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Buffing/Re-working Staff


Swagg.9236

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In regards to PvP/WvW i think staff ele SHOULD be very useful, but from my point of view its very meh. You got lots of AoE but they all take took long to hit/pop. Auto attacks are very inefficient cuz they are all so slow to cast and the projectile takes ages to hit the target.Another thing that i just can NOT understand are some of weaver skills that are just pure Garbage - yes, MONSOON, im look at you! Most of them I never use.If they could just buff staff dps in PvP only, since its only nerfed it cuz of PvE.

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@dtox.8397 said:In regards to PvP/WvW i think staff ele SHOULD be very useful, but from my point of view its very meh. You got lots of AoE but they all take took long to hit/pop. Auto attacks are very inefficient cuz they are all so slow to cast and the projectile takes ages to hit the target.

Despite however sub-par one might consider the staff ele's attack repertoire to be, it's fair. The problem is that to be fair is to be sub-par in GW2. With that said, the goal here with buffing staff ele wouldn't be to make all of its attacks unfair and easy mode, but rather to compliment them with the appropriate utility in order to make the fair damage a little more functional in an environment of faceroll builds. Layered AoE damage can still be a huge threat, especially when combined with ward lines like Static Field and Unsteady Ground.

Another thing that i just can NOT understand are some of weaver skills that are just pure Garbage - yes, MONSOON, im look at you! Most of them I never use.They just buff staff dps in PvP only, if they only nerf it cuz of PvE.

Yes, the problem with Weaver is the same problem with Tempest: they are both just boring DPS increases rather than a true gameplay mechanic. The only difference between them is in how Weaver's DPS boost is slapped onto the weapon bar's 3 slot while Tempest's buttons are baked into the attunements. I detest them both on a fundamental level since what they effectively do could have been accomplished by just doing something like re-working some of the trashy bloat in this game (imagine if ele signets--WHICH NOBODY USES ANYMORE--were just changed into tempest overloads; mission accomplished; Tempest is a worthless concept).

On that note, though, the benefit to buffing staff ele with a PvP-centric focus would be that the staff could receive all of the PvP-support that it needs in order to be more viable, and then the numbers could just be adjusted up later on (if need be) in order to make up for any lacking DPS in PvE.

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@Swagg.9236 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:Mostly just transitioning from clunky to smoother mechanics for some skills while adding some anti-meta utility for PvP. Elementalist staff is one of the most balanced weapon sets in the entire game, and I don't really want to mess with that. That said, the nerf to Lava Font and Meteor Shower was utter trash, and it's worth reverting it to some degree.

FIRE

!
[Lava Font] (2)
!* Damage increased by approximately 33% (modifier increase from 0.525 to 0.7).

!
Stop pretending that the zerk meta is or has ever been bad for the game. Your “pls buy our expac” specs will survive. A 33% increase per tick to this skill's current damage level would still only set it to roughly 12.5% below what it was prior to its initial damage nerf.

!
[Flame Burst] (3)
!Activation: ½s / Recharge: 10s!Burn foes at the target location. After a delay, the target location explodes, damaging foes. This explosion deals bonus damage to foes per stack of burning on them.!
Number of targets: 5!
Burning|2| (6s): [damage]!
Delay: 1s!
Explosion damage: (1.0)!
Bonus explosion damage per burning stack: 10%!
Maximum bonus damage: 250%!
Radius: 180!
Range: 1200

!
This skill is now a ground-targeted ability.

!
[burning Retreat] (4)
!Recharge: 5s!Quickly roll backward, leaving behind a line of fire that burns foes.!
Damage: (0.7)!
Burning (3s): [damage]!
Interval: 1s!
Duration: 2s!
Evade: 1s!
Maximum Count: 2!
Count Recharge: 30s!
Combo Field: Fire

!
Huge buff to the fire line damage (would be on par with the buffed [Lava Font]) which is off-set by a lower duration. The ammo feature adds further flexibility to its PvP usage (not just as increased mobility, but also as a field hazard) and turns it into a strong PvE DPS staple.

!
[Meteor Shower] (5)

!* Minimum damage modifier value per meteor shower strike increased from (0.32) to (0.55).

WATER

!
[Water Blast] (1)
!Activation: 1s!Strike with a cone of water that heals allies and damages foes. Heal more and deal more damage the closer you are to targets.!
Number of allies: 5!
Number of targets: 5!
Maximum damage: (0.5)!
Minimum damage: (0.2)!
Maximum healing: 372 (0.2)!
Minimum healing: 89 (0.2)!* Range: 600

!
Uses the same dynamic scaling mechanic as Engineer [blunderbuss]'s cone attack. Should be re-worked to respect line of sight as does the current [blunderbuss.]

