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Burning is abusive


anjo.6143

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@"choovanski.5462" said:imagine not playing warrior and neutering burnguard with just weapon swap

tumblr_n72at1E8TL1smcbm7o1_250.gif

Lmao yeah champ u get 36k multiple burns bursts being contantly applied while weapon swapping to remove 1 condi every 5 sec and see how that works out for u. Perfect talk is cheap example.Burns are definitely grossly overperforming right now.

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Burning itself is fine. all problems stem from the conversion from duration to intensity stacking. In doing that, ANet was either lazy or short-sighted. Instead of increasing durations to compensate for the lower per-stack damage, they mostly just increased stacks to match the original level of damage. The result is that when you apply burns from a single source, it's like having multiple of the original burning stacks ticking simultaneously.

The fix is to simply reduce number of stacks and increase duration. With few exceptions, this would mean one skill provides one stack.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"choovanski.5462" said:imagine not playing warrior and neutering burnguard with just weapon swap

tumblr_n72at1E8TL1smcbm7o1_250.gif

Lmao yeah champ u get 36k multiple burns bursts being contantly applied while weapon swapping to remove 1 condi every 5 sec and see how that works out for u. Perfect talk is cheap example.Burns are definitely grossly overperforming right now.

Yeah pull another number like 36k ticks out if you want anyone to ever take ya seriously.

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@Gwaihir.1745 said:

@"choovanski.5462" said:imagine not playing warrior and neutering burnguard with just weapon swap

tumblr_n72at1E8TL1smcbm7o1_250.gif

Lmao yeah champ u get 36k multiple burns bursts being contantly applied while weapon swapping to remove 1 condi every 5 sec and see how that works out for u. Perfect talk is cheap example.Burns are definitely grossly overperforming right now.

Yeah pull another number like 36k ticks out if you want anyone to ever take ya seriously.

Except there a recent post showing just that, u kno unless its photoshopped and all so....

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@Exedore.6320 said:Burning itself is fine. all problems stem from the conversion from duration to intensity stacking. In doing that, ANet was either lazy or short-sighted. Instead of increasing durations to compensate for the lower per-stack damage, they mostly just increased stacks to match the original level of damage. The result is that when you apply burns from a single source, it's like having multiple of the original burning stacks ticking simultaneously.

The fix is to simply reduce number of stacks and increase duration. With few exceptions, this would mean one skill provides one stack.

Which doesn't work because if you need to buff a condy attack increasing duration increases probability of removal to the point where it does nothing.

Its confirmation bias at play here (overturned classes aside). If it takes say 5 attacks to get that burn up, compare against equivelant dmg from 5 power attacks and you will see that power is more dangerous.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

Which doesn't work because if you need to buff a condy attack increasing duration increases probability of removal to the point where it does nothing.

Its confirmation bias at play here (overturned classes aside). If it takes say 5 attacks to get that burn up, compare against equivelant dmg from 5 power attacks and you will see that power is more dangerous.

It absolutely works. Just like a power build can't dump all their attacks into an evade, a condi build shouldn't expect to unload all their cooldowns and not have it be cleansed. The counter play to cleanse would be to only use a few abilities, wait for the cleanse, then dump more. This is nearly predicated on toning down power creep in cleanse at the same time.

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Burning works better then power damage now and classes that have multiple different conditions should not get burns to bury them under 6 or 7 other conditions also why is this still a thing seeing 6 different conditions at the same time. Make them exclude each other like cc does, cc conditions are way too strong in this game and when you get all of them at the same time it is worse than hard cc.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"choovanski.5462" said:imagine not playing warrior and neutering burnguard with just weapon swap

tumblr_n72at1E8TL1smcbm7o1_250.gif

Lmao yeah champ u get 36k multiple burns bursts being contantly applied while weapon swapping to remove 1 condi every 5 sec and see how that works out for u. Perfect talk is cheap example.Burns are definitely grossly overperforming right now.

Yeah pull another number like 36k ticks out if you want anyone to ever take ya seriously.

Except there a recent post showing just that, u kno unless its photoshopped and all so....

Wasn't that a minionmancer who went DS after a fire weaver stacked a ton of burning on the necro and minions. Going DS drew the conditions to the necro which resulted in the silly high burn stacks and tick?

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Burning is fine. Only 2 classes inflict more than a few stacks of burning: ele and guard.

The idea that the problem came from the switch from duration to intensity is absurd. Burning before the switch was a joke on so many levels. It was non-functional as a condition and non-functional in any pvp setting.

Guard applies burn, vuln, immob, and cripple. Thats about it. It applies very few of those in pulsing except burning. Almost all the burning stacks from guard come from F1, meaning that hes still hitting you with the same abilities he would if he was power. FB has a few more condi abilities, but pays for them in cast time. Disregarding FBs (still) absurd level of boon support, burn fb is really pretty tame in terms of burst ability.

Ele inflicts a bit more bleeding and cripple, but relies a lot more on fields to stack burning. Ele also only inflicts burning in fire, where it doesn't get access to most of its other condis. Beyond a few troll FA one shot builds, ele has always gravitated towards condi builds. Any nerf to burn really hurts viable ele builds. And lets be honest here, ele hasn't been a dominant force since core celestial years ago.

Condi clear is a part of literally every remotely competitive build. Its also very easy to change into more condi cleanse in 2v2. Condi is currently slightly stronger than power builds after the nerf, but i really don't see how thats a problem. Power has been the go-to for almost every class with only small exceptions. The change to invuln to stop condi ticks made the strongest abilities in the game now counter even more and lead to most condi builds getting pushed out of the game. Now that condi is the go-to everyone is up in arms? Is a switch in meta really that hard to handle? Its not like condi skills are hitscans with no animations, you still have to get hit by everything that inflicts burning.

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Yes burning is quite effective against players with a skillbar full of pve utilities standing still and pressing 1. I've seen that a few times. That's the same type of player that dies to power mirage these days.

I haven't seen more than a stack of 3 burns in my condi bar for months. Is this even still possible when you are not afk?

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Burning overall but also on Guardians is just another thing that went under the radar, it was pretty whack but avoidable in the past because of the sustain, with all the nerfs that we got it's been power creeping a little too much as people didn't really care for expertise either.

None of it was changed, but here we had people complaining about 15 Torment when 7 burns which is easily handed out can do more overtime and faster on sage amulet. Damage is basically the same as before.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:Burning itself is fine. all problems stem from the conversion from duration to intensity stacking. In doing that, ANet was either lazy or short-sighted. Instead of increasing durations to compensate for the lower per-stack damage, they mostly just increased stacks to match the original level of damage. The result is that when you apply burns from a single source, it's like having multiple of the original burning stacks ticking simultaneously.

The fix is to simply reduce number of stacks and increase duration. With few exceptions, this would mean one skill provides one stack.

Which doesn't work because if you need to buff a condy attack increasing duration increases probability of removal to the point where it does nothing.

Its confirmation bias at play here (overturned classes aside). If it takes say 5 attacks to get that burn up, compare against equivelant dmg from 5 power attacks and you will see that power is more dangerous.

Except you don't have to hit someone constantly at CQC range, you can sit down and let the AoE spam do the work and with Expertise amulets gone, everyone has Power now and if you look it up yourself, burning/power without crits outperforms 80% of all Berserker builds with less risk. Guardians need to be looked into.

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