Lack of instructions for New Players

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

while i understand the development team is limited to what they can put in game. can we at least acknowledge that players dont know mostly how to access each types of chats because there is no tutorial for this, parties, squads etc?

i have to tell players all the time that are new how to talk in party, why they cant whisper etc. can we also give them mail when creating a new toon about phishing attempts and who is and is not a GM in game? new players are the ones that usually dont know who is who.

[Danikat.8537]

I have to admit that's a new one to me. I've encountered a lot of problems with new players not knowing how things work (many of them because I was new and didn't know how things worked) but not people having trouble changing chat channels. It certainly couldn't hurt to explain it somewhere, but I'm not sure where you could put that information that would make sense and be easily found.

As for the phishing attempts they kind of do address this already. All mail that is not from Anet has a message at the bottom saying "Note: This message was sent by another player. It was not sent by the Guild Wars 2 Team." and all messages which are from Anet have their logo instead of the normal mail icon.

[Boysenberry.1869]

I think a lot of game developers assume their player-base has played a lot of games and just kind of instinctively know how to do/find certain things. It's probably hard for a developer or frequent gamer to even think of certain things that new gamers might not automatically know.

[Danikat.8537]

@Boysenberry.1869 said:I think a lot of game developers assume their player-base has played a lot of games and just kind of instinctively know how to do/find certain things. It's probably hard for a developer or frequent gamer to even think of certain things that new gamers might not automatically know.

I think you're right.

For one crazy example when I first started GW2 I didn't know how to move my character. Even though W,A,S,D is fairly universal, by some weird fluke it had been years since I'd played a PC game that didn't allow some form of click-to-move and I always used that, so at first I was totally thrown by not having that option. It didn't help that for months I'd been reading about how 'quests' in GW2 were different and if an NPC says centaurs are attacking the town that means they're attacking right now and will not wait for you to be ready to stop them...then I get into the game and I'm told centaurs are attacking the town and I need to go help right now!

I figured it out fairly quickly and not long after discovered/was told (I don't remember which) that you can move by holding down both mouse buttons, which is my preferred method, combined with auto-run. So it wasn't a big problem, but it does go to show how literally even the most basic things can confuse people, depending on their prior experience. (And of course now you get a pop-up telling you to use W,A,S,D to move.)

(I also learned that Shaemoor and those centaurs aren't going anywhere and I've got plenty of time to collect my golem banker, use a level scroll, collect all the level up rewards, change my skins and dyes, pick a title and guild to rep and everything else before I....run right past the town to skip ahead to the end of the "tutorial".)

The problem is that it's also not easy to teach everything every player may not know within the game, at least not without boring and alienating all the ones who do already know or can work things out themselves, and potentially even the ones who don't know. GW1 had pretty comprehensive tutorials but people would still end up not knowing basic things because they skipped it or didn't pay attention or forgot. I played it every time I made a new character and I made a lot of characters but even so I can't say I paid full attention every time and I'm sure I forgot some stuff. Hell, earlier today I forgot what day of the week it is, so remembering all the details of all the games I play is pretty optimistic.

[LadySilverHand.6841]

A pop up during the starting tutorial, pointed at the chat box, would do wonders. Could also have it be among the various things listed in an early on level up screen, as something that can be clicked for more information. It was about 8 months of steady play before I figured out all the ways I can customize and use the chat box.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

i really wish this was addressed with some devs that made the tutorial :/ so much time of the game is wasted trying to explain how to type to a friend and how to change channel types when its not necessary if theyd just implement a small tutorial

[Mrs Lana.2506]

Not just lack of instructions for newbies, there's honestly a massive lack of information in-game. As a standalone information source without the wiki or the forums or reddit, etc, a player will not be able to find information out about break bars (hell, they don't even have a name in-game), what a CC is, what skills are in Death/Reaper Shroud or Celestial Avatar, etc without asking in a guild or map chat.

Honestly the things I've mentioned above are some of the easiest things in the world to understand, but for someone who has never heard of CC, or even never played an MMO, these really need to be explained in-game - and not just by other players.

When starting the game out many a year back I was irritated that I couldn't see what skills I had in Death Shroud without wasting the Life Force. We still don't have a way to see what skills are in there, what burst skills are on Warrior, or CA for Druid, even though there is a comprehensive list of what skills you have available for utilities and what skills are tied with which weapons. It's been 5 years and almost 2 expacs later, and we still don't have these most basic things in the game.

I think the devs are expecting that older players will help out newer players (which is great to do, but we all don't always have time for it), or they're assuming that everyone knows about and can access the wiki (though I've heard that it's inaccessible in some countries). Hell, I've been playing since release and I still can't get a straight answer in-game. They always tell me to go look at an exterior source of info.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

@Miss Lana.5276 said:Not just lack of instructions for newbies, there's honestly a massive lack of information in-game. As a standalone information source without the wiki or the forums or reddit, etc, a player will not be able to find information out about break bars (kitten, they don't even have a name in-game), what a CC is, what skills are in Death/Reaper Shroud or Celestial Avatar, etc without asking in a guild or map chat.

