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MYSTIC CLOVERS


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@Safandula.8723 said:If u convert gold/hour it looks like that. Wvw players get 2 clovers per 6-8h, and almost 0 gold .crafting 1 cover cost on avarage i think 5g? Open World farm gives u 30 g/h. Dungeons give... No idea, i dont play it, dungs were already dead when i started to play, but ye obviously thats forgotten content that need reward revamp. Which propably wont happen cuz of low populations.

Dungeons come out at about 15-20 gold per hour for experienced (not speedrun) groups. They are still a good source of gold if you can get a group of dedicated players together. It's just way simpler to do the solo open world farm or other farms available.

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You have to play wvw if you want to craft a legendary weapon (mystic clovers are mostly used in legedary crafting), because Gift of Battle is available only through WvW reward track. So... it's weird if someone has a problem with mystic clovers from wvw or pvp, but gift of battle is totally OK.Mystic clovers can be obtained from PvE. Buy 2 of them (daily) from Fractal vendor or buy mystic coins and gamble in Mystic Forge.

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They dont want to add any more incentives to dungeons as they dont want players completing them in large numbers, since development and support for them is dead.

If you want guaranteed clovers just do the wvw reward tracks?

Pve gets way more loot and its far easier to craft legendaries if you are a pve player so I dont think they need more ways to get clovers in PVE specifically.

I wouldnt be against seeing other ways however, as long as they are similar to fractals and cost more overall than the RNG method.

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@Fuzdom.6493 said:Again you miss the point Cyn.

MAKING UP WITH GOLD IS PAYING FOR IT.

and pve makes you a metric ton of gold without much effort.

Wvw and pvp do NOT pay for it. They get REWARDED IT for just playing wvw and pvp.

yeah, playing wvw or pvp for HOURS rewards you some very few mystic clovers. Seriously, it is faster and easier to do Silverwastes RIBA and buy, then to go for mystic clover via reward tracks.

PVE should get reward it for just playing pve too , no? m

and you get so many rewards pvp and wvw players can only dream of (if they would care), if anything, pvp/wvw rewards need an extreme boost (like 200%) to get even in the same league as pve rewards. Not close, just same league.

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@Jilora.9524 said:Again why should I pay for it when wvw and pvp gets it FREE in reward tracks.

Um we pay for them because we make way less per hour in those modes

Hmm I think assume you way too much things about the numbers of clovers you are going to be able get through WvW/PvP. It is not like if you could get a mystic each time you open a chest in WvW or each time you either loose or win in PvP. And we all know that in order to progress these track faster you need all the boosters + winning the match-ups. That is not something available to any random casual that decides to play WvW/PvP.

It is true that you are going to get some for free but how many hours is it going to take? No matter how you spin it, it will require dedication whether you are a only PvE player or a WvW/PvP, unless Anet decides at some point that mystic clovers becomes a daily resource that requires a broader supply.

Other than that, using your alt account to give traction to your complaint, I find it very lame.

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@flog.3485 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:Again why should I pay for it when wvw and pvp gets it FREE in reward tracks.

Um we pay for them because we make way less per hour in those modes

Hmm I think assume you way too much things about the numbers of clovers you are going to be able get through WvW/PvP. It is not like if you could get a mystic each time you open a chest in WvW or each time you either loose or win in PvP. And we all know that in order to progress these track faster you need all the boosters + winning the match-ups. That is not something available to any random casual that decides to play WvW/PvP.

It is true that you are going to get some for free but how many hours is it going to take? No matter how you spin it, it will require dedication whether you are a only PvE player or a WvW/PvP, unless Anet decides at some point that mystic clovers becomes a daily resource that requires a broader supply.

Other than that, using your alt account to give traction to your complaint, I find it very lame.

I copy what the op wrote once then answered hence the 2 lines. The reward tracks progress the same win/losing and you have the option of buffs. The pips are winning/rank reliant. I have many and at this point at the end of the reward track if they gave me the option to take 2 mc or 6g I'd take the gold even tho the mc probably worth about 5g ea. So yeah I understand I didn't quote the dude I copy paste then answer but your argument is mostly vs him

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@Fuzdom.6493 said:CynI am only advocating for mystic clovers to drop in PVE land like they are guaranteed in REWARDS tracks, nothing else.

You and Lare however wants pve players to spend their gold and mystic coin and fractal relics and obsidian shards and whatever the other stuff that are required to PAY just to convert for a random chance in mystic forge - something wvw and pvp players get guaranteed and FREE.

  • AND yes PAYING for it on the Bot in fractal is guaranteed...BUT still PAYING for it.

What/WHY you have against clovers being dropped in world boss events in pve land?

Because it doesnt need to drop. You already get the most clovers by being a pve player. You get the most gold which translates to the most clovers. If you dont want rng, use fractal relics to guarantee 2 everyday. By allowing them to drop you take away the main incentive for mystic coins to be traded which casual players use as a source of income.

