Jump to content
  • Sign Up

QoL Buff and Nerf Wishlist/Request for Revenant Skills/Traits, but for the new patch.


Shao.7236

Recommended Posts

@Shao.7236 said:I guess people just want no damage for condi rev then, let it be you. Have CtA be the thing it is and EtD completely nerfed into oblivion.

Lol. The skill is not op at all like the way you’re trying to make it out to be. There are many ways to stop a rev from even using this skill before he lands with it. Revenants don’t have a reliable way to give itself stability.

Once again, you cannot spam the skill and most classes have ways to deal with the CC. People are not used to having to bring stun breaks or stability because they were relying on their friendly FB. Now you also have to supplement their stability with your own. It’s simply a matter of adjusting your builds.

Finally, you have your cost percentage wrong. The skill isn’t 20%, it’s more like 60% if you just swapped over to Mallyx. Unless I’m misunderstanding what you we’re saying.

Whats making the current rev look overtuned is the Hearld true nature skill on Mallyx. That’s what needs changing.

Regardless, the energy costs on skills are getting ridiculous now. IMO if we’re going to have skills that cost 50% or more of our initial pool, we need to get rid of CDs altogether.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Shao.7236 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:I cant really say if i agree with too much of this or not right now condi revs are fairly strong and some of the things here will make it stronger for sure.Even when i play an offensive necro its hard for me to take condi revs down right now because boon corruption was nerfed its a lot harder to hit their resistance boon which effectively lets them run right over me as a necro. Depending on my setup if im not reaper i have near 0 cc potential against them because resistance negates fear too.Why do you think Torment is effective? It's just one condition. Out of everything else, the torment burst is extremely telegraphed and CCable if the Revenant is not having Jalis.

I mean they are at least on mace 3 but there are some methods of applying it that are less obvious while mace 3 is hard to land ive seen what happens when it does land with the right combo of skills and its deady which is fine imo im not saying nerf it but i dont think it needs to be stronger than what it is right now fixing quickness to work with the skill is fine as per the standard of how quickness works with all other skills. But some of the other changes seem like it might be doing a bit much but again im not the pro with rev i admit this.

I do think that renegade bow is clunky to use though (still confused on why they gave that elite a short bow in the first place and not a GS) the statue in the black citadel depicts the legend with a GS not a bow in hand.I prefer the shortbow, if only the skills would actually hit, I'd run hybrid.

I mean its got some cool skills i just wanted to point out that detail. But yes pleas fix the short bow skills in general skill 2 and 3 often feel odd to use and almost never hit anything thats not a AI pve mob. Skill 4 is weird that you can only aim it in a very small window to the front of you slightly to far to the side and it considers it to be a LoS issue. Skill 5 is one of the few skills that works properly aside from the auto attack thats not overly clunky in some way.

Surge of the Mists should probably combined into the staff 3 skill and require that you block an attack before the skill flips overThis way you can revert it back to the old version which activates instantly but you need to block an attack to use it. This gives players the same situation as rangers counter attack. But what they cant do is make it near as instant as it was with no indication i think if it was any faster start up than what it was now it would not be something you can react to point blank basically you would still be guessing randomly on when you think they are going to push you with it.I think the idea they have is fine but they think people are slow and snails, which kills the skill for offense.

Maybe there idea is that its not suppose to be purely for offense i mean it is an evade too and cc's that evade at the same time are certainly not going to get their damage restored in future patches which might imply they dont want it to be used for offense in-fact the weapon as a whole is not even suppose to be geared for offense. Why it was ever allowed to do so in such a way to start with was possibly part of the problem. It was extremely common to be gun down by dps rev with a staff before the patch as opposed to swords mean while every skill on the staff screams defense / support. ITs hard to say really. Im all for making it less clunky but i dont think the goal was for it to be allowed to be heavily offensive as it once was.

Soothing Stone removing all conditions and giving barrier would basically mean a you probably need to rip all or most of the resistance away from myallx as at this point you would be darn near condition immune with the right setups.Not so much, it would reward people for using an already underpowered heal skill at the right time because most of Jalis survivability comes from Vengeful Hammers which was nerfed with Steadfast, unlike Herald Heal which can still eat everything and it's not getting changed anytime soon, we all know it. Power Rev needs some love too with it

I dont agree i think these video clips are good examples of why the skill does not need that much of a buff you in both these clips other heals which would not have removed any conditions aside from heralds would have seen that none of that pressure was removed in both examples enough condi pressure was removed to effectively let you breath if you had needed to move to a safer location or even retreat you could have. Ideally i dont think soothing stone needs that kind or that much of a buff just because a skill is underused by rev players does not mean it needs a buff.

Signet of Vampirism is a perfectly good example. IT was underused and considered to be under powered in the previous patch and right now its one of the best heals a necro can use provided its used with the trait. I would say its even close to being on par with consume conditions in terms of strength depending on how much other condi clear you have in your kit it might even be better than consume conditions.

Do i think soothing stone could be better yes do i think it needs that much of a buff a 13 condi removal with barrier per condi removed..... no..... revs have 2 healing skills and i think its fair to say that because of that the power of each heal should be split to some extent you cant have 1 heal thats on par with something like consume conditions and then have a 2nd heal thats just as good or better that really wouldnt be fair in my personal opinion.

