Trying to understand Ranger competitive balance over the years

[Vamp Rook.7835]

I've been playing this game since GW1 beta, always as a competitive player so I'm trying to do a recap of Ranger balance so maybe i can understand what are they doing.

At start of the game, Rangers had the sb autoattack spam, but anet nerfed it because "they didn't want a prof based on spamming", then the only viable build was pew pew and usually having a pew pew was like playing 4vs5, we didn't had good pvp build till spirits come, they're totally op and nerfed and again Ranger destroyed and being useless.

With HoT, Druids come, Ranger become again totally op and they got infitine nerfs till they're unplayable, they released PoF, beastmaster was totally underperforming and they reworked it, we had again a good build that was again overnerfed, at same time and for no reason they nerfed again druid damage because yes.

Now with this patch and after months without a good pvp build i was expecting a few buffs, but not, even knowing that Ranger is useless and totally out of the meta they nerfed Rangers again because "Soulbeasts, long standing without a tradeoff, are now receiving theirs", now we are on a point where core Ranger is better than specs.

Why Ranger was nerfed again?

[spankyed.4735]

Because of players cry in chat that Soulbeast op in WvW ( kinda was the same as mirage). The truth i think Anet doesnt know what to do with ranger, its op then nerfed to ground + wvw dont play ranger in camps( obstructed is still a thing cant hit a target in front of you).

[Axl.8924]

Can someone explain to me what 3 traits i can use to get those infamously huge bursts? is it all at one? is it certain ability then those utilities?

This is from madison something:

Like I said before, the logic of these forums is "I died to something. I died because that something is OP and needs nerfs."Assuming what was said on the prior page was true, OP had hard fought 2v2s against literally one of the best rangers in this game who made it to world championships etc, and barely lost, and therefore ranger is OP.Ya ok. OP seems like a cool headed guy who is trying to have a serious discussion about it so I'm not gonna tell him to L2P or anything b/c obviously he's good enough to be competing with a top tier ranger, but when you are calling for nerfs of ranger citing a 7.1k maul of all things and. . . .smoke assault animation. . .I question things.You do realize a FULLY glass ranger (2-3 offense uts and all damage traits + zerker etc) can do like 15k on other glass with maul still, right? You were even shown proof that the class you were playing (DH) can do the exact same thing with full glass. Every class can do it because zerker amulet and damage modifiers exist. I predict that's the next thing people are going to call to be removed, because apparently dying is not fun?You cite ranger having more active defense than other glass builds so it needs a nerf? Bullkitten, glass power core mesmer has much better active defense IMO when traited fully glass for example, and the way these rangers melt like butter when I catch them is appropriate for the way they make you melt like butter when they catch you. It just sounds like you, and the other people complaining about this, like slower-paced "strategic" combat, where as a number of the rest of us like faster based twitch combat.

Trying to underst and what they are talking about

What traits and stuff is this only apply to SLB?

[bigo.9037]

Yea. I run full dmg traits. No stability, 2 stunbreakers. All zerk with scholar runes.I get 1 hit by gunflame warriors, and I can 1 hit them too unless they use endure pain. But even tho I'm playing full glass, people will say ranger is OP.

In wvw, people will see a really good ranger player killing 2 ppl at same time , kiting hard, outplaying them, use perfect positioning and WIN... just to say ranger is OP.

Bruh. You would've lost even if ranger was nerfed. You got outplayed hard because you're not as good as that guy, that's why you lost. Not because "X class is OP"

[Mini Crinny.6190]

the recent nerfs was due to Anet bringing down the power creep, every class received it and even if the class was not really that great, it still needed to be bought down a level as then it would be the next class to bandwagon onto until anet nerfed it, obviously Guard and Necro came out as the most broken specs after the patch aswell as Condi Rev and received a further nerf on tuesday i think it was? Anet have nerfed core traits and skills due to Elite specs which is pretty annoying tbh but that's what they've done, anyway it's a waiting game for the next balance patch to see what they do now.

[Revolution.5409]

@"Axl.8924" said:Can someone explain to me what 3 traits i can use to get those infamously huge bursts? is it all at one? is it certain ability then those utilities?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moment_of_Clarityhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Zephyr

[Axl.8924]

I got all but zephyr on me, now i kinda understand. just trying to find out if knockback counts to activate moment of clarity. Gs doesn't have any immobs or cripples. and neither does LB I think.

Well, I could run-up to a person and daze them get a moment of clarity then hit sickem on them.

