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The Post patch discussion, how do we feel about revenant now?


Thornwolf.9721

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Personally, as a rev main I feel broken and incomplete as a class at this stage. Yes Condi rev CAN and IS strong but it doesn't mean the class is not in a bad place and honestly it really is right now. Power revenant feels TERRIBLE to play and it feels to me like condi is the only way to go; Some traits feel next to worthless and there are a lot of issues the class still has such as not having a core ranged condi-weapon which shoe-horns them into trying to run ren but outside of PvE renegade just doesn't cut the mustard.

Pair this with staff getting destroyed, and the hammer being bashed into bits and we are left with unrewarding gameplay. I've been running builds in WvW trying to find something OTHER than mallyx that works because I know they are about to nerf it into oblivion. So Im at a loss and not sure how to make it work, I feel like we got hit straight in the core and we can't find our air again. I can get it to function, but it feels clunky and less fluid with more restrictions and higher cost than I feel is necessary at any give time and I almost feel like our class needs a rework or to be pushed back a couple patches. Prior to the patch I felt rev was fine, it needed its damage nerfed but EVERYTHING else didn't need to happen and could of been left alone with our damage modifiers and burst being toned down.

Yet some classes feel relatively fine after the patch. (We all know who they are.)

So tell me how do my fellow revenants feel? Do you have ideas on how this could be fixed, and have you been having any luck with builds that are lesser known? (Outside of Mallyx due to us all knowing the time is coming to see him be once again clapped by the nerf bat.)

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I still play Power Rev in SPVP and it feels okay, however the risk of being more squishy compared to condi rev or other condi classes is not really worth the damage output power rev can do now, even with Berserker stats. I also started playing Retribution instead of Devastation cause the trait line is pretty garbage now.

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[WvW] This is what I have been playing 95% of the time I'm on my Rev, with slight variations to sigils, stats, and trait choices. Aside from Staff 5 being dumpstered, the build feels fine. No stunbreak on swap is not a huge hit when I have a lot of stab, evades, and overall mobility. Immob break is nice because there has been a big increase in immob cancer post-patch. I went back to Cleansing Channel because I didn't really find myself breaking stun that much, and when I would it would usually be followed up by an evade or block so the follow-up stab from Glaring Resolve didn't feel necessary. Damage feels significantly lower, but I can still do good burst (Enchanted Daggers and Impossible Odds did not get touched). Outnumbered is harder, but I don't think that issue is unique to Rev. Certain matchups are also harder, such as Thief as a whole and most condi builds, but in general the build doesn't feel totally destroyed. I still enjoy it, but I do admit it is a bit less fun. I don't really see many power Revs anymore.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAwyZlxQHMPyh1RNMO6hRSfMCKgl+U6qC-zRRYBRHyXMcBlSbJQmRQnFQvhgTDA-e

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Hammer skill 2 has needed a fix since forever, and staff skill 5 needs to lose the self-root. A windup is okay, but you should be able to move during it. Right now, it's no longer useful as a mobility skill, and it's easy for the enemy to avoid accidentally.

Both can probably use some DPS buffs to compensate for the lost damage on their skill 5s, especially Staff where it was where the spike really was. Maybe it could have a mechanic whereby if you get knockbacks with the staff, staff skill 2 gets an improved effect if used within a certain period of time? That way, the CC and the damage is still separated, but you're rewarded for a well-executed Surge.

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Well power renegade is a bit better, you can use it, but it is in a similar position to power reaper (more or less).About the changes i liked them, we need more changes to get rev to its full potencial but its a good first step.If it were me i would mix the 2 movility skills from shiro into one like the old ranger sword skill(evasion backwards and leap as second cast) , and in the slot left i would get a dmg skill ( something like a guardian sumoned sword , like a jade projectile or similar).Also this one might be unpopular but what if we changed assasins precence to invocation and named it legendary presence? I mean i know AP is not a bad trait but this way we could be a little more greedy in devastation wich i think fits more with the tematic of shiro and we would get a good area buff like spotter but with different effects depending on the legend we use wich i think fits fine in invocation .At least i think rev should have more unique buff and not just the few boons we get like fury power etc , we need something to get a little spotlight even if only as suports and i think it would be just fine this way , it could work like this: in shiro it gives 150power , jalis 150thoughness, ventari could be 150 healing , mallinx could be expertice(condi duration) glint could be boonduration and finaly got kalla you could have a mix 75feroc 75 condidmg or you could do it more unique and share kallas fervor to your allies.

