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Core Necro Post Patch Will Have Broken Sustain - Told You


Trevor Boyer.6524

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@KrHome.1920 said:

Let me just say one thing: you posted a oneshot video of soulbeast a few months ago. I suggest you do a core necro farming video with a similar build (maul and worldy impact and all that stuff are still crazy esp against a target that has to facetank all that kitten).

I took you up on that challenge after reading this.

Can't wait to see what everyone has to say about it after this is posted, especially the Necro Mains.

This is that build that I had noticed pre-patch btw, and boy did it turn out to be really strong post-patch.

I wouldn't normally go out of my way like this for a class I do not main, but this is crazy. I do not take damage for 10 minutes in the video. It needs to be discussed & reviewed boys. When people start honing in more on builds like this, we're gonna have a problem with game functionality.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHq1o6i36_s

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@Ithilwen.1529 said:At this point, a core necro can stand there and face tank shatter after shatter and not even bother dodging. Sustain for core necro is way too high.

Yup, during the first couple minutes of that video, I quite seriously stand there and face tank a Core Warrior and a Berserker, while I kill them, while I also face tank a Power Shatter Mes, and then I turn around and kill that. I 1v3 and win, and take barely any damage.

Anyone defending this stuff is either (A) Clutching hard to maintain class dominance, or (B) Hasn't yet figured out the good builds.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Let me just say one thing: you posted a oneshot video of soulbeast a few months ago. I suggest you do a core necro farming video with a similar build (maul and worldy impact and all that stuff are still crazy esp against a target that has to facetank all that kitten).

I took you up on that challenge after reading this.

Can't wait to see what everyone has to say about it after this is posted, especially the Necro Mains.

This is that build that I had noticed pre-patch btw, and boy did it turn out to be really strong post-patch.

I wouldn't normally go out of my way like this for a class I do not main, but this is crazy. I do not take damage for 10 minutes in the video. It needs to be discussed & reviewed boys. When people start honing in more on builds like this, we're gonna have a problem with game functionality.

Trevor, i offer you a better challenge. Take a look and share your thoughts(build included)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIE0lE-8GqI

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@Burnfall.9573 I think that after this patch, Renegade should be looked into, regarding its viability. It's capable of dealing good damage output, especially now after power nerfs, but it also has supplemental healing & alacrity, which if it had the right build configuration, may actually work well alongside of a FB now.

FB/Ren duo may find its way from pve into pvp. Seriously, after all the boon reduction, these two classes could create the superior team fight.

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

Let me just say one thing: you posted a oneshot video of soulbeast a few months ago. I suggest you do a core necro farming video with a similar build (maul and worldy impact and all that stuff are still crazy esp against a target that has to facetank all that kitten).

I took you up on that challenge after reading this.

Can't wait to see what everyone has to say about it after this is posted, especially the Necro Mains.

This is that build that I had noticed pre-patch btw, and boy did it turn out to be really strong post-patch.

I wouldn't normally go out of my way like this for a class I do not main, but this is crazy. I do not take damage for 10 minutes in the video. It needs to be discussed & reviewed boys. When people start honing in more on builds like this, we're gonna have a problem with game functionality.

Trevor, i offer you a better challenge. Take a look and share your thoughts(build included)

It is time for the renegade to rise up.

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Anet - "We thought it woud be great idea to let players to play as a raid boss... So here we are, enjoy !"

@Trevor Boyer.6524Anyone defending this stuff is either (A) Clutching hard to maintain class dominance, or (B) Hasn't yet figured out the good builds.The same I can same about RANGER PLAYERS , you and other ranger-mains defending pet damage with coof of 3-5.5 (not even mention that you can buff it) when players damage got literally nullified.You are guilty yourself

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I would change the passive life force gain on signet and remove the protection from life eternal for starters. I really hope they don't nerf shroud damage reduction since that's one huge step backwards... it will kill the class. maybe, idk, don't give death magic perma prot instead? I've noticed this trend where anet buffs something to high hell but instead of dealing with this new op thing they nerf core mechanics. if they continue to do this shit i'm seriously gonna quit this game for good.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524The build you have posted seems to be effective vs low armor targets because once the armor goes up the power dmg component is really low, what is doing the job are them multiple sources of siphoning. From the video you posted, the people in arena didn't really seems that skilled, and they stand like golems in your wells and locust swam. Infact still this build can be shutdown with cc train and you would stand there doing nothing.Anyway it indeed seems to be a bit too strong for multiple reasons:

