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The top player has 106 wins and ONE loss? The second has 64 wins and 0 losses?

Is this some kind of manipulation or are these two players just that much better than everyone else in the game? 'Cause you'd think that just by sheer chance you couldn't win 100% of your games over that period of time. The third place one is still skewed a bit (4 losses) and everyone after that has a reasonable record for a good player.

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Players who are good mechanically and did their homework to pick strong comps can easily achieve this. The skill disparity at the very top of GW2 PvP compared to the rest of platinum and gold is enormous. They probably practice it or trial it on alt accounts as to not skew the record.

Even before HoT, it was obvious that you had maybe 20 people in each region who were just that much better. Pretty much everyone who complains about the leaderboards is unable to accept that they just aren't that good.

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@NationalNacho.5972 said:Its pretty easy to ensure wins when you + ur duo is 100% of the team comp LOL

I have like a 90+% win rate playing unoptimal comps

This is what a leader board would look like if we had 5 man ranked q's

@"Trevor Boyer.6524"

It's true ^

Would like to point out to everyone that, those wins rates are probably mostly real in 2v2, depending on what you see as "fair or unfair". There is definitely still some cheese meta gaming techniques going on, like all top 100 players queue dodging each other all of the time. But at least when your team has no slots open for random PUG joins, you can't be win traded or thrown on. Regardless of whatever is going on meta game wise, such as top players smurfing into you on alts, at least your losing that match due to actually being outplayed, rather than being win traded by PUG throws. I'm certainly not saying it is fair to alt play all day, trying to knock people who should be plat 2 down into gold 3, but hey, it's worlds better than 5 man solo/duo win trade wars, in terms of match making quality. It really is.

If Arenanet could somehow limit the amount of vast alt accounts that are in play, this 2v2 season would be perfect. It is pretty lame to see most of the top 100 slots in every season held by the same 20 people. It would be much appreciated if they'd give that stuff a break, and let some the players who actually deserve those slots be able to play into them.

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I think Trevor answered my question best - these players are at the top of the skill ladder, and would likely be at or near the top of the board anyway if they played straight up, but they are preserving unnaturally pristine w/l records through shady techniques.

Whoever XMarketeer is (and he seems like a real peach), he inadvertently reinforces this point: if you are in legendary tier, you shouldn't be racking up 100 wins against someone who's in gold 2 or whatever. Not if the matchmaker is working right and you're not doing these, um, "special" techniques for guiding it. "Farming" players of much lower skill isn't really what I imagine a competitive PvP environment to be about. But if they really are avoiding the other 19 equally skilled players to prop up a w/l record season after season, that's just sad. I get how you might do that once for the title or whatever, but what's the incentive to do this season after season?

I'm just genuinely curious about the environment at the top, it means nothing to me personally. I'm nowhere near the leaderboard and I have 0 desire to attempt to get there, let alone rank at the top.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@NationalNacho.5972 said:Its pretty easy to ensure wins when you + ur duo is 100% of the team comp LOL

I have like a 90+% win rate playing unoptimal comps

This is what a leader board would look like if we had 5 man ranked q's

It's true ^

Would like to point out to everyone that, those wins rates are probably mostly real in 2v2, depending on what you see as "fair or unfair". There is definitely still some cheese meta gaming techniques going on, like all top 100 players queue dodging each other all of the time. But at least when your team has no slots open for random PUG joins, you can't be win traded or thrown on. Regardless of whatever is going on meta game wise, such as top players smurfing into you on alts, at least your losing that match due to actually being outplayed, rather than being win traded by PUG throws. I'm certainly not saying it is fair to alt play all day, trying to knock people who should be plat 2 down into gold 3, but hey, it's worlds better than 5 man solo/duo win trade wars, in terms of match making quality. It really is.

If Arenanet could somehow limit the amount of vast alt accounts that are in play, this 2v2 season would be perfect. It is pretty lame to see most of the top 100 slots in every season held by the same 20 people. It would be much appreciated if they'd give that stuff a break, and let some the players who actually deserve those slots be able to play into them.

