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Soon every legend skill will cost 50 energy (in PvP) if this continues


Xca.9721

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@Xca.9721 said:Anet keeps increasing the energy costs for utility skills rather than nerfing the functionality of them. This is such a lazy handling of balancing things.

Make your pick, useless skill that costs nothing or useful skill that cost something. I lean towards useful skill that cost something, afaik Mallyx is still good with proper plays so it was the right call instead of making it's skills useless.

Riposting Shadows is no exception, Shiro is still well beyond playable and just as strong with proper decision making.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@"Xca.9721" said:Anet keeps increasing the energy costs for utility skills rather than nerfing the functionality of them. This is such a lazy handling of balancing things.

Make your pick, useless skill that costs nothing or useful skill that cost something. I lean towards useful skill that cost something, afaik Mallyx is still good with proper plays so it was the right call instead of making it's skills useless.

Riposting Shadows is no exception, Shiro is still well beyond playable and just as strong with proper decision making.

More like "useful skill that costs too much". It´s no fun to play a class that can´t even use half of their utility because the energy is drained by too expensive skills.

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@Xca.9721 said:

@Xca.9721 said:Anet keeps increasing the energy costs for utility skills rather than nerfing the functionality of them. This is such a lazy handling of balancing things.

Make your pick, useless skill that costs nothing or useful skill that cost something. I lean towards useful skill that cost something, afaik Mallyx is still good with proper plays so it was the right call instead of making it's skills useless.

Riposting Shadows is no exception, Shiro is still well beyond playable and just as strong with proper decision making.

More like "useful skill that costs too much". It´s no fun to play a class that can´t even use half of their utility because the energy is drained by too expensive skills.

Both Shiro and Mallyx were bloated and too easy to use, there's not much to say otherwise. Jalis was always expensive and always worked fine, so it's no excuse to ignore the rest when everyone's getting the same threatment.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@Xca.9721 said:

@Xca.9721 said:Anet keeps increasing the energy costs for utility skills rather than nerfing the functionality of them. This is such a lazy handling of balancing things.

Make your pick, useless skill that costs nothing or useful skill that cost something. I lean towards useful skill that cost something, afaik Mallyx is still good with proper plays so it was the right call instead of making it's skills useless.

Riposting Shadows is no exception, Shiro is still well beyond playable and just as strong with proper decision making.

More like "useful skill that costs too much". It´s no fun to play a class that can´t even use half of their utility because the energy is drained by too expensive skills.

Both Shiro and Mallyx were bloated and too easy to use, there's not much to say otherwise. Jalis was always expensive and always worked fine, so it's no excuse to ignore the rest when everyone's getting the same threatment.

Jalis is objectively significantly cheaper than shiro and now malyx. But more on topic, I don't like it, it is like they are trying to make legend skills less defining of a spec's playstyle because you can only ever afford 1 or 2 legend skills per swap and it really is just putting way more focus on weapon skills which all have much higher CDs now anyways so its alot of either stalling while in combat to build up your energy or auto attacking because you literally can't do all that much else.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@Xca.9721 said:

@Xca.9721 said:Anet keeps increasing the energy costs for utility skills rather than nerfing the functionality of them. This is such a lazy handling of balancing things.

Make your pick, useless skill that costs nothing or useful skill that cost something. I lean towards useful skill that cost something, afaik Mallyx is still good with proper plays so it was the right call instead of making it's skills useless.

Riposting Shadows is no exception, Shiro is still well beyond playable and just as strong with proper decision making.

More like "useful skill that costs too much". It´s no fun to play a class that can´t even use half of their utility because the energy is drained by too expensive skills.

Both Shiro and Mallyx were bloated and too easy to use, there's not much to say otherwise. Jalis was always expensive and always worked fine, so it's no excuse to ignore the rest when everyone's getting the same threatment.

That´s my point, when they are too bloated you should nerf the functionality or increase the CD, not the energy which worsens fluid gameplay

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@Xca.9721 said:

@Xca.9721 said:

@Xca.9721 said:Anet keeps increasing the energy costs for utility skills rather than nerfing the functionality of them. This is such a lazy handling of balancing things.

Make your pick, useless skill that costs nothing or useful skill that cost something. I lean towards useful skill that cost something, afaik Mallyx is still good with proper plays so it was the right call instead of making it's skills useless.

Riposting Shadows is no exception, Shiro is still well beyond playable and just as strong with proper decision making.

More like "useful skill that costs too much". It´s no fun to play a class that can´t even use half of their utility because the energy is drained by too expensive skills.

Both Shiro and Mallyx were bloated and too easy to use, there's not much to say otherwise. Jalis was always expensive and always worked fine, so it's no excuse to ignore the rest when everyone's getting the same threatment.

That´s my point, when they are too bloated you should nerf the functionality or increase the CD, not the energy which worsens fluid gameplay

But it doesn't if you know what you are doing, you're not supposed to be able to do more than anyone else that's where it's bloated and also where Revenant was broken, we don't have to gut skills everywhere to push dopamine in, that breaks situational benefits, the skills weren't OP in their function either, only their constant use. Like changing CtA radius doesn't change the event that it can be used too often, same with PA or BE. Adding a cooldown to BE would kill it's ability to reward patient players or quickly consume energy for Charged Mists and so on, 30 already felt like a lot compared 25 but since I can make it work myself I guess Anet made the better call.

Also comparing energy Legends like they are all the same playstyle doesn't make for a valid buff or nerf, saying that Jalis is not expensive is completely ignoring the fact that it relies extremely on Upkeep to survive unlike Mallyx or Shiro which use it to exceed their damage throughput, skills are also not as expensive if you use them in combination with other legends which is how the class is designed. Renegade is the most expensive legend if we had to do numbers like most people tend to compare.

FYI they could make for a 35 Forced Engagement but that would make proper clutch interrupts literally impossible hence why it's on a cooldown instead, an expensive one at that as the worst for Revenant outside of healing skills when it can setup any type of burst while reducing damage by a lot counting the skill effect, weakness and slow. CtA comparably has a different purpose but can be used for such in it's own way, same for Jade Winds. What does the cost matter if you can legend swap after or have more energy with Charged Mists or Ancient Echo?

It's also another case of if it was just energy, people could just spam it, weapons have cooldowns for that and so some skills do for balance, just have to accept it. This class isn't Thief, it's a whole entire different beast of synergy flipping back and forth. Adjustments were needed because the whole game is changing, that doesn't mean costs will keep increasing when they were too low to begin with.

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@Xca.9721 said:Anet keeps increasing the energy costs for utility skills rather than nerfing the functionality of them. This is such a lazy handling of balancing things.

Agreed. However, this is going to creep into WvW as well eventually. The class has become a husk of what it was intended to be. It’s going to be to the point that you use one skill only and then wait. Rinse and repeat. Sounds like loads of fun....

