Jump to content
  • Sign Up

[Spoilers] I don't trust Jhavi


Stephen.6312

Recommended Posts

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:I guess nothing is as it seems ingame and Almorra probably burried herself for mechanical reasons so she wouldnt have to talk to the commander.

That's an even worse analogy than voltaicbore mentioning the skritt in Thunderhead Keep.

All you need to know is that there
is
a separation between mechanics and lore.

For example: Mechanically, there are seventeen Drakkars in the map. Lorewise, there's only one.

Mechanically, Jhavi is being used as the source for the whisper dialogue. Lorewise, the whispers come from Jormag via Drakkar.That wasnt an analogy. I know exactly what the separation between mechanics and lore is and that's why I consider the the lore reasoning flawed.

Again...
It's not a whisper
. That was my entire point, but you keep going back to that. Was it Drakkar that
whispered
in your mind through the dead fraenir and made him move? No. The dead really did move and it was
Jormag that talked through the corpse
... Face to face. Jormags own words. This means that lorewise, Jormag can talk through other people, not just whisper through Drakkar. Otherwise that mission makes no sense.

As a further note on that...
Crecia Stoneglow: So that comm from Almorra... Jormag was using.. Warmaster Jhavi Jorasdottir: Oh, Spirits...
. Which means that the coms you heard from Almorra wasnt whispers in your mind either, it really was Almorra. So why couldnt Jormag use Jhavi, albeit for a brief moment before she take control and tell you not to listen to the voice?

I think it's better to think of Drakkar similarly to a magic microphone.It's Jormag's voice and power it's just amplified through Drakkar to increase Jormag's range of influence without having to move itself.If Drakkar wasn't in the area then Jormag would probably have had to be physically closer in order to speak directly through the corpse of the fraenir.

Now with Drakkar dead it's possible we won't hear much from Jormag until we get closer to it, unless it has more than one champion acting as a mouthpiece.I dont see it as a magic microphone. I see two different things here:

Drakkar is the propaganda machine of Jormag. Basicly "give up" etc whispers across every soul nearby. The things Jormag cant be kitten to do herself.But Jormag can
also
take direct control and talk through others.

And in the event... both things happen. And that Jhavi may be closer to Jormag than we think. I dont know, maybe I'm just bad at explaining.

Jormag can certainly puppet and talk through dead people. Is Javi dead?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:I guess nothing is as it seems ingame and Almorra probably burried herself for mechanical reasons so she wouldnt have to talk to the commander.

That's an even worse analogy than voltaicbore mentioning the skritt in Thunderhead Keep.

All you need to know is that there
is
a separation between mechanics and lore.

For example: Mechanically, there are seventeen Drakkars in the map. Lorewise, there's only one.

Mechanically, Jhavi is being used as the source for the whisper dialogue. Lorewise, the whispers come from Jormag via Drakkar.That wasnt an analogy. I know exactly what the separation between mechanics and lore is and that's why I consider the the lore reasoning flawed.

Again...
It's not a whisper
. That was my entire point, but you keep going back to that. Was it Drakkar that
whispered
in your mind through the dead fraenir and made him move? No. The dead really did move and it was
Jormag that talked through the corpse
... Face to face. Jormags own words. This means that lorewise, Jormag can talk through other people, not just whisper through Drakkar. Otherwise that mission makes no sense.

As a further note on that...
Crecia Stoneglow: So that comm from Almorra... Jormag was using.. Warmaster Jhavi Jorasdottir: Oh, Spirits...
. Which means that the coms you heard from Almorra wasnt whispers in your mind either, it really was Almorra. So why couldnt Jormag use Jhavi, albeit for a brief moment before she take control and tell you not to listen to the voice?

I think it's better to think of Drakkar similarly to a magic microphone.It's Jormag's voice and power it's just amplified through Drakkar to increase Jormag's range of influence without having to move itself.If Drakkar wasn't in the area then Jormag would probably have had to be physically closer in order to speak directly through the corpse of the fraenir.

Now with Drakkar dead it's possible we won't hear much from Jormag until we get closer to it, unless it has more than one champion acting as a mouthpiece.

With Drakkar dead, Jormag could raise it back from the dead with death magic. Not out of the realm of possibilities for this entity to return.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jhavi as a character is still new to the game and rather shallow at the moment. She hasn't had the time in game to have her personality developed beyond her personal struggle to deal with Almorra's death, and her responsibilities to both the Vigil and her family legacy. She seems to have mutual respect with Marjory in the keep, but her relationships with other NPCs are an open question. Her initial contact with Braham was rather hostile and disrespectful, but has been fairly normal since. And no, she isn't dead and being puppeted by Jormag.

Mechanically, Konig is probably right. In the game's code, Jhavi is probably the "source" for Jormag's whispers so we can hear them throughout the meta. Lore wise, it's an open question how much Jormag is actually getting to her. One thing for sure: her obsession with Drakkar and Jormag almost certainly strengthens her connection to the whispers, whether she is actually obeying them or not. As the Kodan say, she should be careful, lest her voice become not her own...

As for Drakkar, it's best to think of Drakkar as a sort of radio repeater or relay station for Jormag's whispers. Jormag whispers to Drakkar, who in turn broadcasts the whispers to a much larger area. Stopping Drakkar greatly reduces Jormag's ability to whisper beyond its lair until Jormag regenerates Drakkar and the nightmare starts all over again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Jormag's control of corpses is new, and as seen with the Fraenir (and Almorra's call), their ability to naturally move corpses is not even remotely good.