Charged Mists I do agree that this can be a bit clunky to activate some times with the 10 energy requirement i think for QOL purposes they should remove that and make it give energy on any legend swap how ever 25 is probably too high for that situation something of 15 to 20 at most would be more fair.Possibly even swap it so that now swapping legends gives 33% or 50% of remaining energy to the new legend or something might be more unique.I wouldn't be against transfering 25% energy left rather than forcing to have less than 25%. SotM is more viable because it's instant, 25% is about as good as SotM as it gives one extra skill to use. Because of bugs as Renegade, it's rather easy to tug at in PvP but it's still clunky and the SotM of Renegade is worthless anyway. Honestly, just giving 25% is not as bad as it sounds.

Again yes QoL fix this no excuse or complaints here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@Shao.7236 said:I guess people just want no damage for condi rev then, let it be you. Have CtA be the thing it is and EtD completely nerfed into oblivion.

Lol. The skill is not op at all like the way you’re trying to make it out to be. There are many ways to stop a rev from even using this skill before he lands with it. Revenants don’t have a reliable way to give itself stability.It's OP because it leaves too much energy and can be easily reused, aka spammed.Once again, you cannot spam the skill and most classes have ways to deal with the CC. People are not used to having to bring stun breaks or stability because they were relying on their friendly FB. Now you also have to supplement their stability with your own. It’s simply a matter of adjusting your builds.Why do you think I have been saying the Herald Condition is inferior in past posts? For a reason as mostly because it's weak to heavy CC just like a Necro. There's still not enough of a consequence to CtA and that contributes to the power creep.Finally, you have your cost percentage wrong. The skill isn’t 20%, it’s more like 60% if you just swapped over to Mallyx. Unless I’m misunderstanding what you we’re saying.It's even less at barely 10% for a full Mallyx burst on fresh swap.
Takes one evade to avoid.With leap still leaves 10% spare which is too much after this much pressure.
Takes two evades to fully avoid and doesn't leave the user vulnerable.Whats making the current rev look overtuned is the Hearld true nature skill on Mallyx. That’s what needs changing.I've already suggested a radius changedown to 360 while keeping it's passive a 600 just like they did with Shiro.Regardless, the energy costs on skills are getting ridiculous now. IMO if we’re going to have skills that cost 50% or more of our initial pool, we need to get rid of CDs altogether.There's nothing ridiculous about 35% Energy and 5 Seconds CD on a CC with this large of a radius. Phase Traversal has always been this much and people worked it out just fine.

@ZDragon.3046 said:I cant really say if i agree with too much of this or not right now condi revs are fairly strong and some of the things here will make it stronger for sure.Even when i play an offensive necro its hard for me to take condi revs down right now because boon corruption was nerfed its a lot harder to hit their resistance boon which effectively lets them run right over me as a necro. Depending on my setup if im not reaper i have near 0 cc potential against them because resistance negates fear too.Why do you think Torment is effective? It's just one condition. Out of everything else, the torment burst is extremely telegraphed and CCable if the Revenant is not having Jalis.

I mean they are at least on mace 3 but there are some methods of applying it that are less obvious while mace 3 is hard to land ive seen what happens when it does land with the right combo of skills and its deady which is fine imo im not saying nerf it but i dont think it needs to be stronger than what it is right now fixing quickness to work with the skill is fine as per the standard of how quickness works with all other skills. But some of the other changes seem like it might be doing a bit much but again im not the pro with rev i admit this.It's about 15 Torment like this, but it's "only" Torment which is less than a guard burst. So nothing to real fear unless you have a FB constantly messing you up on the side.

Maybe there idea is that its not suppose to be purely for offense i mean it is an evade too and cc's that evade at the same time are certainly not going to get their damage restored in future patches which might imply they dont want it to be used for offense in-fact the weapon as a whole is not even suppose to be geared for offense. Why it was ever allowed to do so in such a way to start with was possibly part of the problem. It was extremely common to be gun down by dps rev with a staff before the patch as opposed to swords mean while every skill on the staff screams defense / support. ITs hard to say really. Im all for making it less clunky but i dont think the goal was for it to be allowed to be heavily offensive as it once was.

250ms would still worlds better than now, there's nothing this skill can do to anyone with a brain.

Soothing Stone removing all conditions and giving barrier would basically mean a you probably need to rip all or most of the resistance away from myallx as at this point you would be darn near condition immune with the right setups.Not so much, it would reward people for using an already underpowered heal skill at the right time because most of Jalis survivability comes from Vengeful Hammers which was nerfed with Steadfast, unlike Herald Heal which can still eat everything and it's not getting changed anytime soon, we all know it. Power Rev needs some love too with it

I dont agree i think these video clips are good examples of why the skill does not need that much of a buff you in both these clips other heals which would not have removed any conditions aside from heralds would have seen that none of that pressure was removed in both examples enough condi pressure was removed to effectively let you breath if you had needed to move to a safer location or even retreat you could have. Ideally i dont think soothing stone needs that kind or that much of a buff just because a skill is underused by rev players does not mean it needs a buff.Do i think soothing stone could be better yes do i think it needs that much of a buff a 13 condi removal with barrier per condi removed..... no..... revs have 2 healing skills and i think its fair to say that because of that the power of each heal should be split to some extent you cant have 1 heal thats on par with something like consume conditions and then have a 2nd heal thats just as good or better that really wouldnt be fair in my personal opinion.

This is mostly for Power, not Conditions and even if people would use Conditions, it's just Barrier and that would indulge in giving the player a break since right now you can keep pressuring without much of a problem. Core Revenant took a big hit this patch by losing one condition on transfer and have it be telegraphed on Legend Swap, people have to earn that cleanse by not being interrupted and timing it right. Why should Herald get a free ticket again with it's Invulnerable frames and shield cleansing, the skill itself also doesn't take proper timing like Soothing Stone does, those clips were to show that even if I am making the most out of my heal skill, I'm still in at a major disadvantage. The idea is to reward people for doing things right during the spam, should Jalis be just a bit more rewarding as it is the worst out of all skills, even the Renegade one at 50% condition damage reduction.

