Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Why the demand for *more* e-specs?


Recommended Posts

Because I really really really hate scourge and the fact that we "sacrifice our shroud" for condi dirt because we "rejected palawa joko's power." Idk about you but a tar-based shroud would have been way cooler than...whatever dirt mage over there is. Point is I want a better elite than that trash.

Because I want ritualist and I refuse to believe that Revenant is anything of a ritualist at all because let me tell you, I hate it. I made a revenant for the achievements and the cat, and then deleted that thing. Ritualist was my favorite class in Gw1 and I'd be shedding tears of joy to see it back.

Because I want more weapons available for my necro. Longbow or hammer would be pretty interesting.

I love the learning process of a new elite. It feels so fresh, like stepping into the game for the first time again, except I know what cc is.

If not new elites, then I would be okay with entirely new classes as well. I have been playing HoT specs since they came out because everything in PoF was just so...blegh for me. It would just be nice to just have something new to play with.

New elite specs gets people talking and I love build crafting with friends and rivals. I'll never forget the 30 minute dual I had with a druid buddy until he accidentally flipped out of the arena.

New content is new content.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 88
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@Obtena.7952 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Elite specs represent a fundamental difference in the way as class is played. To say that the only difference is the weapon is myopic. They are the single biggest thing that gives this game replay value to me.

New weapon implies new skills, though...

Which is supports his point even MORE. ... and making alts doesn't do anything for you because alts aren't new ways to play a class. It's just more of the same class.

So you believe that especs are different from each other more than classes are different from other classes... I disagree.

I think you misunderstand ... even if you roll alts in other classes, that doesn't extinguish people's desire to play a specific class in a different way. That's the appeal of especs. If picking a class was a meaningless choice, then you would have something there.

They can still play a specific class in a different way, that’s just one way to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mortifera.6138 said:Aside from balancing issues, it just seems like everyone wants to be able to play with every weapon without playing with every weapon. This just leads to homogenization of classes, and you just have to look at WoW to see why you wouldn’t want that. Pretty much everyone will be able to do everything, and that kills class identity. Oh, but you want “just one more”? Sure, I believe you.

So shamans in WoW can wield swords now? The problem with WoW was pure and utter ability bloat and no separation of that. When you have to have four 10 key ability bars on your ui to be able to actually utilize your class on top of, boss mods, gtfo, recount, healium or whatever was the preferred healing addon at the time, and still be expected to be able to play with half of your screen being taken over. No the bloat was atrocious. Here, you have a lot of skills yes, but you cannot use them all. You are forced to select which skills will work and cannot switch them while in combat. My engineer cannot use the flamethrower if she has her grenades selected, etc.

Then you have ESO. You can wield anything and wear anything regardless of class. Sorc tanks were big when I started playing. Yet they don't have a problem with homogenization that WoW does, each class has it's strengths and weaknesses. Why? My explanation is simply they don't have people playing every class on team. There was a reason it was called World of Roguecraft or World of Magecraft. There is a reason they still don't have vaild aggro dump on shamans after 15+ YEARS. They simply don't know what they want to do nor how to balance anything anymore. Part of it is also there is no separation between pve/pvp so they sit there trying to balance skills around both forms of play which gets tedious, which means that they'd rather have each class be closer to the same for their sanity then trying to do two separate skill sets where tanks can still tank in pve but be able to be taken down in pvp. I remember a long stint of only being able to tank for family/friends because they nerfed guardian druids to the point pugs would not take them because they were 'too squishy'. And it was all because they were unstoppable in pvp. GW2 recognized this and tweaked it that some skills/traits will be different between the two game modes.

Overall, I think it's more that people want access to weapons than anything else. Rangers cannot access rifles nor pistols. Longbows are only accessible to 3, 3 professions. Guardian Dragonhunter, Warriors and Rangers. A guardian can wield a sword in their main hand but not their offhand. Some of it makes sense, some of it does not. Either way, the reason most ask for elite specs, at least why I ask, is because I'd love to be a mace wielding engineer and probably the only time I'll ever see it will be as an elite spec.

As for killing class identity.....no, it won't happen because engineers will still have their turrets, rangers will still have their pets, etc. Honestly the most homogenized thing, and most frustrating, is the STORY. Where is my warband? Why have me choose between them only for them to be completely ignored after level 30? Why have me choose between the Priory, Whispers and Vigil when they are ignored after Orr? Why did I not get unique dialogue from Almorra through her interactions when she knows my ranger? The things that set your character apart from others on what you did do not matter at all and it's maddening. Sylvari still don't know what's up with Malyck. If there is any homogenization going on in the game, it's us being the Commander, not the professions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mortifera.6138 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Elite specs represent a fundamental difference in the way as class is played. To say that the only difference is the weapon is myopic. They are the single biggest thing that gives this game replay value to me.

New weapon implies new skills, though...

Which is supports his point even MORE. ... and making alts doesn't do anything for you because alts aren't new ways to play a class. It's just more of the same class.

So you believe that especs are different from each other more than classes are different from other classes... I disagree.