  • Lich Form was not nerfed especially the auto attack and grim specter, I don't even know why, but it should have been done
  • Fear of Death need to give less life force on fear and have it's cd increase maybe 10% lf and 10s cd?
  • The power dmg is actually low but the small pockets of siphoning adding up seems to do the job, vs people that stand in the wells or take an entire locust swarm. The siphoning should be look at, reduce it's dmg and heal by 33% just everything else in the game
  • The abundance of protection also can be problematic but i would hold back on it, since keep in mind death magic should be a defence line for every build not just the tank ones(that clearly benefit from it). What could be a nice change in game over all is to reduce protection dmg reduction to 22% instead of 33% so it would get nerf by 33% too.

For now this is what I'd start with to tone it down a bit and see how it goesKeep in mind this is nowhere close to the spambrand or the insane dmg of ranger or power renegade, yes this build is tanky (the signet one can't die unless perma cced by 2 ppl) but outside of lichform the dmg is trash.Try to fight a fb/condi rev duo, you'll get perma cc to death while being overloaded with condis xD

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@"Leonidrex.5649" said:

Thats not really a breakdown..but I can only assume WvW because outside of Cavalier's and Knight's this level of toughness is impossible in PvP.

add to it 20+ carapace and here you go

Armor is different from toughness thought. On your link you do have 2125 toughness. (From what I can see you got rabid amulet with rune of the undead)For the same amount of toughness an heavy armor profession will end up with 3292 armor where you are at 3013. If a guardian care to build for "armor" he will easily reach 3593 point of armor with this same setup which is 1 stack of death carapace away from the necromancer's maximum of 3613. (This is just to put things into perspective)

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If necro gets nerfed hard then as zdragon said, we need invulns and other stuff. It's our only line of defense vs being cornered.

Before this, we were basically food for a lot of classes farmed by thieves mesmers rangers, etc, it's about time we finally get proper defenses to actually waddle out alive.

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If necro goes defensive they have no damage at all. The builds you are all talking about are useless. They do nothing. Offer no support. Offer no damage. They just exist to soak damage. Just ignore them and they will lose. Then when they are last left chain some CCs and they die.

If a necro builds full tank they will survive but will never be able to kill anything. People just need to adapt and switch to new builds. I have seen some really good warriors/rangers using power damage and killing everything.

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@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHq1o6i36_sA wells build (not viable by defnition) in a free for all arena where you can leech kills as everyone fights everyone. All you need to do is standing in your wells (that random encounters will switch focus then) and leech kills.

It's getting ridiculous at this point! That video proves nothing but that you are cherry picking anti core arguments.

@Spellhunter.9675 said:Nice footage. But take it to 2v2 ranked and you'll be dead in 15 seconds.This sums it up.

@"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:It's worse than I thought. I can imagine this with a FB just tearing through Ranked.You won't win one single match with that setup. The FB will die to a 2v1 focus first, while the 3 defense traitlines necro can't do shit to support him (no burst support, no heal support, the rez attempt will be interrupted because: no stability). After the FB is downed, the necro will die to a 2v1.

Double firebrand is a whole different league than this low rank farm combo.

Btw.: How does thishttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98885/welcome-to-the-cc-spam-meta#latestfit to "core is broken"? In a cc spam meta core is the biggest loser.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Let me just say one thing: you posted a oneshot video of soulbeast a few months ago. I suggest you do a core necro farming video with a similar build (maul and worldy impact and all that stuff are still crazy esp against a target that has to facetank all that kitten).

I took you up on that challenge after reading this.

Can't wait to see what everyone has to say about it after this is posted, especially the Necro Mains.

This is that build that I had noticed pre-patch btw, and boy did it turn out to be really strong post-patch.

I wouldn't normally go out of my way like this for a class I do not main, but this is crazy. I do not take damage for 10 minutes in the video. It needs to be discussed & reviewed boys. When people start honing in more on builds like this, we're gonna have a problem with game functionality.

Now my only question is for you to go out and do a bunker build on every other profession and see how it holds up over the past few days ive seen several bunker builds on several professions and many of them seem prettty strong trevor. Lets not only question the necro here but also the fact that just generally the meta shifted too close to bunker than we were hoping for.