Since you dont seem to understand the math I'll lay out easy numbers for you to understand.

Spend 6 hours in wvw or pvp get 2 clover guaranteed with some trash drops amounting to like 3g.

Spend 1 hour in fractals get 2 on a daily basis, along with 15g in drops after you've subtracted the cost purchasing from the fractal vendor.

Since I have no faith you'll actually understand the above, heres an even easier analogy. You are complaining that your boss wont pay you in cheeseburgers and is instead paying you a 1 million dollar salary. You see intern Timmy gets paid in cheeseburgers and ask why cant I get paid in cheeseburgers instead of 1 million dollars.

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@Shikaru.7618 said:

@"Fuzdom.6493" said:CynI am only advocating for mystic clovers to drop in PVE land like they are guaranteed in REWARDS tracks, nothing else.

You and Lare however wants pve players to spend their gold and mystic coin and fractal relics and obsidian shards and whatever the other stuff that are required to PAY just to convert for a random chance in mystic forge - something wvw and pvp players get guaranteed and FREE.
  • AND yes PAYING for it on the Bot in fractal is guaranteed...BUT still PAYING for it.

What/WHY you have against clovers being dropped in world boss events in pve land?

Because it doesnt need to drop. You already get the most clovers by being a pve player. You get the most gold which translates to the most clovers. If you dont want rng, use fractal relics to guarantee 2 everyday. By allowing them to drop you take away the main incentive for mystic coins to be traded which casual players use as a source of income.

Since you dont seem to understand the math I'll lay out easy numbers for you to understand.

Spend 6 hours in wvw or pvp get 2 clover guaranteed with some trash drops amounting to like 3g.

Spend 1 hour in fractals get 2 on a daily basis, along with 15g in drops after you've subtracted the cost purchasing from the fractal vendor.

Since I have no faith you'll actually understand the above, heres an even easier analogy. You are complaining that your boss wont pay you in cheeseburgers and is instead paying you a 1 million dollar salary. You see intern Timmy gets paid in cheeseburgers and ask why cant I get paid in cheeseburgers instead of 1 million dollars.

As a PVE only player, I have to say this was very well said.

OP, please do this test yourself when you have time. Start in WvW , note your gold and time yourself how long it takes to get the "free" Mystic clovers you mention.

Then after that, spend the same amount of time in Fractal T4's. Again, note your gold when you start, note your fractal relics as well.

Once you spend the equivalent time in Fractal T4's as you did in WvW. Compare the two results.

You'll see that WvW isn't "free" Mystic clovers. The time spent is what they are paying instead of currency. In PVE we get much faster currency than they do. Because it takes them much longer time wise to get the same Mystic Clovers we can by buying.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:The Mystic Clovers in wvw and pvp as guaranteed rewards are balanced against those game modes wealth gain (and I guarantee you, I am very sure a LOT of pvp and wvw players would love to get gold instead of Mystic Clovers).

And what the OP just isn't getting, is the super-secret-awesome-answer is: PLAY MORE THAN JUST ONE GAME MODE.

I do my T4 fractal dailies and play WvW, as well as PvE metas. I get a large chunk of gold from fractals, crafting mats from metas, and from WvW I get clovers, transmutations charges, tomes of knowledge, unid dyes, mystic coins, obsidian shards, and even more crafting mats (both for gear and ascended food).

It's almost as if ANET designed the game so those who partake in multiple game modes at the same time reap the maximum of rewards. Odd premise that...

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, to be honest, in my opinion dungeons would benefit this. This change would bring a lot of people back. The problem is adding even 1 clover per succesfull run would decrease value of legendary items drastically. How about receiving a clover from repeatable achievements. Lets say 3 dungeons = 1 clover similar to Dungeon frequenter achievement? Lately I've been returning to dungeons with my brother to feel nostalgia again and honestly it's sad that people abadoned this content. If i had to bet how much people do Dungeon runs i'd bet on lower than 5%. It is fast, doesnt require meta squads and you do not die from 1 shot like in T4 fractals. Just a form od relax that could bring something useful to you and woulndt feel like you lost your time while you could make 20g in the time you've spent in dungeons. Dungeons can be also done solo if it's not restricted with mechanics like arah p1 or cof p1. If people would have more interest in dungeons, streams and YouTube channels would benefit aswell by teaching ppl how to solo the content. Im kinda fed up with fractals and raid runs with full meta restrictions, waiting for hours for pug team to form up and ppl rq after 1 fail, we need something to relax on after a day in work. Of course this is only the way to attract more people by expanding possibilities. It wouldn't be mandatory to run it, you can always go to fractals if it fits you better and just Craft clovers when you need them.