Yeah, 2v2 is a step up, don't get me wrong I welcome it. I enjoy 2v2. Minus certain cheese tactics, I barely get angry in games. I get MORE angry at this stupid matchmaking system. It's a complete disaster! It's a stupid relic of the "e-sports" era. Game after game, MOBA to FPS copies stupid ELO-based matchmaking and league systems. What kind of BS is it that I climbed and grinded through 70+ games from t2 silver to t1 gold only to lose all that rating and go back down to silver in 20-30 games while keeping a roughly 50/50 winrate. The matchmaking deliberately SCREWS me out of pips every chance it gets. Yeah, you can climb, but it's so much grind and BS in doing so. Meanwhile, other people get pips and don't even play as hard. What kind of a stupid system is that? It rewards you for less effort and the more you put in, the less you progress. The progress you do get just gets wiped out the more you play. So-called "skill-based matchmaking" all in the name of attracting players and making it "fair". Anyone with a brain knows that your first ten games(placements) matter the most. They make or break your season.

To this day, I can't believe people still defend this nonsense.

(PS: I've kept a constant 54% winrate for almost the whole season.)

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@JTGuevara.9018 the system isn't as bad as people make it out to be. i promise u the reason ur in silver is just because you're not as good as the peoplein plat+ are. duel them any day and you will watch them crush you. watch them stream,. preferably ones with commentary so you hear their train of thought, and you will understand the way good players think is miles ahead of everyone else.

additionally, therei s the duo factor to takeinto consideration, and i'll never in my lif eunderstand people who complain about duo: if you are soloing, you are putting yourselfinto the rng roll of whatever your duo will be. that's your ownfault, your own mistake, and therei s nobody to blame for that but you. not the system, not the population, but you. if you have a duo, you are locking in that player you are with and understanding his skill level. it isn't random rng; you know this player, and that detracts from the rng of it entirely. the system is actually VERY simple to climb with if you duo with someone good. if you and yourduo deserve to be plat, you WILL be plat, in the same way that the duos right now in legendary deserve to be there: they are the best players in the game, and the people below them are NOT. that is very simple.

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@XxMarketeerxX.4102 said:@JTGuevara.9018 the system isn't as bad as people make it out to be. i promise u the reason ur in silver is just because you're not as good as the peoplein plat+ are. duel them any day and you will watch them crush you. watch them stream,. preferably ones with commentary so you hear their train of thought, and you will understand the way good players think is miles ahead of everyone else.

additionally, therei s the duo factor to takeinto consideration, and i'll never in my lif eunderstand people who complain about duo: if you are soloing, you are putting yourselfinto the rng roll of whatever your duo will be. that's your ownfault, your own mistake, and therei s nobody to blame for that but you. not the system, not the population, but you. if you have a duo, you are locking in that player you are with and understanding his skill level. it isn't random rng; you know this player, and that detracts from the rng of it entirely. the system is actually VERY simple to climb with if you duo with someone good. if you and yourduo deserve to be plat, you WILL be plat, in the same way that the duos right now in legendary deserve to be there: they are the best players in the game, and the people below them are NOT. that is very simple.

Whatever bruh...I heard the same shit for years...you're not special.

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@JTGuevara.9018 said:

@XxMarketeerxX.4102 said:@JTGuevara.9018 the system isn't as bad as people make it out to be. i promise u the reason ur in silver is just because you're not as good as the peoplein plat+ are. duel them any day and you will watch them crush you. watch them stream,. preferably ones with commentary so you hear their train of thought, and you will understand the way good players think is miles ahead of everyone else.

additionally, therei s the duo factor to takeinto consideration, and i'll never in my lif eunderstand people who complain about duo: if you are soloing, you are putting yourselfinto the rng roll of whatever your duo will be. that's your ownfault, your own mistake, and therei s nobody to blame for that but you. not the system, not the population, but you. if you have a duo, you are locking in that player you are with and understanding his skill level. it isn't random rng; you know this player, and that detracts from the rng of it entirely. the system is actually VERY simple to climb with if you duo with someone good. if you and yourduo deserve to be plat, you WILL be plat, in the same way that the duos right now in legendary deserve to be there: they are the best players in the game, and the people below them are NOT. that is very simple.

