Jormag IS Koda

[The Greyhawk.9107]

@Stephen.6312 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Stephen.6312 said:You're assuming that the origin of Tyrian humans hasn't been (at least partially) resolved. LS4, "Chaos Theory", suggests that the amnesia suffered by Tyrian humans searching for their origins is linked to temporal and physical displacement from the Crystal Desert, quite possibly as a result of magical fallout from the Great Battle at the Gates of Heaven; the ferocious conflict between the "human" gods that saw Dwayna's pantheon cast some very arcane magic.

In my opinion, the amnesia suffered by Tyrian humans searching for their origins is tied to The Exodus. Both events involve the wide-scale memory wipe of large swathes of humanity. That is to say, the spell that we refer to as The Exodus, possibly cast by Lyssa at Dwayna's behest, hid not only the persistent existence of mankind's gods on Tyria, but also the region of Tyria from which humans of the northern continent came.

There's absolutely nothing in Season 4 that ever touches or hints to touch upon the origin of humanity.

Nor is there really any solid suggestion of amnesia - the Orrian History Scroll talking about "Lyssa helped them forget the past" never 1) specifies what past it refers to, or 2) specifies who "them" is (humans? the other gods? both? a third party?).

But nothing in Season 4, let alone in Chaos Theory, at all ever suggests an implied relation to humanity arriving on the world.

It's certainly never openly stated. That doesn't mean that it is out of the realm of possibility. Of all the scenarios that make sense to my mind, this one is one of the most compelling.

Me becoming the king of Tyria technically isn't out of the realm of possibilities either, doesn't mean that its going to happen.

[Stephen.6312]

@The Greyhawk.9107 said:

@Stephen.6312 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Stephen.6312 said:You're assuming that the origin of Tyrian humans hasn't been (at least partially) resolved. LS4, "Chaos Theory", suggests that the amnesia suffered by Tyrian humans searching for their origins is linked to temporal and physical displacement from the Crystal Desert, quite possibly as a result of magical fallout from the Great Battle at the Gates of Heaven; the ferocious conflict between the "human" gods that saw Dwayna's pantheon cast some very arcane magic.

In my opinion, the amnesia suffered by Tyrian humans searching for their origins is tied to The Exodus. Both events involve the wide-scale memory wipe of large swathes of humanity. That is to say, the spell that we refer to as The Exodus, possibly cast by Lyssa at Dwayna's behest, hid not only the persistent existence of mankind's gods on Tyria, but also the region of Tyria from which humans of the northern continent came.

There's absolutely nothing in Season 4 that ever touches or hints to touch upon the origin of humanity.

Nor is there really any solid suggestion of amnesia - the Orrian History Scroll talking about "Lyssa helped them forget the past" never 1) specifies what past it refers to, or 2) specifies who "them" is (humans? the other gods? both? a third party?).

But nothing in Season 4, let alone in Chaos Theory, at all ever suggests an implied relation to humanity arriving on the world.

It's certainly never openly stated. That doesn't mean that it is out of the realm of possibility. Of all the scenarios that make sense to my mind, this one is one of the most compelling.

Me becoming the king of Tyria technically isn't out of the realm of possibilities either, doesn't mean that its going to happen.

Lol. Back to the Maguuma with you!

[The Greyhawk.9107]

@Stephen.6312 said:

@The Greyhawk.9107 said:

@Stephen.6312 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Stephen.6312 said:You're assuming that the origin of Tyrian humans hasn't been (at least partially) resolved. LS4, "Chaos Theory", suggests that the amnesia suffered by Tyrian humans searching for their origins is linked to temporal and physical displacement from the Crystal Desert, quite possibly as a result of magical fallout from the Great Battle at the Gates of Heaven; the ferocious conflict between the "human" gods that saw Dwayna's pantheon cast some very arcane magic.

