Why Guild Wars 2 failed for me.

[Faline.8795]

This is my opinion and probably doesn't reflect what other people think. This is just me.

I've had Guild Wars since...I don't know. Not terribly long after it came out.

Yet I rarely play it.

Beautiful graphics, love that there is tons of voice acting in there. Makes the world seem more alive.

But it can't capture me.

• No world chat. Makes the game very lonely. Map chat is too limited. I know, I know. "Get into a guild." Some people don't like guilds.

• No random matchmaking. The most popular games, World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XIV have random matchmaking for their dungeons. It's wildly popular. Sure, Guild Wars 2 has a group finder, but it involves finding a group, applying, and maybe getting accepted or rejected. A lot of people don't like that. Letting the game make the groups takes that pressure away.

• No appreciable end game. Conquering the next raid or dungeon or working toward that cool looking weapon isn't enough of a draw. GW2's bread and butter is avoiding the power chase. Okay, fine. But what they do have doesn't work for enough people. Gamers want to chase something. What? I don't know. But what GW2 isn't it.

• Lack of enthusiasm from the developers. Maybe I should rephrase that. At least, public enthusiasm. Communication from the GW2 people is rare. I would like to hear a lot more, a lot more frequently. More communication tells me that they still have faith in the game. Silence is what you get from a corpse. It does seem they are working on that, lately. Let's see if it sticks.

• Not enough new content. Have to keep rolling it out. Updates are too far between. That, as well, bespeaks a game that isn't doing well, perception-wise. Reality doesn't matter. Only perception.

I know, for some of that, people will say "Want chat? Get a guild. Want groups? Get a guild!"

That doesn't work well, especially in today's environment. Players today, a large number of them, don't want to be tied down. They want to play and then go back to their life.

The next argument is, "If you want to play solo, don't play an MMO". Problem is, that outlook will eventually kill GW2. Because that isn't where the marker is heading. Solo is where it is at. Yes, wandering the world and coming on a group to slay a boss is great. But overall, people want to do what they want to do when they want to do it. Not wait for some group to get together and eventually do it. That is where the market is heading, and we can either adapt to it or cross our arms, pout, and watch GW2 flounder.

GW2, for it's part, is very solo-friendly. Except for raids and dungeons (and some world bosses), there really isn't anything you can't do by yourself. But there are things that GW2 can do to help the solo player. The aforementioned random group maker. The world chat.

End game, I don't know. If not a gear chase, then what?

Anyway, that's my opinion. ymmv

[Melech.4308]

Regarding World Chat:

I'm trying to picture it, but all I can see is an endless stream of text flowing down the chat window at 1000 lines per second and not giving you a chance to even read anything

[Skotlex.7580]

well, each one has their own views on how things pan out.

Regarding the matchmaker, I like the current system because it allows me to set up a "daily p1: everybody welcome :D" lfg, and people immediately know its a chill run. If people want a hardcore group optimized for speed clearing, they will also state so in their lfg. In my opinion, mixing both types of players is a horrible idea.

About the end game: there are various things one could pursue (like reaching tier 4 fractals and doing CM modes, or raiding), and the game has lots of things to do. If one is absolutely bored, there are more achievements than might be humanly possible to complete. Granted, none of these is obvious or a "must" as it'd be in other games. GW2 was advertised as being for casual players, so it's to be expected that the big game sinks are completely optional.

Developer communication has been the best it's been since release. I suppose it could be better... but I'd rather developers spend their time working on the game, not talking to the playerbase. :P

Just my views, perhaps the game wasn't designed with the OP in mind? I am pretty happy with the game just as it is.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Faline.8795 said:

• No random matchmaking. The most popular games, World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XIV have random matchmaking for their dungeons. It's wildly popular. Sure, Guild Wars 2 has a group finder, but it involves finding a group, applying, and maybe getting accepted or rejected. A lot of people don't like that. Letting the game make the groups takes that pressure away.

You are in luck because Strike Missions don't involve finding a group and at least the easier ones can be completed in any group composition with any type of player.