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It's not useful skill which cost too much.It's essential skill being too overloaded that costs too much to the point it starts to hurt actual gameplay.

Seems fine on paper, sure, but when put in actual practice, it feels like big doo doo.

Welcome to Rev : Stunbreaking puts all yur skills on cooldown 2. Electric boogaloo.

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Revenant is nothing of what it once was. Dead broken class. Just get rid of the energy system and apply normal cds cause honestly all benefits of said system are gone. To this day i remember how weapon skills were meant to use some energy as offset to low cd's. Where are the low cd's rn? I know they still drain energy but i also see high af cd's.

What happened to the managing energy part with utilities allowing you to spam as much you want as long you have enough energy like thief ini? Cd here, cd there.. or some ridiculous energy cuz once you use ability you are a sitting duck.

Ngl im glad i left this game long ago apart from playing LS. No wonder why their profits are experiencing major drops either with the way the handle balance

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@Shao.7236 said:

@Xca.9721 said:

@Xca.9721 said:Anet keeps increasing the energy costs for utility skills rather than nerfing the functionality of them. This is such a lazy handling of balancing things.

Make your pick, useless skill that costs nothing or useful skill that cost something. I lean towards useful skill that cost something, afaik Mallyx is still good with proper plays so it was the right call instead of making it's skills useless.

Riposting Shadows is no exception, Shiro is still well beyond playable and just as strong with proper decision making.

More like "useful skill that costs too much". It´s no fun to play a class that can´t even use half of their utility because the energy is drained by too expensive skills.

Both Shiro and Mallyx were bloated and too easy to use, there's not much to say otherwise. Jalis was always expensive and always worked fine, so it's no excuse to ignore the rest when everyone's getting the same threatment.

Even if it is true (and not necessarily is), the solution is not to increase energy, but reduce the bloat. And in the past, both Pain Absorption and CtA cost was reduced specifically cuz the high cost rendered them obsolete.

This is just a bandied the devs threw cuz they are too lazy to come-up with functional solutions to problems, they unnecessarily created, with previous broken patch.

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@Shao.7236 said:It's also another case of if it was just energy, people could just spam it, weapons have cooldowns for that and so some skills do for balance, just have to accept it. This class isn't Thief, it's a whole entire different beast of synergy flipping back and forth. Adjustments were needed because the whole game is changing, that doesn't mean costs will keep increasing when they were too low to begin with.

Actually, you’re slightly wrong here in regards to your Thief comment. The original concept and released Revenant was indeed for the class to be somewhere between Elementalist Attunements (Legend swap) and Thief Initative (energy system) as a throw back to the energy system used in G1.

What we have today doesn’t really reflect that as well anymore and the class is now way to restricted with double penalties of CDs and higher energy costs. A reduction of abilities is a much better solution and more fitting to the intended Revenant conception and release.

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They should rise the cost to 55 to everything seriously. I kill with mace autoattacks; when I swap to Mallyx I tend to not use skills, saving energy to breakstun or proc resistance with Pain Absortion if is needed, or using Call to Anguish to interrupt rezzes, or after stacking energy for a while activating the Embrace the Darkness upkeep, which seems to be the passive agressive gameplay ANet expects from us.

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@otto.5684 said:

@Xca.9721 said:

@Xca.9721 said:Anet keeps increasing the energy costs for utility skills rather than nerfing the functionality of them. This is such a lazy handling of balancing things.

Make your pick, useless skill that costs nothing or useful skill that cost something. I lean towards useful skill that cost something, afaik Mallyx is still good with proper plays so it was the right call instead of making it's skills useless.

Riposting Shadows is no exception, Shiro is still well beyond playable and just as strong with proper decision making.

More like "useful skill that costs too much". It´s no fun to play a class that can´t even use half of their utility because the energy is drained by too expensive skills.

Both Shiro and Mallyx were bloated and too easy to use, there's not much to say otherwise. Jalis was always expensive and always worked fine, so it's no excuse to ignore the rest when everyone's getting the same threatment.

Even if it is true (and not necessarily is), the solution is not to increase energy, but reduce the bloat. And in the past, both Pain Absorption and CtA cost was reduced specifically cuz the high cost rendered them obsolete.

This is just a bandied the devs threw cuz they are too lazy to come-up with functional solutions to problems, they unnecessarily created, with previous broken patch.

Y'all always have the same broken record of a comment, whether it's lazy or not. There's no point in coming up with a better skill when the skill itself is fine and the constant usage is the problem.

I don't know what you're trying to achieve by saying pressing the same skill over and over at a low cost and effect is better, it's not. It's a ridiculous idea.

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@Shao.7236 said:It's also another case of if it was just energy, people could just spam it, weapons have cooldowns for that and so some skills do for balance, just have to accept it. This class isn't Thief, it's a whole entire different beast of synergy flipping back and forth. Adjustments were needed because the whole game is changing, that doesn't mean costs will keep increasing when they were too low to begin with.

Actually, you’re slightly wrong here in regards to your Thief comment. The original concept and released Revenant was indeed for the class to be somewhere between Elementalist Attunements (Legend swap) and Thief Initative (energy system) as a throw back to the energy system used in G1.

What we have today doesn’t really reflect that as well anymore and the class is now way to restricted with double penalties of CDs and higher energy costs. A reduction of abilities is a much better solution and more fitting to the intended Revenant conception and release.

What double penalties? Are you saying every Elementalist skills are useful or that a Thief can burst 10 times in a row??

God it would be fun to put perma quarter sec pulse stab and spam weak sauce unrelenting assault, totally healthy gameplay right there, or would you say no lets rework everything to something else even thought the system is fine now? Yeah, absolutely try to balance relevant skills on perma usage based an on energy pool only, that's when you're gonna get higher energy costs. As you were the one saying there is better things to invest than functionality fixes, stop asking the devs to mold the existing ideas to yours. Accept what the Revenant really is, not what you envisioned, you're not gonna get an elementalist thief, what you have is Revenant and this is the concept you should engrave on your mind to suggest ideas about, not scrap and redesign because it doesn't work for you.

The game has shifted and the classes are adjusted, this is what you're gonna get because this is what works whether you like it or not. Because it doesn't work in your hands doesn't mean it can't in the others.

@Buran.3796After the changes I still have enough energy to do whatever I was doing post bug fix, so I can't agree with that.

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@Shao.7236 said:

Y'all always have the same broken record of a comment, whether it's lazy or not. There's no point in coming up with a better skill when the skill itself is fine and the constant usage is the problem.

I'm thinking Rev could very well just work with balanced CDs and have Energy removed altogether.Right now all it does is limit an already crippled class.

It's like while everyone functions normally, Rev is bleeding with every step they take.

Just remove Energy, balance the CDs, and we will have a somewhat smoother gameplay.