Getting 7,618 barrier for cleansing 13 conditions is also far from well, you know too much when you're the center of attention and just removed the entire condition line of the game under all that pressure. It's not like I am healing for more than 5k still and the healing power scaling is still horrible. The biggest complain is how even when you have 5 conditions to remove, you still don't remove the most important.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Shao.7236 said:

@Shao.7236 said:I guess people just want no damage for condi rev then, let it be you. Have CtA be the thing it is and EtD completely nerfed into oblivion.

Lol. The skill is not op at all like the way you’re trying to make it out to be. There are many ways to stop a rev from even using this skill before he lands with it. Revenants don’t have a reliable way to give itself stability.It's OP because it leaves too much energy and can be easily reused, aka spammed.Once again, you cannot spam the skill and most classes have ways to deal with the CC. People are not used to having to bring stun breaks or stability because they were relying on their friendly FB. Now you also have to supplement their stability with your own. It’s simply a matter of adjusting your builds.Why do you think I have been saying the Herald Condition is inferior in past posts? For a reason as mostly because it's weak to heavy CC just like a Necro. There's still not enough of a consequence to CtA and that contributes to the power creep.Finally, you have your cost percentage wrong. The skill isn’t 20%, it’s more like 60% if you just swapped over to Mallyx. Unless I’m misunderstanding what you we’re saying.It's even less at barely 10% for a full Mallyx burst on fresh swap.
Takes one evade to avoid.With leap still leaves 10% spare which is too much after this much pressure.
Takes two evades to fully avoid and doesn't leave the user vulnerable.Whats making the current rev look overtuned is the Hearld true nature skill on Mallyx. That’s what needs changing.I've already suggested a radius changedown to 360 while keeping it's passive a 600 just like they did with Shiro.Regardless, the energy costs on skills are getting ridiculous now. IMO if we’re going to have skills that cost 50% or more of our initial pool, we need to get rid of CDs altogether.There's nothing ridiculous about 35% Energy and 5 Seconds CD on a CC with this large of a radius. Phase Traversal has always been this much and people worked it out just fine.

@ZDragon.3046 said:I cant really say if i agree with too much of this or not right now condi revs are fairly strong and some of the things here will make it stronger for sure.Even when i play an offensive necro its hard for me to take condi revs down right now because boon corruption was nerfed its a lot harder to hit their resistance boon which effectively lets them run right over me as a necro. Depending on my setup if im not reaper i have near 0 cc potential against them because resistance negates fear too.Why do you think Torment is effective? It's just one condition. Out of everything else, the torment burst is extremely telegraphed and CCable if the Revenant is not having Jalis.

I mean they are at least on mace 3 but there are some methods of applying it that are less obvious while mace 3 is hard to land ive seen what happens when it does land with the right combo of skills and its deady which is fine imo im not saying nerf it but i dont think it needs to be stronger than what it is right now fixing quickness to work with the skill is fine as per the standard of how quickness works with all other skills. But some of the other changes seem like it might be doing a bit much but again im not the pro with rev i admit this.It's about 15 Torment like this, but it's "only" Torment which is less than a guard burst. So nothing to real fear unless you have a FB constantly messing you up on the side.

Maybe there idea is that its not suppose to be purely for offense i mean it is an evade too and cc's that evade at the same time are certainly not going to get their damage restored in future patches which might imply they dont want it to be used for offense in-fact the weapon as a whole is not even suppose to be geared for offense. Why it was ever allowed to do so in such a way to start with was possibly part of the problem. It was extremely common to be gun down by dps rev with a staff before the patch as opposed to swords mean while every skill on the staff screams defense / support. ITs hard to say really. Im all for making it less clunky but i dont think the goal was for it to be allowed to be heavily offensive as it once was.

250ms would still worlds better than now, there's nothing this skill can do to anyone with a brain.

Soothing Stone removing all conditions and giving barrier would basically mean a you probably need to rip all or most of the resistance away from myallx as at this point you would be darn near condition immune with the right setups.Not so much, it would reward people for using an already underpowered heal skill at the right time because most of Jalis survivability comes from Vengeful Hammers which was nerfed with Steadfast, unlike Herald Heal which can still eat everything and it's not getting changed anytime soon, we all know it. Power Rev needs some love too with it

I dont agree i think these video clips are good examples of why the skill does not need that much of a buff you in both these clips other heals which would not have removed any conditions aside from heralds would have seen that none of that pressure was removed in both examples enough condi pressure was removed to effectively let you breath if you had needed to move to a safer location or even retreat you could have. Ideally i dont think soothing stone needs that kind or that much of a buff just because a skill is underused by rev players does not mean it needs a buff.Do i think soothing stone could be better yes do i think it needs that much of a buff a 13 condi removal with barrier per condi removed..... no..... revs have 2 healing skills and i think its fair to say that because of that the power of each heal should be split to some extent you cant have 1 heal thats on par with something like consume conditions and then have a 2nd heal thats just as good or better that really wouldnt be fair in my personal opinion.

