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For a future Elite spec, I would like another class to get Minions like Necro, or pet like Ranger


Knighthonor.4061

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@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:Since elite specs are GW2's way of doing the dual class concept from the original game, I would like to see a new class elite spec, that introduce new minion skills similar to Necromancer minions to a different class, or a Pet like Ranger's pet concept to a different class, but with a different theme than being an Animal.

Pets are a profession mechanic, not a utility skill. I personally am perfectly fine with minions and things like Turrets and spirits being given to other classes, but pets are a no. Can't remove what makes Ranger unique.

Well Elite specs come with mechanics most of the time. Ranger Pet could be a mechanic for other classes if done in a unique way. By myself I have come up with a few Elite Spec ideas that use Pet(ranger mechanics) on a different non Ranger class. So if I could come up with that by myself, its possible for a team of developers to do the same, if not come up with more.

Who could have Minions? Engineer with highly technical Robot Minions using their utility skills in combination for some unique strategies, Elementalist with elemental minions that might be a bit lower in numbers but they could do something unique with it like each minion skill adds to a single powerful minion that warps and changes based on the skills added and element attuned, Revenant with extremely short lived minions that are more spammable with their energy system not sure how they could work exactly, but those would be my picks aside from Necromancer.

Many classes can have Minions, like some of the examples you mentioned.Warrior- Squires, BeastGuardian - Squires, Angels, SpiritsRevenants - just about anything due to their Mist magic connection to time and alternate dimensions.

Engineer- RobotsThief - Bandits, DemonsRanger- Beast, Spirits, Plant Creatures

Elementalist- Elementals, Spirits, Arcane CreaturesNecromancers- More Necro minions, Demons, UndeadMesmer- Band Members, Doppelganger

As for Turrets? Ranger could have some interesting nature turrets which could be cool, not sure what they'd do but I imaging more along the lines of upgraded sylvari "turret" skills. There is also Elementalist which could drop totem like turrets which could almost act like short ranged banners as opposed to the more offensive nature of engineer, perhaps even act like the GW1 wards which could be a unique idea for a support spec for ele. Guardian could also gain turrets as well or even warrior.

I had a number of Turret elite spec ideas for multiple classes as well.

Warrior- Same steampunk turretsGuardian- SpiritsReventents- Steampunk Turrets and Spirits

Ranger- Nature Plant TurretsEngineer- more engineer turretsThief- Steampunk Turrets

Necromancer- Bone TurretsElementalist- Elemental TotemsMesmer- Orbs

As for Spirits The necromancer could use spirits extremely well as could the elementalist. Revenant's mechanic unfortunately is antithetical to the mechanics that spirits require which is why we got renegade instead... Also they don't get shared utility types, something that frustrates me to no end. Guardian is the last one that could get spirits, since they've already had spirit weapons.

I love summons. A lot of players don't. GW2 hasn't had good summon mechanics or counter play to summons. Which is a shame because I would really enjoy a proper Minion Master elite spec for necromancer especially.

I love your creativity, but no. This would be a disaster for class identity.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Honestly Renegade would really fit the bill for a minion oriented type skillset. Kalla summons as they currently are are kinda awful, they're stuck in this weird limbo of being wells and actual minions and it just leads to scenarios like them getting CC'd and not doing anything, summoned to only die immediately or nobody actually standing in their AoE's so they don't end up doing anything in the long run or straight up not summoning them at all because of terrian issues. I'd say just rework the Kalla skills into full fledged minions, that way they're more useful and you can have an actual spooky charr warband fight with you, it's a win/win.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Yes, let's give engi minions. Hmm, how about small flying copters that follow you and perform some action? Oh wait, they tried it and failed miserably.

Oh, how about stationary robots that would improve area control? Oh wait... It's already here, they didn't even try.

No. More. AI. Minions.

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@Samug.6512 said:Yes, let's give engi minions. Hmm, how about small flying copters that follow you and perform some action? Oh wait, they tried it and failed miserably.

Oh, how about stationary robots that would improve area control? Oh wait... It's already here, they didn't even try.

No. More. AI. Minions.

Wait Gyros are considered Minions or wells that follow you? Oh wait

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@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Samug.6512 said:Yes, let's give engi minions. Hmm, how about small flying copters that follow you and perform some action? Oh wait, they tried it and failed miserably.

Oh, how about stationary robots that would improve area control? Oh wait... It's already here, they didn't even try.

No. More. AI. Minions.

Wait Gyros are considered Minions or wells that follow you? Oh wait

Are you serious? Did you forget the 4 past years when gyros were separate entities? Why do you think they changed them to Wells?

(I'm referring to that with the 1st part of my previous post in case you're still not following)

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I think that you're suggestion is a terrible idea. The game is inundated with NPC-assisted DPS as it is. Ranger pets, although unique to the class, are a problem. Mesmer phantasms and clones are a problem. Necromancer minions, too. The list could probably be larger. But all of these "minions" represent an aspect of a class that interferes with core mechanics within the game. They were a bad concept and bringing in more won't change that.

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  • 1 month later...

I think the most likely candidates for such an elite spec would be the Thief or the Warrior.Every other class has some kind of minion mechanic already in the game.

Revenant - Renegade summonsRanger - Pet and spiritsEngineer - TurretsElementalist - ElementalsNecromancer - MinionsMesmer - Clones and Phantasms

The Warrior has no units to summon at all and the Thief just has an elite skill.