The Strength of Rev would then be : two powerful Utility sets.The Weakness of Rev would then be : Unable to customize the utilities, so what yu see is what yu get, leading to more predictive gameplay, but then again, every build has some sort of predictive gameplay anyway.

I mean, some other classes have cooldown based utilities which are also extremely overloaded.I think Rev could work well with decent cooldowns.

Unless people want extremely weak utilities which they can spam every second, but then people are gonna cry nerf again and Anet in their infinite wisdom will slap more Energy cost and HERE WE GO AGAIN.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@Xca.9721 said:

@Xca.9721 said:Anet keeps increasing the energy costs for utility skills rather than nerfing the functionality of them. This is such a lazy handling of balancing things.

Make your pick, useless skill that costs nothing or useful skill that cost something. I lean towards useful skill that cost something, afaik Mallyx is still good with proper plays so it was the right call instead of making it's skills useless.

Riposting Shadows is no exception, Shiro is still well beyond playable and just as strong with proper decision making.

More like "useful skill that costs too much". It´s no fun to play a class that can´t even use half of their utility because the energy is drained by too expensive skills.

Both Shiro and Mallyx were bloated and too easy to use, there's not much to say otherwise. Jalis was always expensive and always worked fine, so it's no excuse to ignore the rest when everyone's getting the same threatment.

Even if it is true (and not necessarily is), the solution is not to increase energy, but reduce the bloat. And in the past, both Pain Absorption and CtA cost was reduced specifically cuz the high cost rendered them obsolete.

This is just a bandied the devs threw cuz they are too lazy to come-up with functional solutions to problems, they unnecessarily created, with previous broken patch.

Y'all always have the same broken record of a comment, whether it's lazy or not. There's no point in coming up with a better skill when the skill itself is fine and the constant usage is the problem.

I don't know what you're trying to achieve by saying pressing the same skill over and over at a low cost and effect is better, it's not. It's a ridiculous idea.

@Shao.7236 said:It's also another case of if it was just energy, people could just spam it, weapons have cooldowns for that and so some skills do for balance, just have to accept it. This class isn't Thief, it's a whole entire different beast of synergy flipping back and forth. Adjustments were needed because the whole game is changing, that doesn't mean costs will keep increasing when they were too low to begin with.

Actually, you’re slightly wrong here in regards to your Thief comment. The original concept and released Revenant was indeed for the class to be somewhere between Elementalist Attunements (Legend swap) and Thief Initative (energy system) as a throw back to the energy system used in G1.

What we have today doesn’t really reflect that as well anymore and the class is now way to restricted with double penalties of CDs and higher energy costs. A reduction of abilities is a much better solution and more fitting to the intended Revenant conception and release.

What double penalties? Are you saying every Elementalist skills are useful or that a Thief can burst 10 times in a row??

God it would be fun to put perma quarter sec pulse stab and spam weak sauce unrelenting assault, totally healthy gameplay right there, or would you say no lets rework everything to something else even thought the system is fine now? Yeah, absolutely try to balance relevant skills on perma usage based an on energy pool only, that's when you're gonna get higher energy costs. As you were the one saying there is better things to invest than functionality fixes, stop asking the devs to mold the existing ideas to yours. Accept what the Revenant really is, not what you envisioned, you're not gonna get an elementalist thief, what you have is Revenant and this is the concept you should engrave on your mind to suggest ideas about, not scrap and redesign because it doesn't work for you.

The game has shifted and the classes are adjusted, this is what you're gonna get because this is what works whether you like it or not. Because it doesn't work in your hands doesn't mean it can't in the others.

@Buran.3796After the changes I still have enough energy to do whatever I was doing post bug fix, so I can't agree with that.

....that’s not at all what I was saying and you’re taking things to the extremes here with some your sarcastic remarks.

Revenant is not my idea. It was Anet’s and in particular Roy’s, and what he envisioned. It is not what I envisioned. I’m simply telling you what the class was intended to be from his design. If it gets changed too much, like the direction it’s is currently going, the class is going to lose its identity. That’s all I’m saying. No need for the targeted sarcasm. If you want to take that road, have at it. The road is yours.

You ask me to stop asking for changes to mold my ideas into the class, yet you opened a thread to ask for just the same thing for your ideas. If you think the class is fine, then don’t open such threads.

Also, where did I ever say the class doesn’t work for me now or ever? I can answer that. I didn’t. There is no need to make things personal, so please stop.

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@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@Xca.9721 said:

@Xca.9721 said:Anet keeps increasing the energy costs for utility skills rather than nerfing the functionality of them. This is such a lazy handling of balancing things.

Make your pick, useless skill that costs nothing or useful skill that cost something. I lean towards useful skill that cost something, afaik Mallyx is still good with proper plays so it was the right call instead of making it's skills useless.

Riposting Shadows is no exception, Shiro is still well beyond playable and just as strong with proper decision making.

More like "useful skill that costs too much". It´s no fun to play a class that can´t even use half of their utility because the energy is drained by too expensive skills.

Both Shiro and Mallyx were bloated and too easy to use, there's not much to say otherwise. Jalis was always expensive and always worked fine, so it's no excuse to ignore the rest when everyone's getting the same threatment.

Even if it is true (and not necessarily is), the solution is not to increase energy, but reduce the bloat. And in the past, both Pain Absorption and CtA cost was reduced specifically cuz the high cost rendered them obsolete.

This is just a bandied the devs threw cuz they are too lazy to come-up with functional solutions to problems, they unnecessarily created, with previous broken patch.

Y'all always have the same broken record of a comment, whether it's lazy or not. There's no point in coming up with a better skill when the skill itself is fine and the constant usage is the problem.

I don't know what you're trying to achieve by saying pressing the same skill over and over at a low cost and effect is better, it's not. It's a ridiculous idea.

@Shao.7236 said:It's also another case of if it was just energy, people could just spam it, weapons have cooldowns for that and so some skills do for balance, just have to accept it. This class isn't Thief, it's a whole entire different beast of synergy flipping back and forth. Adjustments were needed because the whole game is changing, that doesn't mean costs will keep increasing when they were too low to begin with.

Actually, you’re slightly wrong here in regards to your Thief comment. The original concept and released Revenant was indeed for the class to be somewhere between Elementalist Attunements (Legend swap) and Thief Initative (energy system) as a throw back to the energy system used in G1.

What we have today doesn’t really reflect that as well anymore and the class is now way to restricted with double penalties of CDs and higher energy costs. A reduction of abilities is a much better solution and more fitting to the intended Revenant conception and release.

What double penalties? Are you saying every Elementalist skills are useful or that a Thief can burst 10 times in a row??

God it would be fun to put perma quarter sec pulse stab and spam weak sauce unrelenting assault, totally healthy gameplay right there, or would you say no lets rework everything to something else even thought the system is fine now? Yeah, absolutely try to balance relevant skills on perma usage based an on energy pool only, that's when you're gonna get higher energy costs. As you were the one saying there is better things to invest than functionality fixes, stop asking the devs to mold the existing ideas to yours. Accept what the Revenant really is, not what you envisioned, you're not gonna get an elementalist thief, what you have is Revenant and this is the concept you should engrave on your mind to suggest ideas about, not scrap and redesign because it doesn't work for you.