This is mostly for Power, not Conditions and even if people would use Conditions, it's just Barrier and that would indulge in giving the player a break since right now you can keep pressuring without much of a problem. Core Revenant took a big hit this patch by losing one condition on transfer and have it be telegraphed on Legend Swap, people have to earn that cleanse by not being interrupted and timing it right. Why should Herald get a free ticket again with it's Invulnerable frames and shield cleansing, the skill itself also doesn't take proper timing like Soothing Stone does, those clips were to show that even if I am making the most out of my heal skill, I'm still in at a major disadvantage. The idea is to reward people for doing things right during the spam, should Jalis be just a bit more rewarding as it is the worst out of all skills, even the Renegade one at 50% condition damage reduction.

Getting 7,618 barrier for cleansing 13 conditions is also far from well, you know too much when you're the center of attention and just removed the entire condition line of the game under all that pressure. It's not like I am healing for more than 5k still and the healing power scaling is still horrible. The biggest complain is how even when you have 5 conditions to remove, you still don't remove the most important.

In reference to the replies to me:
  1. So, you’re talking about 2 different skills here. I am talking about only CtA, because that’s the CC skill your questioning. Mace 3, which is what your using in both videos, is NOT a CC skill.
  2. CtA is not spammable. Period. There is literally a 3 sec CD to it. So even if you had full 100 energy, you can’t spam it. Also, it costs 30 energy, which equates to 60% of your energy pool of a fresh Mallyx swap of 50 energy. If you wait unit 100 energy, it then costs you 30% of your energy pool.
  3. On your second video, you used both Mace 3 and CtA, only one of which is a CC, and leaves you with only 9 energy. A half decent player will easily notice this, promptly CC you and unload on you because you have no energy for a stunbreak, and then /laugh at you multiple times.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Shao.7236 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:I cant really say if i agree with too much of this or not right now condi revs are fairly strong and some of the things here will make it stronger for sure.Even when i play an offensive necro its hard for me to take condi revs down right now because boon corruption was nerfed its a lot harder to hit their resistance boon which effectively lets them run right over me as a necro. Depending on my setup if im not reaper i have near 0 cc potential against them because resistance negates fear too.Why do you think Torment is effective? It's just one condition. Out of everything else, the torment burst is extremely telegraphed and CCable if the Revenant is not having Jalis.

I mean they are at least on mace 3 but there are some methods of applying it that are less obvious while mace 3 is hard to land ive seen what happens when it does land with the right combo of skills and its deady which is fine imo im not saying nerf it but i dont think it needs to be stronger than what it is right now fixing quickness to work with the skill is fine as per the standard of how quickness works with all other skills. But some of the other changes seem like it might be doing a bit much but again im not the pro with rev i admit this.It's about 15 Torment like this, but it's "only" Torment which is less than a guard burst. So nothing to real fear unless you have a FB constantly messing you up on the side.

Again i dont have issues with the 15 torment because its only torment and that takes landing a specific combo to confirm im fine with it im not against rev having decent torment damage. Im simply saying i dont think condi rev needs drastic buffs. I personally wish necro had less condition spread so it could ramp that high that fast in combos xD.

I dont even want to talk about FB that is just nuts.

Maybe there idea is that its not suppose to be purely for offense i mean it is an evade too and cc's that evade at the same time are certainly not going to get their damage restored in future patches which might imply they dont want it to be used for offense in-fact the weapon as a whole is not even suppose to be geared for offense. Why it was ever allowed to do so in such a way to start with was possibly part of the problem. It was extremely common to be gun down by dps rev with a staff before the patch as opposed to swords mean while every skill on the staff screams defense / support. ITs hard to say really. Im all for making it less clunky but i dont think the goal was for it to be allowed to be heavily offensive as it once was.

250ms would still worlds better than now, there's nothing this skill can do to anyone with a brain.

I mean some times i turn my brain off in fights cause i think im winning and then get erased but im a filthy casual depending on the day im not always that determined to win again if they can find a way to improve it without making it near instant thats fine. But it cant be something that just instantly comes out. IF they are gonna do that i want my instant doom back. :disappointed_relieved:

I still suggest making the skill a 2 part thing where the cc portion is a flip over skill meaning something needs to happen before it can be used instantly this would give players a sense of warning even if the skill was reverted back to its instant push state.

Soothing Stone removing all conditions and giving barrier would basically mean a you probably need to rip all or most of the resistance away from myallx as at this point you would be darn near condition immune with the right setups.Not so much, it would reward people for using an already underpowered heal skill at the right time because most of Jalis survivability comes from Vengeful Hammers which was nerfed with Steadfast, unlike Herald Heal which can still eat everything and it's not getting changed anytime soon, we all know it. Power Rev needs some love too with it

I dont agree i think these video clips are good examples of why the skill does not need that much of a buff you in both these clips other heals which would not have removed any conditions aside from heralds would have seen that none of that pressure was removed in both examples enough condi pressure was removed to effectively let you breath if you had needed to move to a safer location or even retreat you could have. Ideally i dont think soothing stone needs that kind or that much of a buff just because a skill is underused by rev players does not mean it needs a buff.Do i think soothing stone could be better yes do i think it needs that much of a buff a 13 condi removal with barrier per condi removed..... no..... revs have 2 healing skills and i think its fair to say that because of that the power of each heal should be split to some extent you cant have 1 heal thats on par with something like consume conditions and then have a 2nd heal thats just as good or better that really wouldnt be fair in my personal opinion.

This is mostly for Power, not Conditions and even if people would use Conditions, it's just Barrier and that would indulge in giving the player a break since right now you can keep pressuring without much of a problem. Core Revenant took a big hit this patch by losing one condition on transfer and have it be telegraphed on Legend Swap, people have to earn that cleanse by not being interrupted and timing it right. Why should Herald get a free ticket again with it's Invulnerable frames and shield cleansing, the skill itself also doesn't take proper timing like Soothing Stone does, those clips were to show that even if I am making the most out of my heal skill, I'm still in at a major disadvantage. The idea is to reward people for doing things right during the spam, should Jalis be just a bit more rewarding as it is the worst out of all skills, even the Renegade one at 50% condition damage reduction.