!
[Frozen Ground] (4)
!Recharge: 10s!Foes at the target area initially lose defensive boons. Target area inflicts chill and damages downed foes at every interval.!
Number of targets: 5!
Initial Boons Removed: [stability], [Resistance]!
Chilled (2s): -66% Skill Recharge Rate, -66% Movement Speed!
Downed Health Damage: 7%!
Interval: 1s!
Duration: 3s!
Radius: 240!
Combo Field: Ice!
Maximum Count: 2!
Count Recharge: 60s!
Range: 1200!
Unblockable

!
The “Downed Health” damage is equivalent to 7% of a respective downed player's total HP, and it is applied simultaneously with the chill effect.

AIR

!
[Gust] (3)
!Activation: 1s / Recharge: 20s!Release a piercing air burst that knocks foes backward. If you fully channel this skill and release it, you instead whirl forward, knocking back foes along your path.!
Number of targets: 5!
Air burst knockback: 400!
Air burst range: 1200!
Pierces!
Number of Whirl Impacts: 8!
Whirl knockback: 400!
Whirl radius: 130!
Whirl evade: ½s!
Whirl range: 900!
Combo Finisher: Whirl

!
This skill's minimal channel time will be ¼s (same as its current cast-time). If a player were to simply press and release the skill button immediately, this skill would execute immediately after reaching the minimal channel time threshold, resulting in the current iteration of the skill. The listed “activation time” in the tool-tip denotes the “full channel” which is required for the player to perform the whirl attack. The channel can be maintained at full charge, allowing a player to charge up the whirl, hold down the button and then deploy it later upon releasing the button.
!
The whirl attack's movement behavior and travel distance are respectively identical to the Fiery Greatsword skill [Fiery Whirl].

!
[Windborne Speed] (4)

!
Activation reduced from ¼s to 0 (instant). Can now be used in midair or while CC'ed.!
Now also grants superspeed (3s) to affected allies.

EARTH

!
[stoning] (1)
!Activation: 1s!Launch a stone which shatters upon impact while striking foes in melee with your staff. If you strike a weakened foe with your staff, you and nearby allies gain Stone Striker.!
Number of targets per attack: 3!
Stone damage: (0.5)!
Stone range: 1200!
Stone damage radius: 120!
Staff strike damage: (0.75)!
Staff strike range: 150!
Stone Striker (10s): +150 Power!
Stone Striker radius: 300!* Number of Allies: 5

!
The "Number of targets per attack" tool tip applies to both the stone projectile and the melee attack respectively. This skill could potentially hit up to 6 unique targets, or strike twice upon 3 targets respectively, depending on the player's positioning and selected target.
!
Stone Striker is a unique buff which does not stack. Any new instance of Stone Striker applied to a target already under its effects will simply overwrite the old instance (thus refreshing the duration in the process).

!
[Eruption] (2)

!
Cast-time reduced from 1¼s to ¾s.!
Recharge reduced from 6s to 1s.!
Now has an ammo count of 2. Count recharge set to 10s.!
Radius reduced from 300 to 240.!
Crippled duration reduced from 3s to 2s.!
Bleeding duration reduced from 12s to 10s.

!
[Transmute Earth] (3b)
!Activation: ½s / Recharge: 10s!Detonate your magnetic aura and knock back adjacent foes. Grant barrier to adjacent allies.!
Number of targets: 5!
Knockback: 400!
Unblockable!
Number of allies: 5!
Barrier: 2487 (0.125)!
Radius: 180

!
[unsteady Ground] (4)

!* Recharge reduced from 30s to 25s.

!
[shockwave] (5)
!Activation: ¾s / Recharge: 25s! Slam the ground and create a cascading shockwave. All impacts immobilize foes. The middle impact also inflicts weakness and removes defensive boons from foes. The closest impact inflicts all prior effects and also blinds and dazes foes.!
Number of targets: 5!
Number of impacts: 3!
Impact damage: (0.5)!
Immobilize (1½s): Unable to move.!
Weakness (4s): Endurance regeneration decreased by 50%; 50% of hits are Glancing Blows (50% damage)!
Boons Removed: [stability]; [Resistance]!
Blindness (5s): Next outgoing attack misses.!
Dazed: 1s!* Range: 1200

!
Hitbox, attack animation and skill usage now equivalent to Revenant [Coalesence of Ruin]. Use the Elementalist [Ring of Earth] model asset for each impact animation.

I doubt that what they maybe do is increase the pulses on Lava Font about 2 this would already make me happy in PvE.Because this would increase Weavers DPS from 30 to 34k

Yeah, but that's utterly boring. One of the jokes about Elementalist back in 2012-13 was how it was the meta DPS (alongside Guardian autos+scepter 2) by just spamming Fireball and Lava Font (which was true). Also, making Lava Font last longer would just make it a nuisance in any sort of PvP scenario. At least, by adjusting a few numbers and then re-working some skills, you get a universal kit which has a unique style which is somewhat challenging to use, viable in its baseline damage and functionally purposeful in PvE and PvP respectively. Raw numbers are fine for PvE's games of Simon Says, but for places like sPvP and WvW, one needs to be more conscious of skill and player interactions when it comes to combat design. I know that there's loads of bloat in GW2, but it's still better to come at GW2 weapon design from a `holistic perspective of "make this into a purposeful, universal tool" rather than simply "make this do 30k DPS."