The game has shifted and the classes are adjusted, this is what you're gonna get because this is what works whether you like it or not. Because it doesn't work in your hands doesn't mean it can't in the others.

@"Buran.3796"After the changes I still have enough energy to do whatever I was doing post bug fix, so I can't agree with that.

....that’s not at all what I was saying and you’re taking things to the extremes here with some your sarcastic remarks.

Revenant is not my idea. It was Anet’s and in particular Roy’s, and what he envisioned. It is not what I envisioned. I’m simply telling you what the class was intended to be from his design. If it gets changed too much, like the direction it’s is currently going, the class is going to lose its identity. That’s all I’m saying. No need for the targeted sarcasm. If you want to take that road, have at it. The road is yours.

You ask me to stop asking for changes to mold my ideas into the class, yet you opened a thread to ask for just the same thing for your ideas. If you think the class is fine, then don’t open such threads.

Also, where did I ever say the class doesn’t work for me now or ever? I can answer that. I didn’t. There is no need to make things personal, so please stop.

Let's see what's the class identity about.. Low cooldowns.. Based on Energy.. The game has been getting a change of pace.. How's that killing identity exactly to have nerfs all around in the entire game? Thief been getting Initiative nerfs with utility CD increase, so has been Elementalist down right to Obsidian Flesh since they have been compared so much, even better still. Nothing plays like Revenant regardless, in fact if we're talking identity by design the class has been sacrificing some efficient of skills by bad design to keep it's identity. (Renegade)

There's been claims of bad decisions for keeping the game as similar as possible by increasing energy costs instead, for what exactly? Why do people think it's better to ruin a skill that can't be freely swapped around rather than change the pace? That should be something you should know about as the one with more experience to throw around.

Clearly there's something wrong if there's constant complains and disagreement to the changes, that's not making it personal, just acknowledging that it doesn't work for you to have the nerfs handed out, otherwise why complain or even bother to discuss about it, why not tell me the problem surrounding the idea while putting out something else that have full context of the situation, such as not looking at a clip in a vacuum saying that doesn't represent anything but bad plays when it's the most common synergy.

Sorry, maybe I expressed the sentiment of "molding" to your ideals wrong, but there was power creep and you refused to acknowledge it thinking it was all fine instead by going as far to mention people just plain suck and should punish, granted it's been taken care of now. There's not a whole lot left for Revenant to be balanced and only improved because of design flaws that are in practice required for relevance. As for the other classes, mostly Guardians conditions that were untouched, Rangers pets and multipliers that were untouched, people saying Necromancers are still having overperforming Lifeforce but I kinda disagree as only the US ICD been problematic.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@Xca.9721 said:

@Xca.9721 said:Anet keeps increasing the energy costs for utility skills rather than nerfing the functionality of them. This is such a lazy handling of balancing things.

Make your pick, useless skill that costs nothing or useful skill that cost something. I lean towards useful skill that cost something, afaik Mallyx is still good with proper plays so it was the right call instead of making it's skills useless.

Riposting Shadows is no exception, Shiro is still well beyond playable and just as strong with proper decision making.

More like "useful skill that costs too much". It´s no fun to play a class that can´t even use half of their utility because the energy is drained by too expensive skills.

Both Shiro and Mallyx were bloated and too easy to use, there's not much to say otherwise. Jalis was always expensive and always worked fine, so it's no excuse to ignore the rest when everyone's getting the same threatment.

Even if it is true (and not necessarily is), the solution is not to increase energy, but reduce the bloat. And in the past, both Pain Absorption and CtA cost was reduced specifically cuz the high cost rendered them obsolete.

This is just a bandied the devs threw cuz they are too lazy to come-up with functional solutions to problems, they unnecessarily created, with previous broken patch.

Y'all always have the same broken record of a comment, whether it's lazy or not. There's no point in coming up with a better skill when the skill itself is fine and the constant usage is the problem.

I don't know what you're trying to achieve by saying pressing the same skill over and over at a low cost and effect is better, it's not. It's a ridiculous idea.

@Shao.7236 said:It's also another case of if it was just energy, people could just spam it, weapons have cooldowns for that and so some skills do for balance, just have to accept it. This class isn't Thief, it's a whole entire different beast of synergy flipping back and forth. Adjustments were needed because the whole game is changing, that doesn't mean costs will keep increasing when they were too low to begin with.

Actually, you’re slightly wrong here in regards to your Thief comment. The original concept and released Revenant was indeed for the class to be somewhere between Elementalist Attunements (Legend swap) and Thief Initative (energy system) as a throw back to the energy system used in G1.

What we have today doesn’t really reflect that as well anymore and the class is now way to restricted with double penalties of CDs and higher energy costs. A reduction of abilities is a much better solution and more fitting to the intended Revenant conception and release.

What double penalties? Are you saying every Elementalist skills are useful or that a Thief can burst 10 times in a row??

God it would be fun to put perma quarter sec pulse stab and spam weak sauce unrelenting assault, totally healthy gameplay right there, or would you say no lets rework everything to something else even thought the system is fine now? Yeah, absolutely try to balance relevant skills on perma usage based an on energy pool only, that's when you're gonna get higher energy costs. As you were the one saying there is better things to invest than functionality fixes, stop asking the devs to mold the existing ideas to yours. Accept what the Revenant really is, not what you envisioned, you're not gonna get an elementalist thief, what you have is Revenant and this is the concept you should engrave on your mind to suggest ideas about, not scrap and redesign because it doesn't work for you.

The game has shifted and the classes are adjusted, this is what you're gonna get because this is what works whether you like it or not. Because it doesn't work in your hands doesn't mean it can't in the others.

@"Buran.3796"After the changes I still have enough energy to do whatever I was doing post bug fix, so I can't agree with that.

....that’s not at all what I was saying and you’re taking things to the extremes here with some your sarcastic remarks.

Revenant is not my idea. It was Anet’s and in particular Roy’s, and what he envisioned. It is not what I envisioned. I’m simply telling you what the class was intended to be from his design. If it gets changed too much, like the direction it’s is currently going, the class is going to lose its identity. That’s all I’m saying. No need for the targeted sarcasm. If you want to take that road, have at it. The road is yours.

You ask me to stop asking for changes to mold my ideas into the class, yet you opened a thread to ask for just the same thing for your ideas. If you think the class is fine, then don’t open such threads.

Also, where did I ever say the class doesn’t work for me now or ever? I can answer that. I didn’t. There is no need to make things personal, so please stop.