Getting 7,618 barrier for cleansing 13 conditions is also far from well, you know too much when you're the center of attention and just removed the entire condition line of the game under all that pressure. It's not like I am healing for more than 5k still and the healing power scaling is still horrible. The biggest complain is how even when you have 5 conditions to remove, you still don't remove the most important.

Realistically you would rarely get all 13 conditions on you but thats kinda besides the point.

Well the herald heal does not remove conditions so when the effect ends they still are going to take damage. There are some condi burst in the game right now where 3s wont cover the remaining durations after the fact where they will immediately lose that hp they gained in those 2-3 tics while under the healing effect.The heals imo really do have different purposes and infuse light is more or less a double edged sword great against power burst not so much against face tanking condi where you still take the damage after the fact.

The fact that before with revs especially heralds was that they never had to stop attacking was part of the whole issue with them so the fact that now they can be pressured to some extent is not a bad thing.

Condition removal is a bit wonky only thief has heals that target specific conditions everyone else for the most part is in the same boat with their heals which is the most important to remove varies from person to person and from one build you face to another again though you have 2 healing skills in combat to help deal with that kind of stuff even if both heals dont specifically target condition removal. I just dont think it would be fair to give rev a heal thats nearly on par with other professions who only have 1 heal in any combat situation.

The closes of which you are asking for would be consume conditions and its on a profession that lacks the mobility or hard defenses of revenant who is actually had a pentacle strategy of focusing it first built around it for years. Even then what you are asking for might potentially might be better than consume conditions as the health restored would be protected by barrier while you have a second heal still optionally on legend swap. I really just cant see this buff you are suggesting being reasonably fair. At best lowering the cd of soothing stone a bit maybe by small portion for each of the 3 conditions removed would be acceptable to help make it a bit stronger or something but i mean giving rev an all clear WITH barrier ontop seems considerably unjustified.

I understand what you are saying about being rewarded for using skills at the right time but that does not always justify the means for a skill to be buffed as people will still use it at the wrong time and generally the skill will just be stronger. You really didnt solve the problem of people who would just spam it when they want hp like any other heal but you made it stronger because you wanted something that rewards when used properly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lonewolf Kai.3682

It goes to show energy costs are nothing to achieve good damage and you fell for it anyway, you going to argue about something completely different about someone who's been doing this for years now? This is for the sake of consistency to show the energy left, I would have pre casted Inspiring Reinforcement before leaving Mallyx into a dazing strike to maximize my leap efficiency and not get stunlocked, you still don't get it do you? Shiro players still have the same weakness at a higher cost, obviously nobody should burst after a fresh swap, that's not the point of the discussion, rather than to achieve almost the same level of utility Mallyx has extreme amount of energy to spare and that's not counting the stunbreak cost also being the lowest, the damage is almost incomparable. Increasing energy cost would keep the class in check rather than leaving it to it's easy state of use. CtA is spammable, you don't have to keep denying it, because I can't use it every 1 second doesn't mean it's not spam, if I have to counter every situational argument to justify my approach, might as well not even try to reason, there's always a way to counter everything, there's no going around it as the skill is obviously bloated and people don't want to accept it.

@ZDragon.3046 I would totally accept the idea of being OP if it wasn't for all the sustain, stability and Weakness nerf Jalis got since it's quite easy to delete his 30 second CD heal and the Mallyx one is only good under pressure, as Barrier is already a mechanic part of SotM which I'm glad they buffed but that's another sustain tool that also perform well only under pressure of many enemies.

Most of Herald strategies are much easier IMO with shield and that's mostly where I used to base my comparison for why they decided to make it a 5 cleanse tool compared Soothing Stone, but it still deserves to have Barrier under the use of each condition removed, if it's not for all conditions at 586 under the PvE co-efficient then it should be the new PvP one at 879.

Also the same could be said if you wanted to maximize any Revenant skill, which is mostly where the fun comes from, they all have some special criteria to fill in the moment of action to maximize results, Infuse Light can heal for a lot but technically whenever you got above 5.5k healing, it's technically already done it's necessary average, not to count Shiro's one because those can be evaded and blocked, rarely do the players max out the healing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Shao.7236 said:@Lonewolf Kai.3682

It goes to show energy costs are nothing to achieve good damage and you fell for it anyway, you going to argue about something completely different about someone who's been doing this for years now? This is for the sake of consistency to show the energy left, I would have pre casted Inspiring Reinforcement before leaving Mallyx into a dazing strike to maximize my leap efficiency and not get stunlocked, you still don't get it do you? Shiro players still have the same weakness at a higher cost, obviously nobody should burst after a fresh swap, that's not the point of the discussion, rather than to achieve almost the same level of utility Mallyx has extreme amount of energy to spare and that's not counting the stunbreak cost also being the lowest, the damage is almost incomparable. Increasing energy cost would keep the class in check rather than leaving it to it's easy state of use. CtA is spammable, you don't have to keep denying it, because I can't use it every 1 second doesn't mean it's not spam, if I have to counter every situational argument to justify my approach, might as well not even try to reason, there's always a way to counter everything, there's no going around it as the skill is obviously bloated and people don't want to accept it.

