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Thematic Opportunities for the Third Wave of Elite Specializations


Eddy.7051

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What I predict:

WarriorRole: controlling supportWeapon: Staff, melee AoE control Theme: focus, battle trance martial arts

GuardianRole: (competitive focussed) DPSWeapon: mace and sword offhand or daggersTheme: purging, punishment, anti condition, dervish style cleansing mechanics

RevenantRole: enhancing core legendsWeapon: GreatswordTheme: Razzah, avatar of the mists, enhancing core legend roles

EngineerRole: Support and condition DPSWeapon: difficult to tell. Could be: daggers, staff, torch or sceptersTheme: alchemy, chemical science, amalgams

RangerRole: Tank, defensive support, barrier application, AoE control, area denialWeapon: Maces, Hammer, Shield or sceptersTheme: Warden, more plant/ earth based magic, maybe totems or transforming your pet into a totem for casting.

ThiefRole: control, condition DPS, maybe supportWeapon: sword offhandTheme: Assasination, damage mitigation, assassin

NecromancerRole: Healer, boon supportWeapon: swordTheme: blood or spirit magic, ritualist, hemomancer

MesmerRole: Healer, boon support, controlWeapon: shortbow or daggersTheme: performance, dance or music, inspiration, bard/minstrel

ElementalistRole: single target ranged DPSWeapon: pistolTheme: magitech, arcane, gadgets, spellslinger

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@"Brad.9730" said:[...]Elementalist

  • Tempest: Auras, Conjuring Storms
  • Weaver: Glyphs/Attunement Augmentations
  • Missing Theme: Arcane
    • Potential theme may focus on Arcane Magic[...]

I wish tempest was the aura spec, and they would finally put the aura-share trait in there and put the heal on aura trait on water. This would open up a lot of opportunities for all ele specs. But anyway...

I see more as:Elementalis

  • Tempest: Stay longer in attunements, longer attunement CD in exchange to large and long-lasting AoE effects. AoE effects in general (shouts/overloads/WH fields)
  • Weaver: Shoter attunements, fast swapping and dual wielding attunements. Focus on fast moving through attunements to keep bonuses and using extra skills (dual skills). Skirmishing focus with evasions and barrier.
  • Missing themes: No attunements, 5th Attunement.
    • Potential theme: 5th attunement as arcane, spellslinger with dual pistols.
    • Potential theme: No attunement, weapon-swap instead of 20 attunement skills. You still have attunements, but they dont have unique skills, instead become just bonuses and give skills special effects. Elemental martial artists with special weapon imbues and longbow with elemental imbued arrows.

I've made a post with the longbow/weapon swap idea a while back here.

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Mesmer Role: Buffer and InvocatorWeapon: Warhorn or torch mainhand.

A mesmer with enchantments that buff ( no boon based) his capabilities and their allies too , debuffs, hexes and a new type of invocations affecting the area around the mesmer that let him to perform disruptive attacks.

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@"zaswer.5246" said:Staff is a suport weapon , cc heal and a dmg acording to its utility

I don't want to keep hijacking the thread, but I think you're completely missing the point on this one:

Staff is more support/defence-oriented than sword/sword, to be sure, but its offensive output is not actually that much below sword in damage output. If you're playing a power build, you can switch to staff to get a defensive boost or to use Surge of the Mists for a CC (and, in PvE, a damage spike) and not lose too much on your DPS output. If you're playing a condi build, though, staff has literally zero ability to dish out damaging conditions - it doesn't even have a skill that applies chill to trigger Abyssal Chill - so you're hitting like a wet noodle until you can swap back.

Meanwhile, in competitive modes, you end up pretty much forced to bring staff on condi builds anyway, because unlike raids, in competitive modes you need some form of either disengaging or surviving when the enemy focuses on you. If you look at metabattle, every revenant build for competitive modes uses staff because you need the defence, apart from condi heralds who use some combination of mace, axe, MH sword, and shield (yes, shield - for all it gets maligned, it becomes a less bad option to get some defence in). For a power revenant, this isn't a problem, because power coefficients on staff are still pretty good. For condi revenants... they're forced to take it to have some survivability, but it's a bad weapon.