Let's see what's the class identity about.. Low cooldowns.. Based on Energy.. The game has been getting a change of pace.. How's that killing identity exactly to have nerfs all around in the entire game? Thief been getting Initiative nerfs with utility CD increase, so has been Elementalist down right to Obsidian Flesh since they have been compared so much, even better still. Nothing plays like Revenant regardless, in fact if we're talking identity by design the class has been sacrificing some efficient of skills by bad design to keep it's identity. (Renegade)

There's been claims of bad decisions for keeping the game as similar as possible by increasing energy costs instead, for what exactly? Why do people think it's better to ruin a skill that can't be freely swapped around rather than change the pace? That should be something you should know about as the one with more experience to throw around.

Clearly there's something wrong if there's constant complains and disagreement to the changes, that's not making it personal, just acknowledging that it doesn't work for you to have the nerfs handed out, otherwise why complain or even bother to discuss about it, why not tell me the problem surrounding the idea while putting out something else that have full context of the situation, such as not looking at a clip in a vacuum saying that doesn't represent anything but bad plays when it's the most common synergy.

Sorry, maybe I expressed the sentiment of "molding" to your ideals wrong, but there was power creep and you refused to acknowledge it thinking it was all fine instead by going as far to mention people just plain suck and should punish, granted it's been taken care of now. There's not a whole lot left for Revenant to be balanced and only improved because of design flaws that are in practice required for relevance. As for the other classes, mostly Guardians conditions that were untouched, Rangers pets and multipliers that were untouched, people saying Necromancers are still having overperforming Lifeforce but I kinda disagree as only the US ICD been problematic.

And once again, your saying things I didn’t mention.

And you dif make it personal by several of your remarks toward me in both above replies. So, enjoy that road ?

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@"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:

Revenant is not my idea. It was Anet’s and in particular Roy’s, and what he envisioned. It is not what I envisioned. I’m simply telling you what the class was intended to be from his design. If it gets changed too much, like the direction it’s is currently going, the class is going to lose its identity.

I entirely agree with this. I would remark some milestones about the Revenent identity:

  • The staff was never envisaged as a weapon that roots you in place; Herald already provided that with the block in the shield and we had already lost a block on movement in the off hand sword. They botched the block in the sword "to provide damage instead", then erased the sword damage, made it slow as the hammer, removed the interrupt in the staff #2 and finally made the #5 useless to disengage.
  • Condition Revenant was designed to be slower but tankier, and to have better AoE damage and better tools to endure conditions; the main source of damage was torment, with a bit of burning. Then with PoF they provided a condition weapon based on bleeds with 0 synergies with the core condi Revenant, and without defensive or mobility tools. Kalla was also designed as squishy, with summons than die easily, the stunbreak in the heal, and some other atrocities.

    They should have nerfed the damage of power Herald instead of botching the flow of its skills, it would have lessen the weight of the class in PvP without turning it in a trainwreck. I don't buy the argument of "less frequent skills, more weight in their use"; the game is as spammy as before the patch: the only difference is that now it takes longer to kill foes.

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@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@Xca.9721 said:

@Xca.9721 said:Anet keeps increasing the energy costs for utility skills rather than nerfing the functionality of them. This is such a lazy handling of balancing things.

Make your pick, useless skill that costs nothing or useful skill that cost something. I lean towards useful skill that cost something, afaik Mallyx is still good with proper plays so it was the right call instead of making it's skills useless.

Riposting Shadows is no exception, Shiro is still well beyond playable and just as strong with proper decision making.

More like "useful skill that costs too much". It´s no fun to play a class that can´t even use half of their utility because the energy is drained by too expensive skills.

Both Shiro and Mallyx were bloated and too easy to use, there's not much to say otherwise. Jalis was always expensive and always worked fine, so it's no excuse to ignore the rest when everyone's getting the same threatment.

Even if it is true (and not necessarily is), the solution is not to increase energy, but reduce the bloat. And in the past, both Pain Absorption and CtA cost was reduced specifically cuz the high cost rendered them obsolete.

This is just a bandied the devs threw cuz they are too lazy to come-up with functional solutions to problems, they unnecessarily created, with previous broken patch.

Y'all always have the same broken record of a comment, whether it's lazy or not. There's no point in coming up with a better skill when the skill itself is fine and the constant usage is the problem.

I don't know what you're trying to achieve by saying pressing the same skill over and over at a low cost and effect is better, it's not. It's a ridiculous idea.

@Shao.7236 said:It's also another case of if it was just energy, people could just spam it, weapons have cooldowns for that and so some skills do for balance, just have to accept it. This class isn't Thief, it's a whole entire different beast of synergy flipping back and forth. Adjustments were needed because the whole game is changing, that doesn't mean costs will keep increasing when they were too low to begin with.

Actually, you’re slightly wrong here in regards to your Thief comment. The original concept and released Revenant was indeed for the class to be somewhere between Elementalist Attunements (Legend swap) and Thief Initative (energy system) as a throw back to the energy system used in G1.

What we have today doesn’t really reflect that as well anymore and the class is now way to restricted with double penalties of CDs and higher energy costs. A reduction of abilities is a much better solution and more fitting to the intended Revenant conception and release.

What double penalties? Are you saying every Elementalist skills are useful or that a Thief can burst 10 times in a row??

God it would be fun to put perma quarter sec pulse stab and spam weak sauce unrelenting assault, totally healthy gameplay right there, or would you say no lets rework everything to something else even thought the system is fine now? Yeah, absolutely try to balance relevant skills on perma usage based an on energy pool only, that's when you're gonna get higher energy costs. As you were the one saying there is better things to invest than functionality fixes, stop asking the devs to mold the existing ideas to yours. Accept what the Revenant really is, not what you envisioned, you're not gonna get an elementalist thief, what you have is Revenant and this is the concept you should engrave on your mind to suggest ideas about, not scrap and redesign because it doesn't work for you.

The game has shifted and the classes are adjusted, this is what you're gonna get because this is what works whether you like it or not. Because it doesn't work in your hands doesn't mean it can't in the others.

@Buran.3796After the changes I still have enough energy to do whatever I was doing post bug fix, so I can't agree with that.

....that’s not at all what I was saying and you’re taking things to the extremes here with some your sarcastic remarks.

Revenant is not my idea. It was Anet’s and in particular Roy’s, and what he envisioned. It is not what I envisioned. I’m simply telling you what the class was intended to be from his design. If it gets changed too much, like the direction it’s is currently going, the class is going to lose its identity. That’s all I’m saying. No need for the targeted sarcasm. If you want to take that road, have at it. The road is yours.

You ask me to stop asking for changes to mold my ideas into the class, yet you opened a thread to ask for just the same thing for your ideas. If you think the class is fine, then don’t open such threads.

Also, where did I ever say the class doesn’t work for me now or ever? I can answer that. I didn’t. There is no need to make things personal, so please stop.