@"ZDragon.3046" I would totally accept the idea of being OP if it wasn't for all the sustain, stability and Weakness nerf Jalis got since it's quite easy to delete his 30 second CD heal and the Mallyx one is only good under pressure, as Barrier is already a mechanic part of SotM which I'm glad they buffed but that's another sustain tool that also perform well only under pressure of many enemies.

This happens for all professions not just core rev with the jails heal its rather common i dont think thats an excuse to exactly say it should be made stronger so it totally negates any incoming pressure for a short time. Just because "well the herald heal kinda does that..." To be honest with you if you really really feel that strongly about it and need a heal that serves that purpose why not just run the herald line and legend. There is also no reason why you could not ruin jails along side it even if you just wanted a tough ish power build.

Most of Herald strategies are much easier IMO with shield and that's mostly where I used to base my comparison for why they decided to make it a 5 cleanse tool compared Soothing Stone, but it still deserves to have Barrier under the use of each condition removed, if it's not for all conditions at 586 under the PvE co-efficient then it should be the new PvP one at 879.

Also the same could be said if you wanted to maximize any Revenant skill, which is mostly where the fun comes from, they all have some special criteria to fill in the moment of action to maximize results, Infuse Light can heal for a lot but technically whenever you got above 5.5k healing, it's technically already done it's necessary average, not to count Shiro's one because those can be evaded and blocked, rarely do the players max out the healing.

There are alot of assumptions being made here but the fact that shiro's heal is still an option puts you at more of an advantage if you consider soothing stone to have healed you for the average of what other professions heals heal for. The fact that you would still have a 2nd option regardless if it hits or not gives you and advantage for bonus healing.

As for maximizing skill does every skill "need" to be designed that way? Its certainly worth asking for those who just want a standard skill as a opposed to a skill that only seems good when maximized. Infuse light already has that bit as timing it wrong results in no healing or very little healing, Shiro's heal requires you to be able to hit the target, and Mallyx's heal scales based on conditions on the player, Ventari requires tablet management and is super risky. Perhaps Jails is the one heal that should be a standard fixed staple where that that concern is not present. I will admit it was one of the reason I actually like the jails heal because its stable. You can count on it to do a specific value every time without extra actions or setup.

Does soothing stone need barrier, not reallyWould it be a nice addon, sure it would

Like i said i understand what you are trying to say but it does not always mean a hard buff to the skill is justified. I would love to be able to consume all the stacks on vamp signet active on my marked target but im not gonna ask for a buff that lets me do that because i could maximize healing which would be broken in some aspect im sure.... (much like asking for a heal that clears all condi and slaps a ton of barrier over top) but sometimes asking for certain things are just not justifiable in the moment. In this moment i dont think the buff is necessary personally. IF anet ups damage a bit to push us farther out of the bunker meta then maybe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Shao.7236 said:@Lonewolf Kai.3682

It goes to show energy costs are nothing to achieve good damage and you fell for it anyway, you going to argue about something completely different about someone who's been doing this for years now? This is for the sake of consistency to show the energy left, I would have pre casted Inspiring Reinforcement before leaving Mallyx into a dazing strike to maximize my leap efficiency and not get stunlocked, you still don't get it do you? Shiro players still have the same weakness at a higher cost, obviously nobody should burst after a fresh swap, that's not the point of the discussion, rather than to achieve almost the same level of utility Mallyx has extreme amount of energy to spare and that's not counting the stunbreak cost also being the lowest, the damage is almost incomparable. Increasing energy cost would keep the class in check rather than leaving it to it's easy state of use. CtA is spammable, you don't have to keep denying it, because I can't use it every 1 second doesn't mean it's not spam, if I have to counter every situational argument to justify my approach, might as well not even try to reason, there's always a way to counter everything, there's no going around it as the skill is obviously bloated and people don't want to accept it.

@ZDragon.3046 I would totally accept the idea of being OP if it wasn't for all the sustain, stability and Weakness nerf Jalis got since it's quite easy to delete his 30 second CD heal and the Mallyx one is only good under pressure, as Barrier is already a mechanic part of SotM which I'm glad they buffed but that's another sustain tool that also perform well only under pressure of many enemies.

Most of Herald strategies are much easier IMO with shield and that's mostly where I used to base my comparison for why they decided to make it a 5 cleanse tool compared Soothing Stone, but it still deserves to have Barrier under the use of each condition removed, if it's not for all conditions at 586 under the PvE co-efficient then it should be the new PvP one at 879.

Also the same could be said if you wanted to maximize any Revenant skill, which is mostly where the fun comes from, they all have some special criteria to fill in the moment of action to maximize results, Infuse Light can heal for a lot but technically whenever you got above 5.5k healing, it's technically already done it's necessary average, not to count Shiro's one because those can be evaded and blocked, rarely do the players max out the healing.

I “fell for it anyway”? Now I know you can’t be taken serious since you are just playing games in this discussion. You’re ignoring a lot of the facts presented to you, so therefore your cry about how CtA is overpowered can also be ignored.

Also, I’ve been playing Revenant since before it’s release in the pre, pre, pre-alpha stage and was a key component in its development from a customer stand point, so don’t try to spin a “I’ have more experience than you, nya nya” comment on me. Because I can assure you, you don’t.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

It goes to show energy costs are nothing to achieve good damage and you fell for it anyway, you going to argue about something completely different about someone who's been doing this for years now? This is for the sake of consistency to show the energy left, I would have pre casted Inspiring Reinforcement before leaving Mallyx into a dazing strike to maximize my leap efficiency and not get stunlocked, you still don't get it do you? Shiro players still have the same weakness at a higher cost, obviously nobody should burst after a fresh swap, that's not the point of the discussion, rather than to achieve almost the same level of utility Mallyx has extreme amount of energy to spare and that's not counting the stunbreak cost also being the lowest, the damage is almost incomparable. Increasing energy cost would keep the class in check rather than leaving it to it's easy state of use. CtA is spammable, you don't have to keep denying it, because I can't use it every 1 second doesn't mean it's not spam, if I have to counter every situational argument to justify my approach, might as well not even try to reason, there's always a way to counter everything, there's no going around it as the skill is obviously bloated and people don't want to accept it.

