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New Races - Stumbling blocks and solutions


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There are many threads on here discussing the feasibility of adding a new race to GW2. Many, like me, would love to see the Tengu make an appearance. There are many stumbling blocks to adding new races but two seem pretty obvious- armour models and voice acting for previous story parts of the game. So it got me thinking... how can you overcome these two specific issues?

What if a new race was introduced in the same way that Skyscales became part of the game? Added later on in the story, Skyscales had their own quest line to acquire and flat out didn't exist before the events at Dragonfall. What if you had a quest line that your main/alt could follow that would gain the favour of the Tengu/other and enable you to play as one? Why is there a need for new races to even touch the Personal Story when you could make a new 'mini-story' that could incorporate both your main/alt and the new race and ultimately unlock the ability to play as one? Leave the base races for the starting screen... the new race(s) would be available only to those that have reached that part of the game with other characters.

The issue of armour is easy- I'd be willing to bet the majority of people interested in playing another race would be okay with a reduced wardrobe. It's not ideal but lets face it, new models for all the previous armours will never happen as there are so many. Fashion Wars is definitely a huge part of the game but what about...and I realise this is controversial... no wardrobe at all? If there was enough story/lore added to my playing experience I honestly would play a Tengu/other if all there was were outfits/skins for it. Then if GW3 ever releases (we can hope!) you've got a great platform for an added playable race at launch with all the bells and whistles afforded to the other races.

What other issues can you think of and how would you personally overcome them?

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I think that's what they'd have to do if they ever add a new race (and I hope they do one day). It would be a huge piece of work to build an entirely new level 10-80 story and it wouldn't make sense for them to be doing the normal story when, aside from a few individuals, none of the likely races were part of the Pact.

I don't think armour and weapons would be an issue for tengu because they already use the charr skeleton, so their body shape is only slightly different. The same might be true for kodan. Personally I think those two were designed with the intention that they could become playable races. They both have home territories close to existing maps with space for a city and low level maps (or level 80 maps which still serve to introduce the race and their culture) and the koda have a lot of detail on their culture for a race newly introduced in GW2 and rarely seen.

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But not being able to play the story and especially not having wardrobe access, pretty much will kill the concept stone dead. You might as well just have a tonic or outfit which transforms you. If you can't do what every other race can do or can only do with heavy/exclusive restrictions, then it will feel like a half hearted attempt that the community will pour immense scorn over

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Well, let's go through the list of things that a new race would require, and see where there's potential workarounds:

New character models (and associated customization): No real getting around that.

Making existing weapons and armor work on the new race: The difficulty there depends on how much the new race differs from the existing races. Tengu would hopefully require minimal tweaking from the Charr skeleton; Largos and Kodan would likely be based on the Human and Norn skeletons, respectively, but they have differences in their head shape that helms would need to be changed to accommodate.

New animations: Probably not for every animation, but you would expect, for instance, the Largos to have a different swimming animation from other races. Overall, shouldn't require a lot there, assuming that any new race has the same skeleton as one of the existing races.

New zones: Assuming the new race was built to be able to do the full story, including the initial race-specific parts, we would probably be looking at a new city, and one or two new low-level zones for players to go through before being funneled into existing content. Having the new race skip the personal story would be one way to avoid having to do a lot of that; having some storyline that has them living as refugees in one of the existing cities would also work, although I feel like that would rob the race of some of its character.

Voice acting: The potential big one. Getting two new voice actors to record lines for the entire story up to this point is a big project. Again, having the new race start at the current point in the story would be an easy way to avoid that, although that would also mean that a lot of the game's content is 'useless' to the new race, which might be seen as a questionable design decision. Another possibility, which I've brought up before, would be for the new race to use the same voice actors as one of the existing races, ideally applying some effects to the voice recordings to make it sound somewhat different. If they were to do that, then the vast majority of the voice acting the new race would need would already be complete. They'd still need to record new lines for the first few chapters of the personal story, some new combat barks, and things like that, but a much smaller project than recording new lines for everything.