In my opinion, the amnesia suffered by Tyrian humans searching for their origins is tied to The Exodus. Both events involve the wide-scale memory wipe of large swathes of humanity. That is to say, the spell that we refer to as The Exodus, possibly cast by Lyssa at Dwayna's behest, hid not only the persistent existence of mankind's gods on Tyria, but also the region of Tyria from which humans of the northern continent came.

There's absolutely nothing in Season 4 that ever touches or hints to touch upon the origin of humanity.

Nor is there really any solid suggestion of amnesia - the Orrian History Scroll talking about "Lyssa helped them forget the past" never 1) specifies what past it refers to, or 2) specifies who "them" is (humans? the other gods? both? a third party?).

But nothing in Season 4, let alone in Chaos Theory, at all ever suggests an implied relation to humanity arriving on the world.

It's certainly never openly stated. That doesn't mean that it is out of the realm of possibility. Of all the scenarios that make sense to my mind, this one is one of the most compelling.

Me becoming the king of Tyria technically isn't out of the realm of possibilities either, doesn't mean that its going to happen.

Lol. Back to the Maguuma with you!

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Stephen.6312 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Stephen.6312 said:You're assuming that the origin of Tyrian humans hasn't been (at least partially) resolved. LS4, "Chaos Theory", suggests that the amnesia suffered by Tyrian humans searching for their origins is linked to temporal and physical displacement from the Crystal Desert, quite possibly as a result of magical fallout from the Great Battle at the Gates of Heaven; the ferocious conflict between the "human" gods that saw Dwayna's pantheon cast some very arcane magic.

In my opinion, the amnesia suffered by Tyrian humans searching for their origins is tied to The Exodus. Both events involve the wide-scale memory wipe of large swathes of humanity. That is to say, the spell that we refer to as The Exodus, possibly cast by Lyssa at Dwayna's behest, hid not only the persistent existence of mankind's gods on Tyria, but also the region of Tyria from which humans of the northern continent came.

There's absolutely nothing in Season 4 that ever touches or hints to touch upon the origin of humanity.

Nor is there really any solid suggestion of amnesia - the Orrian History Scroll talking about "Lyssa helped them forget the past" never 1) specifies what past it refers to, or 2) specifies who "them" is (humans? the other gods? both? a third party?).

But nothing in Season 4, let alone in Chaos Theory, at all ever suggests an implied relation to humanity arriving on the world.

It's certainly never openly stated. That doesn't mean that it is out of the realm of possibility. Of all the scenarios that make sense to my mind, this one is one of the most compelling.

There is a vast difference between "not out of the realm of possibility" and "has been (partially) resolved". The difference is wider than the Atlantic Ocean.

There's even a vast difference between "not out of the realm of possibility" and "it suggests". One larger than the Pacific Ocean.

That difference is the same difference between implications of canon lore, and the fabrication of head canon / fan canon.

Is what you said outside the realm of possibility? Definitely not.

Is it suggested or partially resolved? Also definitely not.

@Teratus.2859 said:Isn't the Claw of Jormag named as such because it was first encounted by the Kodan and it was they who give it the name/title of Claw of Jormag?I don't think it's ever suggested who named the Claws, or first encountered them.

That said, while the kodan call Drakkar the mouthpiece of Jormag, the Sons of Svanir during the idol ceremony events call it the voice of Jormag (note the lowercase). Which I find curious in relation to this thread.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

Just an FYI, at least one Kodan considers a similar possiblity in the newest release

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spirits%27_Refuge

Kodan Villager (1): She fought bravely. Until her dying breath, she tried to protect us. We've never gone without a Voice.Kodan Villager (2): Others have managed. But has any kodan Voice had to contend with Elder Dragons?Kodan Villager (1): Well, during the great Dragonstorm of the last awakening, our Voices told the kodan to wait and hide.Kodan Villager (2): Maybe an Elder Dragon spoke to the Voices then. As Jormag tries to speak to us now.Kodan Villager (1): Then we would not be children of Koda; we would be in debt to dragons. You know better than that.