@"ZDragon.3046" I would totally accept the idea of being OP if it wasn't for all the sustain, stability and Weakness nerf Jalis got since it's quite easy to delete his 30 second CD heal and the Mallyx one is only good under pressure, as Barrier is already a mechanic part of SotM which I'm glad they buffed but that's another sustain tool that also perform well only under pressure of many enemies.

Most of Herald strategies are much easier IMO with shield and that's mostly where I used to base my comparison for why they decided to make it a 5 cleanse tool compared Soothing Stone, but it still deserves to have Barrier under the use of each condition removed, if it's not for all conditions at 586 under the PvE co-efficient then it should be the new PvP one at 879.

Also the same could be said if you wanted to maximize any Revenant skill, which is mostly where the fun comes from, they all have some special criteria to fill in the moment of action to maximize results, Infuse Light can heal for a lot but technically whenever you got above 5.5k healing, it's technically already done it's necessary average, not to count Shiro's one because those can be evaded and blocked, rarely do the players max out the healing.

I “fell for it anyway”? Now I know you can’t be taken serious since you are just playing games in this discussion. You’re ignoring a lot of the facts presented to you, so therefore your cry about how CtA is overpowered can also be ignored.

Also, I’ve been playing Revenant since before it’s release in the pre, pre, pre-alpha stage and was a key component in its development from a customer stand point, so don’t try to spin a “I’ have more experience than you, nya nya” comment on me. Because I can assure you, you don’t.

Crying about my skills being overpowered, that's a new one. Let's just kill the whole legend already. Edit: "You’re ignoring a lot of the facts presented to you" so are you, in fact you're not considering anything but the skill in a vacuum, irrelevant statements. The assumption that you would think I'd be jumping in without safety measures says so to me.

Jalis is good. Mallyx is just ok.Mallyx is the 3rd best heal as it can heal up to 10k easily in condi spam. It sits above Jalis for always having it's own Resistance ICD. Something that nobody seems to be aware of either.

@Mogwai.4015 said:With sustain getting nerfed across the board, I feel like both Mallyx's and Jalis' heals are at a really good spot. I personally don't think either need any adjustments. It feels a bit more relevant now to have two heals.

With Stability no longer reducing damage, forcing more upkeep in the process of making the heal be worth anything is rough. 75% of the time whenever it's used it's already gone with one simple autoattack from a zerk build in the current meta, it's not like barrier is permanent nor has Jalis the ability to make it worthwhile as much currently, it would surely make the cleanse be worth investing into more rather than losing more HP for trying to maximize it's efficiency, Mallyx in combo is the only one that can currently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Shao.7236 said:

It goes to show energy costs are nothing to achieve good damage and you fell for it anyway, you going to argue about something completely different about someone who's been doing this for years now? This is for the sake of consistency to show the energy left, I would have pre casted Inspiring Reinforcement before leaving Mallyx into a dazing strike to maximize my leap efficiency and not get stunlocked, you still don't get it do you? Shiro players still have the same weakness at a higher cost, obviously nobody should burst after a fresh swap, that's not the point of the discussion, rather than to achieve almost the same level of utility Mallyx has extreme amount of energy to spare and that's not counting the stunbreak cost also being the lowest, the damage is almost incomparable. Increasing energy cost would keep the class in check rather than leaving it to it's easy state of use. CtA is spammable, you don't have to keep denying it, because I can't use it every 1 second doesn't mean it's not spam, if I have to counter every situational argument to justify my approach, might as well not even try to reason, there's always a way to counter everything, there's no going around it as the skill is obviously bloated and people don't want to accept it.

@"ZDragon.3046" I would totally accept the idea of being OP if it wasn't for all the sustain, stability and Weakness nerf Jalis got since it's quite easy to delete his 30 second CD heal and the Mallyx one is only good under pressure, as Barrier is already a mechanic part of SotM which I'm glad they buffed but that's another sustain tool that also perform well only under pressure of many enemies.

Most of Herald strategies are much easier IMO with shield and that's mostly where I used to base my comparison for why they decided to make it a 5 cleanse tool compared Soothing Stone, but it still deserves to have Barrier under the use of each condition removed, if it's not for all conditions at 586 under the PvE co-efficient then it should be the new PvP one at 879.

Also the same could be said if you wanted to maximize any Revenant skill, which is mostly where the fun comes from, they all have some special criteria to fill in the moment of action to maximize results, Infuse Light can heal for a lot but technically whenever you got above 5.5k healing, it's technically already done it's necessary average, not to count Shiro's one because those can be evaded and blocked, rarely do the players max out the healing.

I “fell for it anyway”? Now I know you can’t be taken serious since you are just playing games in this discussion. You’re ignoring a lot of the facts presented to you, so therefore your cry about how CtA is overpowered can also be ignored.

Also, I’ve been playing Revenant since before it’s release in the pre, pre, pre-alpha stage and was a key component in its development from a customer stand point, so don’t try to spin a “I’ have more experience than you, nya nya” comment on me. Because I can assure you, you don’t.