I also had the idea of a water rota which use the water trait line but doesn't work and I don't want to repeat everything .

I'd rather not rely on traits to buff any damage mainly because the way that anet does traits just results in passive increases or passive triggers, changing nothing inherent about the gameplay. By at least designing the weapon around being versatile and threatening in PvP situations, the damage and effects can be later adjusted for PvE, and we end up with a strong option for the class at large.

Problem is that the Ele Staff and Core Ele got nerfed again and again because of outcries from all direction and then got balanced mainly around Weaver so that Staff Tempest became a joke and staff core ele absolute unusable.

Yeah, and the nerf that they came up with was basically to "address" the issue that Elementalist basically carried all of its damage in 3 skills. We could restore that by just reintroducing the damage in a way so that it is spread out among already-existing skills while also just adding some extra utility to the weapon. If we had buffs to things like Fire Blast, Burning Retreat, and the earth line, staff ele gameplay would still revolve around layering delayed or pulsing damage, and it would finally exceed "meta" PvE damage thresholds while also incentivizing the use of more skills.

Lava Font has a extreme small radius I don't know how this can be a nuisance in PvP. Meteorshower I understand to some degree Meteorshower when casted down but also not 100% because Necro can cast something similar in an instead only with a bit less dmg and radius.

About addressing the dmg well not really or better said which rota you mean I only know the one from HoT the standard is simlear to weavers only shorter. The fresh-air meta was so idiotic simple to such degree I couldn't understand it just spawn air overload. I also said the dmg must be distributed over many skills at best but Tempest is just weaker then Weaver but you have to taker the different built that exist into account to that you don't over do it

  • You can buff:
  • The 1 on air
  • The 2 on fire, air
  • The 5 on air ( giving the static field pulsing dmg and cc after it ended)
  • Fire overload on Tempest

-You can't buff :-(much) Air Overload because of the old fresh-air built of just spamming just it and because the c/h Tempest built use it too . you would also buff this built when you buff it at best 5-10% more.-Metorshower just because of the oucry but personally I want the old back

-You can buff maybe:

  • the 2 and 5 on earth because it would just increase Weaver no other built but for this you must increase the dmg on air skills a lot higher
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@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:Mostly just transitioning from clunky to smoother mechanics for some skills while adding some anti-meta utility for PvP. Elementalist staff is one of the most balanced weapon sets in the entire game, and I don't really want to mess with that. That said, the nerf to Lava Font and Meteor Shower was utter trash, and it's worth reverting it to some degree.

FIRE

!
[Lava Font] (2)
!* Damage increased by approximately 33% (modifier increase from 0.525 to 0.7).

!
Stop pretending that the zerk meta is or has ever been bad for the game. Your “pls buy our expac” specs will survive. A 33% increase per tick to this skill's current damage level would still only set it to roughly 12.5% below what it was prior to its initial damage nerf.

!
[Flame Burst] (3)
!Activation: ½s / Recharge: 10s!Burn foes at the target location. After a delay, the target location explodes, damaging foes. This explosion deals bonus damage to foes per stack of burning on them.!
Number of targets: 5!
Burning|2| (6s): [damage]!
Delay: 1s!
Explosion damage: (1.0)!
Bonus explosion damage per burning stack: 10%!
Maximum bonus damage: 250%!
Radius: 180!
Range: 1200

!
This skill is now a ground-targeted ability.

!
[burning Retreat] (4)
!Recharge: 5s!Quickly roll backward, leaving behind a line of fire that burns foes.!
Damage: (0.7)!
Burning (3s): [damage]!
Interval: 1s!
Duration: 2s!
Evade: 1s!
Maximum Count: 2!
Count Recharge: 30s!
Combo Field: Fire

!
Huge buff to the fire line damage (would be on par with the buffed [Lava Font]) which is off-set by a lower duration. The ammo feature adds further flexibility to its PvP usage (not just as increased mobility, but also as a field hazard) and turns it into a strong PvE DPS staple.

!
[Meteor Shower] (5)

!* Minimum damage modifier value per meteor shower strike increased from (0.32) to (0.55).

WATER

!
[Water Blast] (1)
!Activation: 1s!Strike with a cone of water that heals allies and damages foes. Heal more and deal more damage the closer you are to targets.!
Number of allies: 5!
Number of targets: 5!
Maximum damage: (0.5)!
Minimum damage: (0.2)!
Maximum healing: 372 (0.2)!
Minimum healing: 89 (0.2)!* Range: 600

!
Uses the same dynamic scaling mechanic as Engineer [blunderbuss]'s cone attack. Should be re-worked to respect line of sight as does the current [blunderbuss.]