EDIT: New quests: Oh yeah, forgot one, although one I touched on in the other points. If we were going for full parity between the new race and the old ones, then we would need new quests for the first three chapters of the personal story, as those are all race-specific in nature. And ideally, you'd need to do multiple variations depending on the choices you made in character creation. Again, if they wanted to dodge doing that, the way to do it would be to have the new race start at the current point in the story.

I think that covers everything; I missing anything else that a new race would require?

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I agree with the mini-story idea. The mini story wouldn’t be longer than the lore overview and first zone in current character creation.

Here is my idea which uses 100% human frame and armor.

Mermaid and Mermen

When under water their lower body turns into a sea creature. when on land the have legs. When underwater the stats of the leg and boot armor are still in place. It is just a cosmetic change.

There could be different looks such as shark, octopus, seahorse, fish. Their face, skin and lower body would be different base on the aquatic animal selected at character creation.

The mini-story after character creation would end with them As refugees and swimming up to Lion’s Arch. (Maybe washing ashore after a terrible event.) I would give them a small village in Sanctum Harbor.

No new armor. Of course the long buttcape armors may not look the greatest cuz you want to see your fish tail. But there are many choices around that.

The only new zone would be an underwater home city maybe next to a current starter zone.

But if ever we get a deep sea dragon expansion and increased underwater combat then perhaps we find their original home land (home waters?)

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I don't care if people say that it's doable or not, WoW (GW2's greatest opponent since 12+ years) already have 23 playable races and keep adding new races at a steady pace… while we're still stuck with our 5 basic races since 7+ years. Anet had tons of opportunities to add new races, and many different ways to get these in in an economical way by copying what other games did. WoW's races are actually variations around the same theme, using new skins on older races' bones and introducing these in the current story (skipping the oldest stories, leveling maps and beginner quests' voice actings).... nothing very complex or expensive.

Like in WoW, every races are already present in-game... so, some animations, voices, emotes, skins, cultural clothings (etc) already exist in-game. Tengus, grawls and probably skritts already using Charrs bones (a Charr armour could potentially perfectly fit on a tengu, mergoyle, skale or skritt without having to modify it much)... to get branded and undead, they'd just have to add already existing skin filter/alphas to already playable races etc. We don't ask to play as unicorns or jackrabbits, so there's surely a way to do something. There's already enough classes... please add new races!!!

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I do understand that having no access to the personal story and to past wardrobe items would be a massive negative. But I think Anet could do something different than just adding new regular classes and it would still be enjoyable and bring something to the GW2 experience.

I personally feel that you can mitigate the loss of the personal story by having a mini personal story for the new race to compensate. Get to know the origins, how they came to this part of the world, how your main/alt character earns the trust of the new race and how they fit into the story of Tyria going forward. New lore, a new home map and new achievements/collections to earn race specific rewards like outfits and armour plus of course weapon skins which can be used on any character.

One thing to note though is I think this should be for specific, already semi-established GW2 races only. I wouldn't personally want to see something like the WoW way of doing things. Hylek, Tengu and Largos for the time being.

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@"Thereon.3495" said:I do understand that having no access to the personal story and to past wardrobe items would be a massive negative. But I think Anet could do something different than just adding new regular classes and it would still be enjoyable and bring something to the GW2 experience.

I personally feel that you can mitigate the loss of the personal story by having a mini personal story for the new race to compensate. Get to know the origins, how they came to this part of the world, how your main/alt character earns the trust of the new race and how they fit into the story of Tyria going forward. New lore, a new home map and new achievements/collections to earn race specific rewards like outfits and armour plus of course weapon skins which can be used on any character.

One thing to note though is I think this should be for specific, already semi-established GW2 races only. I wouldn't personally want to see something like the WoW way of doing things. Hylek, Tengu and Largos for the time being.

Maaaaaybe having a "mini PS" as you put it would work, but I don't think the wardrobe is negotiable, all armors and outfits would have to be included or it'd just end up a massive flustercluck.

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@"namor.2840" said:I don't care if people say that it's doable or not,Your first eleven words pretty much invalidates the rest of your argument.