[Revolution.5409]

@Axl.8924 said:I got all but zephyr on me, now i kinda understand. just trying to find out if knockback counts to activate moment of clarity. Gs doesn't have any immobs or cripples. and neither does LB I think.

Well, I could run-up to a person and daze them get a moment of clarity then hit sickem on them.

You can get Moment of Clarity from Point-Blank Shot from Hilt Bash from Maul's Pre-casting after you have merged with the pet, and from skills obtained in BM mode for example Charge.

Quickening Zephyr is optional, many prefer to use another defensive ability, I like it for the Superspeed, Maul has a slow and easy animation to dodge with that ability you can exert more pressure and it's a Breaks Stun

[Eurantien.4632]

Ranger Meta:

1. Trap ranger. Nerfed because traps could be thrown. Traps were moved to the skirmishing line and never saw play again (they somewhat work now in 2v2s).
2. Beastmaster ranger. Condi or Power. Pets were hitting too hard so pet damage was nerfed. Since this time the really tanky amulets have been removed and classes have higher damage so the pets die a lot easier. People are complaining about pet damage again now.
3. Spirit Ranger. This class had moving spirits and nature's vengeance allowed the spirits to activate upon their deaths. People would cleave out the spirits and stand in them and die. They complained. It got obliterated. Spirits became stationary. Spirits were reworked in the last year to their current version and are arguably worse.
4. Druid. Druid became meta through super tanky amulets and pet damage being too high. Pet damage got nerfed (bristelback and smokescale) and the tanky amulet was removed.
5. Druid again. Druid was able to stay in the meta with a psuedo support lb/staff (most common) that would use its heals and stealth with astral form to give peels to the reaper. Druid got astral force nerfed a lot and healing nerfed a lot. Stopped seeing play till now.
6. Boonbeast, nerfed stances
7. Power ranger. never truly been meta. Kinda meta now? Gonna get nerfed for damage being too high on full glass specs.

[bigo.9037]

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I got all but zephyr on me, now i kinda understand. just trying to find out if knockback counts to activate moment of clarity. Gs doesn't have any immobs or cripples. and neither does LB I think.

Well, I could run-up to a person and daze them get a moment of clarity then hit sickem on them.

You can get Moment of Clarity from Point-Blank Shot from Hilt Bash from Maul's Pre-casting after you have merged with the pet, and from skills obtained in BM mode for example Charge.

Quickening Zephyr is optional, many prefer to use another defensive ability, I like it for the Superspeed, Maul has a slow and easy animation to dodge with that ability you can exert more pressure and it's a Breaks Stun

Good luck pulling this off when firebrand and necro can spam aegis, aoe daze, blinds and necro weaken you so you deal almost 0 dmg. MM is still mostly a meme traitline.

[bigo.9037]

@Eurantien.4632 said:Ranger Meta:

1. Trap ranger. Nerfed because traps could be thrown. Traps were moved to the skirmishing line and never saw play again (they somewhat work now in 2v2s).
2. Beastmaster ranger. Condi or Power. Pets were hitting too hard so pet damage was nerfed. Since this time the really tanky amulets have been removed and classes have higher damage so the pets die a lot easier. People are complaining about pet damage again now.
3. Spirit Ranger. This class had moving spirits and nature's vengeance allowed the spirits to activate upon their deaths. People would cleave out the spirits and stand in them and die. They complained. It got obliterated. Spirits became stationary. Spirits were reworked in the last year to their current version and are arguably worse.
4. Druid. Druid became meta through super tanky amulets and pet damage being too high. Pet damage got nerfed (bristelback and smokescale) and the tanky amulet was removed.
5. Druid again. Druid was able to stay in the meta with a psuedo support lb/staff (most common) that would use its heals and stealth with astral form to give peels to the reaper. Druid got astral force nerfed a lot and healing nerfed a lot. Stopped seeing play till now.
6. Boonbeast, nerfed stances
7. Power ranger. never truly been meta. Kinda meta now? Gonna get nerfed for damage being too high on full glass specs.

Druid pet nerfs were nice as it was pretty stupid you could be super tanky, load your pet up with fury, 25might stacks from naturemagic traitline and then burst someone to 10% health if they didn't dodge bristleback f2 lmao.

Also, after pof drop and boonbeast bunker with siamoth was meta, that was actually terrible. I didn't even play it cus it was just so stupid.

I've always wanted to see soulbeast have a viable power build because it's the most fun, and now it is viable as long as you're not fighting FB.

But ofc, soulbeast will be completely gutted and destroyed before anything ever happens to FB.

I think on 17th we will see FB get slight cooldown increase on some tomes, and ranger maul + WI dmg will be cut by 20% and stat bonus from beastmastery will be cut by 33% making soulbeast effectively useless.