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Well, I'd like to sum up what currently is in a desperate need of fixes.

Weapon Skills:

  • Axe Frigid Blitz - occassionally doesn't follow the target resulting in dealing 0 damage and energy waste
  • Sword Unrelenting Assault - frequently doesn't follow the target resulting in 0 damage and energy waste
  • Hammer Coalescence of Ruin - frequently disappears in the terrain resulting in 0 damage and energy waste
  • Shortbow Bloodbane Path - frequently doesn't hit the target resulting in 0 damage and energy waste
  • Shortbow Spiritcrush - unable to be used from behind or side. We are playing Revenant, come on
  • Shortbow Sevenshot - this skill is so unreliable against moving targets so that it's not worth using for me
  • Staff Surge of the Mist - the wind up animation kills the purpose of the skill for me as it is no longer a reliable source of CC, I'm fine with the 0 damage

Legend Skills:

  • Shiro Riposting Shadows - the 40 energy cost for a stunbreak with an evade makes it very unrewarding. And since the Revenant can't choose its utility-set, then playing Shiro forces you to use that skill leaving you with 10 energy. 10 energy is less than the most expensive Weapon Skill. So, using Riposting Shadows after Legend Swap leaves you more vulnerable than using any other Stunbreak in Revenant's kit.
  • Shiro Phase Traversal - again, 35 energy cost leaves you with 15 energy and while the skill itself is pretty strong it leaves Revenant being only able t spam autoattacks with Quickness until it regens some Energy back.
  • Mallyx Banish Enchantment - 30 Energy cost is still a lot. Make it strip 2 boons and use 20 energy instead.
  • Ventari - lacks any stunbreak

Traits:

  • Devastation Battle Scars - it's a nice concept that is poorly implemented. It promotes spammy and boring playstyle which leads you to keep autoattacking. Is it fun? Not really.
  • Herald
  • Renagade

So, overall I think that Revenant is in a pretty good spot, but it got nerfed more than it needed. I really like how Mallyx regained its' personality with the recent updates. Jalis is also a very good example of a good change. It went from being very clunky, to feeling impactful and meaningful in the Team-comp. All Ventari needs is a Stunbreak because IMO his role is very clear - you heal, clear boons and provide Regeneration - all of this on top of cool mechanics; Tablet manipulation, mobile projectile absorption, knockback and Alacrity.I hated the fact that for almost 5 years Shiro's been taking up the go-to legend slot on Revenant in PvP. But I don't think it got nerfs it deserved. What I'd suggest the Devs should do is to really looks at what Shiro was in GW1, what's his identity in GW2 and play around it. Every Core Legend starts to feel very individual and that's great. Then what is Shiro about? Damage, mobility, boonstrip, Quickness, teleports? Redefine it, and stick to the design.

Not every Legend has to do tons of damage, heals, CC and cleanses. They should compliment, not work against each other.

Shiro, Hammer, Staff and Shortbow feel awful to use and I hope something is going to be done about it.Herald and Renegade along Ventari became my least used legend as they are uninteresting and don't have any personality. Nothing about them makes these E-Specs interesting in terms of new mechanics or a playstyle. Herald's Traitline is mostly a huge output of passives and boons which doesn't change my gameplay. I don't use the Shield because I don't need it in any situation. Only when I feel like I'm bored of Core Off-hands. I don't mean rework the entire E-Spec, but I feel like there is nothing fun about it. Let's compare Glint to Core Legends. Condition manipulation with pull, teleportations, creating stone roads and taunting foes, summoning Ventari's tablet against what - a shining circle and a knockback?

Renegade is bad against anything that isn't a huge stationary target. 3 out of 5 Shortbow skills are in a pretty bad spot. Kalla does the Boon job better than Herald and the Utility Skills are simply boring. This E-Specs is boring and lacks depth, bugs aside.