!
[Frozen Ground] (4)
!Recharge: 10s!Foes at the target area initially lose defensive boons. Target area inflicts chill and damages downed foes at every interval.!
Number of targets: 5!
Initial Boons Removed: [stability], [Resistance]!
Chilled (2s): -66% Skill Recharge Rate, -66% Movement Speed!
Downed Health Damage: 7%!
Interval: 1s!
Duration: 3s!
Radius: 240!
Combo Field: Ice!
Maximum Count: 2!
Count Recharge: 60s!
Range: 1200!
Unblockable

!
The “Downed Health” damage is equivalent to 7% of a respective downed player's total HP, and it is applied simultaneously with the chill effect.

AIR

!
[Gust] (3)
!Activation: 1s / Recharge: 20s!Release a piercing air burst that knocks foes backward. If you fully channel this skill and release it, you instead whirl forward, knocking back foes along your path.!
Number of targets: 5!
Air burst knockback: 400!
Air burst range: 1200!
Pierces!
Number of Whirl Impacts: 8!
Whirl knockback: 400!
Whirl radius: 130!
Whirl evade: ½s!
Whirl range: 900!
Combo Finisher: Whirl

!
This skill's minimal channel time will be ¼s (same as its current cast-time). If a player were to simply press and release the skill button immediately, this skill would execute immediately after reaching the minimal channel time threshold, resulting in the current iteration of the skill. The listed “activation time” in the tool-tip denotes the “full channel” which is required for the player to perform the whirl attack. The channel can be maintained at full charge, allowing a player to charge up the whirl, hold down the button and then deploy it later upon releasing the button.
!
The whirl attack's movement behavior and travel distance are respectively identical to the Fiery Greatsword skill [Fiery Whirl].

!
[Windborne Speed] (4)

!
Activation reduced from ¼s to 0 (instant). Can now be used in midair or while CC'ed.!
Now also grants superspeed (3s) to affected allies.

EARTH

!
[stoning] (1)
!Activation: 1s!Launch a stone which shatters upon impact while striking foes in melee with your staff. If you strike a weakened foe with your staff, you and nearby allies gain Stone Striker.!
Number of targets per attack: 3!
Stone damage: (0.5)!
Stone range: 1200!
Stone damage radius: 120!
Staff strike damage: (0.75)!
Staff strike range: 150!
Stone Striker (10s): +150 Power!
Stone Striker radius: 300!* Number of Allies: 5

!
The "Number of targets per attack" tool tip applies to both the stone projectile and the melee attack respectively. This skill could potentially hit up to 6 unique targets, or strike twice upon 3 targets respectively, depending on the player's positioning and selected target.
!
Stone Striker is a unique buff which does not stack. Any new instance of Stone Striker applied to a target already under its effects will simply overwrite the old instance (thus refreshing the duration in the process).

!
[Eruption] (2)

!
Cast-time reduced from 1¼s to ¾s.!
Recharge reduced from 6s to 1s.!
Now has an ammo count of 2. Count recharge set to 10s.!
Radius reduced from 300 to 240.!
Crippled duration reduced from 3s to 2s.!
Bleeding duration reduced from 12s to 10s.

!
[Transmute Earth] (3b)
!Activation: ½s / Recharge: 10s!Detonate your magnetic aura and knock back adjacent foes. Grant barrier to adjacent allies.!
Number of targets: 5!
Knockback: 400!
Unblockable!
Number of allies: 5!
Barrier: 2487 (0.125)!
Radius: 180

!
[unsteady Ground] (4)

!* Recharge reduced from 30s to 25s.

!
[shockwave] (5)
!Activation: ¾s / Recharge: 25s! Slam the ground and create a cascading shockwave. All impacts immobilize foes. The middle impact also inflicts weakness and removes defensive boons from foes. The closest impact inflicts all prior effects and also blinds and dazes foes.!
Number of targets: 5!
Number of impacts: 3!
Impact damage: (0.5)!
Immobilize (1½s): Unable to move.!
Weakness (4s): Endurance regeneration decreased by 50%; 50% of hits are Glancing Blows (50% damage)!
Boons Removed: [stability]; [Resistance]!
Blindness (5s): Next outgoing attack misses.!
Dazed: 1s!* Range: 1200

!
Hitbox, attack animation and skill usage now equivalent to Revenant [Coalesence of Ruin]. Use the Elementalist [Ring of Earth] model asset for each impact animation.

