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Why the demand for *more* e-specs?


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@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@Dark Red Killian.3946 said:Plus a scrapper can’t use a sword, while a holosmith can’t use a hammer, so a build technically can’t use any weapon it wants. Same with a third elite spec. It won’t be able to use a hammer and sword, but it will use its new weapon.

A thief can't use a staff either, oh, wait...

A Thief can't use a staff. A Daredevil can, though.

So Daredevil isn't an Elite Spec for a Thief? I'm going to have double check mine, because I was sure that it was.

A Thief can't use staff, rifle, or 'insert weapon here.' A Daredevil can use staff, but not rifle or 'insert weapon here.' A Deadeye can use rifle, but not staff or 'insert weapon here.' A 'insert e-spec here' can use 'insert weapon here,' but not staff or rifle...The OP asked why people were excited for new e-specs. The above is an example of one of the reasons: E-specs offer ways to play a particular class, different (hopefully) from the base class or other e-specs.

...and that was my entire point. e-specs open up weapons for classes that can't generally use them. I guess I should have maybe just spelled it out, instead of going for a touch of irony, so that all the knowledgeable people on the forums would understand what I was saying?

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Reasons for more Elite Specs:

  1. I have 33 alts with 404 unspent Hero Points each. :)
  2. I main an Engineer, and the lack of weapon choice in exchange for kits that take up utility slots make Engineer configuration options way too limited. Less weapons and less utility slots, oh boy! :weary:
  3. The third time is a charm, and maybe Anet will get the e-specs right this time. j/k :p

Seriously, if I was an Anet dev, I would not advance new e-specs for the 3rd xpac... I would side with multi-classing instead. Add a 4th Trait line for all classes. Dual Class uses 2 Trait Lines from one Class and 2 Trait Lines from another. Weapons, Weapon Skills, Armor, Class Skills and Utility Skills would be split between the the two classes, and might be too complicated to make this feasible. But, pulling this off would be epic.

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@Mortifera.6138 said:Aside from balancing issues, it just seems like everyone wants to be able to play with every weapon without playing with every weapon. This just leads to homogenization of classes, and you just have to look at WoW to see why you wouldn’t want that. Pretty much everyone will be able to do everything, and that kills class identity. Oh, but you want “just one more”? Sure, I believe you.

It seems a poor analogy to me. In WoW, it is only your class that matters. In GW2, both class and weapon determine your available skills. Further, there is no relationship between the way one class uses a weapon and the next. For instance, a mesmer uses a greatsword in a very different way from a warrior. Finally, elite specs do more than just unlock a new weapon for the class. They also offer a new trait line and they alter something about the fundamentals of the class. Given that, I see quite the opposite scenario playing out. Elite specs don't homogenize classes. They simply add new ways of playing the classes we have.

You ask why I want more elite specs? Why wouldn't I? I love a lot of the elite specs! I am currently having an absolute blast with weaver. I played tempest and core before, but sword weaver is a lot more fun for me! Do I want to see more really cool class designs that take something I already love and make it even better? You bet I do!

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@lare.5129 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Actually most people want new elite specs, probably 99,9% :)this is fake vision, that you can read by some active members. Also I am not sure who pay for that active posting, may be some another businesses.Also after reading that fake post you can take this part, and think that this is and you opinion. But this is not true.

I am old gw2 member, and I sm cleary understant that for most players who play any new spec is useless. But you will not see to much posts "ou, he say true !! elite spec is fail" .. no because all this people play, but not do posting here.

Despite your assertion that "for most players who play any new spec is useless", I see elite specs constantly. Weavers, Deadeyes, Dragonhunters, everything. The last two expacs gave us lots of new ways to play that I see people running all the time, there's zero reason to believe that new elite specs wouldn't be used and lauded as well.

