been stupid since launch and it will remain to be stupid and unfun to play against. There’s a reason why people have constantly complained about thieves and Mesmers. Damage/stealth/mobility, pick one

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2020

    @Mcrocha.3891 said:
    Stealth has been stupid since launch and it will remain to be stupid and unfun to play against. There’s a reason why people have constantly complained about thieves and Mesmers. Damage/stealth/mobility, pick one

    If "people are complaining about it" is such a definitive argument for removing something, then I can only assume you're equally eager about removing 90% of the game.

  • @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Mcrocha.3891 said:
    Stealth has been stupid since launch and it will remain to be stupid and unfun to play against. There’s a reason why people have constantly complained about thieves and Mesmers. Damage/stealth/mobility, pick one

    If "people are complaining about it" is such a definitive argument for removing something, then I can only assume you're equally eager about removing 90% of the game.

    Nope, just the mechanic that people have constantly complained about since launch and which has no place in a competitive game mode

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mcrocha.3891 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Mcrocha.3891 said:
    Stealth has been stupid since launch and it will remain to be stupid and unfun to play against. There’s a reason why people have constantly complained about thieves and Mesmers. Damage/stealth/mobility, pick one

    If "people are complaining about it" is such a definitive argument for removing something, then I can only assume you're equally eager about removing 90% of the game.

    Nope, just the mechanic that people have constantly complained about since launch and which has no place in a competitive game mode

    That's a great opinion, I disagree though.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why do you even bother complaining about "today" when everything will be different in 2 days?
    The game is filled with broken mechanics anyway. When your favorite profession have one, you just fight hard to keep it, when the professions that counter yours have it's own you fight hard for it to be removed from the game. Isn't it a bit hypocrite?