As some one else also pointed out any death in the anrea also provides life force which will not happen in spvp matches as common as they do in your video. So your sustain will actually see a massive drop in matches where a study rate of LF is not incoming from deaths you had no part in.

Can you also really make claims based only on FFA where not only your tiny bits of damage are hitting your target but anyone else hitting you is also hitting your target which results in your target taking more damage than you would actually normally do since there is no easy way for people to not hit each other even if both might be trying to hit you.

Overall you need to consider all of the above things before you start claiming "its too much" There are several factors that really dont come to the light in FFA that would change in a sPvP match.

Is a it a strong bunker build yes will some one kill it in 1v1 prob not if 3 people jump on you and are not also hitting each other its prob gonna be the same result as necro pre patch... you die.

Just keep the above things in mind before hand testing it in actual matches might be a more accurate representation if you are going to do a video FFA has way too many factors that actually make the build stronger than what it is.

Also where is the vide of your ranger doing insane amounts of dps after the patch dont think i didnt see you doing that the other night ;)If we are going to cherry pick i want to cherry pick about why your dps is still so high and near insta melts anything it looks at especially if they dont see you coming.

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The thing is that damage was reduced across the board and everything is magnified right now, I would never play that build, the damage is low, unreliable, you have no mobility (Spectral Walk, Wurm), or a reliable source of boon corruption (Boon Corrupt). Nevertheless I would do the following changes:

  • Eternal Life: Lower life force gain when not in shroud up to a threshold of 10%.
  • Remove protection when entering shroud.
  • Give Stunbreak when leaving shroud (why when leaving because entering shroud to mitigate damage after a CC or incoming burst is natural, taking the damage while in shroud is good enough so you don't need a stubreak when entering shroud, however you're also vulnerable to a CC chain and you will basically need to stay in shroud to tank the damage, so breaking stun when leaving shroud promotes active gameplay. On the plus side you break the CC and have the chance to counter attack or reposition, but at the same time you're not in shroud anymore and for instance a better target for enemies.
  • If stunbreak when leaving shroud is given, give it an Internal Cooldown of 15 seconds to start (could be increased depending on how it performs), and a visual effect that tells you when it is available.
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@ZDragon.3046 said:

Let me just say one thing: you posted a oneshot video of soulbeast a few months ago. I suggest you do a core necro farming video with a similar build (maul and worldy impact and all that stuff are still crazy esp against a target that has to facetank all that kitten).

I took you up on that challenge after reading this.

Can't wait to see what everyone has to say about it after this is posted, especially the Necro Mains.

This is that build that I had noticed pre-patch btw, and boy did it turn out to be really strong post-patch.

I wouldn't normally go out of my way like this for a class I do not main, but this is crazy. I do not take damage for 10 minutes in the video. It needs to be discussed & reviewed boys. When people start honing in more on builds like this, we're gonna have a problem with game functionality.

Now my only question is for you to go out and do a bunker build on every other profession and see how it holds up over the past few days ive seen several bunker builds on several professions and many of them seem prettty strong trevor.

Already went there. Everything else has to actually kite and disengage, and heal cycle. The Core Necro literally does not need to exit combat. It actually thrives the more targets there are to hit, due to the massive overly large amount of life steal. Also, due to it NOT being a self might propagating machine, it seriously benefits from being in team fights when others are granting it might, and fury for that matter. This build is over powered man.

As some one else also pointed out any death in the anrea also provides life force which will not happen in spvp matches as common as they do in your video. So your sustain will actually see a massive drop in matches where a study rate of LF is not incoming from deaths you had no part in.

Nah, this build actually doesn't need life force it's so tanky. I'll make a 2v2/conquest video on it by the end of the day here.

Can you also really make claims based only on FFA where not only your tiny bits of damage are hitting your target but anyone else hitting you is also hitting your target which results in your target taking more damage than you would actually normally do since there is no easy way for people to not hit each other even if both might be trying to hit you.

Yes because in actual team fights, my team mates actually focus a target. In 1v1s so far, nothing, even top players can't get this off a node 1v1. And you can 1v2 for like 5 minutes before even 2x heavy DPS players can realistically kill you or even make you retreat off the node for a decap.