I get the feeling that your viewpoint is based entirely around raids, but I'm looking across the entire game, including competitive modes, and overall, power revenant has a lot more reasonable choices, and a lot less cases of having to take less-bad options, than condi rev. You're putting down Jalis as "low damage" (compared to Shiro), but I was running Jalis/Glint fairly successfully last season, and the hammers certainly do contribute to damage (and in PvP, are a lower energy drain than Impossible Odds) while also significantly adding to durability. Maybe the optimised power rev setup for maximum damage in raid conditions does less damage than the optimised condi rev setup for maximum damage in raid conditions, but power rev, broadly speaking, has more opportunity to adapt.

Now, this isn't necessarily a call for the next rev elite spec to be condi-based. That's what they tried with Renegade, and honestly, it's a bandaid solution. Revenant needs a second condition-based, or at least power/condi hybrid, weapon in its core set, or the problem is just going to keep coming up again.

But neither do I think that the next legend should be based around maximising power DPS in raid conditions as you seem to think. Raids aren't the entire game.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

Engineer
Role: Support and condition DPSWeapon: difficult to tell. Could be: daggers, staff, torch or sceptersTheme: alchemy, chemical science, amalgams

I think axe and mace are also possible weapons for such an elite spec.

Yeah that's true.But engi got 2 melee weapons already for e-specs.I took those weapons because they can be a bit more caster ranged weapons.Maybe shortbow could also work nicely.

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Engi have a low pool of weapon, so even if my esthetic would be ranged staff as Druid style.

For gameplay would be better a MH weapon to give us as many combinations as possible because we only have one MH (Pistol) but we have 2 OH (Pistol and Shield), so another main hand could give us 4 potential sets while working handed weapon would give us only 3 combinations.

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@"Brad.9730" said:Ranger

  • Druid: Plants/Nature Magic, Astral Power, Melandru
  • Soulbeast: Beastmastery/Pets, Wilderness Survival, Spirits
  • Missing Themes: Skirmishing, Marksmanship, Traps
    • Potential theme may focus on Weapon/Tool Resourcefulness

I 100% agree with your ideas for ranger, funny thing yesterday I wrote something kinda similar cause I also think that traps need to be introduced and also I think LB and SB should have new skills thats only available through this e-spec.

I understand that a lot of people dream about hammer ranger but that will only benefit the WvW zergs players, PvE/PvP players will stick with soulbeast if next gen e-spec focus on hammer and melee range AoE weapon damage.

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  • 5 weeks later...

For Mesmer, I'd like to see the devs look into the theme of Lyssa's duality. It's the only god who is represented by two separate beings, so they could do something with that. Maybe have 2 open slots for illusions, and the third slot taken by a permanent illusion, and shatter skills happen around it? Or maybe leave all 3 illusion slots, but just add a permanent clone as part of the theme of the duality of lyssa.

Just a couple thoughts.

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@Ara the Elegant.6825 said:For Mesmer, I'd like to see the devs look into the theme of Lyssa's duality. It's the only god who is represented by two separate beings, so they could do something with that. Maybe have 2 open slots for illusions, and the third slot taken by a permanent illusion, and shatter skills happen around it? Or maybe leave all 3 illusion slots, but just add a permanent clone as part of the theme of the duality of lyssa.

Just a couple thoughts.

Your idea combined with my speculation of music/art/glamour result in The Duet.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Here's some of my ideas.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1236276#Comment_1236276

Warrior-1) Berserker with a Torch, Rage skills and Berserker mode which gives new Berserker Bursts abilities.2) Spell Breaker with dual Daggers, Meditations, and Full Counters mechanic that absorbs and counter attacks surrounding foes.3) Warlord with Melee Staff, hired Recruits, and Marks to aid allies on the battlefield.4) Champion with a main hand Shield, Punishment abilities that weakens or leaves foes vulnerable, and Protection mechanic, gives a barrier and tethers to allies, to absorb damage.*5) Ravager with dual Pistols, Traps, and Ravage Burst mechanic which provides more of an area effect damage.

