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Balance Update Update - PvP


Cal Cohen.2358

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Everyone blames anet for nerfing skills/traits to the point their not chosen afterwards and complains about half of the skills/traits on every class being unviable yet the community is the first to ask for more nerfs before the original nerfs have even gone through with obvious intentions to make the slill/trait unviable lol it's like u complain about thing u cause lol. I gues it's also the teams fault for listening and actually implementing the changes.Smoke screen at 45 sec already have most thiefs moving on from the skill and still more want it nerfed harder so its thrown into the already large pit of unused skilks/traits and utilities. Why not see how it was at 35 than if cd needed increase run it at 40 and so on instead of just nuking it. Why?Cuz I don't like it delete it mentality that's spread throughout this community.I say to the team nerf it more and continue listening to these players, its ur game to ruin :)

Funny statement considering your posts about Soulbeast and Mirage. You don't like the delete mentality in this forum? Seems as long as it is not Thief or Warrior then deleting skills and whole elites from the game is not your problem. Hypocrisies at its best ones again.

Ummm cuz I think the one pet in combat is a fair trade off? And I have no issues with mirage it's how the players that play it conduct themselves on the forums that I have issues with. Every single thread that had to do with nerfing or improving a skill on any class other then theirs has them rallying in it asking for nerfs of why the skills etc is fine and doesn't need love even tho they don't even play or like the class, why? Is no one but mesmers allowed to post about improvements to their class? Are every class skill/traits and utilities fine except for mesmers? Their always the first to want another class gutted especially if it's a thief post and gets old.U can bring up my past post agreeing with some changes anets brought about and a few outliers here and there but 90% of my post are defending classes vs bias hyperbole. I dont make it a point to join every mesmer thread where their asking for improvements or in any type of discussion to simply tell the players their class is fine and op and needs nerfs like some others on here.Man vendetta's against classes are real and so rampant in this community.It's no real surprise by ur post pic alone I knew it be u bravan as ur only one of maybe 15 posters left even posting in pvp forums, definitely no surprise this games community is tanking so fast lmao.Unfortunately this community as small as it is drives it's own players away.For the record I doubt very many players actually think the mirage losing a dodge was called for but don't voice it cuz all the times they've seen mesmers players asking for gutting nerfs to their class so its hard to throw sympathy towards the mesmer players.Yeah if anet wanted to tone down mirages high evasiveness there are better ways that don't out right cripple the class but few will stand up to the change due to the fact it's usually a mesmer player that's first to ask for their class to be gutted.

few will stand to it becouse nobody gives a crap, and you and all the others are as biased as anyone else. ALL of you are.I dont see anyone posting that chrono was getting... chronomancered :D -> only mesmersI dont see post saying -50 end on mirage is bad bad thing, -> only mesmersI dont see peeps complaining that -1 pet is stupid -> only rangersI dont see people complainin about druid nerfs -> only memesMeanwhile there are people complaining that " guard " is allllways neeeerfed, poor guard getting its wrist slapped.And how its the end of the world that first tick of the trap deals no damage.-50 endurance is not only not gonna "balance" anything but also works against entire idea of the spec.Its like making druid deal the most damage, having DH as a support, berserker as a tank or reaper as healer.Everyone just holds their carrot and gets happy that its not their carrot that gets nibbled on.bravan is at least trying to understand and look at the bigger picture and I can respect him for that.What I cant respect is you making 16 lines post basicly saying nobody likes mesmer so take it like a champ and shut up.we need more guys like bravan here and less people like you

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:This is honestly just getting silly at this point.Whats done is done at this point the patch is likely days away no point in going back and forth now just let it happenAdapt or get erased and be salty till you learn to adapt.

Totally agree, adapt like players who whine on mesmer every patch (and who aren't salty at all), who end to -50% output gut and trait removal on the spec they want to easy win against.Seems spamming nerf thread on PvP forum work better than class representation.

