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One dodge


Magolith.9412

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There's really no reason to even play mirage at this point.Just play some chrono build or core power.

With infinite horizons, you have to spam as many mirrors as possible just to get it to proc or you waste your ONE dodge.If you roll for condi cleanse on dodge, you waste your one dodge on condi cleanse.And I don't think anyone has ever used the third trait.

In general it's just trash now.

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Pretty rough is one way to put it. But for ppl who are not paying attention lets recap. daredevil still gets 3 dodges and mirage now gets 1(that's fair). plus I run IH that is a 50% defensive nerf AND a 50% offensive nerf in one swing. Homerun for the devs. They have figured out how to put a 50% nerf (cuz what other kind is there?) on offence AND defence with ONE change. Well that must have got high fives from the whole co. And I congradulate them on a successful pushing out of one more player from Mesmer/WvW. Crono is a joke and now mirage too. And since I REFUSE to play the go-heavy-or-go-home meta that has been around for the last few yrs. I will leave the game now. Just tired of getting sh*t on. GL HF

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@Jables.4659 said:They should've removed Infinite horizon instead. Its been the problem with mirage since the get go. Its a terrible design that's been carrying bad players for years now. RIP mirage.

TBH you sound like you have no idea what you are talking about and are just repeating what you have heard. The truth is IH needs to be made baseline on Mirage as anyone informed will tell you without fail. Then the actual damage and the way its multiplied per clone should be balanced as need be. Done deal, mirage would still function.

Likewise chrono never needed to lose F4, etc all that needed to be dealt with was how certain traits and skills interacted on chrono that gave it way more phant and clone generation (chrono phant, CS, SoE pre nerfs) that the others with easier access to crit bonus (danger time), but the devs took the lazy path with chrono and didnt really fix anything. They are again taking the lazy path and killing off Mirage with the 1 dodge nerf.

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Im not after sitting and thinking about it all night. > @"flog.3485" said:

If mirage gets only one dodge now, they should really change how we gain back endurance on the minor master nomads endurance.

No For that wouldnt help. That would only make keep reinforcing bad design changes. The one dodge was just a bad idea. Nothing should be done to fix it. It should just be undone. Going back to 2 dodge and adjusting ambush damage is what needs to be done. Anet was just very lazy and TBH seems to have wanted to try and kill of Mirage. I think its a bad idea to even entertain the idea that its somehow "workable"

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@BlackyWarsX.5384 said:I get trade offs for elite specs, but taking one dodge from an elite spec which mechanics rely on dodges seems... not very well thought out.

Perfectly said. For ambush Mirages to be of any use, you now need to food and gear up everything to get that endurance fill back - which limits pretty much any other play style for Mirage. The transition from PvE to WVW/PVP is like hitting a brick wall. What's amazing me is the low volume of angst about this. (Minding its still one-day post patch.) Maybe enough Mirage mains have quit or moved on to care to complain.

You'll find me on TC this week tweaking and trying to make this work.

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@MesmerizedNYC.2479 said:

@BlackyWarsX.5384 said:I get trade offs for elite specs, but taking one dodge from an elite spec which mechanics rely on dodges seems... not very well thought out.

Perfectly said. For ambush Mirages to be of any use, you now need to food and gear up everything to get that endurance fill back - which limits pretty much any other play style for Mirage. The transition from PvE to WVW/PVP is like hitting a brick wall. What's amazing me is the low volume of angst about this. (Minding its still one-day post patch.) Maybe enough Mirage mains have quit or moved on to care to complain.

You'll find me on TC this week tweaking and trying to make this work.

Well I know many mesmers have left over the last year. I can think of a multiple friends in the 30-35k+ AP range that used to main chrono and dabble in mirage that have either left or converted to people who login a few times a month to see what is up. Also the game seems to have a fairly large number of players who started in the last 2 years or so who have no understanding of Mirage and how IH, mirage cloak and ambushes work. They just know they don't like getting killed by things they dont understand or if they play mirage they just know when they dodge they deal damage and use IH cause people told them to and never looked back. TBH I think very few people have bothered to understand it. I mean heck it seems like the person doing balance probably doesn't understand it.