[mercury ranique.2170]

Matchmaking and worldchat are two things that have been discussed and viewed as a bad thing by the GW2 community. It actually makes this game unique and gives it an identity to be different from that one game you have been playing. Too many games looking alike is bad and there is all ready a game (and some copycats) that does it this way those two things are simply not fitting this community.As for lack of content. This is a recent issue and part of the revenue system of the game. The genre is loosing people, but changing the revenue system will mean more content, but also more people hooking off.

[Danikat.8537]

@"Faline.8795" said:

• No random matchmaking. The most popular games, World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XIV have random matchmaking for their dungeons. It's wildly popular. Sure, Guild Wars 2 has a group finder, but it involves finding a group, applying, and maybe getting accepted or rejected. A lot of people don't like that. Letting the game make the groups takes that pressure away.

This one surprised me. I know, as you said, it's different opinions, and I know a lot of people accept other games random group finders but it never occurred to me that anyone would like being dumped into the first group with a space or prefer it to being able to choose a group which suits you. My understanding until now is just that they don't realise there's any other way it could be done, because the majority of MMOs use random groups.

My other MMO uses that method and it means random groups are dominated by speed runners. There's no self-selection and if you get even one speed runner in a group they'll storm ahead and start killing everything (the game also has balance issues which means a lot of people are able to solo dungeons without needing special builds) and everyone else just has to try and keep up so they can hopefully get there in time to tag the boss and qualify for the kill.

The attitude among players is that if you want to do anything except rush through the dungeon as fast as possible you have to avoid using the group finder and use guild or map chat to try to find people, which makes the group finder entirely useless for a lot of people. I've lost count of how many times players have asked for a system like GW2 has so players can make sure everyone in the group has the same expectations. That would ensure speed runners don't have to complain about "carrying" the rest of the group because they never get a chance to do anything and people who want to do anything else (including crazy things like listen to the dialogue) can also find a group which suits them.

[Rasimir.6239]

@"Faline.8795" said:

• No appreciable end game. Conquering the next raid or dungeon or working toward that cool looking weapon isn't enough of a draw. GW2's bread and butter is avoiding the power chase. Okay, fine. But what they do have doesn't work for enough people. Gamers want to chase something. What? I don't know. But what GW2 isn't it.This actually is the reason why I play this game over any of the other MMOs out there (and have been playing it for longer than any other MMO): I love that I can make up my own goals and really play what I enjoy and be equally rewarded to other people enjoying and playing other parts of this game. No nagging "you have to play zone x and dungeon y daily, or you will inevitably miss out on the goodies you'll need to do those other endgame activities that give even more powerful and exclusive goodies" in the back of my head.

If you need the game to lure you with carrots of the most powerful rewards that you can only reach by doing very specific content, there are lots of MMOs out there to give you that kind of gameplay. Not doing that kind of thing is one of the strengths of GW2 that makes it pretty unique compared to similar games, and a strength many players appreciate. Alienating the players that choose to play this game precisely because there is no "one and only" path to endgame rewards (speaking from a purely mechanical/power point of view) just to lure in more players with a feature that competes with lots of other games out there doesn't seem like a smart business move to me.

This gamer wants to chase fun, a world to explore on my own terms, characters to build and improve the way I enjoy it, to find the content that best suits me on any given day. I'm sure there's enough of us that appreciate the kind of endgame GW2 has precisely because of its open, variable nature compared to other games to keep this one game afloat.

The moment the game has to try and compete with other games by mimicing features those games have because it's core audience is too small to keep it afloat with its current setup is the moment this game has a much bigger problem than just "enough" people wanting to play it but missing their carrot-on-a-stick to give them the illusion of having things to do.

[aspirine.6852]

You are in luck, there are lots of other games. Like the ones you mentioned. Good luck with them..

[Antycypator.9874]

Random Matchmaking doesn't work here — see "Public" option in Strike Missions. People know that they can just check LFG for squad/party or make their own. But the problem is that probably certain amount of players are afraid to put LFG or start a party/squad because it's much easier to join. Everytime I make a squad for Strikes, it fills very quickly. It means that someone's just checking LFG and waiting. Random matchmaking won't work because for some content we don't want random classes. Sometimes we need a healer, support, kiter etc.Not Enough Content — I don't know, but probably making game-content isn't easy and devs can't just rush it.World chat would be messy. Imagine the guild spam.This is a multiplayer game, so it's pretty normal that playing with people is easier if you join the society.