Honestly the things I've mentioned above are some of the easiest things in the world to understand, but for someone who has never heard of CC, or even never played an MMO, these really need to be explained in-game - and not just by other players.

When starting the game out many a year back I was irritated that I couldn't see what skills I had in Death Shroud without wasting the Life Force. We still don't have a way to see what skills are in there, what burst skills are on Warrior, or CA for Druid, even though there is a comprehensive list of what skills you have available for utilities and what skills are tied with which weapons. It's been 5 years and almost 2 expacs later, and we still don't have these most basic things in the game.

I think the devs are expecting that older players will help out newer players (which is great to do, but we all don't always have time for it), or they're assuming that everyone knows about and can access the wiki (though I've heard that it's inaccessible in some countries). kitten, I've been playing since release and I still can't get a straight answer in-game. They always tell me to go look at an exterior source of info.

not only this but when looking for a build people just refer you to a metabattle site and its not really helpful at all, nor does it encourage originality

[Llethander.3972]

I dunno, I always thought it was pretty intuitive even without a tutorial on how to chat.

/s[ay]/p[arty]/g[uild]1-5/m[ap]/[squa]d/t[eam]/w[hisper] playername message

In addition to all of this you can type /wiki at any time in game to open a browser straight to the wiki where you can find pretty much any answer you're looking for.

For example:/wiki chat commands

That will open the wiki directly to this webpage: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chat_command

Granted, the /wiki command isn't what I would call an obvious feature, to be sure. There are some things that could be better explained, I suppose, but, as I recall, the game starts with the most necessary of tutorial features for players who have never played a PC shooter or MMO (ie. movement commands and the like).

[Mrs Lana.2506]

@Llethander.3972 said:I dunno, I always thought it was pretty intuitive even without a tutorial on how to chat.

For those of us who often play games and have a history of gaming, yeah what you've said makes sense, but to newbies it isn't intuitive.

I don't think there should be a tutorial on how to chat, but at least there should be a window popup (much like the "Use WASD to move!" popup during the new character tutorial) showing where the major options and channels are. Some indicator would be good.

[Llethander.3972]

@"Miss Lana.5276" said:

For those of us who often play games and have a history of gaming, yeah what you've said makes sense, but to newbies it isn't intuitive.

I don't think there should be a tutorial on how to chat, but at least there should be a window popup (much like the "Use WASD to move!" popup during the new character tutorial) showing where the major options and channels are. Some indicator would be good.

But the existence of the Extended Online Manual, which is also on the wiki, pretty much covers that. I found it by Google searching for "GW2 instruction manual".

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Extended_Online_Manual

This link contains a link to the Graphical User Interface explanation:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Graphical_user_interface

Which, in turn, has a link to the Chat Commands:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chat_panel

I am sorely reminded of the days when instruction manuals were provided with the purchase of games. I honestly wish they were still a thing instead of expecting the players to either figure it out or go hunting on their own. I don't disagree that a more in depth in-game UI-guide would be a good idea as it most assuredly would. The in-game tutorial is about as bare-bones as it could possibly be, sadly.

Though I would also point out that in the GW2 launcher there is a link that says "Learn to Play Guild Wars 2 with our Online Manual" and links here which, in the resources section, has a link to the wiki and explains the /wiki command: https://manual.guildwars2.com/en

That said, though, it's not as if there aren't ways of easily finding the information for those that want to know.

[SunTzu.4513]

@Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

@Miss Lana.5276 said:Not just lack of instructions for newbies, there's honestly a massive lack of information in-game. As a standalone information source without the wiki or the forums or reddit, etc, a player will not be able to find information out about break bars (kitten, they don't even have a

name

in-game), what a CC is, what skills are in Death/Reaper Shroud or Celestial Avatar, etc without asking in a guild or map chat.

Honestly the things I've mentioned above are some of the easiest things in the world to understand, but for someone who has never heard of CC, or even never played an MMO, these really need to be explained in-game - and not just by other players.

When starting the game out many a year back I was irritated that I couldn't see what skills I had in Death Shroud without wasting the Life Force. We still don't have a way to see what skills are in there, what burst skills are on Warrior, or CA for Druid, even though there is a comprehensive list of what skills you have available for utilities and what skills are tied with which weapons. It's been 5 years and almost 2 expacs later, and we still don't have these

most basic

things in the game.

I think the devs are expecting that older players will help out newer players (which is great to do, but we all don't always have time for it), or they're assuming that everyone knows about and can access the wiki (though I've heard that it's inaccessible in some countries). kitten, I've been playing since release and I still can't get a straight answer in-game. They always tell me to go look at an exterior source of info.

not only this but when looking for a build people just refer you to a metabattle site and its not really helpful at all, nor does it encourage originality

True Story. Breakbars an other ''advanced'' mechaniks should have an ingame tutorial. It's ridiculous how often, even advanced players, don't know how breakbars works, and wich skills are good for breaking it. Imo they could really easy do this. Just add a golem instance with a breakbar golem and some advice/tutoboxes.