I dont even care at this point despite the thief nerfs its still going hard counter mesmers and several other professions by a mile and it will take far more nerfs than this to undo that. Eventually people will realize they are being bais while calling others bais.

When non thief mains start calling out certain complainers (which is already happening) in large enough numbers the complainers will either stop ore cry harder but be ignored as they are out weighted by the other portions of the community who see it for what it really is. Hating 1 profession cause it hard counters what you like to play.

Again the patch is likely days away if you play a build that hard carries and you have not started to practice without the tools that are being either heavily nerfed or removed thats a personal problem. Ive been playing without foot in the grave and trying not to use doom while stunned etc. for a while now even in my off meta fun builds that actually did use/ abuse those things. IF you cant learn to adapt its no ones fault but your own. Im not going to demand someone else be nerfed more because im unahppy with some changes my build or main profession got while trying to compare apples to oranges to determine how much more someone else should be nerfed.

Learn to play without IH or only using 1 dodge or dont and just get erased.... Im tired of goign back and forth with unreasonable people who are are unhappy and point the finger at anyone who seems remotely happy with their main professions even if they are being nerfed. The number of post some obvious mesmer and ranger/soul beast players have made since the notes were released is insane.

Reality is most of the complaints at this point are people who are unhappy and dont want anyone else to be more happy than they are with other builds / professions and so they are demanding more nerfs against specific things.

I'd give u a standing ovation and clap if I could right now lol.Ur a necro main which thief counters yet this post, maybe a few will follow suit but I doubt it.My thought is don't we want people to play along side with? Is increased bot population and lower player population what we want?Isn't the best scenario being the population increasing in pvp modes?1- if u really feel like a skills broken or overperforming than ask for shaves to it not the gutting of it and ask the team to adjust from there that way both parties are happy cuz the skill still remains useable.

2- remember to look to ur class before calling a class or skill op and think if it's a situation where it's a natural counter to ur class or maybe something that ur class is missing or needs love on. Sometimes it's a issue with ur class and not that the other class is OP.

3- discuss in ur class threads different strategies that have been successful vs problem builds and also bring up concerns of what ur class is lacking which could result in some skills seeming OP.

Don't join threads of classes u hate and dont even play to tell the players that actually play the class and use the skills in question that the skills are fine and need no changes as how would u kno not even playing the class or much? Lol

Dont go out of ur way to try and get a class destroyed out of spite cuz its ur hard counter cuz that won't help u and certainly won't help the game in any way.If u dont play the class or have little experience on using it who are u to say what skills are fine and what ones aren't? Save that for the classes u actually play.Anyway could go on but it's no surprise the pvp forum has basically the same few posters left these days and gets lower each year. Its unfortunate that there's very little real discussions going on these days past certain classes asking for their counters to be deleted.

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I didnt bother to read both ur reply's to be honest guys cuz I could care less about what's in them and I'm sure I have an idea anyway cuz it's always the same round and round. Nerfs to my class are unfair and needs buffs and gut my hard counters their op and so forth on and on.Whatever happens in patch and in future patches happens and I'm gonna focus on my own few classes and how to improve on them and not on trying to spitefully ruin any spec I have troubles with. As I said 90% or more of my post are defending one of my classes from silly bias crys and not me trying to get classes I don't play nuked just cuz I don't like them.Soulbeast is my 3rd most played class still more playtime than warrior and I agreed with one pet trade off and my reasons why but I did not spam ranger threads or balance threads to say so. I also don't think mirage should have lost a dodge but due to the spite fullness of some mesmer players I could care less but still aside from jokes don't spam their threads or balance threads spamming for their gutting. Gotten ridiculous from a few on here the amount they do so.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:This is honestly just getting silly at this point.Whats done is done at this point the patch is likely days away no point in going back and forth now just let it happenAdapt or get erased and be salty till you learn to adapt.