[tehdimmy.4871]

It fails to delete my accounts.

[Mewcifer.5198]

@Melech.4308 said:Regarding World Chat:

I'm trying to picture it, but all I can see is an endless stream of text flowing down the chat window at 1000 lines per second and not giving you a chance to even read anything

Yeah, the only games I played that allowed a world chat required microtransactions to use it and so it was usually limited to people advertising a guild or trying to sell some rare item.A completely open world chat just sounds awful.

random matchmaking

This makes more sense for games that have set roles in place. Gw2 doesn't really have that. I would much rather use lfg and explain exactly what my group needs and have some kind of control over who I play with. If anet added random matchmaking I imagine the experience would be pretty awful as you would get a bunch of random people with no idea what they are doing and probably have a bad comp.

end game

I can sort of understand this. Right now my end game is achievement hunting and legendary crafting. There is always a goal to head towards for most players. But they have to choose that goal themselves.

new contentMaking things takes time. Making things worthwhile takes even more time. People need to sit back and be more patient.

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Faline.8795" said:

• No appreciable end game. Conquering the next raid or dungeon or working toward that cool looking weapon isn't enough of a draw. GW2's bread and butter is avoiding the power chase. Okay, fine. But what they do have doesn't work for enough people. Gamers want to chase something. What? I don't know. But what GW2 isn't it.

• Lack of enthusiasm from the developers. Maybe I should rephrase that. At least, public enthusiasm. Communication from the GW2 people is rare. I would like to hear a lot more, a lot more frequently. More communication tells me that they still have faith in the game. Silence is what you get from a corpse. It does seem they are working on that, lately. Let's see if it sticks.

• Not enough new content. Have to keep rolling it out. Updates are too far between. That, as well, bespeaks a game that isn't doing well, perception-wise. Reality doesn't matter. Only perception.

These three things I especially agree with (although, in the case of "new content" I'd rather see the return of expansions than the continuation of often poor or otherwise insufficient LW episodes). But they've made other mistakes, too, like the lack of quality content 50% of the time (i.e., the inconsistency in quality), or the lack of a real RPG feel for story content (that could have been there had they kept the personal story concept and the personality feature).

One could criticize other things, like the skill system and PvP that were both so much better in GW1, or the way (and time) they implemented "templates", and what not, but those are all things that are very subjective and not the core of whatever urgent issues this game has. I think your post brought up some good, valid points.

[kharmin.7683]

We've had threads requesting world chat before. Most people responded that they would disable/turn off world chat, so it really wouldn't be all that effective.

[Hashberry.4510]

I would love a random matchmaker.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@"Faline.8795" said:

• No appreciable end game. Conquering the next raid or dungeon or working toward that cool looking weapon isn't enough of a draw. GW2's bread and butter is avoiding the power chase. Okay, fine. But what they do have doesn't work for enough people. Gamers want to chase
  something
  . What? I don't know. But what GW2 isn't it.This actually is the reason why I play this game over any of the other MMOs out there (and have been playing it for longer than any other MMO): I love that I can make up my own goals and really play what I enjoy and be equally rewarded to other people enjoying and playing other parts of this game. No nagging "you have to play zone x and dungeon y daily, or you will inevitably miss out on the goodies you'll need to do those other endgame activities that give even more powerful and exclusive goodies" in the back of my head.

If you need the game to lure you with carrots of the most powerful rewards that you can only reach by doing very specific content, there are lots of MMOs out there to give you that kind of gameplay. Not doing that kind of thing is one of the strengths of GW2 that makes it pretty unique compared to similar games, and a strength many players appreciate. Alienating the players that choose to play this game precisely because there is no "one and only" path to endgame rewards (speaking from a purely mechanical/power point of view) just to lure in more players with a feature that competes with lots of other games out there doesn't seem like a smart business move to me.

This gamer wants to chase fun, a world to explore on my own terms, characters to build and improve the way I enjoy it, to find the content that best suits me on any given day. I'm sure there's enough of us that appreciate the kind of endgame GW2 has precisely because of its open, variable nature compared to other games to keep this one game afloat.

The moment the game has to try and compete with other games by mimicing features those games have because it's core audience is too small to keep it afloat with its current setup is the moment this game has a much bigger problem than just "enough" people wanting to play it but missing their carrot-on-a-stick to give them the illusion of having things to do.