[Danikat.8537]

Wow, I completely forgot that this game had a manual!

I knew GW1 did because I remember reading it while downloading the game over my agonisingly slow internet connection. I think I'd read the whole thing through and gone back to re-read some sections, and decided my first character would be a ranger/ele before the game downloaded.

[Ojimaru.8970]

@Miss Lana.5276 said:When starting the game out many a year back I was irritated that I couldn't see what skills I had in Death Shroud without wasting the Life Force. We still don't have a way to see what skills are in there, what burst skills are on Warrior, or CA for Druid, even though there is a comprehensive list of what skills you have available for utilities and what skills are tied with which weapons. It's been 5 years and almost 2 expacs later, and we still don't have these most basic things in the game.

Not event that. To this day, the weapon skill descriptions in the Hero Panel doesn't even show the different chain attacks for weapon Skill #1.

[Fallesafe.5932]

@Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:while i understand the development team is limited to what they can put in game. can we at least acknowledge that players dont know mostly how to access each types of chats because there is no tutorial for this, parties, squads etc?

i have to tell players all the time that are new how to talk in party, why they cant whisper etc. can we also give them mail when creating a new toon about phishing attempts and who is and is not a GM in game? new players are the ones that usually dont know who is who.

I've been playing MMOs since 1997 (UO > EQ > WoW). And this is one of the least documented games I've ever played. I found it amazing how hard it was for me to find the most basic info as a new player to this game. I've basically gotten all of my questions answered. But some of them took some real digging. So yea... I'm sympathetic to your point. Sometimes, you've just gotta work to figure stuff out..

[LadySilverHand.6841]

@Fallesafe.5932 said:I've been playing MMOs since 1997 (UO > EQ > WoW). And this is one of the least documented games I've ever played. I found it amazing how hard it was for me to find the most basic info as a new player to this game. I've basically gotten all of my questions answered. But some of them took some real digging..

I second this.

[ayeniss.8190]

When I have started playing GW2 I was like "I don't know anything, but time I will get to know things" since theres no pop up beginner's guide as it was in Aion. For me this was unsual, as Aion also an NCSoft game, I thought I will have to tap the "Do not show this to me anymore" panel here too because it will kill me with the gigahigh sound which the instructor talks on. (In Aion, at first I almost fell down from the chair because the sound was so high volumed at the beginners panel, I even heard it on the other end of my room from the earphones.)In Aion theres a 8-10 page quick instruction how to char, use things, move, jump and so on.I would really would like to see that here too, or maybe some advice that "oh hey, you can level up at other map too" or some future things like "at level 6/7/8 you can visit the local person to learn how to dodge" or "at level 10 you will be able to get access to the Human city centre" etc.

in rows:

• chat use
• level forecast - reachable things (maps, skills, abilities)
• information about the possible maps to level on
• world bosses or meta events on actual maps ( I know about it on the HoT maps, but on lower maps could be too - i mean for example Svanir Shaman on Norn beginner map - or season 3 maps so we don't need to tab out to our browser ot look it up)

[Aemeteriis.3874]

On the topic of break bars, they do have tutorialization; The break bar has a symbol on it you can hover which has a corresponding symbol on their buff bar, hover the buff it tells you what the buff is, Just because its not OVERT doesn't mean it isn't there. If you aren't curious enough to go "What's this symbol that hasn't been on ANY OTHER MOB" that's not on anet its on you.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Aemeteriis.3874
general typographic edits

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

2 hours ago, Aemeteriis.3874 said:

On the topic of break bars, they do have tutorialization; The break bar has a symbol on it you can hover which has a corresponding symbol on their buff bar, hover the buff it tells you what the buff is, Just because its not OVERT doesn't mean it isn't there. If you aren't curious enough to go "What's this symbol that hasn't been on ANY OTHER MOB" that's not on anet its on you.

They probably figured it out after 3 years....

[Arrys.7145]

Why do google's job....  Fan's always do it better and they have for this game as well.  Why spend developer resources on something player always do for themselves no matter what efforts the developer makes?

 

One of the positives of the gamer ecosystem is that there is always several someone's who prioritize profiting off explaining the game. 

 

 

[Remnar.1026]

There is UI and UX. UX being User eXperience and it has become it's own science apart from UI. BDO also had bad UX, so much so I bitched about it often as I tried their 30 day trial. I dropped that game and here now though. I also noticed there isn't really much up to date info for this game. A lot of you tube stuff is 2 - 8 years old. Arenanet needs to update this game to be more modern; technically and design wise. I'm surprised there isn't a built in way to find guilds. Gotta do that on this forum. The guild(s) I joined have been helpful to me as a returning player. I still am still learning things like I'm a newb.