Why are outfits gender locked?

[coso.9173]

@sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

@"coso.9173" said:people are not apples. and in a situation of actual abuse, if you stay neutral, you're indiretly taking the abuser's side. not saying this is the case. but there's no true impartiality on social issues where a minority has been abused for years by others.but lets get back on topic shall we? this topic has nothing to do with LGBTQ people or how many play the game. it's been stated many times already that this is about more options and leaving more choice instead of the usual tropes of sexy women and full armored guys.

This game already has many armor sets that are visually identical between sexes, and many that are not. Having different appearing armors between sexes is not a situation of abuse. The percentage of "sexy" armors vs non are also not in favor of someone trying to act like this game is forcing female characters to be dressed this way. If you personally are seeing a lot of "sexy" characters it's because people are choosing to make their characters that way. There are far more non sexy armor choices in the game than there are scantily clad ones.

More options are great, except as stated many many times already in this thread, creating 4 different versions of a single piece of armor per race instead of 2 is literally twice the work for barely any reward on Arenanet's part. Armor's in this game are custom fitted, they're not as simple as hitting a button to fit it to a form. Sometimes they make armor sets visually identical between the sexes, and sometimes they don't so there are actually options for everyone. My guardian for example is a huge norn wearing gladiator style armor that I would certainly not consider "fully armored." He has a lot of skin showing.

The issue is that there are still many options lacking. Mainly skimpy medium armor for males, wearable by humans. There are literally 0 options for that. Unless you count showing your arms skimpy. In the other side we have dozens of costs and long clothes. While females have both options in every armor type. This is why many people don't want such differences to exist.

[Windu The Forbidden One.60]

Redesigning all current female armor models to fit male body models (and vice versa) would be a tremendous waste of resources imo.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:I wonder which specific outfit(s) the OP is interested in. Most people in this thread, on both sides of the argument, seem to think this is about cross-dressing, but I don't think that's necessarily the case.Well, in my (perhaps simplistic) definition, cross-dressing is when someone wears clothing that are considered meant for the opposite gender. So when someone wants to put a female version on a male character that is cross-dressing in my mind. The reason why someone wants to do that is not part of my definition however.

As for your example of armor sets, I have to disagree with you. Things like bare shoulders, showing cleavage (bra-like tops), more flowery themes and exposed hips are definitely more associated with female dress styles. So I'll give you Rox's armor set but the rest are definitely feminine in the female versions. I mean sure, Asura and Charr but most people will be looking at the human, norn and sylvari ones and there the differences are generally very clear between them.

Sure, I did say "little or nothing". Perhaps I wasn't being specific enough. Take the Shadow Assassin outfit, for example. If I had just seen the female version, I'd expect the male version to look pretty similar, just without as much exposed skin (and I suppose without the flowers, which I'll admit I hadn't spotted before). But instead the male version is an almost completely different (although thematically related) design. And the same goes for the other outfits I listed - there are significant differences in the designs that aren't related to masculinity/femininity.Ahh I see what you mean. Yeah some of the design work is so different that it could've been a different armor set entirely.

[KeoLegend.5132]

@yann.1946 said:

@KeoLegend.5132 said:

@sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

@"AgentMoore.9453" said:

Show your work. Clearly you have access to game data to be able to proclaim those things as fact, right?

Feel however you want about gender and clothes, but don't try to speak for others and isolate people by telling them they're part of a tiny group just because you disagree with them. The OP is asking why they can't wear both versions of an outfit on both genders; the core answer is game limitations, everything else is just noise intended to divide and hurt people.

Some quick research shows that roughly 4.5% of the US population and 6% in the EU identify as LGBTQ oriented. Saying he doesn't speak for others also applies to you, and the facts are that such a small percentage of population does qualify technically as niche. Any person that is part of a group always overestimates that group's size because they surround themselves with it. But numbers don't lie. So doubling your workload to cater to 4.5% to 6% of a population is unfortunately unrealistic.

1. That quota doesn't apply to this game. Most LGBTQ ppl doesn't even play games or are huge fans of movies, thats why so many of the kitten movies are flopping
2. Even if 6% of all game population consisted of LGBTQ and even if they would demand what you're demanding that would still be a terrible decision, at least until that 6% becomes a minimum of 51% of the game total population. The worst mistake a company can make is to hear a small (and VERY LOUD) minority that wishes for changes that will annoy the majority and will make (guess what) the 94% of the players leave.

1.) I've never seen statistics that the lgbtQ community doesn't play games and watches movies. I'm very interested in those statistics.

2.) this is a giant logical fallacy. 94 percent won't leave if they cater to the 6 percent. Most won't care either way.

You're not either a cross dresser or completely against crossdressing

Even if 100% of the LGBTQFGHJ+ played games and watched movies they would still the VAST MINORITYWhen we start seeing LGBTQ-only or focused movies or games with a big success in terms of playerbase, then you can argue.

And the point of this point was completely flawed. Its not about genders, its about a feature of the game. The #1 reason that the "cross-dressing" thing can't happen in this game is simply because it would be a gigantic WASTE of RESOURCES. This is not Ragnarok Online where everybody is human and have the same models!We are talking about 5 races with 2 distinct genders, that means at least 10 different models that would need to be adapted to all outfits. Huge wasted time and money

[trixantea.1230]

Shot answer: No.Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooo because instead of wasting effort to satisfy a deviant minority, Anet should be fixing bugs, making new content or even a new expansion.