Totally agree, adapt like players who whine on mesmer every patch (and who aren't salty at all), who end to -50% output gut and trait removal on the spec they want to easy win against.Seems spamming nerf thread on PvP forum work better than class representation.

I dont even care at this point despite the thief nerfs its still going hard counter mesmers and several other professions by a mile and it will take far more nerfs than this to undo that. Eventually people will realize they are being bais while calling others bais.

When non thief mains start calling out certain complainers (which is already happening) in large enough numbers the complainers will either stop ore cry harder but be ignored as they are out weighted by the other portions of the community who see it for what it really is. Hating 1 profession cause it hard counters what you like to play.

Again the patch is likely days away if you play a build that hard carries and you have not started to practice without the tools that are being either heavily nerfed or removed thats a personal problem. Ive been playing without foot in the grave and trying not to use doom while stunned etc. for a while now even in my off meta fun builds that actually did use/ abuse those things. IF you cant learn to adapt its no ones fault but your own. Im not going to demand someone else be nerfed more because im unahppy with some changes my build or main profession got while trying to compare apples to oranges to determine how much more someone else should be nerfed.

Learn to play without IH or only using 1 dodge or dont and just get erased.... Im tired of goign back and forth with unreasonable people who are are unhappy and point the finger at anyone who seems remotely happy with their main professions even if they are being nerfed. The number of post some obvious mesmer and ranger/soul beast players have made since the notes were released is insane.

Reality is most of the complaints at this point are people who are unhappy and dont want anyone else to be more happy than they are with other builds / professions and so they are demanding more nerfs against specific things.

I'd give u a standing ovation and clap if I could right now lol.Ur a necro main which thief counters yet this post, maybe a few will follow suit but I doubt it.My thought is don't we want people to play along side with? Is increased bot population and lower player population what we want?Isn't the best scenario being the population increasing in pvp modes?Because i accept that thief counters necro I doubt this will ever change and maybe it shouldnt. The only thing i dislike is stealth but i dislike it in general not just because thief just the base mechanic of stealth is well we already know... in needs of something..... and that applies to more that just thief haha... But really... so many things and builds counter necro to this day that its hard for me to really be upset with any one build / skill/ or profession for specifically eating necro because most of them have something that can (when used properly) shuts necro down pretty easily. I just want to be able to play necro without it being a boon balance tool or being limited and held to thematics and core game values (like being slow, having low mobility, slowing your foes instead of speeding yourself up ,etc) while the game continued to progress in a way makes those values more and more invalid. (which is why im happy anet is slowing everything down a bit personally)

1- if u really feel like a skills broken or overperforming than ask for shaves to it not the gutting of it and ask the team to adjust from there that way both parties are happy cuz the skill still remains useable.

This is fair and im not against it but there is a difference between saying something is over performing and just pointing at random things for execution is just annoying to see. Just in the thief example players went from saying the issue was pistolwhip to saying stealth will be an issue to saying leeching venoms was the issue to saying smokescreen was the issue. It starts to look more like counter targeting especially when the main poster of such things is suspected / known of being a mesmer main. IT really looks like directly targeting your hard counter at that point.

2- remember to look to ur class before calling a class or skill op and think if it's a situation where it's a natural counter to ur class or maybe something that ur class is missing or needs love on. Sometimes it's a issue with ur class and not that the other class is OP.

I think this varies from person to person and their perspective. Know im mostly talking about the last bit. For example some people my consider one class is under performing while others might consider the other 8 are over-performing based on where they think the game should be. Based on how anet went at these changes its fair to say that they thought the majority of things were over-performing. Which implies that the underpowered professions or elites were not the problem but the ones that were over-performing or performing extremely well were the problem after all in their eyes. Its a bit subjective.

3- discuss in ur class threads different strategies that have been successful vs problem builds and also bring up concerns of what ur class is lacking which could result in some skills seeming OP.

Very possible but the issue here is that people wont follow your next statement which makes this one dodgy if that makes any sense.