Whatever bruh...I heard the same kitten for years...you're not special.

Well, as someone who is just average in top 100, I can tell you that fighting a Silver player is relatively stress-free. They use their dodge randomly (or not at all). They eat the whole combo without avoiding it (or even try to trade blows). They also can't seem to land their hits (press skills outside of melee range for example).

On the other hand, I've been playing against people in the top 10, and I can tell you that their mechanical skills are pretty high. My heal got interrupted often. They don't shoot into my reflection. They chain CC way too well (easily 6s of CC). Some of them use macros, but it's not like ANet would ban it.

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@JTGuevara.9018 said:

@NationalNacho.5972 said:Its pretty easy to ensure wins when you + ur duo is 100% of the team comp LOL

I have like a 90+% win rate playing unoptimal comps

This is what a leader board would look like if we had 5 man ranked q's

It's true ^

Would like to point out to everyone that, those wins rates are probably mostly real in 2v2, depending on what you see as "fair or unfair". There is definitely still some cheese meta gaming techniques going on, like all top 100 players queue dodging each other all of the time. But at least when your team has no slots open for random PUG joins, you can't be win traded or thrown on. Regardless of whatever is going on meta game wise, such as top players smurfing into you on alts, at least your losing that match due to actually being outplayed, rather than being win traded by PUG throws. I'm certainly not saying it is fair to alt play all day, trying to knock people who should be plat 2 down into gold 3, but hey, it's worlds better than 5 man solo/duo win trade wars, in terms of match making quality. It really is.

If Arenanet could somehow limit the amount of vast alt accounts that are in play, this 2v2 season would be perfect. It is pretty lame to see most of the top 100 slots in every season held by the same 20 people. It would be much appreciated if they'd give that stuff a break, and let some the players who actually deserve those slots be able to play into them.

Yeah, 2v2 is a step up, don't get me wrong I welcome it. I enjoy 2v2. Minus certain cheese tactics, I barely get angry in games. I get MORE angry at this stupid matchmaking system. It's a complete disaster! It's a stupid relic of the "e-sports" era. Game after game, MOBA to FPS copies stupid ELO-based matchmaking and league systems. What kind of BS is it that I climbed and grinded through 70+ games from t2 silver to t1 gold only to lose all that rating and go back down to silver in 20-30 games while keeping a roughly 50/50 winrate. The matchmaking deliberately SCREWS me out of pips every chance it gets. Yeah, you can climb, but it's so much grind and BS in doing so. Meanwhile, other people get pips and don't even play as hard. What kind of a stupid system is that? It rewards you for less effort and the more you put in, the less you progress. The progress you do get just gets wiped out the more you play. So-called "skill-based matchmaking" all in the name of attracting players and making it "fair". Anyone with a brain knows that your first ten games(placements) matter the most. They make or break your season.

To this day, I can't believe people
still
defend this nonsense.

(PS: I've kept a constant 54% winrate for almost the whole season.)

No one deserves wins. Blaming the matchmaker as the sole reason you're in silver is probably the reason you're in silver (in w/e games you play).

For example, when I started playing Smite I placed in like mid-gold for Ranked Joust. After a few weeks of learning how to counterbuild and farm effectively, I went straight through plat, diamond, and into masters within one season because my mechanics were already good (adc main, hitting autos and skillshots were np bc I play a lot of shooters). Long story short, there are a lot of factors that go into ranking up in games. Everything from mechanical skill, to decision-making, to rotations and game knowledge.