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@Moradorin.6217 said:Im not after sitting and thinking about it all night. > @"flog.3485" said:

If mirage gets only one dodge now, they should really change how we gain back endurance on the minor master nomads endurance.

No For that wouldnt help. That would only make keep reinforcing bad design changes. The one dodge was just a bad idea. Nothing should be done to fix it. It should just be undone. Going back to 2 dodge and adjusting ambush damage is what needs to be done. Anet was just very lazy and TBH seems to have wanted to try and kill of Mirage. I think its a bad idea to even entertain the idea that its somehow "workable"

After reading the post you linked about Bravan, I do think you are now making a pretty compelling case.So how do you adjust ambush damages exactly ?Other than that, maybe it would be a bit more intelligent to limit the number of clones a mirage could summon by making it impossible to get clones out of phantasms.

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@flog.3485 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:Im not after sitting and thinking about it all night. > @flog.3485 said:

If mirage gets only one dodge now, they should really change how we gain back endurance on the minor master nomads endurance.

No For that wouldnt help. That would only make keep reinforcing bad design changes. The one dodge was just a bad idea. Nothing should be done to fix it. It should just be undone. Going back to 2 dodge and adjusting ambush damage is what needs to be done. Anet was just very lazy and TBH seems to have wanted to try and kill of Mirage. I think its a bad idea to even entertain the idea that its somehow "workable"

After reading the post you linked about Bravan, I do think you are now making a pretty compelling case.So how do you adjust ambush damages exactly ?Other than that, maybe it would be a bit more intelligent to limit the number of clones a mirage could summon by making it impossible to get clones out of phantasms.

I think the damage could be adjusted like any other damage. You may not be aware but they have nerfed damage and reduced condi stacks, etc on Ambush skills many times in the past. Mirage isn't what it once was even before the latest one dodge change. Anyway, I would think the best to scale and balance ambush damage would be to look at how it scales per clone in the same way u would look at a shatter, accept that ambush damage is weapon specific so one would also want to look at each weapon and the traits it might have synergy with then look at making changes to the ambush damage or traits.

Changes to traits outside Mirage (core spec) would ideally take core into consideration to keep core viable as an option to either espec. That is what I would see as actual balance. Meaning you could choose to play any of the 3 and have some kinda functional synergy in each game mode.

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It may be a dumb question, but, can someone please explain me what was SO unbalanced about Mirages having 2 dodges that was needed to reduce to 1? Also, what's the point of reducing dodge if the elite spec (ambush skills) totally relies on the dodge to give enough damage??? Like, ambush skills needs for nothing now, because I shouldn't use my dodge to use the ambush skill...I need the dodge only to dodge something now. Like, seriously, can someone tell me? Meanwhile, thief spec has 3 dodges, lots of evades (let's call it Mesmer's distortions) and invisbility (Mesmer does have it as well). Mesmer changed the dodges, but thieves no.

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@campos.6520 said:It may be a dumb question, but, can someone please explain me what was SO unbalanced about Mirages having 2 dodges that was needed to reduce to 1? Also, what's the point of reducing dodge if the elite spec (ambush skills) totally relies on the dodge to give enough damage??? Like, ambush skills needs for nothing now, because I shouldn't use my dodge to use the ambush skill...I need the dodge only to dodge something now. Like, seriously, can someone tell me? Meanwhile, thief spec has 3 dodges, lots of evades (let's call it Mesmer's distortions) and invisbility (Mesmer does have it as well). Mesmer changed the dodges, but thieves no.

Right exactly. Mirage needs to try and focus dodges when they have 3 clones for good damage, or Shatter for effects like ditortion, etc which then removes said clones and any ambush damage does to zero without clones. If a mirage spams all his 2 dodges to get ambush damage while in a fight then they open themselves up to burst and pressure right after because it doesn't have dodge available any more than anyone else who spams dodge for effects with other classes.

Also any decent cleaving class can keep the clones basically cleaved down to avoid ambush damage.