Don't join threads of classes u hate and dont even play to tell the players that actually play the class and use the skills in question that the skills are fine and need no changes as how would u kno not even playing the class or much? Lol

Unfortunately this is not a reasonable request because no one will not do this from time to time. For example I generally dont go looking into the thief thread or mesmer threads I generally stick to most recent discussions and if i see a interesting title i take a look and some times leave my opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to tell some one they can or cannot disagree with a certain thing is not a feasible or reasonable request to make.

Most people who communicate reasonably have played all or the majority of the professions enough to know how the skills work and what the skills do. While we dont have to agree if one skill is equal in power to another it does not mean just because i dont main a mesmer for example that i dont know how arcane thievery works and what it can do at its best and worst case situations. Generally playing all other professions from time to time is the quickest way to understand the very basics at the very least and is something every player should do from time to time to boost their skills even if you dont play it at the highest level. (which most people wont anyways)

It should be said though that one should be careful how they word things when they play something for the first time as sometimes its obvious by how they call out skills being op. Like for example purposes when someone thought well of power on necro pulsed stab and that necro players had no right to say they didnt have stability in their builds when in reality it does not do that.

Its also important to know how other people feel about certain things because as a main of any profession its hard to understand why people might be frustrated with your build or profession while playing that build or profession. If no one ever expressed their experience from different perspectives there would be no debate or point to really making the post in general. So its a good thing that mesmers speak on how they feel a but thief but at some point they have to understand its just a hard counter and its one of the few it has an they just need to accept it. Hard counters are needed in this game or one profession might reach a point where it just dominates over the majority of everything. We saw how firebrand picked up so much strength after anet removed scourge from solo q pvp by making it too risky to use because there was nothing for a while that could stop them from omega boon-ing.

Alot of the recent post though are just blunt targeting attempts to ruin specific professions. OR thats how it really looks once you start to read into them from the people who started those threads.

Dont go out of ur way to try and get a class destroyed out of spite cuz its ur hard counter cuz that won't help u and certainly won't help the game in any way.Facts i agree with this and i dont personally go around making nerf x or y threads myself.If u dont play the class or have little experience on using it who are u to say what skills are fine and what ones aren't? Save that for the classes u actually play.Again exp does not just come from playing a class but also fighting against it this is still important data and information to consider and for that reason i dont think its fair to say someone cant talk about a profession within reason just because they dont main or are not a pro with it. Its information certainly worth consideration. It can be hard to see how oppressive your build or profession may be if its all you play. I am not immune to this with necro it can be or rather still is hard for me to see why people say chill is still strong for example when im use to seeing people just jump/port/dash at me and ignore it all the time when i try to use it to keep them away.Anyway could go on but it's no surprise the pvp forum has basically the same few posters left these days and gets lower each year. Its unfortunate that there's very little real discussions going on these days past certain classes asking for their counters to be deleted.This is true in all honestly we all just want the things we love to be relevant which is fair.... for some people that can be just 1 profession for others its multiple professions.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:This is honestly just getting silly at this point.Whats done is done at this point the patch is likely days away no point in going back and forth now just let it happenAdapt or get erased and be salty till you learn to adapt.

Totally agree, adapt like players who whine on mesmer every patch (and who aren't salty at all), who end to -50% output gut and trait removal on the spec they want to easy win against.Seems spamming nerf thread on PvP forum work better than class representation.

I dont even care at this point despite the thief nerfs its still going hard counter mesmers and several other professions by a mile and it will take far more nerfs than this to undo that. Eventually people will realize they are being bais while calling others bais.

When non thief mains start calling out certain complainers (which is already happening) in large enough numbers the complainers will either stop ore cry harder but be ignored as they are out weighted by the other portions of the community who see it for what it really is. Hating 1 profession cause it hard counters what you like to play.