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well the reality is they are somewhat legit, they do have 2 or 3 max accounts extra which they are called smurfs , alts which are station on plat. they might boost their main by a little with their alt, but in reality what makes these players good is the passion and knowledge they have about PvP, they know every skills dmg, utility, cooldown and weakness to a class. The other reason is that these players will play the top strongest classes and will duo with someone who will also play a top class. Most of the classes played in plat3+ are Rev, firebrand, Necromancer, and thief.

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They're there because they earned it by being good enough to be better than everyone else, and likely by Duoing with someone close to the same skill level.

It's really up to you to interpret how much of an achievement that is based on what you know about Gw2 matchmaking and metagaming.

If the idea of two of the very best players in the game queuing together to fight a bunch of SoloQ mid-low level plats and maybe a few golds after everyone who actually plays to compete has gone to bed seems unimpressive to you, then you's woke.

What we really need are separate SoloQ/Teams ladders, where achievements like this would actually mean something. That will never happen though, because the Team people know most people SoloQ, and most of them are obviously making a killing off these merged queues so why would they want it to change?

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@NationalNacho.5972 said:Its pretty easy to ensure wins when you + ur duo is 100% of the team comp LOL

I have like a 90+% win rate playing unoptimal comps

This is what a leader board would look like if we had 5 man ranked q's

It's true ^

Would like to point out to everyone that, those wins rates are probably mostly real in 2v2, depending on what you see as "fair or unfair". There is definitely still some cheese meta gaming techniques going on, like all top 100 players queue dodging each other all of the time. But at least when your team has no slots open for random PUG joins, you can't be win traded or thrown on. Regardless of whatever is going on meta game wise, such as top players smurfing into you on alts, at least your losing that match due to actually being outplayed, rather than being win traded by PUG throws. I'm certainly not saying it is fair to alt play all day, trying to knock people who should be plat 2 down into gold 3, but hey, it's worlds better than 5 man solo/duo win trade wars, in terms of match making quality. It really is.

If Arenanet could somehow limit the amount of vast alt accounts that are in play, this 2v2 season would be perfect. It is pretty lame to see most of the top 100 slots in every season held by the same 20 people. It would be much appreciated if they'd give that stuff a break, and let some the players who actually deserve those slots be able to play into them.

Yeah, 2v2 is a step up, don't get me wrong I welcome it. I enjoy 2v2. Minus certain cheese tactics, I barely get angry in games. I get MORE angry at this stupid matchmaking system. It's a complete disaster! It's a stupid relic of the "e-sports" era. Game after game, MOBA to FPS copies stupid ELO-based matchmaking and league systems. What kind of BS is it that I climbed and grinded through 70+ games from t2 silver to t1 gold only to lose all that rating and go back down to silver in 20-30 games while keeping a roughly 50/50 winrate. The matchmaking deliberately SCREWS me out of pips every chance it gets. Yeah, you can climb, but it's so much grind and BS in doing so. Meanwhile, other people get pips and don't even play as hard. What kind of a stupid system is that? It rewards you for less effort and the more you put in, the less you progress. The progress you do get just gets wiped out the more you play. So-called "skill-based matchmaking" all in the name of attracting players and making it "fair". Anyone with a brain knows that your first ten games(placements) matter the most. They make or break your season.

To this day, I can't believe people
still
defend this nonsense.

(PS: I've kept a constant 54% winrate for almost the whole season.)

No one deserves wins. Blaming the matchmaker as the sole reason you're in silver is probably the reason you're in silver (in w/e games you play).