Lastly,the Energy System.Stop trying to hop around the energy system, stick to it. We have weapons skills that use energy and have low or high CDs. Overloaded utility skills that are spammable and leave Revenant without any energy. And we have F skill that also use energy and CDs. This system is nuts and it deosn't serve it's purpose.Thief's F have CD and don't use Initiatie, Utility Skills have CD and don't use Initiative. Weapon skills use Initiative and are spammable - simple. Take that as an example

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Preface: I'm a power herald main, have played it since 2015, that is, through the time that it was broken, the time that was trash, the time that it was broken again (aka the entire year of 2019)... and now, the time that it's not very good at all.

I don't think power herald has any place in the meta now especially with condi running rampant... but it can still deal solid damage. That said, I don't see it being competitive in sPvP simply because you can run other stuff with a higher reward:risk ratio whereas now you can get shut down EXTREMELY easily as rev.

Hmm, what else is good?

Glint is still an extremely useful legend and the herald traitline remains solid. Damage still exists with Deathstrike, but not for anyone who decides to run shield in the intended Herald way. Sword 2 rework is a huge range nerf but I think the functionality of the skill is rock solid. Retribution is a solid line for people who want to drop Devastation after its resoundingly meh rework. Renegade feels extremely fun, but I'm focusing on Herald in this post.

Now, onto the most glaringly bad things, as well as some other not-crippling stuff that just grinds my gears.

  1. Staff 5 is trash, according to me and every other person who has ever picked up a staff on revenant. This should honestly have been hotfixed, but I get that it was time to deal with the most broken classes first. The balance team knows what they have to do on this one, it's the easiest change to make.

2 (and this is the worst change of all). Power herald has lost its flow. This isn't about how it performs in PvP or WvW, it's about the playstyle we've learned to love. Just think for a second and completely eliminate the competitive aspect of this game. Don't think about matchups, even though a lot of good matchups have turned... significantly worse. Just try to play power herald, and you'll see yourself sitting back, waiting for your energy to come back. You'll be waiting for your cooldowns to come up so you always have a stunbreak. You'll be kiting and camping 800 range away so you can regenerate your energy. You can no longer truly play offense and defense at the same time, which was what led me to start playing herald in the start. What are we supposed to be, thieves?

Let's just put this in all caps so we get the point down: CONSTANTLY INCREASING ENERGY COSTS IS THE LAZIEST WAY OF BALANCING THIS CLASS. For example, Banish Enchantment recently got the nerf to 30 energy, but instead of doing that, why not just... reduce the amount of attacks to 2 and keep the energy cost at 20? Actually give revenants a chance to use multiple skills, even if each of those skills isn't quite as overloaded anymore. However, I'm most notably looking at you, Riposting Shadows... which brings me to my next point:

  1. I'd estimate invocation power herald has lost about 2/3 of its stunbreak power through the deletion of Empty Vessel, and the nonsensical change to 40 energy for Riposting Shadows coupled with the increase of the Glint stunbreak (which also doubles as an offensive skill) to 25 seconds. I'm not going to ask for Empty Vessel back because a 10 second on demand stunbreak would be broken in this current meta and make rev almost as slippery as thief. I think you have to look into reverting the energy/cd nerfs on our actual stunbreak skills. This, coupled with classes that can still spam CC like no one's business, and the fact that you're often fighting outnumbered, results in you simply being locked down no matter how fast your reaction time is. Other players can still frontload CCs and you're dead no matter what you do. Fighting outnumbered is more difficult than ever on power herald, and half the time, you'll die to someone's downed skills in a 1v3 anyway, because they didn't get nerfed (lol).

  2. The rework to devastation is amazing in PvE, terrible in PvP/WvW. The fundamental difference, of course, is the numbers behind Battle Scars. It's useless to ever take Battle Scars in competitive gamemodes, it doesn't provide you anywhere near the benefit that old Assassin's Annihilation did. So now we're a class with trash stunbreaks, severely nerfed range, and extra sustain reduced to zero. In PvE though? Battle Scars are amazing. Funny that this might have something to do with a 6x difference in healing numbers between the two modes.