Let's see what's the class identity about.. Low cooldowns.. Based on Energy.. The game has been getting a change of pace.. How's that killing identity exactly to have nerfs all around in the entire game? Thief been getting Initiative nerfs with utility CD increase, so has been Elementalist down right to Obsidian Flesh since they have been compared so much, even better still. Nothing plays like Revenant regardless, in fact if we're talking identity by design the class has been sacrificing some efficient of skills by bad design to keep it's identity. (Renegade)

There's been claims of bad decisions for keeping the game as similar as possible by increasing energy costs instead, for what exactly? Why do people think it's better to ruin a skill that can't be freely swapped around rather than change the pace? That should be something you should know about as the one with more experience to throw around.

Clearly there's something wrong if there's constant complains and disagreement to the changes, that's not making it personal, just acknowledging that it doesn't work for you to have the nerfs handed out, otherwise why complain or even bother to discuss about it, why not tell me the problem surrounding the idea while putting out something else that have full context of the situation, such as not looking at a clip in a vacuum saying that doesn't represent anything but bad plays when it's the most common synergy.

Sorry, maybe I expressed the sentiment of "molding" to your ideals wrong, but there was power creep and you refused to acknowledge it thinking it was all fine instead by going as far to mention people just plain suck and should punish, granted it's been taken care of now. There's not a whole lot left for Revenant to be balanced and only improved because of design flaws that are in practice required for relevance. As for the other classes, mostly Guardians conditions that were untouched, Rangers pets and multipliers that were untouched, people saying Necromancers are still having overperforming Lifeforce but I kinda disagree as only the US ICD been problematic.

And once again, your saying things I didn’t mention.

And you dif make it personal by several of your remarks toward me in both above replies. So, enjoy that road ?

Because you're on a different thread doesn't mean what you said before in another one doesn't have any relevance. That's just hypocritical, let alone the fact you couldn't even calculate energy properly or the behavior of the pool. There's nothing personal about keeping consistency about your thoughts on the matter. Yes, I'll enjoy the road of being honest about something overperforming even if it's my own things, have a good day.

@Buran.3796 said:

Revenant is not my idea. It was Anet’s and in particular Roy’s, and what he envisioned. It is not what I envisioned. I’m simply telling you what the class was intended to be from his design. If it gets changed too much, like the direction it’s is currently going, the class is going to lose its identity.

I entirely agree with this. I would remark some milestones about the Revenent identity:
  • The staff was never envisaged as a weapon that roots you in place; Herald already provided that with the block in the shield and we had already lost a block on movement in the off hand sword. They botched the block in the sword "to provide damage instead", then erased the sword damage, made it slow as the hammer, removed the interrupt in the staff #2 and finally made the #5 useless to disengage.I don't get your statement on this.
  • Condition Revenant was designed to be slower but tankier, and to have better AoE damage and better tools to endure conditions; the main source of damage was torment, with a bit of burning. Then with PoF they provided a condition weapon based on bleeds with 0 synergies with the core condi Revenant, and without defensive or mobility tools. Kalla was also designed as squishy, with summons than die easily, the stunbreak in the heal, and some other atrocities.No legend can stand on it's own.. Doesn't help the fact people always favored Shiro.They should have nerfed the damage of power Herald instead of botching the flow of its skills, it would have lessen the weight of the class in PvP without turning it in a trainwreck. I don't buy the argument of "less frequent skills, more weight in their use"; the game is as spammy as before the patch: the only difference is that now it takes longer to kill foes.How do you nerf damage on power Herald when it all comes from Core in the first place? Besides, if you put a timeline in compensations of the events that can occur shortly in a fight, you'd see how greatly unfair Mallyx was when untouched compared the new patch. Aside EtD could have gone untouched but now that leaves more classes to be tweaked meanwhile BE was used extremely often, my opinion remain that 25 would have been a better start while PA could have gone untouched with it's vulnerability compared Shiro or Jalis, I guess the following effects of Resistance is considered by Anet to be over exceeding it's cost in the new patch.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@Xca.9721 said:

@Xca.9721 said:Anet keeps increasing the energy costs for utility skills rather than nerfing the functionality of them. This is such a lazy handling of balancing things.

Make your pick, useless skill that costs nothing or useful skill that cost something. I lean towards useful skill that cost something, afaik Mallyx is still good with proper plays so it was the right call instead of making it's skills useless.

Riposting Shadows is no exception, Shiro is still well beyond playable and just as strong with proper decision making.

More like "useful skill that costs too much". It´s no fun to play a class that can´t even use half of their utility because the energy is drained by too expensive skills.

Both Shiro and Mallyx were bloated and too easy to use, there's not much to say otherwise. Jalis was always expensive and always worked fine, so it's no excuse to ignore the rest when everyone's getting the same threatment.

Even if it is true (and not necessarily is), the solution is not to increase energy, but reduce the bloat. And in the past, both Pain Absorption and CtA cost was reduced specifically cuz the high cost rendered them obsolete.

This is just a bandied the devs threw cuz they are too lazy to come-up with functional solutions to problems, they unnecessarily created, with previous broken patch.

Y'all always have the same broken record of a comment, whether it's lazy or not. There's no point in coming up with a better skill when the skill itself is fine and the constant usage is the problem.

I don't know what you're trying to achieve by saying pressing the same skill over and over at a low cost and effect is better, it's not. It's a ridiculous idea.

@Shao.7236 said:It's also another case of if it was just energy, people could just spam it, weapons have cooldowns for that and so some skills do for balance, just have to accept it. This class isn't Thief, it's a whole entire different beast of synergy flipping back and forth. Adjustments were needed because the whole game is changing, that doesn't mean costs will keep increasing when they were too low to begin with.

Actually, you’re slightly wrong here in regards to your Thief comment. The original concept and released Revenant was indeed for the class to be somewhere between Elementalist Attunements (Legend swap) and Thief Initative (energy system) as a throw back to the energy system used in G1.

What we have today doesn’t really reflect that as well anymore and the class is now way to restricted with double penalties of CDs and higher energy costs. A reduction of abilities is a much better solution and more fitting to the intended Revenant conception and release.

What double penalties? Are you saying every Elementalist skills are useful or that a Thief can burst 10 times in a row??

God it would be fun to put perma quarter sec pulse stab and spam weak sauce unrelenting assault, totally healthy gameplay right there, or would you say no lets rework everything to something else even thought the system is fine now? Yeah, absolutely try to balance relevant skills on perma usage based an on energy pool only, that's when you're gonna get higher energy costs. As you were the one saying there is better things to invest than functionality fixes, stop asking the devs to mold the existing ideas to yours. Accept what the Revenant really is, not what you envisioned, you're not gonna get an elementalist thief, what you have is Revenant and this is the concept you should engrave on your mind to suggest ideas about, not scrap and redesign because it doesn't work for you.

The game has shifted and the classes are adjusted, this is what you're gonna get because this is what works whether you like it or not. Because it doesn't work in your hands doesn't mean it can't in the others.