For example, when I started playing Smite I placed in like mid-gold for Ranked Joust. After a few weeks of learning how to counterbuild and farm effectively, I went straight through plat, diamond, and into masters within one season because my mechanics were already good (adc main, hitting autos and skillshots were np bc I play a lot of shooters). Long story short, there are a lot of factors that go into ranking up in games. Everything from mechanical skill, to decision-making, to rotations and game knowledge.> @shadowpass.4236 said:

@NationalNacho.5972 said:Its pretty easy to ensure wins when you + ur duo is 100% of the team comp LOL

I have like a 90+% win rate playing unoptimal comps

This is what a leader board would look like if we had 5 man ranked q's

It's true ^

Would like to point out to everyone that, those wins rates are probably mostly real in 2v2, depending on what you see as "fair or unfair". There is definitely still some cheese meta gaming techniques going on, like all top 100 players queue dodging each other all of the time. But at least when your team has no slots open for random PUG joins, you can't be win traded or thrown on. Regardless of whatever is going on meta game wise, such as top players smurfing into you on alts, at least your losing that match due to actually being outplayed, rather than being win traded by PUG throws. I'm certainly not saying it is fair to alt play all day, trying to knock people who should be plat 2 down into gold 3, but hey, it's worlds better than 5 man solo/duo win trade wars, in terms of match making quality. It really is.

If Arenanet could somehow limit the amount of vast alt accounts that are in play, this 2v2 season would be perfect. It is pretty lame to see most of the top 100 slots in every season held by the same 20 people. It would be much appreciated if they'd give that stuff a break, and let some the players who actually deserve those slots be able to play into them.

Yeah, 2v2 is a step up, don't get me wrong I welcome it. I enjoy 2v2. Minus certain cheese tactics, I barely get angry in games. I get MORE angry at this stupid matchmaking system. It's a complete disaster! It's a stupid relic of the "e-sports" era. Game after game, MOBA to FPS copies stupid ELO-based matchmaking and league systems. What kind of BS is it that I climbed and grinded through 70+ games from t2 silver to t1 gold only to lose all that rating and go back down to silver in 20-30 games while keeping a roughly 50/50 winrate. The matchmaking deliberately SCREWS me out of pips every chance it gets. Yeah, you can climb, but it's so much grind and BS in doing so. Meanwhile, other people get pips and don't even play as hard. What kind of a stupid system is that? It rewards you for less effort and the more you put in, the less you progress. The progress you do get just gets wiped out the more you play. So-called "skill-based matchmaking" all in the name of attracting players and making it "fair". Anyone with a brain knows that your first ten games(placements) matter the most. They make or break your season.

To this day, I can't believe people
still
defend this nonsense.

(PS: I've kept a constant 54% winrate for almost the whole season.)

No one deserves wins. Blaming the matchmaker as the sole reason you're in silver is probably the reason you're in silver (in w/e games you play).

For example, when I started playing Smite I placed in like mid-gold for Ranked Joust. After a few weeks of learning how to counterbuild and farm effectively, I went straight through plat, diamond, and into masters within one season because my mechanics were already good (adc main, hitting autos and skillshots were np bc I play a lot of shooters). Long story short, there are a lot of factors that go into ranking up in games. Everything from mechanical skill, to decision-making, to rotations and game knowledge.

BS. All of it.

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@JTGuevara.9018 said:

@NationalNacho.5972 said:Its pretty easy to ensure wins when you + ur duo is 100% of the team comp LOL

I have like a 90+% win rate playing unoptimal comps

This is what a leader board would look like if we had 5 man ranked q's

It's true ^

Would like to point out to everyone that, those wins rates are probably mostly real in 2v2, depending on what you see as "fair or unfair". There is definitely still some cheese meta gaming techniques going on, like all top 100 players queue dodging each other all of the time. But at least when your team has no slots open for random PUG joins, you can't be win traded or thrown on. Regardless of whatever is going on meta game wise, such as top players smurfing into you on alts, at least your losing that match due to actually being outplayed, rather than being win traded by PUG throws. I'm certainly not saying it is fair to alt play all day, trying to knock people who should be plat 2 down into gold 3, but hey, it's worlds better than 5 man solo/duo win trade wars, in terms of match making quality. It really is.

If Arenanet could somehow limit the amount of vast alt accounts that are in play, this 2v2 season would be perfect. It is pretty lame to see most of the top 100 slots in every season held by the same 20 people. It would be much appreciated if they'd give that stuff a break, and let some the players who actually deserve those slots be able to play into them.