Again the patch is likely days away if you play a build that hard carries and you have not started to practice without the tools that are being either heavily nerfed or removed thats a personal problem. Ive been playing without foot in the grave and trying not to use doom while stunned etc. for a while now even in my off meta fun builds that actually did use/ abuse those things. IF you cant learn to adapt its no ones fault but your own. Im not going to demand someone else be nerfed more because im unahppy with some changes my build or main profession got while trying to compare apples to oranges to determine how much more someone else should be nerfed.

Learn to play without IH or only using 1 dodge or dont and just get erased.... Im tired of goign back and forth with unreasonable people who are are unhappy and point the finger at anyone who seems remotely happy with their main professions even if they are being nerfed. The number of post some obvious mesmer and ranger/soul beast players have made since the notes were released is insane.

Reality is most of the complaints at this point are people who are unhappy and dont want anyone else to be more happy than they are with other builds / professions and so they are demanding more nerfs against specific things.

I'd give u a standing ovation and clap if I could right now lol.Ur a necro main which thief counters yet this post, maybe a few will follow suit but I doubt it.My thought is don't we want people to play along side with? Is increased bot population and lower player population what we want?Isn't the best scenario being the population increasing in pvp modes?Because i accept that thief counters necro I doubt this will ever change and maybe it shouldnt. The only thing i dislike is stealth but i dislike it in general not just because thief just the base mechanic of stealth is well we already know... in needs of something..... and that applies to more that just thief haha... But really... so many things and builds counter necro to this day that its hard for me to really be upset with any one build / skill/ or profession for specifically eating necro because most of them have something that can (when used properly) shuts necro down pretty easily. I just want to be able to play necro without it being a boon balance tool or being limited and held to thematics and core game values (like being slow, having low mobility, slowing your foes instead of speeding yourself up ,etc) while the game continued to progress in a way makes those values more and more invalid. (which is why im happy anet is slowing everything down a bit personally)

1- if u really feel like a skills broken or overperforming than ask for shaves to it not the gutting of it and ask the team to adjust from there that way both parties are happy cuz the skill still remains useable.

This is fair and im not against it but there is a difference between saying something is over performing and just pointing at random things for execution is just annoying to see. Just in the thief example players went from saying the issue was pistolwhip to saying stealth will be an issue to saying leeching venoms was the issue to saying smokescreen was the issue. It starts to look more like counter targeting especially when the main poster of such things is suspected / known of being a mesmer main. IT really looks like directly targeting your hard counter at that point.

2- remember to look to ur class before calling a class or skill op and think if it's a situation where it's a natural counter to ur class or maybe something that ur class is missing or needs love on. Sometimes it's a issue with ur class and not that the other class is OP.

I think this varies from person to person and their perspective. Know im mostly talking about the last bit. For example some people my consider one class is under performing while others might consider the other 8 are over-performing based on where they think the game should be. Based on how anet went at these changes its fair to say that they thought the majority of things were over-performing. Which implies that the underpowered professions or elites were not the problem but the ones that were over-performing or performing extremely well were the problem after all in their eyes. Its a bit subjective.

3- discuss in ur class threads different strategies that have been successful vs problem builds and also bring up concerns of what ur class is lacking which could result in some skills seeming OP.

Very possible but the issue here is that people wont follow your next statement which makes this one dodgy if that makes any sense.

Don't join threads of classes u hate and dont even play to tell the players that actually play the class and use the skills in question that the skills are fine and need no changes as how would u kno not even playing the class or much? Lol

Unfortunately this is not a reasonable request because no one will not do this from time to time. For example I generally dont go looking into the thief thread or mesmer threads I generally stick to most recent discussions and if i see a interesting title i take a look and some times leave my opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to tell some one they can or cannot disagree with a certain thing is not a feasible or reasonable request to make.