Guardian-1) Dragonhunter with Long Bows, Traps, and the ability turn their Virtues into Physical Constructs.2) Firebrands with a main hand Axe, Mantras, and changes their Virtues in to Tomes of several spells.3) Archon with an off hand Sword, glyphs, and the ability to attune to a Virtue at a time.4) Summoner with a War Horn, Summon mythical creatures for aid, and convert Virtues into Virtuous Pets*5) Mystic with main hand Focus, Arcane Spells, and Virtuous Burst abilities.

Revenant-1) Hearld with a Shield, conjuring Dragon abilities, and able to tap into the Dragon Legend to buff them and their allies.2) Renegade with Short Bow, able to summon spiritual combatants, and harness a Legendary Warrior's ability to command ancient forces and charging your allies for battle.3) Overlord with dual Scepters, able to summon minions from the mist, and Over Charge their connection to their attune legend.4) Mist Walker with dual Pistols, the ability to use the mist offensive and defensively, and Merge Legend abilities.*5) Rift Slayer with a Great Sword, and able to cast dimensional spells, and the timely ability to open or close a dimensional gate.

Ranger1) Druid with a Staff, glyphs, and the ability to turn into a Celestial Avatar2) Soulbeast with a main hand Dagger, combat stances, and the ability to take in the spirit of their pet granting them animalistic abilities.3) Shaman with a off hand Focus, summoning Totems that buff them and their allies, and having the ability to merge into their pet, having all of their pets' abilities.4) Warden with an off hand Shield, summoning herds and commanding nature to do their bidding, along with controlling 2 pets at the same time.*5) Wanderer with a Hammer, having shouts to stifle their foes, and can summon random pets for a brief moment of time.

Engineer1) Scrapper with a Hammer, having mechanical Gyros that place wells at their destruction, and a personal gyro that revive an ally or finish a foe.2) Holosmith with a main hand Sword, the ability to conjure hard light, and the ability to Exceed their normal light abilities before they overheat.3) Machinist- with a main hand Mace, they can create gear for them and their allies, and their new mechanic allows them to use their gears to assemble into a Battle Mech.4) Technomancer with a Great Sword, and Physical Cybrotronics abilities, and Mana that alters their Cybrotronics.*5) Med Tech with an off hand Focus, Preparation skills, along with Biomatrix mechanic for buffing them and their allies.

Thief1) Daredevil with a Melee Staff, Physical Skills for attacking foes, and offensive and defensive Dodge abilities.2) Deadeye with a Rifle, cantrips for manipulating foes, and a Deadeye Mark and Malice mechanic to cause extra damage to marked targets.3) Inquisitor with a Torch, Survival Skills to allude foes or buff abilities, and an Intuition mechanic that uses the initiative as a bones to combat.4) Reaver with dual Maces, summoning their Thieves Guild to aid in combat, and their Steal abilities a Counter in combat.*5) Shadow Mage with an off hand Focus, Arcane Shadow spells, and can summon a Shadow Thief to steal from a distance.

Elementalist1) Tempest with a War Horn and Shouts to command the weather and elements, and the ability to Overcharge their attunements, cause mass devastation in their wake.2) Weaver with a main hand sword, combat Stances to manipulate the elements, and the ability to control two separate elements at the same time.3) Magus with a main hand Focus, able to cast Consecration Spells, and the ability to Sub-attune, granting the benefits of other elements, while no longer able to swap attunements.4) Rune Master with a Long Bow, able to cast Elemental Wells, and Mark the ground with elemental symbols when they attune, buffing allies and damaging foes.*5) Arcanist with an off hand Scepter, the ability use Mantras, and attune to a 5th Element "the Arcane"

Mesmer1) Chronomancer with a Shield, Wells to control time, and a new mechanic Continuum Split, so they can go back in time.2) Mirage with a main hand Axe, Deception spells, and a Mirage Cloak that allows them to evade attacks without even moving.3) Enchanter with a Short Bow, enchanting Shouts, with their Shatter Skills having new abilities, making their clones Enchantments, buffing the allies close by instead of damaging foes.4) Psionic with a main hand Pistol, Sabotage skills work like Cantrips, and they have only have one Clone at a time but can be treated as 3 clones in 1.*5) Conjurer with dual Daggers, that can Summon illusionary beasts that later turns to clones, and conjure 5 clones instead of 3, but the shatter ability only effects foes around the caster.