I doubt that what they maybe do is increase the pulses on Lava Font about 2 this would already make me happy in PvE.Because this would increase Weavers DPS from 30 to 34k

Yeah, but that's utterly boring. One of the jokes about Elementalist back in 2012-13 was how it was the meta DPS (alongside Guardian autos+scepter 2) by just spamming Fireball and Lava Font (which was true). Also, making Lava Font last longer would just make it a nuisance in any sort of PvP scenario. At least, by adjusting a few numbers and then re-working some skills, you get a universal kit which has a unique style which is somewhat challenging to use, viable in its baseline damage and functionally purposeful in PvE and PvP respectively. Raw numbers are fine for PvE's games of Simon Says, but for places like sPvP and WvW, one needs to be more conscious of skill and player interactions when it comes to combat design. I know that there's loads of bloat in GW2, but it's still better to come at GW2 weapon design from a `holistic perspective of "make this into a purposeful, universal tool" rather than simply "make this do 30k DPS."

I also had the idea of a water rota which use the water trait line but doesn't work and I don't want to repeat everything .

I'd rather not rely on traits to buff any damage mainly because the way that anet does traits just results in passive increases or passive triggers, changing nothing inherent about the gameplay. By at least designing the weapon around being versatile and threatening in PvP situations, the damage and effects can be later adjusted for PvE, and we end up with a strong option for the class at large.

Problem is that the Ele Staff and Core Ele got nerfed again and again because of outcries from all direction and then got balanced mainly around Weaver so that Staff Tempest became a joke and staff core ele absolute unusable.

Yeah, and the nerf that they came up with was basically to "address" the issue that Elementalist basically carried all of its damage in 3 skills. We could restore that by just reintroducing the damage in a way so that it is spread out among already-existing skills while also just adding some extra utility to the weapon. If we had buffs to things like Fire Blast, Burning Retreat, and the earth line, staff ele gameplay would still revolve around layering delayed or pulsing damage, and it would finally exceed "meta" PvE damage thresholds while also incentivizing the use of more skills.

Lava Font has a extreme small radius I don't know how this can be a nuisance in PvP.

A ticking, 180 radius AoE that potentially lasts for 6s (permanent field presence if used in conjunction with Persisting Flames), is definitely a hazard in sPvP at the very least. It's also extremely easy to hit anyone with it even without necessarily resorting to hard CC; 180 radius is pretty forgiving, and it's often easy to get people to walk into at least a few ticks by using yourself as bait.

About addressing the dmg well not really or better said which rota you mean I only know the one from HoT the standard is simlear to weavers only shorter. The fresh-air meta was so idiotic simple to such degree I couldn't understand it just spawn air overload. I also said the dmg must be distributed over many skills at best but Tempest is just weaker then Weaver but you have to taker the different built that exist into account to that you don't over do it
  • You can buff:
  • The 1 on air
  • The 2 on fire, air
  • The 5 on air ( giving the static field pulsing dmg and cc after it ended)
  • Fire overload on Tempest

-You can't buff :-(much) Air Overload because of the old fresh-air built of just spamming just it and because the c/h Tempest built use it too . you would also buff this built when you buff it at best 5-10% more.-Metorshower just because of the oucry but personally I want the old back

-You can buff maybe:
  • the 2 and 5 on earth because it would just increase Weaver no other built but for this you must increase the dmg on air skills a lot higher

No, see, the point of my suggestions is to make the weapon more viable and interesting in PvP in a way which would carry over a higher baseline DPS into PvE. The main core goals were more movement options and more area control--those are very flexible and engaging gameplay elements which possess a skill ceiling because of how they can be used poorly or optimally. Moreover, the benefit of designing a weapon set's strengths around PvP, is that in order to "make up" for any lackluster showing in PvE, all one would need to do would be to raise some numbers up. If all you do is just raise some numbers without doing anything else, you aren't changing anything about the weapon's potential for playstyle options, and ultimately, you're just going to feed into the same frustrating DPS paradigm of "the same skills but this time with bigger numbers." Design like that invalidates other playstyle choices without any justification (kind of like what it was like in 2012-13 when basically nobody was allowed into Arah unless they were a Banner Warrior, scepter/sword Guardian or staff Ele). At least if you make a weapon with lots of variable combat options, people feel more comfortable with adopting it since it has more than a singular, shallow role which is forced upon them (in this case, it's being the generic DPS).

Don't think about the numbers first, think about the weapon's potential function; then think about the numbers. That's what I'm doing. And if you don't see that initially, then look at how I buffed Lava Font and then basically gave staff fire a second Lava Font in a buffed Burning Retreat (and that's not even addressing some of the other buffs and options). An entire second Lava Font on the staff fire bar (even if it has a much longer cooldown) is probably worth your precious 2k DPS).

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  • 4 weeks later...

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:I like these changes. Very cool formatting btw.

Hey, thanks!

@Henrik.7560 said:Yes let's go anet, staff ele has been garbage for over a year now, it was the most enjoyable ele build to play not this sword trash, buff staff kthx

I'd say it's still the most enjoyable ele build! It's just a shame that PvE is naturally a huge bloat fest littered with weapons which don't deal optimal DPS while PvP is saturated with twitchy, instantaneous burst covered by damage and CC immunities.