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@"LightningWolfTigerBear.6725" said:Despite your assertion that "for most players who play any new spec is useless", I see elite specs constantly. Weavers, Deadeyes, Dragonhunters, everything. The last two expats gave us lots of new ways to play that I see people running all the time, there's zero reason to believe that new elite specs wouldn't be used and lauded as well.

This is not depend from some elite spec, this is depend from current rebalance.What the point now from dudu and crhrono in fractals ? how much people use use ? 0.00xx ??The any coming patch wiht rebalance can get a more and more than some useless specs.

Don't see in normal party Deadeye. This is instant kick.

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as for me any balance give or steal a more, or same as any exp pack

examplesredesigned thief traps to current state bring more that any other exp.warrior banners additional mechanic was killed without any expmesmer chrno redisign was done without any magic exp packon some past time holo dps nerf was kill holo as class, no matter exist it or not .. now it up again, relax

and etc

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Beyond having more variety (effectively another 9 classes to play, provided the changes are drastic enough) it also means you're hopefully playing against 9 more classes in pvp/wvw.

It's probably the most practical way to invigorate pvp and wvw short of introducing new game modes for them. Very good deal from a dev time vs playtime pov.

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More choice is fun. Balancing is addressed by faster patching, not restricting number of skills. Wow developers went down the road of limiting number of skills and it ruined the diversity of the game and it didn't address balancing issues (in part due to the power curve going up every 5 minutes)

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Variety is the key word. When done properly elite specs can offer new ways to play your character, allowing the "bring the player, not the character" idea to come to life. Once all professions have enough elite specs to be viable on all roles (or most) we'll no longer be restricted to certain professions to fulfill a role anymore.

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I think they want "new content" because they are bored with the existing one. You can do this until the deves are out of ideas/options (balancing will get harder and harder if you still want the older elite specs to be viable and not everyone only playing the new ones) ... then you'll reach the point where the game has to be "finished" (new new gameplay additions). Then only adding story and keeping it alive with festivals ... at some point maybe only automated festivals and the so called "maintenance mode".

I don't think this is a bad thing. But long term playability should still be possible. For PvP this is possible since the other players always could behave differently - leading to interesting matches. (Though different game modes would be nice and maps with more important side mechanics being more prominent - for more strategical/tactical play.)

WvW ... I don't know. (It is boring to me atm but haven't really tried it yet for years. Seems the same though.)

PvE is the biggest problem. Money comes from PvE players. And they are the typical MMO players that always want new content ... rushing to it to only keep asking for new stuff. I don't know ... I mean we could get a lot of harder stuff. They plan to make a hub for strike missions to make them an important thing. But open world content mostly is boring. Aside from Triple Trouble I haven't seen many hard stuff (and that one gets done easily as well if you are lucky with a good commander.)

(I have played only up until HoT so far. And the HoT maps had meta events where coordinated groups where needed ... always seemd to be finished easily though in TD map for example. I don't know about later content after that yet.)

I don't know how to create interesting content that could be replayed forever ... in PvE. People would just adapt to the scripted bosses and find the most efficient way to make it a boring grind to kill them if you have done them a few times and learned the mechanics. (PvP has the competition and other players that can keep it interesing already regardless of how the gameplay is.)

Edit: Personally for me I don't care. When I started to play HoT I tried the Scrapper (my main is engineer) and quickly unlocked it but I still play core engineer a lot (in PvE and for single target bosses for the rifle to stay ranged ... also gives skill 4 CC bar damage). I was mainly interested in story and map completion of the new maps. Not like the elite spec itself got me interested. If there were only new maps I'd be happy. If there were no new maps/story and only new elite specs I'd try them and maybe play a bit more and then being back to play the same amount of time as before. (Once I'm finished with all PvE stuff this will be mainly PvP which I could play regardless of new elite specs.)

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@Sarrs.4831 said:It's probably the most practical way to invigorate pvp and wvw short of introducing new game modes for them. Very good deal from a dev time vs playtime pov.yesterday I sow queue on each server except egde of mist. Also I am sure if on edge of mist pips will come the queue added on them too.Legendary wvw ring, only announce, without any requirement grow it so much. Any class modification don't have any tie with pvpwvw population. It can only decease it, if some class will be very very op.