Most people who communicate reasonably have played all or the majority of the professions enough to know how the skills work and what the skills do. While we dont have to agree if one skill is equal in power to another it does not mean just because i dont main a mesmer for example that i dont know how arcane thievery works and what it can do at its best and worst case situations. Generally playing all other professions from time to time is the quickest way to understand the very basics at the very least and is something every player should do from time to time to boost their skills even if you dont play it at the highest level. (which most people wont anyways)

It should be said though that one should be careful how they word things when they play something for the first time as sometimes its obvious by how they call out skills being op. Like for example purposes when someone thought well of power on necro pulsed stab and that necro players had no right to say they didnt have stability in their builds when in reality it does not do that.

Its also important to know how other people feel about certain things because as a main of any profession its hard to understand why people might be frustrated with your build or profession while playing that build or profession. If no one ever expressed their experience from different perspectives there would be no debate or point to really making the post in general. So its a good thing that mesmers speak on how they feel a but thief but at some point they have to understand its just a hard counter and its one of the few it has an they just need to accept it. Hard counters are needed in this game or one profession might reach a point where it just dominates over the majority of everything. We saw how firebrand picked up so much strength after anet removed scourge from solo q pvp by making it too risky to use because there was nothing for a while that could stop them from omega boon-ing.

Alot of the recent post though are just blunt targeting attempts to ruin specific professions. OR thats how it really looks once you start to read into them from the people who started those threads.

Dont go out of ur way to try and get a class destroyed out of spite cuz its ur hard counter cuz that won't help u and certainly won't help the game in any way.Facts i agree with this and i dont personally go around making nerf x or y threads myself.If u dont play the class or have little experience on using it who are u to say what skills are fine and what ones aren't? Save that for the classes u actually play.Again exp does not just come from playing a class but also fighting against it this is still important data and information to consider and for that reason i dont think its fair to say someone cant talk about a profession within reason just because they dont main or are not a pro with it. Its information certainly worth consideration. It can be hard to see how oppressive your build or profession may be if its all you play. I am not immune to this with necro it can be or rather still is hard for me to see why people say chill is still strong for example when im use to seeing people just jump/port/dash at me and ignore it all the time when i try to use it to keep them away.Anyway could go on but it's no surprise the pvp forum has basically the same few posters left these days and gets lower each year. Its unfortunate that there's very little real discussions going on these days past certain classes asking for their counters to be deleted.This is true in all honestly we all just want the things we love to be relevant which is fair.... for some people that can be just 1 profession for others its multiple professions.

Another factor is the specific build one might be running getting countered by another build I fear spawns a lot of op threads as well as simply being out played.For example the other night in arena a core necro was farming a few players and me a few timed while I was running spellbreaker. I even tried shake it off, featherfoot and heal signet and they destroyed me each time. Is necro op? No it's not they were just a way better player than me lol I've destroyed many core necro's in conquest and in arena but this son of a ...... was good and between fears and condis made easy work of me lol. I know for a fact it was a skill disparity as I've never I'm well aware a warrior should beat a necro in a lot of cases lolThst was my wn get gud issue.In my previous post I was more trying to say that if a bunch of players find a skill clunky or of little use don't as a non player of that class try and tell them otherwise. U are right sometimes when fighting another player u can get a good idea when a skill is over performing when facing it especially if uve thought on its counters and if there is non or to few etc.

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@bravan.3876 said:Yes Soulbeast can be played same as core Ranger when ignoring merging completely. That is no problem, as long as Anet makes sure, that a Soulbeast that ignores merging and plays like a core Ranger is weaker than a core Ranger. That is all that is needed to make it a trade off.

In theory, I agree it is possible for an elite spec to be balanced in this way, but it would be difficult.

Some elite mechanics were/are so powerful that they would be more powerful than a core spec even if the elite traitline had no other traits at all. Eg. Photon forge, even in its current nerfed + future nerfed form, would probably be worth playing even if Holosmith had no other elite traits. Engineer gaining what is effectively a free extra utility skill is such an upgrade for a class that so constrained by its ability to only slot 3 utility skills. (engi has no weapon swap, remember, so each utility constitutes a larger % of its damage or defense).