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@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:whoa stoning got way too complicated lol. I like the weakness spam, I just wish it had a small aoe on it... would arguably make it op.

I never liked the idea of baseline "lol spam for this effect" on autos, and an un-ending fountain of weakness is generally way too un-fun to play against, so I wanted to just outright change it into something more interesting and valuable for a team. It's not really that complicated: a simultaneous ranged and melee attack (facilitates damage options at any range but rewards risky positioning and target focus with high DPS); strike a target with weakness for an AoE damage buff application. The former just makes it a more flexible attack in any situation while the latter makes it part of a valuable rotation in PvE.

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@Swagg.9236 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:whoa stoning got way too complicated lol. I like the weakness spam, I just wish it had a small aoe on it... would arguably make it op.

I never liked the idea of baseline "lol spam for this effect" on autos, and an un-ending fountain of weakness is generally way too un-fun to play against, so I wanted to just outright change it into something more interesting and valuable for a team. It's not really that complicated: a simultaneous ranged and melee attack (facilitates damage options at any range but rewards risky positioning and target focus with high DPS); strike a target with weakness for an AoE damage buff application. The former just makes it a more flexible attack in any situation while the latter makes it part of a valuable rotation in PvE.

If they ever did put it in it'd need a cool melee staff animation, Rafiki style.

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@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:whoa stoning got way too complicated lol. I like the weakness spam, I just wish it had a small aoe on it... would arguably make it op.

I never liked the idea of baseline "lol spam for this effect" on autos, and an un-ending fountain of weakness is generally way too un-fun to play against, so I wanted to just outright change it into something more interesting and valuable for a team. It's not really that complicated: a simultaneous ranged and melee attack (facilitates damage options at any range but rewards risky positioning and target focus with high DPS); strike a target with weakness for an AoE damage buff application. The former just makes it a more flexible attack in any situation while the latter makes it part of a valuable rotation in PvE.

If they ever did put it in it'd need a cool melee staff animation, Rafiki style.

Somehow I've never forgotten the animation that players used when attacking with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Experimental_Staff. You get it from a heart in Timberline Falls. Not really sure what it looks like on all races, but I remember thinking it was pretty sick on charr and asura. It's been forever since I've been back there, though. Ought to go on a norn or something just to see.

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Meteor shower and lava font need to get fixed, in pve at least, staff deserves to be highest dps because it's so fragile and slow and relies on stationary enemies. The nerfs to conjures, glyph and meteor shower all follow the same pattern and are terrible when other classes with aoe skills that do MORE damage don't get punished. And pls stop buffing dh

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@Henrik.7560 said:Meteor shower and lava font need to get fixed, in pve at least,I'd argue that it wouldn't hurt at all to buff them equally in PvP and PvE mainly because Lava Font never strikes a non-downed target more than maybe 2 or 3 times. Considering how easy it is to pressure a staff ele, getting one to stop spamming Lava Font on a PvP point would be as simple as a Thief/Revenant/Guardian/Ranger/Mesmer (basically any class) just faceroll with the ele as the selected target. On top of this, it's not like Meteor Shower is a constant threat in PvP since it has an actual cast-time for its pay-off (basically just Lava Font's situation but even worse for the staff ele).

staff deserves to be highest dps because it's so fragile and slow and relies on stationary enemies.The main issue is that Weaver is just a duplicate DPS spec for a class that was already meta DPS. Therefore, the only way that you're going to make the new DPS better than the old DPS is to have the new one just make bigger numbers thus completely invalidating the old spec. It's brainless and wasteful design. Regardless of what timing or positioning limitations staff ele has to its general playstyle, it deals DPS, therefore, you don't need another DPS build for that class.

@Henrik.7560 said:The nerfs to conjures, glyph and meteor shower all follow the same pattern and are terrible when other classes with aoe skills that do MORE damage don't get punished.

It really just goes to show how shallow GW2 can be, though, when you notice how easily one class can become King DPS above all others. While I agree with criticisms surrounding the blatant nerfings of skills like glyph and frost bow, it's still pretty pathetic to know that Ele's SINGLE BUILD SET was staff, AoE, AoE, AoE, AoE (particularly in how clunky and mostly wasted some of the conjured weapon designs are). I'm not saying that this is a problem with staff, or that something needs to even replace staff for Elementalist, but seriously, it's pretty upsetting to just have so many options to go waste or artificially compete with other classes entirely for slots in a "worthwhile" party. I'd really rather just see half of each class' utility pool outright deleted in most cases just to stop people from crying for random buffs to things that already exist on other classes.