What kind of a stupid system is that? It rewards you for less effort and the more you put in, the less you progress.

Yup, that's really the meat of the problem. You actually get punished for being a person with good sportsmanship who just plays the way that you'd expect the game to played. What I mean is, if I sign in at oh saaaay reset time NA prime time, and just start solo queue with absolutely no regard to who else is queueing at the time, you get slapped down out of your rating for so many reasons, concerning meta game tactics. However, if I signed in with my best duo partner at an odd time, and had every top player added to my contacts as well as identified alts, and we were really really careful with when we queued, to the point that we sit and wait for 30 minutes or 45 minutes or sometimes even an hour at a time before hitting the queue button as we sit offline, then we could ride into plat 2+ range.

But is that worth it? I mean, it's kind of disappointing to log in and be online for 3 or 4 hours but only actually play 2 or 3 games. But yeah, the way the pvp season is set up, it really does reward inactivity and free meta gaming.

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The best players playing the best stuff. Pretty much every player on NA in the top 30 or so got there on firebrand and condi rev and some necro while they were strong. Even after the patch with things more balanced these classes are still good and these same players win. Good players just win when its 2v2s. They dont have to play meme specs they just have to counter yours and that's all there is to it. A great duo might get memed for a round once in awhile but since it's best 2 out of 3 they can just adapt and take the set. Nothing really shady about it.

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Knowing what to play and how and when to q has more to do with rank than skill. You can win vs clearly better player when you play one of the meta comps. All you need to do is to q dodge everyone you know is equally carried by build/ comp than you but also better than you and you get top 20+ easy by farming worse player on same comps and clearly better ppl who have some false sense of honor and play less carrying stuff for no good reason. Even when you take out wintrading from the formular the lb has a pretty low correlation to playerskill (same in conquest), it is simply too easy to abuse the mm with low population and build wars even without breaking rules.

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Of course there is some kind of shenanigans going on.1st, there is only one account with the "perfect" ratio, where as if NOTHING remotely suss was going on, there would HAVE to be 2 (the duo partner).2nd, the zero losses, is kinda suspicious. The only caveat, that IS THE BEST player in the game, to the point that no matter who they face out of the apparently only 20 really good players in the game, they will still win. VS rank 2, no prob, win. VS rank 3, no prob, win etc.

Note, I'm not arguing that players at the top of the leaderboards arent better than the rest. But in a perfect system, the top 20 or so players would just be playing each other over and over. But there is 24 hrs in a day, so always the chance those 20 players play at completely different times to each other, and therefore HAVE to play against the rest of us plebs with the small brains that cant even comprehend the majesty of these top players.

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@"Thorstienn.1642" said:Of course there is some kind of shenanigans going on.1st, there is only one account with the "perfect" ratio, where as if NOTHING remotely suss was going on, there would HAVE to be 2 (the duo partner).2nd, the zero losses, is kinda suspicious. The only caveat, that IS THE BEST player in the game, to the point that no matter who they face out of the apparently only 20 really good players in the game, they will still win. VS rank 2, no prob, win. VS rank 3, no prob, win etc.

Note, I'm not arguing that players at the top of the leaderboards arent better than the rest. But in a perfect system, the top 20 or so players would just be playing each other over and over. But there is 24 hrs in a day, so always the chance those 20 players play at completely different times to each other, and therefore HAVE to play against the rest of us plebs with the small brains that cant even comprehend the majesty of these top players.

Its really not hard for 20 people (10 teams) to just queue at different times over the course of several days before decay kicks in. All you need is like 45 minutes to get your wins and log off.

Then given that some of these top 10 accounts are alts and the same like 3 or 4 people only queue together that makes it even easier.

The top people choose not to play each other. It's not worth it because when one team loses they lose like 40 rank points but a win only gains like 2.

The only reason Flysofar lost a game was because he DC'd for 2 rounds. Won then.next 2. Then legitimately lost the 3rd. it has been a true Bo5 he would've won.

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