Alright so let me actually put a bit of effort to explain the other side of this.

Hello, Im a player from guild wars 1 and have been here since the very first beta and I LOVED this game when It came out for all the reasons you mentioned. But I explored the whole world, cleared all the maps and while I still have legendaries to make to me they aren't really something I enjoy chasing. I don't mind the lack of power chase but what I do mind is that we don't have a goal that could be considered "Acceptable" or actually worthwhile. Again legendary armor is great and all but not actually needed and honestly they are something that while useful will be covered by other appearances because on their own they are kind of ugly.

Enter ESO: In Eso they have much more than simply power to chase, you have personalities which change how you as a character and player MOVE AND INTERACT WITH THE WORLD AND OTHERS. They have something like infusions but they are account-bound skins that showcase not only your ability to complete difficult content, but also your time investment. They also have various decorations for example boss heads from raids or world boss trophies for player housing, now we have something similar with decorations for guild halls (kek) But they honestly do everything in their power to ignore guild halls. At least offer us worthwhile hidden cosmetics or some such that you can ONLY get from exploring the world and going out of your way to have mastery of the game? Make them class based to inspire alts, so it can be like "Oh you did it with your warrior? Good job.... but look at all this cool necromancer stuff too? Go get it champ." Give us more flushed out and interesting reasons to actually play all facets of the game, because right now its either "you're either here or you're over there, no need to do both." I mean in the beginning when you cleared maps you got NOTHING for it until you cleared the whole thing and it was ONLY the piece needed to make a legendary.

Now in no way am I saying guild wars should become ESO. Im simply saying they could borrow portions of how they handle things, and how they do things to make it easier to have a template to look at. "Ok well they have x, y and z... how can we take and make something similar?" The game itself needs to be more rewarding in giving people a reason to do a piece of content they typically wouldn't. Some people HATE pvp but if there is something they want that comes exclusively from it, they will go do it and maybe come to like it to some extent. This goes for all content acrossed the game~

There are people out there who don't need anything, they are few and far between. The OP is correct that most players the silent majority will simply dip off to other games, and the retention will not be there. You don't need power progression but you need SOMETHING to progress and chase that isn't finite such as the chase for hidden goodies or perhaps secret stuff that can make you feel good that YOU found it. Whether this is interesting encounters with a hidden open world boss who is really hard, or the hidden treasures that await in an old tomb. Having class based armor (Like the Mistward that rev's got in HoT) that can be obtained for each class by doing specific objectives throughout the world and game could be cool? Same with weapons and then make it that you can just add those to your cosmetics as "neutral cosmetics" that can be used on ANY armor weight so you get a ton of stuff for merely completing and playing the game with multiple characters... this would be a wonderful start. ( With the journey taking you acrossed all modes of the game, to try and lead you to see how much the game truly has to offer perhaps?)

@aspirine.6852 said:You are in luck, there are lots of other games. Like the ones you mentioned. Good luck with them..

If guild wars doesn't adapt you'll be going to those games too, because the severs will go down and it won't exist (Until a private server comes around, if it does.)

[Rasimir.6239]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@Faline.8795 said:

• No appreciable end game.This actually is the reason why I play this game over any of the other MMOs out there > Alright so let me actually put a bit of effort to explain the other side of this.

...

Enter ESOI started playing this game toward the end of 2012, so a bit over 7 years now. I've played ESO on and off since beta. While I do enjoy ESO occasionally, it is exactly the fact that for most of the unique stuff you have to grind the same stuff day in day out that always turns me off quickly, and if you miss a couple of days for seasonal rewards for example you're out of luck.

In GW2 most things (nowadays) can be gotten at your own pace, whenever and however you feel like it. While you are missing the carrot, I play this game exactly for the same reason I gave in the post you quoted: I get to choose what to do (and in what timeframe). There's no need to for example repeat specific dailies each and every day since most rewards can be gotten through a variety of ways. If ESO were a bit more like GW2 in this way I'd be all over it, since I actually like a lot about that game, but their more conservative way to rewarding players for grinding very specific content turns me off every time.

@aspirine.6852 said:You are in luck, there are lots of other games. Like the ones you mentioned. Good luck with them..