I think you misunderstand ... even if you roll alts in other classes, that doesn't extinguish people's desire to play a specific class in a different way. That's the appeal of especs. If picking a class was a meaningless choice, then you would have something there.

They can still play a specific class in a different way, that’s just one way to.

That depends on the mode. META in competitive play forces one's hand to play specific classes/builds. Open world, not so much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While new specs pose balance issues they can also fix balance issues as well.

In a way I'd kind of like to see the specs eventually start to balance each other out with some specs being more capable of dealing with others.Gw2 has no holy trinity like most MMO's nor does it really have a element system like the original game giving certain things strengths and weaknesses aginst elemental matchups etcWith the addition of more elite specs we could eventually see something akin to this typical RPG trait come into existence, granted skill will always be a huge part of it but some specs having some advantage over others while also having weaknesses against different others wouldn't neccessarily be a bad thing for the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mortifera.6138 said:Aside from balancing issues, it just seems like everyone wants to be able to play with every weapon without playing with every weapon. This just leads to homogenization of classes, and you just have to look at WoW to see why you wouldn’t want that. Pretty much everyone will be able to do everything, and that kills class identity. Oh, but you want “just one more”? Sure, I believe you.

This game was always about getting rid of that kind of class identity.From the get go everyone has had support to run every kind of build, though of course some were better at things then others.Even If we had solid class identity the game isnt hard enough for that to matter.(with a few exceptions.)

This is of course talking about PvE, PvP and WvW are another story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally want some more variety.After almost 3 years, I'm starting to get bored, even though I love my Symboltrapper.

I also want a viable ranged Elementalist that benefits from camping Fire Attunement.A new Elite spec is the only chance for this to happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Dark Red Killian.3946 said:Plus a scrapper can’t use a sword, while a holosmith can’t use a hammer, so a build technically can’t use any weapon it wants. Same with a third elite spec. It won’t be able to use a hammer and sword, but it will use its new weapon.

A thief can't use a staff either, oh, wait...

A Thief can't use a staff. A Daredevil can, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because I have 19 characters, several of every class, at least one of every subclass, all fully Exotic/Ascended geared, and many with both PvE and WvW builds, and there's not much left to do but to get new Elite Specialisations to shake it up.

And believe it or not, I'm a mild case, some people have 60-70 characters, some have a dozen builds per character, etc.

The thing to understand is that because GW2 is so casual friendly, and alt-friendly, this is the perfect way to play it. To experience the same content again and again but shifted through the lense of a new playing style, it changes everything (especially in PvP/WvW).

But instead we keep getting content that is single-minded and needs to be grinded out forever, sigh.

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Personally I find a lack of options to do some things with a profession and the new e-spec should fill this hole.For example, the ranger does not have a spot in organized WvW squads.Something like a Ranger with a Rifle whose attacks are zerg-busting AoEs like that one boss from Cadacus's Manor?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mortifera.6138 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Elite specs represent a fundamental difference in the way as class is played. To say that the only difference is the weapon is myopic. They are the single biggest thing that gives this game replay value to me.

New weapon implies new skills, though...

Which is supports his point even MORE. ... and making alts doesn't do anything for you because alts aren't new ways to play a class. It's just more of the same class.

So you believe that especs are different from each other more than classes are different from other classes... I disagree.Oh, i'd love a new class, but unfortunately new especs are far more likely, so i will have to do with what can be available.Unless you meant an already existing class, in which case no, an already existing class won't be different from what i have already played - i have played all the classes and all the especs already, in many wildly different builds, so unless it's something really new, it won't have that feeling of novelty.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mortifera.6138 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Elite specs represent a fundamental difference in the way as class is played. To say that the only difference is the weapon is myopic. They are the single biggest thing that gives this game replay value to me.

New weapon implies new skills, though...

Which is supports his point even MORE. ... and making alts doesn't do anything for you because alts aren't new ways to play a class. It's just more of the same class.

So you believe that especs are different from each other more than classes are different from other classes... I disagree.

I think you misunderstand ... even if you roll alts in other classes, that doesn't extinguish people's desire to play a specific class in a different way. That's the appeal of especs. If picking a class was a meaningless choice, then you would have something there.

They can still play a specific class in a different way, that’s just one way to.

OK ... but the question is why people like especs. The answer is really simple: because it's new. If you are going to try to make some argument that people that want more especs are wrong because of whatever reason ... then just make that argument. Don't disagree with everyone that the reasons they want especs aren't valid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@Dark Red Killian.3946 said:Plus a scrapper can’t use a sword, while a holosmith can’t use a hammer, so a build technically can’t use any weapon it wants. Same with a third elite spec. It won’t be able to use a hammer and sword, but it will use its new weapon.

A thief can't use a staff either, oh, wait...

A Thief can't use a staff. A Daredevil can, though.

So Daredevil isn't an Elite Spec for a Thief? I'm going to have double check mine, because I was sure that it was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Elite Specializations are the most fun, enduring positive feature to come out of both expansions. They are inherently fun and interesting and one of the biggest boosters in terms of replay value providing new and interesting ways to play all the classes.