4b (Targeted raging at one specific change) Aggressive Agility is a BOTTOM TIER trait, it has absolutely no saving grace. May I introduce you, perhaps, to this trait? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Sprint This trait provides the same benefit as the new Aggressive Agility, but warrior has multitudes more movement skills than revenant. Oh, but that's not all! In addition, warriors get a passive 25% speed bonus as well as a 3% damage modifier when they have swiftness. You can't even make the argument that they're in different slots. These are both adept major traits, and in the case of the Discipline line for warrior, it's located conveniently and is easy to take in one of the most meta lines for a class ever. Aggressive Agility needs improvement.

  1. Sword offhand is even more necessary for power herald now, because you simply deal pitiful damage without it. Even so, if your Deathstrike/Chilling Isolation get blocked or blinded, you have no damage left. I'm a person who has stuck with shield as my main offhand forever and have been able to play it to great success in WvW, and now I find if I play shield, more often than not, I simply can't get the kill and get stuck in a stalemate against some tanky build. I'm glad that Shield didn't get any nerfs, but for now, there's even less reason to take it over sword.

  2. This is a more global note. Some CC skills should do some damage. I'm fine with Surge doing no damage IF they revert the stupid 0.5 second windup, because it's a skill with no tell that it's going to be used. I'm not fine with Jade Winds and Chaotic Release doing no damage, because they have massive tells, are huge investments to use, and a notable cast time. I'm fine with Disrupting Stab (on Spellbreaker) doing no damage, because it's a skill with no tell, and it's cast instantly. I'm not fine with Backbreaker (Warrior Hammer 5) doing no damage, because it has a massive tell and if you get hit by it, it's probably as part of a combo that you had time to react to. Get what I'm saying? I'm not asking for Chaotic Release to do 7k damage like it used to- but at least make it do 2k.

  3. (REEEEEEE) How, for the love of Christ almighty, did you manage to miss nerfing Thief stolen skills? I'm out here critting for 1 on my Surge and thieves are still able to lay down double 6k essence saps from 900 range while walking away from you and spamming slow on you.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

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Condi Rev builds are what emerged from the nerf meteor.They are ugly, disgusting abominations that aren't even good at applying Condi, more like regurgitating Condi back at people while sustaining really hard.

Power Rev was put into the grave and had concrete poured in for good measure.If Shiro nerf wasn't bad enough, Power damage got nerfed across the board.

Staff essentially became a pure utility set because SotM no longer does damage, and Staff autos and Staff 2 were never good for power pressure.Sword also got affected by Power nerf, and the only good thing that arisen from it was Sword 2 rework.OH Sword now has the same cooldowns as any other Profession weapon, except that it still has an energy cost and the damage was significantly neutered.

Devastation is.... at death's door.It's still functional, but there are quite a few problems.

  • Aggressive Agility is a good trait, but with the cooldowns and nerfed utilities, its proc rate is extremely low, no point in picking.
  • Battle Scars is good in PvE, huge joke in competitive. Basically an old Minor turned into stack based but need traits to even exist. Bad. Just bad.Only good thing about Devastation now is that Brutality is extremely strong.Anyone with Stability is gonna lose it extremely quickly and can then be ping ponged by yur team.Very fun to use SotM still with Brutality and just strip an entire blob's Stability.

Retribution has its problems, but arguebly better than Devastation.

Invocation is now "optional" due to removal of Empty Vessel.Song of the Mists is viable btw, if yu wanna swap to Jalis in the middle of a group and gain 3k worth of Barrier for big memes.Everyone is gonna use Charged Mists though, but since most people dropped Shiro, no one is gonna use Charged Mists anyway.

Salvation : HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Mallyx and Corruption : good for Power builds too. I recommend using it to get unexpected amount of sustain and extreme Condi immunity.

If yur still playing Power Rev like me, keep up the good fight.

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@"ventusthunder.5067" yes, Essence Sap is what makes me hate fighting Thieves. I am glad that not as many run Improv now (the horrors of getting a quad Essence Sap from acro S/D) but IMO it still does too much damage for it being a ranged skill that does not require you to face the target.

Also I like having Aggressive Agility simply to get away from Ancient Seeds cancer, but looking at it, it is a pretty lackluster trait otherwise. I don't think sword 3 even procs the break, at least on the tooltip when I first checked.

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@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:@"ventusthunder.5067" yes, Essence Sap is what makes me hate fighting Thieves. I am glad that not as many run Improv now (the horrors of getting a quad Essence Sap from acro S/D) but IMO it still does too much damage for it being a ranged skill that does not require you to face the target.