@AzureTerra.1642 said:More options are always good (till you get too many but we are nowhere close enough to worry about that)reread examples. New spec don't give any option. Absolutely. No, this can gie yo option if you go wiht guild members chill Ascalon dungion run. In concurrent/meta part the new spec without include in meta is zero.

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@"LightningWolfTigerBear.6725" said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Actually most people want new elite specs, probably 99,9% :)this is fake vision, that you can read by some active members. Also I am not sure who pay for that active posting, may be some another businesses.Also after reading that fake post you can take this part, and think that this is and you opinion. But this is not true.

I am old gw2 member, and I sm cleary understant that for most players who play any new spec is useless. But you will not see to much posts "ou, he say true !! elite spec is fail" .. no because all this people play, but not do posting here.

Despite your assertion that "for most players who play any new spec is useless", I see elite specs constantly. Weavers, Deadeyes, Dragonhunters, everything. The last two expacs gave us lots of new ways to play that I see people running all the time, there's zero reason to believe that new elite specs wouldn't be used and lauded as well.

Ofc people play them. I assume he is just trolling me :)It's okay - everyone has an opinion. I respect his, I just don't agree with him. And I am not responding anymore, because it is useless.

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@Random Wax Orc.7695 said:

Seriously, if I was an Anet dev, I would not advance new e-specs for the 3rd xpac... I would side with multi-classing instead. Add a 4th Trait line for all classes. Dual Class uses 2 Trait Lines from one Class and 2 Trait Lines from another. Weapons, Weapon Skills, Armor, Class Skills and Utility Skills would be split between the the two classes, and might be too complicated to make this feasible. But, pulling this off would be epic.Epic, perhaps, but a balancing nightmare for certain!

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@AzureTerra.1642 said:More options are always good (till you get too many but we are nowhere close enough to worry about that)reread examples. New spec don't give any option. Absolutely. No, this can gie yo option if you go wiht guild members chill Ascalon dungion run. In concurrent/meta part the new spec without include in meta is zero.

If your going to blinker yourself by only playing what the feta meta is maybe.

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@"Swing.6439" said:

  1. Because I really really really hate scourge and the fact that we "sacrifice our shroud" for condi dirt because we "rejected palawa joko's power." Idk about you but a tar-based shroud would have been way cooler than...whatever dirt mage over there is. Point is I want a better elite than that trash.
  2. Because I want ritualist and I refuse to believe that Revenant is anything of a ritualist at all because let me tell you, I hate it. I made a revenant for the achievements and the cat, and then deleted that thing. Ritualist was my favorite class in Gw1 and I'd be shedding tears of joy to see it back.
  3. Because I want more weapons available for my necro. Longbow or hammer would be pretty interesting.
  4. I love the learning process of a new elite. It feels so fresh, like stepping into the game for the first time again, except I know what cc is.
  5. If not new elites, then I would be okay with entirely new classes as well. I have been playing HoT specs since they came out because everything in PoF was just so...blegh for me. It would just be nice to just have something new to play with.
  6. New elite specs gets people talking and I love build crafting with friends and rivals. I'll never forget the 30 minute dual I had with a druid buddy until he accidentally flipped out of the arena.
  7. New content is new content.

As a Guild wars 1 necromancer veteran, I Loathe the shroud mechanic. It is such a departure from what the necromancer was and if necromancer never gets another shroud it'll be too soon. Scourge is much more fun to me. And that's okay if you don't like it. It wasn't made for you. But I feel it might just be a theming issue and not a mechanics issue with what you're describing about it.

Still, more elite specs gives us more opportunities. I want more elite specs as well. And as for ritualist, I'd ge okay with necromancer getting it but I'd much prefer it to become it's own class entirely.

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