WoW (GW2's greatest opponent since 12+ years) already have 23 playable races and keep adding new races at a steady pace… while we're still stuck with our 5 basic races since 7+ years. Anet had tons of opportunities to add new races, and many different ways to get these in in an economical way by copying what other games did. WoW's races are actually variations around the same theme, using new skins on older races' bones and introducing these in the current story (skipping the oldest stories, leveling maps and beginner quests' voice actings).... nothing very complex or expensive.And you know it's not very complex or expensive... how?

Like in WoW, every races are already present in-game... so, some animations, voices, emotes, skins, cultural clothings (etc) already exist in-game. Tengus, grawls and probably skritts already using Charrs bones (a Charr armour could potentially perfectly fit on a tengu, mergoyle, skale or skritt without having to modify it much)... to get branded and undead, they'd just have to add already existing skin filter/alphas to already playable races etc. We don't ask to play as unicorns or jackrabbits, so there's surely a way to do something. There's already enough classes... please add new races!!!

Still, as many have pointed out in more threads that I'm willing to count, one cannot compare GW2 to WoW. The business models are too different. Of course Wow can do the things you list because they are a subscription based MMO and have way more resources to put into them than GW2.

Also, I am not a game programmer (and I suspect that you aren't either?) so I don't know how easy or hard it would be to implement new races in GW2. Only those working on the actual game code can know for certain. They are also the ones who would know if the armor skins "could potentially perfectly fit" on another race skeleton "without having to modify it much".

You shouldn't just assume it's so easy because another game company has done it.

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  • 2 months later...

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@"SoulGuardian.6203" said:I want Vampires.

They're not intelligent enough to be playable. They don't wear clothes !

That does solve the problems of having to voice them and the need to adjust armour to fit them...

Kasmeer: Commander, Joko has attacked Almoon!Commander: GrawarrrKasmeer: Yes Commander, I'll meet you there.

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The game has been avoiding the Dominion of Winds for some time. It's supposed to be completely controlled by the Tengu. That's basically racial starter zone or future enemy level of conflict story wise. It's one of those unexplored zones that is perfectly positioned to release new characters into the current leveling zones. It's probably the only race that's been caught in limbo as a neutral faction. ArenaNet totally wants them to be a playable race. That has got to be a hard area to touch.

They should go for the Tengu race. There aren't many features I can think of that can sell an expansion other than the story and the elite specializations. Even if they do come out with a good mastery goal for Cantha, there's probably going to be another expansion needed after that. There are four houses of Tengu. That's mastery material right there. Have the player character become a diplomat. Once the player has appeased all four houses, give them a final mastery line for unlocking the race.

Even if it's a lot of work, they need some material to work with when it comes to future expansions selling. They should probably bite the bullet so that they can finally open up these locked zones that have been teased since the launch of the game.

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@"Yggranya.5201" said:The only one i want is a machine "race". I think i have ever playd 2 games where you could play as a machine and yes, they had the problem of humanizing them, as always. I know why they do it but would be nice if someone would do something original for a change.

Asura in golem body like Blish race ? :D

@Pifil.5193 said:

@"SoulGuardian.6203" said:I want Vampires.

They're not intelligent enough to be playable. They don't wear clothes !

That does solve the problems of having to voice them and the need to adjust armour to fit them...

Kasmeer: Commander, Joko has attacked Almoon!Commander: GrawarrrKasmeer: Yes Commander, I'll meet you there.

I laughed !

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The ability to add new races and allow character race changes was already common in other MMOs when GW2 came out. As such, GW2 should have included those things from the start. Instead, for whatever reason, Anet built character and story architectures which are so closed and awkwardly intertwined, that adding those things now is somewhere between impractical and impossible. As has been explained many times by both devs and posters here alike, so give it a rest already.

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@"Thereon.3495" said:There are many threads on here discussing the feasibility of adding a new race to GW2. Many, like me, would love to see the Tengu make an appearance. There are many stumbling blocks to adding new races but two seem pretty obvious- armour models and voice acting for previous story parts of the game. So it got me thinking... how can you overcome these two specific issues?