Also I like having Aggressive Agility simply to get away from Ancient Seeds cancer, but looking at it, it is a pretty lackluster trait otherwise. I don't think sword 3 even procs the break, at least on the tooltip when I first checked.

I almost forgot how much ancient seeds makes me rage when my Surge no longer does enough damage to kill the binding roots, lmao. I've actually been forced to take the trait just based on how much immob is floating around. Sure, they may have nerfed CC damage, but right now it's running rampant based on having horribly nerfed stunbreaks.

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These are all wonderful suggestions, im glad to see this is not something that is a "me" thing. I was concerned I was doing something wrong because I just started having a crazy amount of issues with my rev as of late. (I don't want to jump into the condi-band wagon because I know whats coming.)

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I dunno from playing a Rev but I came across a Revenant player in WvW today and he was very difficult to take down even with allies.

Granted im not a big PvP or WvW player but I get my fair share of kills and earn my fair share of salt from those I do kill so I can't be totally incompetent there.But this Rev I fought today had to be the toughest person i've fought in WvW to date, dude was really strong and pushing out so much torment damage I could barely handle it.

I hold no shame in admitting that in a 1v1 scenario I wouldn't stand a chance against his build and nothing I could do prior to completely changing my build and playstyle would change this.Certainly made me put Revs on the Red Alert status haha now every time I see one i'm going to assume they're going to give me far more trouble than I would have expected a few days ago.

Kudos to that Revenant player whoever he is, I enjoyed our multiple skirmishes ^^

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@"ventusthunder.5067" said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:@"ventusthunder.5067" yes, Essence Sap is what makes me hate fighting Thieves. I am glad that not as many run Improv now (the horrors of getting a quad Essence Sap from acro S/D) but IMO it still does too much damage for it being a ranged skill that does not require you to face the target.

Also I like having Aggressive Agility simply to get away from Ancient Seeds cancer, but looking at it, it is a pretty lackluster trait otherwise. I don't think sword 3 even procs the break, at least on the tooltip when I first checked.

I almost forgot how much ancient seeds makes me rage when my Surge no longer does enough damage to kill the binding roots, lmao. I've actually been forced to take the trait just based on how much immob is floating around. Sure, they may have nerfed CC damage, but right now it's running rampant based on having horribly nerfed stunbreaks.

The only thing that aggressive agility has going for it is that the other two traits in the tier are equally ignorable. A 10% modifier for roughly 20% of a fight (so roughly 2% on average and worse if you count down cleave) or roughly 250 damage and 250 healing on two thirty second cooldowns from the tremendously under tuned battle scars, all three of them are either niche or ignorable.

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Used to roam on power herald (since I wouldn't need to swap classes for squad unless missing firebrands) and now I just roam on daredevil (swap to staff or other class for squad).

It feels really poor when you have 1 stunbreak ; power herald doesn't have the burst on staff at all so you're down to sword + hammer.Staff : both damage and healing gutted, staff 5 has really clunky windupSword: not enough pressure without shiro's Impossible OddsHammer: only used for ranged pressure , CoR aiming still wonky since October 2019 , CoR cooldown increased , Drop the Hammer does near zero damage despite the huge tell

Traits-wise , assassin's annihilation changing to battle scars also hurt sustain.

The reason people run the condi cancer builds is because mallyx has the pull + leap, without it mace+axe gets kited

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@zaswer.5246 said:If it were me i would mix the 2 movility skills from shiro into one like the old ranger sword skill(evasion backwards and leap as second cast) , and in the slot left i would get a dmg skill ( something like a guardian sumoned sword , like a jade projectile or similar).

Mixing the 2 mobility skills would be incredibly bad. You would lose a ton of the functionality of each by splitting them. The teleport needs to stay separate so it can be used to hunt down targets without any sort of prior requirement. Shiro's Impossible Odds is already a strong enough damage skill on its own; power rev doesn't need another energy intensive skill outside of that on Shiro's skillset

Also this one might be unpopular but what if we changed assasins precence to invocation and named it legendary presence? I mean i know AP is not a bad trait but this way we could be a little more greedy in devastation

Notoriety is the selfish option for that tier in Devastation. Devastation doesn't need another selfish options since they'll directly compete with Notoriety.