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@"Grave.9258" said:Well, to be honest, in my opinion dungeons would benefit this. This change would bring a lot of people back. The problem is adding even 1 clover per succesfull run would decrease value of legendary items drastically. How about receiving a clover from repeatable achievements. Lets say 3 dungeons = 1 clover similar to Dungeon frequenter achievement? Lately I've been returning to dungeons with my brother to feel nostalgia again and honestly it's sad that people abadoned this content. If i had to bet how much people do Dungeon runs i'd bet on lower than 5%. It is fast, doesnt require meta squads and you do not die from 1 shot like in T4 fractals. Just a form od relax that could bring something useful to you and woulndt feel like you lost your time while you could make 20g in the time you've spent in dungeons. Dungeons can be also done solo if it's not restricted with mechanics like arah p1 or cof p1. If people would have more interest in dungeons, streams and YouTube channels would benefit aswell by teaching ppl how to solo the content. Im kinda fed up with fractals and raid runs with full meta restrictions, waiting for hours for pug team to form up and ppl rq after 1 fail, we need something to relax on after a day in work. Of course this is only the way to attract more people by expanding possibilities. It wouldn't be mandatory to run it, you can always go to fractals if it fits you better and just Craft clovers when you need them.

So the 15-20 gold per hour you get from dungeons when running through semi casually (but knowing what to do), half of it as direct gold reward, is not enough?

Not to mention if you actually speedrun dungeons, which increases the reward even more?

Where do players get this notion that dungeons are unrewarding? They are almost as rewarding as fractals AND repeatable. The reasons dungeons see less play is that open world is just as rewarding when farmed, and does not require organization. The answer here is NOT to simply buff rewards for a content which is already quite rewarding.

Here: https://gw2dungeons.net/Records#23d3HbFdvM those are very old records. Most are in the 2-3 minute range per path.

Most of the paths are doable in 2-5 minutes for groups that know what to do. Even if we assume 10 minutes per path, which is rather long, that's a total of 1h 20 minutes for a full Dungeon Frequenter run. Which will net 950 dungeon tokens (800+150) and a direct gold reward of minimum 7.8 gold (2.8 gold from paths, 5 gold from dungeon frequenter). That is before ANY drops, additional tokens or any token conversion. Most tokens convert to 20-35 copper per token according to gw2efficiency, which yields another 2-3 gold.

So, to summarize: A slow group which does a dungeon frequenter run in 80 minutes (sub 60 minutes is easily doable with not perfect pro players, speeruners can do this in 30 minutes and less), will get a guaranteed minimum 8 liquid gold, 2-3 more gold in tokens before factoring for ANY loot in form of salvage, rares or exotic items.

Not seeing it, sorry.

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Do we really advise Fuzdom.6493 to go into WvW so he witnesses things directly? With his mentality and lack of understanding, he's gonna come back with a dozen threads to nerf X and Y. ^_^

My dear Fuzdom.6493, like some others have said, read up on opportunity cost.Know why legendary items in GW2 aren't just acquired through real hard gameplay achievements grind? They are also part of an array of tools to balance the game economy by acting as big sinks. Mystic clovers are also sinks. And in PvE where there's an overabundance of drops, the need for bigger sinks. Make no mistake, your greed and cupidity wouldn't go unanswered, oh no no no, for the next day a legendary weapon for example wouldn't require 77 mystic clovers but 99 or 123. Catch our drift now?

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@Cyninja.2954 said:So, while we add Mystic Clovers to PvE content, do we also reduce the gold gain in PvE to the levels of WvW and PvP?I absolutely love this. After I read this post I knew it not be received well. Could you imagine the uproar if the rewards were nerfed in PvE. Just imagine Pip chest for active PvE players with reduced rewards after they hit Diamond!

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Want more Clovers? FotM and WvW. Go farm RIBA. Turn gold into Mystic Coins, make clovers. Your ability to get clovers is directly correlated to the effort you put into it. Bonus: all the mats you get from the MF from creating clovers can be sold if you do not also need them for more gold to buy more Mystic Coins to make more clovers.

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  • 2 weeks later...

As a reference, after you get the one-time reward tracks out of the way, half of the pvp/wvw tracks yield no clovers. Others yield 2 upon completion. average completion time for a track (no buffs/boosts/outnumbered) is about 8 hours. That's 4hrs/clover, or 302 hours for all 77 clovers needed for one legendary.

Fractals, conversely, you can do your daily T4's in say, 30-60 minutes and get all of the materials and gold needed to buy 2 clovers from the golem. Granted, this is daily gated meaning it'd be about 2 months with just this method, but that's still ~< 30 minutes per clover + an additional 10-15 gold per day.

With that being said, I feel dungeons would still be underpopulated even if clovers were included. Fractals are a smarter choice, gold/hour wise, and if the dungeon runs had clover gain per hour scaled to match the other game modes, it'd likely not be worth the time unless you were desperate/extremely impatient.

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