@Buran.3796After the changes I still have enough energy to do whatever I was doing post bug fix, so I can't agree with that.

....that’s not at all what I was saying and you’re taking things to the extremes here with some your sarcastic remarks.

Revenant is not my idea. It was Anet’s and in particular Roy’s, and what he envisioned. It is not what I envisioned. I’m simply telling you what the class was intended to be from his design. If it gets changed too much, like the direction it’s is currently going, the class is going to lose its identity. That’s all I’m saying. No need for the targeted sarcasm. If you want to take that road, have at it. The road is yours.

You ask me to stop asking for changes to mold my ideas into the class, yet you opened a thread to ask for just the same thing for your ideas. If you think the class is fine, then don’t open such threads.

Also, where did I ever say the class doesn’t work for me now or ever? I can answer that. I didn’t. There is no need to make things personal, so please stop.

Let's see what's the class identity about.. Low cooldowns.. Based on Energy.. The game has been getting a change of pace.. How's that killing identity exactly to have nerfs all around in the entire game? Thief been getting Initiative nerfs with utility CD increase, so has been Elementalist down right to Obsidian Flesh since they have been compared so much, even better still. Nothing plays like Revenant regardless, in fact if we're talking identity by design the class has been sacrificing some efficient of skills by bad design to keep it's identity. (Renegade)

There's been claims of bad decisions for keeping the game as similar as possible by increasing energy costs instead, for what exactly? Why do people think it's better to ruin a skill that can't be freely swapped around rather than change the pace? That should be something you should know about as the one with more experience to throw around.

Clearly there's something wrong if there's constant complains and disagreement to the changes, that's not making it personal, just acknowledging that it doesn't work for you to have the nerfs handed out, otherwise why complain or even bother to discuss about it, why not tell me the problem surrounding the idea while putting out something else that have full context of the situation, such as not looking at a clip in a vacuum saying that doesn't represent anything but bad plays when it's the most common synergy.

Sorry, maybe I expressed the sentiment of "molding" to your ideals wrong, but there was power creep and you refused to acknowledge it thinking it was all fine instead by going as far to mention people just plain suck and should punish, granted it's been taken care of now. There's not a whole lot left for Revenant to be balanced and only improved because of design flaws that are in practice required for relevance. As for the other classes, mostly Guardians conditions that were untouched, Rangers pets and multipliers that were untouched, people saying Necromancers are still having overperforming Lifeforce but I kinda disagree as only the US ICD been problematic.

And once again, your saying things I didn’t mention.

And you dif make it personal by several of your remarks toward me in both above replies. So, enjoy that road ?

Because you're on a different thread doesn't mean what you said before in another one doesn't have any relevance. That's just hypocritical, let alone the fact you couldn't even calculate energy properly or the behavior of the pool. There's nothing personal about keeping consistency about your thoughts on the matter. Yes, I'll enjoy the road of being honest about something overperforming even if it's my own things, have a good day.

Revenant is not my idea. It was Anet’s and in particular Roy’s, and what he envisioned. It is not what I envisioned. I’m simply telling you what the class was intended to be from his design. If it gets changed too much, like the direction it’s is currently going, the class is going to lose its identity.

I entirely agree with this. I would remark some milestones about the Revenent identity:
  • The staff was never envisaged as a weapon that roots you in place; Herald already provided that with the block in the shield and we had already lost a block on movement in the off hand sword. They botched the block in the sword "to provide damage instead", then erased the sword damage, made it slow as the hammer, removed the interrupt in the staff #2 and finally made the #5 useless to disengage.I don't get your statement on this.
  • Condition Revenant was designed to be slower but tankier, and to have better AoE damage and better tools to endure conditions; the main source of damage was torment, with a bit of burning. Then with PoF they provided a condition weapon based on bleeds with 0 synergies with the core condi Revenant, and without defensive or mobility tools. Kalla was also designed as squishy, with summons than die easily, the stunbreak in the heal, and some other atrocities.No legend can stand on it's own.. Doesn't help the fact people always favored Shiro.They should have nerfed the damage of power Herald instead of botching the flow of its skills, it would have lessen the weight of the class in PvP without turning it in a trainwreck. I don't buy the argument of "less frequent skills, more weight in their use"; the game is as spammy as before the patch: the only difference is that now it takes longer to kill foes.How do you nerf damage on power Herald when it all comes from Core in the first place? Besides, if you put a timeline in compensations of the events that can occur shortly in a fight, you'd see how greatly unfair Mallyx was when untouched compared the new patch. Aside EtD could have gone untouched but now that leaves more classes to be tweaked meanwhile BE was used extremely often, my opinion remain that 25 would have been a better start while PA could have gone untouched with it's vulnerability compared Shiro or Jalis, I guess the following effects of Resistance is considered by Anet to be over exceeding it's cost in the new patch.

Herald was where a lot of the damage in traits was coming from, its still there too. A 15% increase for having upkeep ticking? Well throw up some upkeep and go to town, they are entirly correct in saying that the elite spec itself was way too loaded. (And dominated as the only real way to play rev for a long time.) The other legends SHOULD be able to stand on their own two feet, legendary heroes of our world brought to fight through a vessel? Its a "Hero" class or an "Elite" class unique to itself, it also comes with an expansion and has been handled poorly since its inception. Each legend had its own roles to fill and elite specs or at least glint was designed to be somewhat like invocation and be able to bend to match your build based on what you wanted to do with it. However inherent problems remain, and some are larger than what anyone in this thread has actually covered.