[Revolution.5409]

@bigo.9037 said:

Good luck pulling this off when firebrand and necro can spam aegis, aoe daze, blinds and necro weaken you so you deal almost 0 dmg. MM is still mostly a meme traitline.

I know it's not always easy to get against some professions, but kiting and waiting for a good moment, you can do it :)

@Eurantien.4632 said:Ranger Meta:

1. Trap ranger. Nerfed because traps could be thrown. Traps were moved to the skirmishing line and never saw play again (they somewhat work now in 2v2s).
2. Beastmaster ranger. Condi or Power. Pets were hitting too hard so pet damage was nerfed. Since this time the really tanky amulets have been removed and classes have higher damage so the pets die a lot easier. People are complaining about pet damage again now.
3. Spirit Ranger. This class had moving spirits and nature's vengeance allowed the spirits to activate upon their deaths. People would cleave out the spirits and stand in them and die. They complained. It got obliterated. Spirits became stationary. Spirits were reworked in the last year to their current version and are arguably worse.
4. Druid. Druid became meta through super tanky amulets and pet damage being too high. Pet damage got nerfed (bristelback and smokescale) and the tanky amulet was removed.
5. Druid again. Druid was able to stay in the meta with a psuedo support lb/staff (most common) that would use its heals and stealth with astral form to give peels to the reaper. Druid got astral force nerfed a lot and healing nerfed a lot. Stopped seeing play till now.
6. Boonbeast, nerfed stances
7. Power ranger. never truly been meta. Kinda meta now? Gonna get nerfed for damage being too high on full glass specs.

OMG I LOVED EACH OF THESE BUILDS!Still today, the Beastmaster Condition with ax / dagger and sword / torch is MY FAVORITE BUILD, with 1200 leash pets BEAUTIFUL XDBunker Druid omg I still remember 15 minutes of fighting with a Tempet on the point, Bunker meta LOL

You forgot the power shortbow 1200 range, that build was cancerous :)

[bigo.9037]

@Revolution.5409 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

Good luck pulling this off when firebrand and necro can spam aegis, aoe daze, blinds and necro weaken you so you deal almost 0 dmg. MM is still mostly a meme traitline.

I know it's not always easy to get against some professions, but kiting and waiting for a good moment, you can do it :)

@Eurantien.4632 said:Ranger Meta:

1. Trap ranger. Nerfed because traps could be thrown. Traps were moved to the skirmishing line and never saw play again (they somewhat work now in 2v2s).
2. Beastmaster ranger. Condi or Power. Pets were hitting too hard so pet damage was nerfed. Since this time the really tanky amulets have been removed and classes have higher damage so the pets die a lot easier. People are complaining about pet damage again now.
3. Spirit Ranger. This class had moving spirits and nature's vengeance allowed the spirits to activate upon their deaths. People would cleave out the spirits and stand in them and die. They complained. It got obliterated. Spirits became stationary. Spirits were reworked in the last year to their current version and are arguably worse.
4. Druid. Druid became meta through super tanky amulets and pet damage being too high. Pet damage got nerfed (bristelback and smokescale) and the tanky amulet was removed.
5. Druid again. Druid was able to stay in the meta with a psuedo support lb/staff (most common) that would use its heals and stealth with astral form to give peels to the reaper. Druid got astral force nerfed a lot and healing nerfed a lot. Stopped seeing play till now.
6. Boonbeast, nerfed stances
7. Power ranger. never truly been meta. Kinda meta now? Gonna get nerfed for damage being too high on full glass specs.

OMG I LOVED EACH OF THESE BUILDS!Still today, the Beastmaster Condition with ax / dagger and sword / torch is MY FAVORITE BUILD, with 1200 leash pets BEAUTIFUL XDBunker Druid omg I still remember 15 minutes of fighting with a Tempet on the point, Bunker meta LOL

You forgot the power shortbow 1200 range, that build was cancerous :)

Oh yea you can definitely do it and I have done it multiple times but it just isn't worth using when mentioned specs can just try chipping you down the whole game while you can't do anything unless you land a perfect double stun burst combo and they are completely out of everything. All it takes is 1 aegis proc and your burst is gone. Or 1 blind or even a daze to interrupt you.

It can work but you're mostly scrambling just to survive until everything falls into place for you. And believe me, if you're fighting competent players they will see this coming a mile away. Everyone knows how soulbeast works.

I'm not saying it's bad, but FB just fucks everything over, imo. That spec needs to be straight up removed from the game and spvp will be better off.