The truth is for condi mirage the one everyone hates. The majority of the ambush damage is bleeding. The torment damage is pretty much always less some times much less and confusion never does significant damage in pvp/wvw unless the person makes the obvious player error of using spammy skills with stacks of confusion on them and they deserve to take the punishment for that.Seems like it would be possible to some changes majority of the damage again came from torment and confusion + shatters like it was before when shatters still mattered. Then core would gain the benefit of shatters again too.

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@Moradorin.6217

By the way, just some minutes ago I was playing my usual roaming. It was already 2x1, hard fight, 1 dodge. Then, a cannon guy hit me and I died. Imagine that in zergs. Poor mesmers hit by cannons and a lot of aoe damages. 1 dodge still. I'm full berserker...a cannon hits me almost 50% of my health bar. To be honest, it seems Anet just makes the patches, but they dont actually play it as we real players do.

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Mesmer once again getting shafted long and deep. Everyone roll cancer chaos staff tank builds with speed runes and while you can't really kill anything, nothing can really kill you when you are running and everyone get frustrated fighting you. We gotta get that hate somehow. And then as soon as they stop chasing you, you start chasing them and chipping away with the 1200 staff tickle.

Oh wait, mesmer got 0.75second dodge every 6-8 seconds but no dodge rolls like others. Uhhh so overpowered they basically kill people instant with 1 dodge press too yes, that's what the berserkers with 0 condi clean and not avoiding your hits say. It's ridiculous when often power builds deal more damage per move and it's instant and yet the condi gets the hate despite there being a thing called cleanses which can even deny the damage type. You need to keep a dodge for defense at the right moment if you don't wanna use all your utility to give some type of way to react to enemy attacks, but only have 1 dodge and our damage tied to them just means we are so easy controlled, we can be forced to use our dodges at the times where they decide and we don't have the power to attack and put pressure at our initiative without leaving us completely vulnerable. This is total bad, it's undermining everything mirage is about.

And the devs don't speak on the mirage, better to kill it gut and let it rot some. I got a suggestion for them maybe they should mount its cadavar on a pole(if you know what i mean) to serve as a warning for other speccs that they shouldn't have too much fun - or else!

We don't want the same damn bone u always throwing us. Make the super clunky, mechanically challenged and unstable specc chrono perform well in ideal raids. This won't make us forget everything else, most mesmer don't play for the pve raid chrono.

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@"campos.6520" said:It may be a dumb question, but, can someone please explain me what was SO unbalanced about Mirages having 2 dodges that was needed to reduce to 1? Also, what's the point of reducing dodge if the elite spec (ambush skills) totally relies on the dodge to give enough damage??? Like, ambush skills needs for nothing now, because I shouldn't use my dodge to use the ambush skill...I need the dodge only to dodge something now. Like, seriously, can someone tell me? Meanwhile, thief spec has 3 dodges, lots of evades (let's call it Mesmer's distortions) and invisbility (Mesmer does have it as well). Mesmer changed the dodges, but thieves no.

what logic do you seek?people cried about CI, removed from the gamethey cried about clones, scept 2 staff 3 nerfed.they cry about condi, condi damage nerfed by about 70%they cried about "perma dodging mesmer" scept 2 cd up by 50%, axe 3 up by 50% -50 endurance.that had nothing to do with balance, they wanted to remove mirage from viability

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"campos.6520" said:It may be a dumb question, but, can someone please explain me what was SO unbalanced about Mirages having 2 dodges that was needed to reduce to 1? Also, what's the point of reducing dodge if the elite spec (ambush skills) totally relies on the dodge to give enough damage??? Like, ambush skills needs for nothing now, because I shouldn't use my dodge to use the ambush skill...I need the dodge only to dodge something now. Like, seriously, can someone tell me? Meanwhile, thief spec has 3 dodges, lots of evades (let's call it Mesmer's distortions) and invisbility (Mesmer does have it as well). Mesmer changed the dodges, but thieves no.

what logic do you seek?people cried about CI, removed from the gamethey cried about clones, scept 2 staff 3 nerfed.they cry about condi, condi damage nerfed by about 70%they cried about "perma dodging mesmer" scept 2 cd up by 50%, axe 3 up by 50% -50 endurance.that had nothing to do with balance, they wanted to remove mirage from viability

This is pretty much the timeline with nerfs missing.

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