In addition to that, note that except for once in Bitterfrost, we haven't seen any hybrid-powered Icebrood critters, unlike the hybrid Destroyers in Ember Bay for example. I get the impression that after what happened to Kralk, Jormag may be somewhat reluctant to use the powers of the dead dragons, or at least is more restrained with them, lest Jormag fall into madness the way Kralk did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Jormag's control of corpses is new, and as seen with the Fraenir (and Almorra's call), their ability to naturally move corpses is not even remotely good. Jhavi being a corpse controlled by Jormag is even more unlikely than Jhavi being a servant of Jormag.Jormag is only doing the voice though (obviously). Maybe full control over Jhavi isnt possible yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Maybe full control over Jhavi isnt possible yet.

As stated in the game, Jormag does not TAKE; Jormag CONVERTS. Jormag whispers seductively, and both grants and gains power from those who give in. As Jormag itself says in the Drakkar meta, "In the history of this world, I have never given anything to one who did not ask." Of course, the asking is very often under subconscious coercion from the whispers, but it's still not the same as other Elder Dragons outright corrupting their minions by raw power, assimilating them like the Borg. Jormag prefers a more subtle process, a deal with the devil in which the minion is at least a semi-willing participant, and of course the deal is rigged so that the house (Jormag) always wins...

Be that as it may, Jhavi hasn't given in yet. Though I strongly suspect that in some future part of the saga, at least one of our close friends will, and I'm not looking forward to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In a S2 episode Taimi's dialog balloon points towards Braham. Drakar coming out of Javi as a mechanical error wouldn't be impossible.

Amyway my theory is she and Braham are going to go off and have Norn babies together leaving the Commander alone again.

@Jimbru.6014 said:Be that as it may, Jhavi hasn't given in yet. Though I strongly suspect that in some future part of the saga, at least one of our close friends will, and I'm not looking forward to it.

Rytlock already faltered...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Teratus.2859 said:She has a shield and is a Necromancer..

Everyone knows Necromancers don't need shields becuase they are shields!!Something fishy about her for sure :P

Did she actually use/wear the shield at any point? I've only ever seen her run around with a focus ingame (Since she's wearing new armour. I didn't really pay attention to her weaponset during the Story-missions). The only place I've seen her wear a shield is the IBS announcement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Raknar.4735 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:She has a shield and is a Necromancer..

Everyone knows Necromancers don't need shields becuase they are shields!!Something fishy about her for sure :P

Did she actually use/wear the shield at any point? I've only ever seen her run around with a focus ingame (Since she's wearing new armour. I didn't really pay attention to her weaponset during the Story-missions). The only place I've seen her wear a shield is the IBS announcement.

I don't think so, least not yet anyway.

She has a Sceptor Focus combo in game I think but a Axe Shield combo in the trailer so it could be her backup weapon set, a hint at a future spec or it could just be Anet deciding to go with something that looks cool.

Im curious to find out where her story is going though, hopefully she'll whip a shield out at some point and show off xD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@thepenmonster.3621 said:Rytlock already faltered...

As did Crecia. The two of them have strong emotional bonds (both good and bad) to each other, and toward their cub Ryland. Rytlock also has some jealousy toward The Commander. Those are all vulnerabilities that Jormag can exploit, and has. If I had any actual say in the situation, I would send the two of them back south away from the whispers to sort themselves out, because their emotional instability is a clear liability at this point.

Marjory also has been having trouble dealing with the whispers, as well as the overall situation. She may be used to horrors as a necro, but walking in on a massacre scene can affect even the hardest hearts. Especially when the victims are relative innocents and/or your allies, as the Vigil at the keep were. Kasmeer isn't available, so Marjory is stuck trying to keep an even keel on her own. Maybe now Marjory knows how Kas felt in LS3 and PoF when Balthy hurt Kas right in her faith and Marjory got mad at her instead of supporting her. That's an apology and makeup scene that needs to happen.

Braham, oddly, has seemed the most unaffected. He certainly hears the whispers, and he also certainly feels the weight of prophecy on his shoulders. But he also doesn't seem to be faltering like the others. Perhaps he is just too dumb to fully grasp the situation, which might not be a bad thing; he bulled his way into the situation, now he has to bull his way back out, and Braham is pretty good at bulling through things. Or maybe he's just finally growing up and finding his moment. Perhaps all of the above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Jimbru.6014 said:

Braham, oddly, has seemed the most unaffected. He certainly hears the whispers, and he also certainly feels the weight of prophecy on his shoulders. But he also doesn't seem to be faltering like the others. Perhaps he is just too dumb to fully grasp the situation, which might not be a bad thing; he bulled his way into the situation, now he has to bull his way back out, and Braham is pretty good at bulling through things. Or maybe he's just finally growing up and finding his moment. Perhaps all of the above.

To be fair, he had a pretty solid falter at the end of the Whisper fight, when Jormag got into his head about the Wolf thing... although arguably, the Commander did too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That would be some Scarlet Saga, Lazarus/Balthazar, Eir death, etc level of writing...would be just trying to be shoking just for the sake of it, no real reason, no sense at all, would be against everything the character is...theres not a single evidence that could be even close to the truth...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...