Other games add new classes or races. Guild Wars 2 adds elite specs. You think the lethal stagnation that would have happened if games like League of Legends NEVER added new champions after the original set, or Magic the Gathering never adding a single new card after the original set would have been healthier for those games than whatever balance concerns happened as they expanded the games' playable options?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Dark Red Killian.3946 said:Plus a scrapper can’t use a sword, while a holosmith can’t use a hammer, so a build technically can’t use any weapon it wants. Same with a third elite spec. It won’t be able to use a hammer and sword, but it will use its new weapon.

A thief can't use a staff either, oh, wait...

A Thief can't use a staff. A Daredevil can, though.

So Daredevil isn't an Elite Spec for a Thief? I'm going to have double check mine, because I was sure that it was.

A Thief can't use staff, rifle, or 'insert weapon here.' A Daredevil can use staff, but not rifle or 'insert weapon here.' A Deadeye can use rifle, but not staff or 'insert weapon here.' A 'insert e-spec here' can use 'insert weapon here,' but not staff or rifle...The OP asked why people were excited for new e-specs. The above is an example of one of the reasons: E-specs offer ways to play a particular class, different (hopefully) from the base class or other e-specs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Dark Red Killian.3946 said:Plus a scrapper can’t use a sword, while a holosmith can’t use a hammer, so a build technically can’t use any weapon it wants. Same with a third elite spec. It won’t be able to use a hammer and sword, but it will use its new weapon.

A thief can't use a staff either, oh, wait...

A Thief can't use a staff. A Daredevil can, though.

So Daredevil isn't an Elite Spec for a Thief? I'm going to have double check mine, because I was sure that it was.

This is just word nitpicking though.Because choosing the Daredevil traitline, it technically is a Dardevil instead of Thief in both profession symbol and profession name.Some people only consider core to be Thief, thus Daredevil and cheese rifle no longer are Thieves to them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What if they removed the armor class restrictions and reworked Defense rating to not only give reduction of incoming damage but at the trade off of other stats?

Imagine guardians and warriors in light armor, mesmers, necros and eles in medium or heavy armor; thieves in light armor, engis in heavy armor, etc.

Probably more balancing nightmare but would open up fashion wars even more as a bonus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Personally I find a lack of options to do some things with a profession and the new e-spec should fill this hole.For example, the ranger does not have a spot in organized WvW squads.

I don't understand this idea. Do people only play one class or something?

Also, it wouldn't need an elite spec to have a spot in squads : soulbeast stance share with greatsword and dagger+axe or sword+axe works but just isn't optimal. That's especially true after moa stance nerfs and the uptime on dolyak stance.

Your average ranger runs signet of stone / selfish utilities and traits with longbow way off tag while not pushing with the group. They'll be shooting into reflect bubbles and electrowhirl so actually do damage to their team instead of the enemy ; unless traited longbow hits only one target except with barrage. If it's an organized suad that uses stealth gyro, a non-soulbeast ranger isn't able to merge to avoid the pet running everywhere giving up the squad location so stealth pushes also get ruined oftentimes. Being able to run and hide ("last to die") is useless unless you can portal people (thief/mesmer). So unless ranger players stop doing that it's partly a player issue.

If you look at other classes:your average guardian is going to be on tag and just putting Stand Your Ground on skillbar makes it useful : the only fail guardian is one who doesn't run Stand Your Ground and plays longbow DH camping longbow at max range

your average non-gimmick warrior (i.e. not gunflame) is in melee with GS/axe/dagger etc , any spellbreaker worth their salt rips boons

your average revenant is going to have facets (herald) or party alacrity (renegade) ; 10 man permafury on herald is always useful for power classes and mallyx variants have boon rip + resistance for the party

your average engineer not running a gimmicky core build is either scrapper or holo ; if they're scrapper they can run purge gyro + stealth gyro while providing decent DPS via explosives traitline and holo can run fumigate on elixir gun (or some variant of prot holo) , Elixir U (superspeed + stunbreak), Elixir S (5 man stealth for gank team), or bunker down (nerfed from 2s ICD but ~500 heal every 4s) if they're not roaming

--> revised mine kit also happens to AoE rip boons

your average daredevil with a staff can do large AoE damage with staff while any decent thief runs signet of agility so they might actually cleanse conditions off others ; many thieves run trickery with the traits that steal boons and gives them to allies (Thrill of the Crime + Bountiful Theft). If they manage to escape inside a tiered keep they can swap utilities and shadow portal people in.

your average staff tenpest or weaver either drops AoE or aura shares for heals and cleanses/heals on water attunement

your average necro is >100% more useful: boonrip/barrier + corrupts from scourge / large power damage and boon rip from reapers

lot of poor mesmers now (esp. 1 dodge condi mirage memes) but if chronos wanted to they can run gravity well (chrono feels terrible in competitive though); any mesmer can run null field (boon rip + condi clear) , inspiration traitline (condi clear for allies on shatter) , mantra of concentration (stability) , mantra of resolve (condi clear) , and post patch there's the boon rip on disable trait--> veil and portal aren't as common place anymore (the veil portion is replaced largely by stealth gyro on scrapper)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...