So how do you balance that?

  • make the F5 toolbelt skill that holosmith loses be extremely powerful to compensate? Maybe. It'd be weird though, effectively having two elite skills on core engi.
  • make core triple-traitline synergy so strong that it is a huge loss to drop a single core line for an elite one. It's hard to create this kind of triple-traitline synergy. I can't think of any examples that currently exist that are so much stronger than what the elite specs bring to the table. I imagine this is tricky for the devs and the triple-line synergy needs to be specifically designed, thus forcing fairly narrow builds.
  • nerf the elite mechanic itself to compensate for the additional flexibility offered by having the option to activate the elite mechanic.

I use Holo as an example here because I'm most familiar with Engi, but this applies to other elite specs that add optional functionality to a core spec (eg. Tempest, Soulbeast), rather than replace functionality from a core spec (eg. Reaper, DH).

Meh. I guess we'll see how it shakes out after the big balance patch.

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There is no place for rally in pvp. It results in black and white teamfights and it pushes already good classes and their roles to even be able to rezz which kills idea of unique roles. Revenant have good mobility on +1 and great cleave potential why you think its fair to give them ability to rezz aswell. Rally is killing depth of downed state because having kill and rezz happen in same time pushes idea of cleave too much and if you look at meta ull get my point. Aswell condis which should deal dmg over time (balanced state of condis) will always be outperformed by power builds which brings that utility to cleave faster and push rezz. If we want balanced way of condi builds than it will be role for rezz control and pressure over time while power will have role to cleave. Right now power builds are having all tools which is one of many reasons why rally should be deleted from pvp. There is no reward for downing players aswell and removing rally would win some time for your team so it won t feel like downing means nothing (you still can selfrez from downed with skill 4).

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@CroTiger.7819 said:I agree with you. Rally has nothing got to do with skillful playing. It hasnt anything got to do with playing at all. Its more a kind of a lottery winning that favours the team which is already in advantage as its got the first stomp. Theres a poll here in the forum about rally but people werent much interested yet

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@hotte in space.2158 said:

@CroTiger.7819 said:I agree with you. Rally has nothing got to do with skillful playing. It hasnt anything got to do with playing at all. Its more a kind of a lottery winning that favours the team which is already in advantage as its got the first stomp. Theres a poll here in the forum about rally but people werent much interested yet

Yes i also made discussion on removing rally from pvp and keeping downed state with rezz and stomp mechanics. Rally is carrying this meta and nobody see that because it isn t as obvious as some op skills. But if you see revs and thiefs having strong cleave and mobility thats where rally shines and push already great classes to even be able to rezz with cleave.

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@CroTiger.7819 said:Yes i also made discussion on removing rally from pvp and keeping downed state with rezz and stomp mechanics. Rally is carrying this meta and nobody see that because it isn t as obvious as some op skills. But if you see revs and thiefs having strong cleave and mobility thats where rally shines and push already great classes to even be able to rezz with cleave.

I guess its not exaggerated to say that 10% of all matches get decided by rally. That actually doesnt even fit to anets philosophy, as for years now devs nerfed passives to make PvP more skillful, but lucky-punch-rally remains untouched. Its a lack of consequence here because : more skillful = no rally

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@hotte in space.2158 said:

I guess its not exaggerated to say that 10% of all matches get decided by rally. That actually doesnt even fit to anets philosophy, as for years now devs nerfed passives to make PvP more skillful, but lucky-punch-rally remains untouched. Its a lack of consequence here because : more skillful = no rally

Yes 10% for sure and i would say even more like 20-30% of matches got carried by rally. Yes its lack of consequence because its invisible part of meta. Meta builds either have good cleave or they are not meta just because of rally and how important it is. Cleave would still be powerfull but it won t overperform if rally is deleted and won t be needed in build.

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