Necromancer1) Reaper with Great Sword, Shouts that frighten their opponents, and a Reaper Shroud for close combat.2) Scourge with a Torch, Punishment abilities that torment and corrupt, and summons Shades to damaging foes close by.3) Diabolist with a Hammer, able to cast Tricks that damage foes, and can transform into a Demon Shroud.4) Death Stalker with a Rifle, Traps, and Stalking Spirits mechanics that can revive an ally or finish a foe.*5) Warlock with a off hand Shield, Glyphs, and a new mechanic that turns their life force into a Burst depending on their main hand weapon.

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@"VocalThought.9835" said:Here's some of my ideas.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1236276#Comment_1236276

Warrior-1) Berserker with a Torch, Rage skills and Berserker mode which gives new Berserker Bursts abilities.2) Spell Breaker with dual Daggers, Meditations, and Full Counters mechanic that absorbs and counter attacks surrounding foes.3) Warlord with Melee Staff, hired Recruits, and Marks to aid allies on the battlefield.4) Champion with a main hand Shield, Punishment abilities that weakens or leaves foes vulnerable, and Protection mechanic, gives a barrier and tethers to allies, to absorb damage.*5) Ravager with dual Pistols, Traps, and Ravage Burst mechanic which provides more of an area effect damage.

Guardian-1) Dragonhunter with Long Bows, Traps, and the ability turn their Virtues into Physical Constructs.2) Firebrands with a main hand Axe, Mantras, and changes their Virtues in to Tomes of several spells.3) Archon with an off hand Sword, glyphs, and the ability to attune to a Virtue at a time.4) Summoner with a War Horn, Summon mythical creatures for aid, and convert Virtues into Virtuous Pets*5) Mystic with main hand Focus, Arcane Spells, and Virtuous Burst abilities.

Revenant-1) Hearld with a Shield, conjuring Dragon abilities, and able to tap into the Dragon Legend to buff them and their allies.2) Renegade with Short Bow, able to summon spiritual combatants, and harness a Legendary Warrior's ability to command ancient forces and charging your allies for battle.3) Overlord with dual Scepters, able to summon minions from the mist, and Over Charge their connection to their attune legend.4) Mist Walker with dual Pistols, the ability to use the mist offensive and defensively, and Merge Legend abilities.*5) Rift Slayer with a Great Sword, and able to cast dimensional spells, and the timely ability to open or close a dimensional gate.

Ranger1) Druid with a Staff, glyphs, and the ability to turn into a Celestial Avatar2) Soulbeast with a main hand Dagger, combat stances, and the ability to take in the spirit of their pet granting them animalistic abilities.3) Shaman with a off hand Focus, summoning Totems that buff them and their allies, and having the ability to merge into their pet, having all of their pets' abilities.4) Warden with an off hand Shield, summoning herds and commanding nature to do their bidding, along with controlling 2 pets at the same time.*5) Wanderer with a Hammer, having shouts to stifle their foes, and can summon random pets for a brief moment of time.

Engineer1) Scrapper with a Hammer, having mechanical Gyros that place wells at their destruction, and a personal gyro that revive an ally or finish a foe.2) Holosmith with a main hand Sword, the ability to conjure hard light, and the ability to Exceed their normal light abilities before they overheat.3) Machinist- with a main hand Mace, they can create gear for them and their allies, and their new mechanic allows them to use their gears to assemble into a Battle Mech.4) Technomancer with a Great Sword, and Physical Cybrotronics abilities, and Mana that alters their Cybrotronics.*5) Med Tech with an off hand Focus, Preparation skills, along with Biomatrix mechanic for buffing them and their allies.

Thief1) Daredevil with a Melee Staff, Physical Skills for attacking foes, and offensive and defensive Dodge abilities.2) Deadeye with a Rifle, cantrips for manipulating foes, and a Deadeye Mark and Malice mechanic to cause extra damage to marked targets.3) Inquisitor with a Torch, Survival Skills to allude foes or buff abilities, and an Intuition mechanic that uses the initiative as a bones to combat.4) Reaver with dual Maces, summoning their Thieves Guild to aid in combat, and their Steal abilities a Counter in combat.*5) Shadow Mage with an off hand Focus, Arcane Shadow spells, and can summon a Shadow Thief to steal from a distance.