What if a new race was introduced in the same way that Skyscales became part of the game? Added later on in the story, Skyscales had their own quest line to acquire and flat out didn't exist before the events at Dragonfall. What if you had a quest line that your main/alt could follow that would gain the favour of the Tengu/other and enable you to play as one? Why is there a need for new races to even touch the Personal Story when you could make a new 'mini-story' that could incorporate both your main/alt and the new race and ultimately unlock the ability to play as one? Leave the base races for the starting screen... the new race(s) would be available only to those that have reached that part of the game with other characters.

The issue of armour is easy- I'd be willing to bet the majority of people interested in playing another race would be okay with a reduced wardrobe. It's not ideal but lets face it, new models for all the previous armours will never happen as there are so many. Fashion Wars is definitely a huge part of the game but what about...and I realise this is controversial... no wardrobe at all? If there was enough story/lore added to my playing experience I honestly would play a Tengu/other if all there was were outfits/skins for it. Then if GW3 ever releases (we can hope!) you've got a great platform for an added playable race at launch with all the bells and whistles afforded to the other races.

What other issues can you think of and how would you personally overcome them?While I am not opposed in principle to the idea of a new race...GW2 Efficiency shows that nearly half the active playtime for people is spent on Human characters (44%) with the remaining 4 races constituting the rest.(https://gw2efficiency.com/account/player-statistics), The developers are actually on record as saying they were somewhat disappointed by the level of use of the other four races compared to human.How does one justify the cost of adding this kind of thing to the game when historical statistics show less than 15% of active play time will be spent on them? Wouldn't resources be better spent on something that benefits a larger section of the active users' play time?

The historic argument against raids or development of WvW has been the small cross section of the audience that this appeals to.Why is playable Tengu different?

Don't get me wrong... I absolutely love my Asura toons, I think the Charr are fantastic. I'm a dedicated altoholic and have at least two toons of every race, I would love to see something different, but if the choices are:

  1. Throwing a ton of resources at a feature that won't see active use
  2. Introducing half baked options like WoW's racial variants or FF14's gender locked races
  3. No new racesI will take 3.
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@Kulvar.1239 said:

@"Yggranya.5201" said:The only one i want is a machine "race". I think i have ever playd 2 games where you could play as a machine and yes, they had the problem of humanizing them, as always. I know why they do it but would be nice if someone would do something original for a change.

Asura in golem body like Blish race ? :D

@"SoulGuardian.6203" said:I want Vampires.

They're not intelligent enough to be playable. They don't wear clothes !

That does solve the problems of having to voice them and the need to adjust armour to fit them...

Kasmeer: Commander, Joko has attacked Almoon!Commander: GrawarrrKasmeer: Yes Commander, I'll meet you there.

I laughed !

That would be more like a cyborg Asura than an actual machine but i guess i will take what i can get.

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@"kharmin.7683" said:Also, I am not a game programmer (and I suspect that you aren't either?) so I don't know how easy or hard it would be to implement new races in GW2. Only those working on the actual game code can know for certain. They are also the ones who would know if the armor skins "could potentially perfectly fit" on another race skeleton "without having to modify it much".

We can actually be fairly certain that nothing will be a perfect fit by taking a look at human, norn and sylvari armor or just human and norn. Human and norn are already very similar(and probably more similar than any other combination of new plus existing race) but they are still not perfect fit

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@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:The only one i want is a machine "race". I think i have ever playd 2 games where you could play as a machine and yes, they had the problem of humanizing them, as always. I know why they do it but would be nice if someone would do something original for a change.

Asura in golem body like Blish race ? :D

@"SoulGuardian.6203" said:I want Vampires.

They're not intelligent enough to be playable. They don't wear clothes !

That does solve the problems of having to voice them and the need to adjust armour to fit them...

Kasmeer: Commander, Joko has attacked Almoon!Commander: GrawarrrKasmeer: Yes Commander, I'll meet you there.

I laughed !

That would be more like a cyborg Asura than an actual machine but i guess i will take what i can get.

A golem with a nicer shape than the big chunk ones you see in Rata Sum ?

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