Also where is the vide of your ranger doing insane amounts of dps after the patch dont think i didnt see you doing that the other night ;)If we are going to cherry pick i want to cherry pick about why your dps is still so high and near insta melts anything it looks at especially if they dont see you coming.

Oh I'll get to it. I figured out how to still kill a top 100 FB in about 2 seconds. Also noticed that Druid worked to viability again, so I'll get around to that as well. Just right now Core Necro is blowing my mind because you actually don't take damage on this build. I keep hearing people post-patch say: "Bunker Druid is back" No it's not. Druid is a 1v1 Duelist at best still, and you can kite 1v2 with it if you're good, but you can't hold a node with it. Druid has long since lost its Bunker status. This Core Necro however, is a true Bunker spec.

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@"Levijeh.9643" said:The thing is that damage was reduced across the board and everything is magnified right now, I would never play that build, the damage is low, unreliable, you have no mobility (Spectral Walk, Wurm), or a reliable source of boon corruption (Boon Corrupt). Nevertheless I would do the following changes:

  • Eternal Life: Lower life force gain when not in shroud to 10%.
  • Remove protection when entering shroud.
  • Give Stunbreak when leaving shroud (why when leaving because entering shroud to mitigate damage after a CC or burst is natural, taking the damage while in shroud is good enough, but you're also vulnerable to a CC chain and you will basically need to stay in shroud to tank the damage, so breaking stun when leaving shroud promotes active gameplay. On the plus side you break the CC and have the chance to counter attack or reposition, but at the same time you're not in shroud anymore and for instance a better target.
  • If stunbreak when leaving shroud is given, give it an Internal Cooldown of 15 seconds to start (could be increased depending on how it performs), and a visual effect that tells you when it is available.

I noticed last night that Eternal Life is bugged, the LF generation wasn't working, which is why I was using Death Perception still.

This build doesn't need a bunch of mobility. Alternative Rune selections are definitely within: Rune of Speed, Rune of Eagle, Rune of Dolyak, but it really does not need a bunch of mobility and escape skills. I think this is where the Necro mains have been overlooking such a build structure, because these guys have been used to "necroing" for so long that their tunnel visioning the importance of traditional Necro skills & play style, but I'm telling you as an old Bunker Druid main coming into this patch and looking at this with no bias or pigeonholed opinions, the Core Necro is now a Bunker. It doesn't need a bunch of a boon removal and walk/wurm teleports. It needs to be able to stand on a node and not die, while not having to leave that node.

I'll run this in 2v2s and Conquest today, then post some realistic performance footage.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Levijeh.9643" said:The thing is that damage was reduced across the board and everything is magnified right now, I would never play that build, the damage is low, unreliable, you have no mobility (Spectral Walk, Wurm), or a reliable source of boon corruption (Boon Corrupt). Nevertheless I would do the following changes:
  • Eternal Life: Lower life force gain when not in shroud to 10%.
  • Remove protection when entering shroud.
  • Give Stunbreak when leaving shroud (why when leaving because entering shroud to mitigate damage after a CC or burst is natural, taking the damage while in shroud is good enough, but you're also vulnerable to a CC chain and you will basically need to stay in shroud to tank the damage, so breaking stun when leaving shroud promotes active gameplay. On the plus side you break the CC and have the chance to counter attack or reposition, but at the same time you're not in shroud anymore and for instance a better target.
  • If stunbreak when leaving shroud is given, give it an Internal Cooldown of 15 seconds to start (could be increased depending on how it performs), and a visual effect that tells you when it is available.

I noticed last night that Eternal Life is bugged, the LF generation wasn't working, which is why I was using Death Perception still.

This build doesn't need a bunch of mobility. Alternative Rune selections are definitely within: Rune of Speed, Rune of Eagle, Rune of Dolyak, but it really does not need a bunch of mobility and escape skills. I think this is where the Necro mains have been overlooking such a build structure, because these guys have been used to "necroing" for so long that their tunnel visioning the importance of traditional Necro skills & play style, but I'm telling you as an old Bunker Druid main coming into this patch and looking at this with no bias or pigeonholed opinions, the Core Necro is now a Bunker. It doesn't need a bunch of a boon removal and walk/wurm teleports. It needs to be able to stand on a node and not die, while not having to leave that node.

I'll run this in 2v2s and Conquest today, then post some realistic performance footage.

I suggest you fight plat 2+ players to really put the build into test. The video is showing the build killing bots basically.

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