Elementalist1) Tempest with a War Horn and Shouts to command the weather and elements, and the ability to Overcharge their attunements, cause mass devastation in their wake.2) Weaver with a main hand sword, combat Stances to manipulate the elements, and the ability to control two separate elements at the same time.3) Magus with a main hand Focus, able to cast Consecration Spells, and the ability to Sub-attune, granting the benefits of other elements, while no longer able to swap attunements.4) Rune Master with a Long Bow, able to cast Elemental Wells, and Mark the ground with elemental symbols when they attune, buffing allies and damaging foes.*5) Arcanist with an off hand Scepter, the ability use Mantras, and attune to a 5th Element "the Arcane"

Mesmer1) Chronomancer with a Shield, Wells to control time, and a new mechanic Continuum Split, so they can go back in time.2) Mirage with a main hand Axe, Deception spells, and a Mirage Cloak that allows them to evade attacks without even moving.3) Enchanter with a Short Bow, enchanting Shouts, with their Shatter Skills having new abilities, making their clones Enchantments, buffing the allies close by instead of damaging foes.4) Psionic with a main hand Pistol, Sabotage skills work like Cantrips, and they have only have one Clone at a time but can be treated as 3 clones in 1.*5) Conjurer with dual Daggers, that can Summon illusionary beasts that later turns to clones, and conjure 5 clones instead of 3, but the shatter ability only effects foes around the caster.

Necromancer1) Reaper with Great Sword, Shouts that frighten their opponents, and a Reaper Shroud for close combat.2) Scourge with a Torch, Punishment abilities that torment and corrupt, and summons Shades to damaging foes close by.3) Diabolist with a Hammer, able to cast Tricks that damage foes, and can transform into a Demon Shroud.4) Death Stalker with a Rifle, Traps, and Stalking Spirits mechanics that can revive an ally or finish a foe.*5) Warlock with a off hand Shield, Glyphs, and a new mechanic that turns their life force into a Burst depending on their main hand weapon.

The warden with two pets would be nice! Maybe have some more of a tanky/support role sharing damage with the two pets. Beastmastery has a taunt already. Instead of switching pets you have both active and utilize F1-F5 to control the pets. If they want to make it more balanced, they could have the pets active but the pets bar and abilities are for one pet only allowing you to swap between the two pets bars with a short cooldown. ? Idk but sounds like a lot potential.Could also have a stacking order (pets will stand next to their master) for your pets, giving the shared damage buff but when not stack the buff is not active (balance). This would also allow for positioning in raids.

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@"Brad.9730" said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:

Warrior elite spec will likely focus on their core theme of being a master of arms and weapon diversity. I’m not sure how that would manifest, but since they conjure banners and are missing a support/tactics feel, it seemed like a neat idea to conjure weapons we can’t use normally (polearms/throwing spears, greataxe, fist/claw weapons, etc.).

I picture the warrior using utility skills a bit like engineer's kit, a "weapon" kit skill that replace your current 1 to 5 skills to a specific weapon skill (like a lance, greataxe, crossbow, etc). I would totally play that. Nice suggestion btw.

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@Edge.8724 said:

@"Brad.9730" said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:

Warrior elite spec will likely focus on their core theme of being a master of arms and weapon diversity. I’m not sure how that would manifest, but since they conjure banners and are missing a support/tactics feel, it seemed like a neat idea to conjure weapons we can’t use normally (polearms/throwing spears, greataxe, fist/claw weapons, etc.).

I picture the warrior using utility skills a bit like engineer's kit, a "weapon" kit skill that replace your current 1 to 5 skills to a specific weapon skill (like a lance, greataxe, crossbow, etc). I would totally play that. Nice suggestion btw.

Just my opinion, but kits should not be given to other classes than the engineer.

Engineer was paying alot to get access to kits. The class has the smallest weapon choice pool of every class (just 3 core weapon choices: pistol, shield, rifle), also the weapons are pretty weak compared to the weapons of other classes. And then engineer also can't switch weapons.A warrior, which actually has the biggest weapon pool of every class, should not get access to kits, as long as these kits are not made that weak that you will never actually use them.

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