[Teratus.2859]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:I don't think it's ever suggested who named the Claws, or first encountered them.

That said, while the kodan call Drakkar the mouthpiece of Jormag, the Sons of Svanir during the idol ceremony events call it the voice of Jormag (note the lowercase). Which I find curious in relation to this thread.

I don't think it is mentioned specifically either.It is mentioned that the Kodan were around during the last Dragon awakening though and with Jormag awakening in the North and driving the Kodan south it's possible they were the first to have contact with Jormag during this cycle, potentially even prior to the events of Eye of the North in much a similar way that Svanir did.I don't think there is any confirmed information or statements on this though, I cannot find any myself anyway but Jormag's icebrood does contain both Norn and Kodan so it's definitely been corrupting both races for a long time.

As far as the Norn go they too had contact with Jormag as far back as Gw1 however I do not know if the Dragons name was ever disclosed to them, Sons of Svanir usually refer to Jormag as just Dragon so in the early years of the cult they may not have even known it's real name as I don't think Svanir did either as I am pretty sure there was never any mention of the name Jormag in Gw1.

I don't know if there is any information about when the Kodan and Norn first met each other either but I'd bet it was after Jormag's rise since it was Jormag who ultimately drove both of them South.(Kodan lore even claims a group of Kodan went south and never returned which they now believe to be the origins of the Norn race so I expect the two races really didn't interact or know of each other before Jormag awakening in this era forced them closer together)

What I wonder is if this encounter took place before, during or after the Norn marched north to kill Jormag, or whether the Norn even knew Jormag by anything other than Dragon at that point.. again I can find no specific information on this.But it would make sense if during those events the two races met for the first time and the Kodan having been around during the last rising could have passed on knowledge of Jormag and it's minions to the norn who were possibly either marching to kill it or fleeing from the loss they suffered.Part of that information could have been Jormags name along with the Kodan's names for it's Icebrood and Claws of Jormag.

Then again Jormag itself could have named its own minions and spred that information although I expect these names have changed over the many different cycles among the various races that have encountered them.Recorded lore after all only goes back so far and the dragons have awoken and slept many times before.

Kralkatorriks branded minions were named after the Dragonbrand that cuts across Ascalon so I would assume that it was the Charr that originally named his minions since they were very likely the first to encounter them in this era.I expect this is a common occurance in this universe, much like in Gw1 and by extention Gw2 Humans continue to refer to Primordus minions as Destroyers because when we first encounted them in Gw1 it was the name Ogden and Vekk used to identify them leading to our Human characters asking what a Destroyer was and amusingly turing to Vekk and asking what he was as well since this was also our first time encountering an Asura.

[ZDragon.3046]

Dont scare me with plot twist like this jfc seriously if this is true im gonna lose my mind ?

[Sykper.6583]

@"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:Just an FYI, at least one Kodan considers a similar possiblity in the newest release

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spirits%27_Refuge

Kodan Villager (1): She fought bravely. Until her dying breath, she tried to protect us. We've never gone without a Voice.Kodan Villager (2): Others have managed. But has any kodan Voice had to contend with Elder Dragons?Kodan Villager (1): Well, during the great Dragonstorm of the last awakening, our Voices told the kodan to wait and hide.Kodan Villager (2): Maybe an Elder Dragon spoke to the Voices then. As Jormag tries to speak to us now.Kodan Villager (1): Then we would not be children of Koda; we would be in debt to dragons. You know better than that.

That's an unsettling but intriguing notion to put in the game so blatantly.I still think Jormag is playing the long game, and the more I think on it, Jormag's playing a similar game to Zhaitan with manipulating emotions. He's probably more cunning, Zhaitan was relatively blunt given his rule over death, as in "Since all of your friends perished, why not join them?"

Jormag's way more nuanced I think.