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@Swagg.9236 said:

@Henrik.7560 said:Meteor shower and lava font need to get fixed, in pve at least,I'd argue that it wouldn't hurt at all to buff them equally in PvP and PvE mainly because Lava Font never strikes a non-downed target more than maybe 2 or 3 times. Considering how easy it is to pressure a staff ele, getting one to stop spamming Lava Font on a PvP point would be as simple as a Thief/Revenant/Guardian/Ranger/Mesmer (basically any class) just faceroll with the ele as the selected target. On top of this, it's not like Meteor Shower is a constant threat in PvP since it has an actual cast-time for its pay-off (basically just Lava Font's situation but even worse for the staff ele).

staff deserves to be highest dps because it's so fragile and slow and relies on stationary enemies.The main issue is that Weaver is just a duplicate DPS spec for a class that was already meta DPS. Therefore, the only way that you're going to make the new DPS better than the old DPS is to have the new one just make bigger numbers thus completely invalidating the old spec. It's brainless and wasteful design. Regardless of what timing or positioning limitations staff ele has to its general playstyle, it deals DPS, therefore, you don't need another DPS build for that class.

@Henrik.7560 said:The nerfs to conjures, glyph and meteor shower all follow the same pattern and are terrible when other classes with aoe skills that do MORE damage don't get punished.

It really just goes to show how shallow GW2 can be, though, when you notice how easily one class can become King DPS above all others. While I agree with criticisms surrounding the blatant nerfings of skills like glyph and frost bow, it's still pretty pathetic to know that Ele's SINGLE BUILD SET was staff, AoE, AoE, AoE, AoE (particularly in how clunky and mostly wasted some of the conjured weapon designs are). I'm not saying that this is a problem with staff, or that something needs to even replace staff for Elementalist, but seriously, it's pretty upsetting to just have so many options to go waste or artificially compete with other classes entirely for slots in a "worthwhile" party. I'd really rather just see half of each class' utility pool outright deleted in most cases just to stop people from crying for random buffs to things that already exist on other classes.

Staff has a unique use which is consistent aoe pressure however that's literally only useful on 2 pve raid bosses; escort and trio which are extremely easy anyway, and in very large scale wvw. But yes in any other situation it's very underwhelming, the fact conjures are garbage, with no trait synergy and skill buffs or redesigning, and the fact one useful skill on two conjures was nerfed to the ground.

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@Henrik.7560 said:

@Henrik.7560 said:Meteor shower and lava font need to get fixed, in pve at least,I'd argue that it wouldn't hurt at all to buff them equally in PvP and PvE mainly because Lava Font never strikes a non-downed target more than maybe 2 or 3 times. Considering how easy it is to pressure a staff ele, getting one to stop spamming Lava Font on a PvP point would be as simple as a Thief/Revenant/Guardian/Ranger/Mesmer (basically any class) just faceroll with the ele as the selected target. On top of this, it's not like Meteor Shower is a constant threat in PvP since it has an actual cast-time for its pay-off (basically just Lava Font's situation but even worse for the staff ele).

staff deserves to be highest dps because it's so fragile and slow and relies on stationary enemies.The main issue is that Weaver is just a duplicate DPS spec for a class that was already meta DPS. Therefore, the only way that you're going to make the new DPS better than the old DPS is to have the new one just make bigger numbers thus completely invalidating the old spec. It's brainless and wasteful design. Regardless of what timing or positioning limitations staff ele has to its general playstyle, it deals DPS, therefore, you don't need another DPS build for that class.

@Henrik.7560 said:The nerfs to conjures, glyph and meteor shower all follow the same pattern and are terrible when other classes with aoe skills that do MORE damage don't get punished.

It really just goes to show how shallow GW2 can be, though, when you notice how easily one class can become King DPS above all others. While I agree with criticisms surrounding the blatant nerfings of skills like glyph and frost bow, it's still pretty pathetic to know that Ele's SINGLE BUILD SET was staff, AoE, AoE, AoE, AoE (particularly in how clunky and mostly wasted some of the conjured weapon designs are). I'm not saying that this is a problem with staff, or that something needs to even replace staff for Elementalist, but seriously, it's pretty upsetting to just have so many options to go waste or artificially compete with other classes entirely for slots in a "worthwhile" party. I'd really rather just see half of each class' utility pool outright deleted in most cases just to stop people from crying for random buffs to things that already exist on other classes.

Staff has a unique use which is consistent aoe pressureVery true but, as someone who almost exclusively ran staff ele in PvP, I preferred to call staff ele's playstyle "area control" noting its main feature as "the ability to miss with an attack" (which generally wasn't part of any other class' repertoire). It's satisfying to strike targets with a static field or multiple lava fonts mainly because it's entirely possible to misplace one's own attacks due to bad timing or fore-thought; it's about reading a target rather than just selecting a target and pressing a button.

however that's literally only useful on 2 pve raid bosses; escort and trio which are extremely easy anyway, and in very large scale wvw. But yes in any other situation it's very underwhelming, the fact conjures are garbage, with no trait synergy and skill buffs or redesigning, and the fact one useful skill on two conjures was nerfed to the ground.And that's why I think that breaking up the potential attack options across a lot of different attacks (while simultaneously increasing damage) is a fair and playstyle-promotive solution. It basically kills two birds with one stone: staff ele gets more DPS and party support, and it keeps the fair, read-based playstyle that defines staff ele combat.
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  • 5 months later...