[coso.9173]

@KeoLegend.5132 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@KeoLegend.5132 said:

@sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

@"AgentMoore.9453" said:

Show your work. Clearly you have access to game data to be able to proclaim those things as fact, right?

Feel however you want about gender and clothes, but don't try to speak for others and isolate people by telling them they're part of a tiny group just because you disagree with them. The OP is asking why they can't wear both versions of an outfit on both genders; the core answer is game limitations, everything else is just noise intended to divide and hurt people.

Some quick research shows that roughly 4.5% of the US population and 6% in the EU identify as LGBTQ oriented. Saying he doesn't speak for others also applies to you, and the facts are that such a small percentage of population does qualify technically as niche. Any person that is part of a group always overestimates that group's size because they surround themselves with it. But numbers don't lie. So doubling your workload to cater to 4.5% to 6% of a population is unfortunately unrealistic.

1. That quota doesn't apply to this game. Most LGBTQ ppl doesn't even play games or are huge fans of movies, thats why so many of the kitten movies are flopping
2. Even if 6% of all game population consisted of LGBTQ and even if they would demand what you're demanding that would still be a terrible decision, at least until that 6% becomes a minimum of 51% of the game total population. The worst mistake a company can make is to hear a small (and VERY LOUD) minority that wishes for changes that will annoy the majority and will make (guess what) the 94% of the players leave.

1.) I've never seen statistics that the lgbtQ community doesn't play games and watches movies. I'm very interested in those statistics.

2.) this is a giant logical fallacy. 94 percent won't leave if they cater to the 6 percent. Most won't care either way.

You're not either a cross dresser or completely against crossdressing

Even if 100% of the LGBTQFGHJ+ played games and watched movies they would still the VAST MINORITYWhen we start seeing LGBTQ-only or focused movies or games with a big success in terms of playerbase, then you can argue.

And the point of this point was completely flawed. Its not about genders, its about a feature of the game. The #1 reason that the "cross-dressing" thing can't happen in this game is simply because it would be a gigantic WASTE of RESOURCES. This is not Ragnarok Online where everybody is human and have the same models!We are talking about 5 races with 2 distinct genders, that means at least 10 different models that would need to be adapted to all outfits. Huge wasted time and money

this could potentially mean less work for the artists and devs tough. if all future outfits are unisex, they only have to fit them for all the available bodies, but not design 2 outfits each time from 0 because they should look distinct depending on the genders. so it's less work. there's no need for outfits to look that ridiculously different unless it's something like a wedding dress/tuxedo.

[Liewec.2896]

i tried to answer this question but the soft Anet moderators don't like people stating facts.so maybe ask this question over on reddit.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

@coso.9173 said:

@KeoLegend.5132 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@KeoLegend.5132 said:

@sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

@"AgentMoore.9453" said:

Show your work. Clearly you have access to game data to be able to proclaim those things as fact, right?

Feel however you want about gender and clothes, but don't try to speak for others and isolate people by telling them they're part of a tiny group just because you disagree with them. The OP is asking why they can't wear both versions of an outfit on both genders; the core answer is game limitations, everything else is just noise intended to divide and hurt people.

Some quick research shows that roughly 4.5% of the US population and 6% in the EU identify as LGBTQ oriented. Saying he doesn't speak for others also applies to you, and the facts are that such a small percentage of population does qualify technically as niche. Any person that is part of a group always overestimates that group's size because they surround themselves with it. But numbers don't lie. So doubling your workload to cater to 4.5% to 6% of a population is unfortunately unrealistic.

1. That quota doesn't apply to this game. Most LGBTQ ppl doesn't even play games or are huge fans of movies, thats why so many of the kitten movies are flopping
2. Even if 6% of all game population consisted of LGBTQ and even if they would demand what you're demanding that would still be a terrible decision, at least until that 6% becomes a minimum of 51% of the game total population. The worst mistake a company can make is to hear a small (and VERY LOUD) minority that wishes for changes that will annoy the majority and will make (guess what) the 94% of the players leave.

1.) I've never seen statistics that the lgbtQ community doesn't play games and watches movies. I'm very interested in those statistics.

2.) this is a giant logical fallacy. 94 percent won't leave if they cater to the 6 percent. Most won't care either way.

You're not either a cross dresser or completely against crossdressing

Even if 100% of the LGBTQFGHJ+ played games and watched movies they would still the VAST MINORITYWhen we start seeing LGBTQ-only or focused movies or games with a big success in terms of playerbase, then you can argue.

And the point of this point was completely flawed. Its not about genders, its about a feature of the game. The #1 reason that the "cross-dressing" thing can't happen in this game is simply because it would be a gigantic WASTE of RESOURCES. This is not Ragnarok Online where everybody is human and have the same models!We are talking about 5 races with 2 distinct genders, that means at least 10 different models that would need to be adapted to all outfits. Huge wasted time and money

this could potentially mean less work for the artists and devs tough. if all future outfits are unisex, they only have to fit them for all the available bodies, but not design 2 outfits each time from 0 because they should look distinct depending on the genders. so it's less work. there's no need for outfits to look that ridiculously different unless it's something like a wedding dress/tuxedo.

Still sounds like catering to a minority (whether they're lgbt or not frankly isn't relevant) because a plurality if not a majority do like having some gendered outfits. Arenanet is making a roughly even mix of both gendered and non-gendered outfits, as I pointed out in my last post, and as such is appealing to the largest number of people. Several posters here have also repeatedly pointed out that due to the nature of how armors and outfits work technically, making all outfits gender neutral wouldn't actually cut the work load for the devs by a significant amount.