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@"Moira Shalaar.5620" said:I would like to see a ranger style necromancer elite that revolves around animal minions. Something where the necro has to acquire a pet before it can be used as a minion with the same full scope of pets as ranger has, but each pet minion brings a different skill & benefit that are similar to those of the same pet on ranger, with the life force mechanic being used for summoning the pet possibly with a trait for sharing damage from necro to pet, or something along those lines.

Why duplicate a Ranger as another profession's Elite? As Kodama notes, most classes already have minion mechanics. (Actually, they underestimate things: Engineers have two different minion mechanisms: Turrets in base, and Gyros (mobile Turrets) in an Elite spec.)

Not to mention that minions and pets have been problematic in terms of behavior and reliability for a long time and building an Elite around them would probably not be a good idea mechanics-wise. And balancing pets is very hard: they can't do so much damage that you can stand back and have them defeat anything, but neither can the toon have so much damage that the pet simply puts you over the top. Pets are also not very compelling in general. They tend to distance you from active participation -- which sometimes you want, but in general it's a cancer that gives the whole profession a bad name. Specs that have pets or tough minions (Ranger, Necromancer) are generally regarded as lower skill and become boring after a while. (A pet/minion is never going to provide the interactivity that the player can provide via direct-control skills.)

That said, with sufficient imagination, it just might work. For example, a Warrior might spec into "Commander" and basically give them some "soldiers" that they command. To avoid being overpowered, the Commander would have to lose stats, skills, etc, during any encounter that they used soldiers. Maybe a Commander's Mindset debuff, or something? That doesn't really appeal to me -- and I think most Warrior players would hate it, too -- but if there's no tradeoff you'd end up with weak minions that are just fodder.

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@Druitt.7629 said:

@"Moira Shalaar.5620" said:I would like to see a ranger style necromancer elite that revolves around animal minions. Something where the necro has to acquire a pet before it can be used as a minion with the same full scope of pets as ranger has, but each pet minion brings a different skill & benefit that are similar to those of the same pet on ranger, with the life force mechanic being used for summoning the pet possibly with a trait for sharing damage from necro to pet, or something along those lines.

Why duplicate a Ranger as another profession's Elite? As Kodama notes, most classes already have minion mechanics. (Actually, they underestimate things: Engineers have two different minion mechanisms: Turrets in base, and Gyros (mobile Turrets) in an Elite spec.)

Not to mention that minions and pets have been problematic in terms of behavior and reliability for a long time and building an Elite around them would probably not be a good idea mechanics-wise. And balancing pets is very hard: they can't do so much damage that you can stand back and have them defeat anything, but neither can the toon have so much damage that the pet simply puts you over the top. Pets are also not very compelling in general. They tend to distance you from active participation -- which sometimes you want, but in general it's a cancer that gives the whole profession a bad name. Specs that have pets or tough minions (Ranger, Necromancer) are generally regarded as lower skill and become boring after a while. (A pet/minion is never going to provide the interactivity that the player can provide via direct-control skills.)

That said, with sufficient imagination, it just
might
work. For example, a Warrior might spec into "Commander" and basically give them some "soldiers" that they command. To avoid being overpowered, the Commander would have to lose stats, skills, etc, during any encounter that they used soldiers. Maybe a Commander's Mindset debuff, or something? That doesn't really appeal to me -- and I think most Warrior players would hate it, too -- but if there's no tradeoff you'd end up with weak minions that are just fodder.

Gyros used to be a minion type of skill, but they got changed into wells and therefore don't function like minions at all anymore.

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  • 3 weeks later...

@"Druitt.7629" said:Why duplicate a Ranger as another profession's Elite? As Kodama notes, most classes already have minion mechanics. (Actually, they underestimate things: Engineers have two different minion mechanisms: Turrets in base, and Gyros (mobile Turrets) in an Elite spec.)

Not to mention that minions and pets have been problematic in terms of behavior and reliability for a long time and building an Elite around them would probably not be a good idea mechanics-wise. And balancing pets is very hard: they can't do so much damage that you can stand back and have them defeat anything, but neither can the toon have so much damage that the pet simply puts you over the top. Pets are also not very compelling in general. They tend to distance you from active participation -- which sometimes you want, but in general it's a cancer that gives the whole profession a bad name. Specs that have pets or tough minions (Ranger, Necromancer) are generally regarded as lower skill and become boring after a while. (A pet/minion is never going to provide the interactivity that the player can provide via direct-control skills.)

That said, with sufficient imagination, it just might work. For example, a Warrior might spec into "Commander" and basically give them some "soldiers" that they command. To avoid being overpowered, the Commander would have to lose stats, skills, etc, during any encounter that they used soldiers. Maybe a Commander's Mindset debuff, or something? That doesn't really appeal to me -- and I think most Warrior players would hate it, too -- but if there's no tradeoff you'd end up with weak minions that are just fodder.

On ranger pets, there was a missed opportunity for letting players manually activate their skills. (Putting aside the F2 skill.) To add insult to injury, most F2 skills are just damage bonuses that don't open up any interesting strategies.

Something like the Smokescale has a knockdown ability (Good functionality being left to AI stupidity), Smoke Assault that lets it simultaneously evade and teleport to target (another great candidate for player control), and the 1 ability players actually can control; Smoke Field. It's an actual smoke field generated at the Smokescale's position, so I or player allies can use finishers with it.

It might have been kinder on the balance team for pets/minions to be treated as living banners that do damage on top of delivering team buffs at the risk of being killed in combat. Tigers pounce & give Fury on F2, all Moas have an AOE healing ability(!) in their AI ability list and Fern Wolves have a healing howl as their F2 thing. The precedent is there but none of them have the potency and/or AOE range needed for allied players to reliably benefit from this stuff and nobody wants to stack around a stupid pet.

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