So at some point, I came back to make conversation here and found that some random update to this site must have broken the formatting for my entire post (and probably others but whatever).  Fixed it and also just changed a few things because I'm bored.  Staff ele is still probably one of the most fun ways to play this game (by a longshot), so I just wish it were a tiny bit more fluid and fearsome in PvP without completely wrecking what makes it somewhat skillful.

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staff very underperforming currently, wvw it kinda passes with good meteor placements but is not a meta pick like scg/rev/dh, and the damage in pve has been reduced to beyond a joke and its pretty useless for pvp too.

 

edit: just realized i replied here 2 years ago and still nothing changed lul rip staff ele.

Edited by Henrik.7560
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17 hours ago, Henrik.7560 said:

staff very underperforming currently, wvw it kinda passes with good meteor placements but is not a meta pick like scg/rev/dh, and the damage in pve has been reduced to beyond a joke and its pretty useless for pvp too.

 

edit: just realized i replied here 2 years ago and still nothing changed lul rip staff ele.

lmao, yeah RIP

 

Edit:  As a note, full-glass power staff ele is not exactly a complete loss in sPvP, but the problem is that it requires a lot more team support and coordination than any other mainstream meta build in GW2.  If anything, staff ele's extremely high damage potential and area control properties often falling short outside of certain comp set-ups just shows how shallow GW2's PvP is fundamentally:  the build, while certainly capable of yielding results on its own, sees ridiculously strong results particularly when favored by matchmaking RNG.

Edited by Swagg.9236
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It kind of amazes me that Staff has never received a rework. It's just not set up well at all and it's also pretty boring to boot. I mean look at all of those samey same #1 animations and stop to imagine how cool things like fireballs and chain lightning should actually be. 

 

Functionally, most of the problem revolves around the fact that Water and Earth have such terrible damage that they force you to continuously fallback to Fire or Air as aggressively as possible (with the only exception being if you are playing a fully spec'd healer in a larger group), and even then Air is still a bit undertuned. 

 

This in effect means that you're constantly trying to precisely dance between damage and utility and stretched too thin in the process. Thief P/P used to have this same problem but it was corrected years ago by buffing up the #1 skill Vital Shot so the set could correctly maintain a reasonable level of sustained damage pressure while trying to balance resources between spike damage and utility. More or less the same things needs to happen here and it's astonishing that it never has in 9 years.
 

Edited by Einlanzer.1627
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Cleaned up the formatting in the original post and adjusted a few numbers/effects.  Basically, there can never be enough discussion about staff ele because it's still probably the most fun this game has to offer despite being horrendously disadvantaged when fighting most of the "lol I'ma evade/gain stability/teleport/blind/passively heal" builds that dominate the metagame.  It's not like the current staff doesn't offer a lot of solid tech to control area and get hits in on targets, but it just lacks the means to maneuver and truly deny certain actions which basically all the "good" builds have.  I'm not saying that we ought to make staff ele as braindead as most classes/builds that hit plat so long as the user is breathing, but it's worth taking a look at equipping it with soft counters and surprise abilities which compliment its rather unique "role" in GW2 as a sort of "team-player/support DPS."

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  • Swagg.9236 changed the title to Buffing/Re-working Staff
On 9/9/2019 at 10:13 PM, Henrik.7560 said:

Yes let's go anet, staff ele has been garbage for over a year now, it was the most enjoyable ele build to play not this sword trash, buff staff kthx

Staff was nerfed because weaver traits made it super OP in WvW and PvE. Only way for staff to get buffs is to nerf Weaver elite by hitting traits

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2 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Staff was nerfed because weaver traits made it super OP in WvW and PvE. Only way for staff to get buffs is to nerf Weaver elite by hitting traits

Sounds good.  Especs are kind of awful for the game in general.  They entangled all these passive effects so badly that they affect how active skills are designed.  Pretty terrible.

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Just now, Swagg.9236 said:

Sounds good.  Especs are kind of awful for the game in general.  They entangled all these passive effects so badly that they affect how active skills are designed.  Pretty terrible.

Not going to happen, e-specs are one of the main features of expacs, even if Weaver gets hit like Tempest did after release of PoF, there still is Catalyst, that will break something and it will result in weapon and not e-spec nerf. It's kinda tradition of every expac to hit ele main weapons to balance elites 😄 Frostbow was first victim, then lava font, then meteor shover, then lava font again 😄

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