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Well Imposible odds is deffinitely not enought dmg increase as it is right now , at least for pve power revenant , and also sword 5 is already a tp so you dont realy need both .Also you dont necesarily need to change AP for another dmg modificator and you could put an utility trait like recovering energy with siphons or giving boons to movement skills .

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Condition: overall great; short bow is still mediocre for PvP/WvW, but can be usedPhysical: garbage; not only is worse than condi at every place in the game but also loss the distinctive flow that has since the release.

Legends:

  • Mallyx: strong, amongs the best and more usefull.

  • Herald: good, despite the nerfs still provides value at decent cost of oportunity.

  • Jalis: decent, has good synergies with condi builds, but if used in physical damage based ones the dps is really low.

  • Shiro: garbage, skill x skill very low value in relation to the energy cost but more important no longer plays/works as before; 0 reasons to use it in the future.

  • Ventari: useless; never liked the lore or the mechanics of this legend so I never use it; doesn't exist to me.

  • Kalla: useless; never liked the lore and I hate the mechanics of this legend so even when is buffed I don't enjoy this one and keep returning to M/H/J after using Kalla a few days.

    Weapons:

  • Mace: slow but good, easy to interrupt but can put a lot of pressure and stacks damage well.

  • Axe: decent, other classes have better off hand weapons but is still usable.

  • Shield: decent, used to be bad, but the current meta is so tanky and the other weapons so bad that currently works at everything except zerg vs zerg WvW.

  • Shot bow: decent, can be used at every game mode albeit half of the skills are garbage (the state of bows in the game outside Ranger's LB is pitiful).

  • Swords: mediocre, they can't compete against condi in PvE neither beat tanks in PvP/WvW, so no reason to use them.

  • Staff: bad, I wouldn't even use this one for bar breaking in PvE; has a huge "DPS LEAK" neon banner floating around every time you touch one.

  • Hammer: LOL, was only used at long range WvW warfare and now svcks at that, so there's no longer reason for this weapon to exist, much less to use one.

    Overall feel: good, finally condi bunker Rev can stand against all kind of Guardian, Mesmer or Necro builds in Conquest, do it well in WvW and seamlessly level PvE content without even touching the build. Power Rev is garbage, but 2019 was essentially a one year long farewell to that build. For both PvE and competitive game modes if I want to play power there's at least 3 specs of Guardian/DH/FB builds I would run instead of power Rev, which is a bit sad due the time I spent crafting the legendaries (now on track to make Astralaria and Eureka), but what could be said? Main designed of Rev/Herald leaved the ship long ago and the heirs had a long running dismantling the build and how it worked (instead of just squaring the numbers). I don't even think about touching Shiro or the power weapons again. Is all condi Rev for me; If I want hybrid or condi I just play Guardian...

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@"zaswer.5246" said:Well Imposible odds is deffinitely not enought dmg increase as it is right now , at least for pve power revenant , and also sword 5 is already a tp so you dont realy need both .Also you dont necesarily need to change AP for another dmg modificator and you could put an utility trait like recovering energy with siphons or giving boons to movement skills .

The extra "utility" choice in that category is "Thrill of Combat." And Impossible Odds is definitely enough of a damage increase for PvE power rev; it carries a lot of its damage. And sure, sword 5 is a TP, but it's a SHORT TP and has a MASSIVE cooldown, unlike Phase Traversal (And Phase Traversal has a range of 1200 + Quickness + Unblockable which is infinitely better). NOT the same at all or as useful.

Also, 34k DPS POWER REN for PVE now; Power Rev is definitely not struggling to be viable anymore for PvE and doesn't really need much except for maybe a slightly more relevant Elite Spec. up to 65k burst and finishing the opening 20% at 45k. Really solid

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@"Thornwolf.9721" said:The benchmark is great, for PvE min-maxing. But it is suffering in WvW and PvP. Im talking in a general feel a crossed the game, and as I don't raid and don't really care for that content mode Its kinda one of those things thats "cool it can raid! Im happy for them."

My responses were solely directed at Zaswer's opinion's, not directed at your initial post or further statements, so take that as you will. Not meant to be my general feelings on the class as a whole or how it's performing in WvW/PvP

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