Crying about my skills being overpowered, that's a new one. Let's just kill the whole legend already. Edit: "You’re ignoring a lot of the facts presented to you" so are you, in fact you're not considering anything but the skill in a vacuum, irrelevant statements. The assumption that you would think I'd be jumping in without safety measures says so to me.

Jalis is good. Mallyx is just ok.Mallyx is the 3rd best heal as it can heal up to 10k easily in condi spam. It sits above Jalis for always having it's own Resistance ICD. Something that nobody seems to be aware of either.

@Mogwai.4015 said:With sustain getting nerfed across the board, I feel like both Mallyx's and Jalis' heals are at a really good spot. I personally don't think either need any adjustments. It feels a bit more relevant now to have two heals.

With Stability no longer reducing damage, forcing more upkeep in the process of making the heal be worth anything is rough. 75% of the time whenever it's used it's already gone with one simple autoattack from a zerk build in the current meta, it's not like barrier is permanent nor has Jalis the ability to make it worthwhile as much currently, it would surely make the cleanse be worth investing into more rather than losing more HP for trying to maximize it's efficiency, Mallyx in combo is the only one that can currently.

Incorrect, I described to you several times what would happen if to you if “spam” your skills.

Mallyx’s heal is situational. In this current meta, it looks good. However, Jalis’s heal is guaranteed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

It goes to show energy costs are nothing to achieve good damage and you fell for it anyway, you going to argue about something completely different about someone who's been doing this for years now? This is for the sake of consistency to show the energy left, I would have pre casted Inspiring Reinforcement before leaving Mallyx into a dazing strike to maximize my leap efficiency and not get stunlocked, you still don't get it do you? Shiro players still have the same weakness at a higher cost, obviously nobody should burst after a fresh swap, that's not the point of the discussion, rather than to achieve almost the same level of utility Mallyx has extreme amount of energy to spare and that's not counting the stunbreak cost also being the lowest, the damage is almost incomparable. Increasing energy cost would keep the class in check rather than leaving it to it's easy state of use. CtA is spammable, you don't have to keep denying it, because I can't use it every 1 second doesn't mean it's not spam, if I have to counter every situational argument to justify my approach, might as well not even try to reason, there's always a way to counter everything, there's no going around it as the skill is obviously bloated and people don't want to accept it.

@"ZDragon.3046" I would totally accept the idea of being OP if it wasn't for all the sustain, stability and Weakness nerf Jalis got since it's quite easy to delete his 30 second CD heal and the Mallyx one is only good under pressure, as Barrier is already a mechanic part of SotM which I'm glad they buffed but that's another sustain tool that also perform well only under pressure of many enemies.

Most of Herald strategies are much easier IMO with shield and that's mostly where I used to base my comparison for why they decided to make it a 5 cleanse tool compared Soothing Stone, but it still deserves to have Barrier under the use of each condition removed, if it's not for all conditions at 586 under the PvE co-efficient then it should be the new PvP one at 879.

Also the same could be said if you wanted to maximize any Revenant skill, which is mostly where the fun comes from, they all have some special criteria to fill in the moment of action to maximize results, Infuse Light can heal for a lot but technically whenever you got above 5.5k healing, it's technically already done it's necessary average, not to count Shiro's one because those can be evaded and blocked, rarely do the players max out the healing.

I “fell for it anyway”? Now I know you can’t be taken serious since you are just playing games in this discussion. You’re ignoring a lot of the facts presented to you, so therefore your cry about how CtA is overpowered can also be ignored.

Also, I’ve been playing Revenant since before it’s release in the pre, pre, pre-alpha stage and was a key component in its development from a customer stand point, so don’t try to spin a “I’ have more experience than you, nya nya” comment on me. Because I can assure you, you don’t.

Crying about my skills being overpowered, that's a new one. Let's just kill the whole legend already. Edit: "You’re ignoring a lot of the facts presented to you" so are you, in fact you're not considering anything but the skill in a vacuum, irrelevant statements. The assumption that you would think I'd be jumping in without safety measures says so to me.

Jalis is good. Mallyx is just ok.Mallyx is the 3rd best heal as it can heal up to 10k easily in condi spam. It sits above Jalis for always having it's own Resistance ICD. Something that nobody seems to be aware of either.

@Mogwai.4015 said:With sustain getting nerfed across the board, I feel like both Mallyx's and Jalis' heals are at a really good spot. I personally don't think either need any adjustments. It feels a bit more relevant now to have two heals.

With Stability no longer reducing damage, forcing more upkeep in the process of making the heal be worth anything is rough. 75% of the time whenever it's used it's already gone with one simple autoattack from a zerk build in the current meta, it's not like barrier is permanent nor has Jalis the ability to make it worthwhile as much currently, it would surely make the cleanse be worth investing into more rather than losing more HP for trying to maximize it's efficiency, Mallyx in combo is the only one that can currently.

Incorrect, I described to you several times what would happen if to you if “spam” your skills.

Mallyx’s heal is situational. In this current meta, it looks good. However, Jalis’s heal is guaranteed.

Just fought a FB/Condi Herald duo, guess what he was doing? Always trying to setup with CtA obviously, they lost because of stability even with two transfers to work with. It's clear that the problem is the lack of risk involved with CtA, the skill doesn't have enough value and it's making everyone think that Herald Condi is OP, these people aren't bad either but Herald Condi is overrated and in need of proper tuning so that this madness stops.

Also Mallyx is more or less situational with 2 conditions is enough to even with Jalis, it's already superior in other regards as it allows great synergy for transfers. If it wasn't for Spirit Boon, playing with Jalis would be much much much harder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...