  • As a rev main Im not enjoying my class anymore, the constant changes have made it become something but not what I picked it up for. (Its what brought me back durring HoT as I grew tired of the other classes. And as a guild wars 1 player I was inherently interested)
    • The changes to staff has made it trash, you could remove it and it wouldn't even be something to worry about. Shield is in the same boat, and short bow is in the same boat and hell even hammer is in a near similar place.
    • We have no core ranged condi-set, which sucks because being stuck in melee when our stun-breaks are unwieldy now and we lost our legend swap stunbreak sucks. Im not terrible with the class but no where near the best; And I find it hard to solo roam now because my class feels purposely gimped because people refused to learn how to play against a rev; And just cried for it to be nerfed so here we are. Changed again and made to be something we weren't intended to be~
    • Rev's kits initially when it came forward with HoT seemed to be catered, built and tailor made for PvP. (Blocks, interrupts, evades, counters for what was coming in the expansion. And unique mechanics built for the class.) Most of which was stripped away so it could be streamlined for Raids because at the time of HoT it had NO PLACE in that gameplay and was hard pressed to find groups with how the game was at the time. (We were built for different play, we needed love not reworks.)
    • Power feels weak as hell now, and condi is going to be gutted with how much QQ is going on about it. Runes of tormenting are a main stapple of the mallyx build to give us some sustain to go along with our build but it STILL Feels too squishy even in Trail-blazers. I can evade sure, and I can counter a lot of whats coming but it just doesn't feel strong anymore. The class feels like crap right now and honestly it feels like they are trying to kill it and get people away from it so they can remove it, that is how I feel about it right now. I know its not that way but damn it we just had a good round of reworks; And now another set and I am so sick and tired of having to Re-learn my class with no new toys to play with while having my old toys taken away.
    • Cooldowns on Weapon skills, with no energy cost and no cooldowns on utilities with energy cost would be FINE and should be how it is. We shouldn't need both for both sets as the energy is linked to the legends we are using; The weapons should be cooldowns and something our character is bringing to the table, which thematically would make sense. We are warriors channeling their power; Using it in ways in which we can best make use of them to our skill set and advantages.
    • Weapons should function like trident, and your legend should effect what kind of effects they have. If you run mallyx its condi, if you run shiro its power and so on. This way we could have our weapons mean SO much more in the long run; And be more beneficial so that revenants would be freed up to take whatever weapon we want, so we can be whatever we want. (Makes up for the lack of customization in the utility department.)
    • Bring back some of the old functions of rev weapons (Block on sword? Was good back before they gutted it.) Especially if you want us to be this bruiser type character you seem to be pushing us toward; Right now the class feels disorganized and as if you don't know what you want it to be at all regardless of how it specs. Id rather have functionality, uniqueness and flare as it originally had and an identity for the class and its specs as it was intended than this.

Its identity is a mystical warrior who harnesses ancient powers few could even dream of using; They aren't using natural powers of tyria and they are using a almost inbetween of all places as a font of power. I personally feel almost all the changes made in this patch were a mistake, you shouldn't be dumbing down the mechanics side of it or the gameplay loop. Damage? Sure. NOT the actual gameplay of a class and the tools in which it can use within said gameplay, you essentially have pigeon holed us once again. And before the QQ starts about Rev, let me remind you several other classes were HARDLY touched this past patch with most of their mechanics being left alone as well their tools with it almost being damage exclusively being what took the hit. Meanwhile we have complete mechanic overhauls for two legends, and Invocation is gutted to make sure we are getting stun locked like everyone else. The class feels slower, but not in the proper way . It feels slower in movement and gameplay on its own, not within the damage. You can still get good bursts and still hit like a truck, that didn't change but what did change is our class loosing a good chunk of what made it fun and unique and that was its "Flow". It was fluid and felt good to play as you could almost dance around the battle with your skills, and use the utility of your kit to out maneuver your enemy. Now? Pfft its the same as every other class, it has less tools that both guardian and warrior with guardian honestly being the only heavy that is still worth its weight. Warrior got hit hard, and is in a rocky place and now we are too so It doesn't surprise me that many people are upset and are asking "Why"? I myself have moved over to another class to dabble to see what will come of this, as I know mallyx is on fast track to getting gutted hard. If they nerf condi in the current state rev is in, the class is dead because power sucks. So as a rev main my inspiration to play the game is at an all time low....

Feels like no one who knows, cares or plays the class at all made these changes. And that without being disrespectful it was someone who was mad that a rev killed them, so they decided to end the class as it was to ensure it could never have the capability of killing its precious baby again. (A bit of salt, and a bit of anger coming through here. But that is how this feels to me.)

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@Thornwolf.9721 I appreciate the reply and should you take a look at my own thread of suggestions to see that we share a lot in common, however no matter the mixed feelings that I even have, the game is changing and this is the path we have to take for the class to remain balanced in it's design. We can't have offense and defense at the same time like before, this is why legend swapping is even more encouraged after Empty Vessel removal, it was an extremely toxic trait for the class.

What Revenant was back then is also quite unfair but was equally unfair to the other offerings, at least on the Power side, Condition side was indifferent for a while, unchanged but quite playable. We got small reworks and those we're not even welcomed by it's most favorable users, from where I suppose I was the only one always accepting of the decisions Anet has made.

At least until those recent ones because now changes have been done in a way that punishes a class that was mostly doing nothing wrong aside one thing while there is still the very famous Guardian that is the cause of those nerfs, yet to be touched still since the hard changes of Scourges that were also supported by the Guardian, that's two classes getting the swift changes where as it's obvious what the root cause of the problems is and yet to be addressed.

Back to the Condition side however, it was the best changes there was yet here I was among probably 5 players at best playing the class the way I was or at least close to until Shiro got the nerf it deserved (Like Spellbreaker and Warrior did), now we had people running this power crept design of Mallyx that needed some but very minor tweaks, it got more than it should have but that's beside the point, the point was that as soon as Shiro changed, everyone was so scared they looked for an alternative and found this one with Mallyx that I remember everyone so called it subpar but it was clearly not.

Anyway, as for Herald maybe you did use Forceful Persistence but the meta wasn't it. It was Draconic Echo and as for damage, unless you're Marauder I disagree, Power still hits really hard in the current patch and Chilling Isolation is quite a wonderful rework of the skill with it's consistent high damage unlike Precision Strike RNG.

To put in perspective for that Herald trait you are talking about though, realistically, how does anyone benefit from that without being at a complete disavantage after? Never would you Impossible Odds + Phase Traversal to Deathstrike, that's extremely unlikely to succeed on fresh start and no Herald has ever done that to be fair when I faced one, an Unrelenting Assault at best or a confident cleave on downed, otherwise that leaves just the facets at barely an increase, so it's hard to see how this trait makes itself to be a problem where as before and after on core, I or anyone would do just as much damage as Herald was the Incensed Response nerf (Among other things too, but this is the biggest one).

So in the end, I don't think Herald was much of a problem, only how core worked well with it in a way and Core was nerfed too hard because of it, all that was needed is just Incensed Response Might duration or the amount to be nerfed, a shame

For the weapons I'd love to agree, I used to think so as well but then you run into problems such as not even having the need to create new weapons anymore for the profession if you do that, underwater is extremely niche and Revenant was in desperate need of some extreme variation and this is why we got it this way. We have energy costs on weapons because if we didn't we'd have the same problem Empty Vessel had which is the lack of ever being able to properly CC a Revenant or making players actually play Revenant at all, you could permanently stunbreak or run around with perma protection at little to not risk.

I agree to the no core condi set, at least a little besides the fact Revenant exceeds extremely well at CQC for Condis and giving it this benefit would probably introduce a lot of balancing issues again, there's a lot of reasons as to why they want use to be invested in Renegade for that Shortbow but have you know that when you'll be playing some more Revenant, notice how weapon swapping is barely if not needed at all. This is the sort of problem we are dealing with because the profession by design was only meant to have one weapon to begin with and they are just starting to try and compensate that around as well.

That's just food for thought however, meta PvE Renegade has no benefits weapon swapping as a DPS. It can camp bow and deal the same if not more damage, crazy facts.

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