If guild wars doesn't adapt you'll be going to those games too, because the severs will go down and it won't exist (Until a private server comes around, if it does.)Do you have some insider knowledge about the actual motivations of this game's player base, or is this really just the usual doom and gloom because you and your peers don't get out of this game what other games have conditioned you to expect?

[Vrath.1754]

Different strokes for different folks.Reasons one person's doesnt like it are reasons others love it. Its the way its always been. Be happy theres alternatives and go play them and come back when you miss the game or don't. The core tenets of GW2 wont be changing.

Aside from that in a lot of complaints theres rarely not a solution to a problem if one wants to extend the effort.

[Druitt.7629]

Random matchmaking for things like dungeons doesn't work well in other games. Either: a) a majority vote can kick a player, or b) you're stuck with the random group no matter what. In the former case, you have the same problems you describe of folks being subjected to gear and DPS inspections and kicked if they're not the meta spec for a speed run. In the latter case, you have problems with folks that insist on doing the dungeon their way -- and you're stuck -- or you have a problem with folks that make you carry them.

There's no perfect system.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I wonder if there are posts on the ESO forums stating that game will die if they don't change it to be more like GW2.

[rylien.3824]

Arenanet and their goodies : :#

[MordoTekniq.7689]

GW2 didn't fail me. And I didn't fail GW2.Some folks just aren't MMORPG folk.GW2 does what it does well.Those things simply do not interest me.Peace.

[Genesis.5169]

None of the biggest MMO's or games on the market that are online prize solo play like the GW2 community does. Whilist FF14, WoW and WoW classic do better then GW2 and in both games you have to wait for people to do things.

Its not the world thats wrong here.And the community continuously push anet in that same direction that has been killing it since the nerf of HoT and al that remain left are the hopefuls and the players who pushed everyone else away with their false claims. It astounds me then in the current place GW2 is people continue to tow the same line that got us here. Its never been constructive and it isn't its just been a wave of people who complain about not being able to do things they don't even attempt like raids and fotm cms then they boycott it and complain on the forums.

People need to look at themselves you want to know why GW2 didn't hold on to you look no further then yourself, we have killed under water combat, raids, fotm cms, (strike missions soon), PoF (yes im saying this during pof launch more people where doing HoT maps even post nerfs because HoT was better), old orr, original HoT. Yet no one asks to refine any of the unique mechanics that make gw2 different either but instead would rather make GW2 play more like a traditional MMO then GW2, see the countless post about better usage of combo fields.

Hell when mounts came out a bunch of people demanded that they shouldnt be used in tyria because of jumping puzzles and this is single player content wtf does it matter to you if some one is having a easier time doing a jump puzzle.

[Danikat.8537]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I wonder if there are posts on the ESO forums stating that game will die if they don't change it to be more like GW2.

Yep. They're not always that direct, but every so often I'll see a topic about what ESO 'needs' to do to survive and recognise all their ideas as coming from GW2.

Oddly enough even though I play both and I prefer GW2 I don't always agree with their ideas. Even though I started playing ESO purely because I'm a fan of the Elder Scrolls series I like that my two MMOs are different and I wouldn't want them to both be identical. Also sometimes the underlying systems and game design are so different that trying to copy one part of it makes no sense at all unless you change the whole thing, and then you're getting into the territory of 'why not just play a different game'?

[Rauderi.8706]

@"Genesis.5169" said:None of the biggest MMO's or games on the market that are online prize solo play like the GW2 community does. Whilist FF14, WoW and WoW classic do better then GW2 and in both games you have to wait for people to do things.

I don't usually have to wait for people, but I do have to wait for the clock timegate in order to do something interesting or in line with my goals.I have to beg an interface workaround to group with people instead of waiting for a queue. It's honestly worse than other MMOs in that regard. "LOL Manifesto" all you want, but I'm doing a lot of "waiting to have fun" that I shouldn't be.

[AnonBackStabber.8536]

It's failing for me since the Amazon servers came online - packet loss/lag spikes/general lag have been getting worse and worse. And it seems worst for the latest members joining a zone, as if there's higher priority for those that have been in the map the longest... Annoying in WvW, watching everything going on around you, while every command is ignored for over a minute (even respawning at WP).