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Jormag's Story with New Expac Reveal


Poormany.4507

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With the new expac reveal pretty much revealing Cantha as the next expac, what do people think it will mean for Jormag's story? It would seem really rushed if Jormag's killed off in less than a season, so I'm guessing his threat prediction may be true. What do y'all think? How will Jormag's story be transitioned into Cantha?

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As hyped as I am for the expansion.. freaking CANTHA!!!! AHHHHH!!!Ahem, composure.. sanity.. ok, I'm good :D

I expect it will be a good while before we actually get to play the expansion, very late this year at the earliest is a prediction I've been seeing but I highly doubt we'll be playing it until Q2-3 next year at the earliest.

Frankly I do not mind the wait, the longer the development time for Cantha the bigger and better it will be when it does come out.Gw2's had a bit of a hit/miss relationship with expansions, one of the main criticisms being that they're kind of small... So I am hoping that this expansion is going to be that big traditional expansion that so many of us have been wanting for many years now ^^

That doesn't mean that Cantha is completely off the table till the expansion though, there's no reason the living world can't take us there first and set us up on Shing Jea Island before the expansion drops which then opens up a huge amount of the mainland for us to explore.

I expect we'll be playing Icebrood saga for a good while yet, and probably another season of living world after it that will setup the expansion.I am completely fine with that personally, Just knowing that another expansion is coming and it's taking me back to my favourite region in Gw1 is more than enough to keep me interested and excited for upcoming Gw2 content ^^

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Episodes 3/4 will take place in Woodland Cascades, which pretty much makes a 100% confirmation that ArenaNet is just revisiting EotN areas, and not taking us anywhere new. This would suggest Episode 5/6 and 7/8 maps will be in Varajar Fells, Norrheart Domains, Battledepths, and Ice Cliff Chasm, most likely.

Assuming that the expansion takes place at the end of Icebrood Saga, and not that we'll have a Season 6 inbetween, then here's my theories:

Theory One: We find a way to put Jormag back to sleep, either in the form of forcing it or an agreement. Then we learn that the DSD has attacked Cantha and they're asking for our assistance. AKA the boring theory.

Theory Two: Jormag isn't "dealt with" at all, but reveals to us the nature of the new threat on the horizons: a new Elder Dragon has risen, one that replaces both Zhaitan and Mordremoth in ways that shouldn't be possible, it rivals all remaining Elder Dragons, and it is sending its forces to Tyria for conquest. Jormag gives us an ultimatum: we agree to an alliance, or it sits back and watches us in our inevitable failure because Aurene, having gained so much magic that Joko's pitiful amount was utterly subsumed, is no longer immortal. Jormag wants the cycle to end one way or another, and will be satisfied with death through Aurene's failure if we refuse to cooperate. Being stubborn dumbasses that the Commander is, we refuse, and Jormag wakes from the ice and takes its forces back north. Then the threat appears: an armada of ships depicting the emblem of a dragon empire, all its sailors augmented by strange energies that mix shadow, star, and mind together. Kuunavang has become an Elder Dragon and has conquered the Canthan empire as the new Elder Celestial Dragon.

@Teratus.2859 said:I expect it will be a good while before we actually get to play the expansion, very late this year at the earliest is a prediction I've been seeing but I highly doubt we'll be playing it until Q2-3 next year at the earliest.

We have confirmation of 8 episodes, with Episode 3 coming Mid-May more or less.Even if we make a very optimistic view of Mid-April, we're looking at 12 months after for the rest of Icebrood Saga. Mid-April at the absolute earliest.

But I suspect we'll get more Visions of the Past, either between every map, between every third episode, or between every two maps. Short case scenario, we'll see the expansion in Mid-July 2021. Long case scenario, Mid-November 2021.

That doesn't mean that Cantha is completely off the table till the expansion though, there's no reason the living world can't take us there first and set us up on Shing Jea Island before the expansion drops which then opens up a huge amount of the mainland for us to explore.I highly doubt this. LW Seasons are always rushed, and with our back and forth between Bangar and Jormag, so will Icebrood Saga. More so if the last two episodes' shared map ends up being a completely different plot. That would mean we only have one map after Woodland Cascades to deal with Bangar and Jormag entirely.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Episodes 3/4 will take place in Woodland Cascades, which pretty much makes a 100% confirmation that ArenaNet is just revisiting EotN areas, and not taking us anywhere new. This would suggest Episode 5/6 and 7/8 maps will be in Varajar Fells, Norrheart Domains, Battledepths, and Ice Cliff Chasm, most likely.I think this theory forgets that the trailer for Visions of the Past shows off a new map(we can even see a strike mission portal behind one of the new Steel Warband characters,) which makes it unlikely that the map is just an instance for the visions. This map will likely get its own portal scroll, and its pretty likely we are going to get a portal scroll for the tome for the Eye of the North, much like how Sun's Refuge got one as well. I doubt there will be an episode 7/8.

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There was once something stated to be worse slumbering in cantha, worse than the elder dragons and worse than anything we know of that resides on tyria. Perhaps jormag is speaking of that? This thing was related to the leviathans that resided on the island, It was said whatever was tied to them they would be something horrifying and potentially cataclysmic.

Perhaps Kanaxai could play a role, or even the stone forest and the Oni? Perhaps jormag is warrning us the threat is coming from cantha and THAT is what it intends to protect all of us from "I can freeze the sea, I can set you free and keep you from sinking into the depths" was the vibe I got from the announcement trailer for the saga. So My bet is something in the jade sea is what jormag is talking about.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:There was once something stated to be worse slumbering in cantha, worse than the elder dragons and worse than anything we know of that resides on tyria. Perhaps jormag is speaking of that? This thing was related to the leviathans that resided on the island, It was said whatever was tied to them they would be something horrifying and potentially cataclysmic.

I don't recall anything of the sort. There has been pretty much zero lore on Cantha beyond isolationism and xenophobia for the entirety of GW2 lore. So chances are you're either thinking of something else, or heard player speculation. There's definitely no lore about the Leviathans being anything other than just giant sea wurms.

A long, long time ago, there were players who thought, for some reason, that the deep sea dragon was hibernating in The Deep of the Jade Sea, though this got disproven pretty much before it came to be.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:There was once something stated to be worse slumbering in cantha, worse than the elder dragons and worse than anything we know of that resides on tyria. Perhaps jormag is speaking of that? This thing was related to the leviathans that resided on the island, It was said whatever was tied to them they would be something horrifying and potentially cataclysmic.

I don't recall anything of the sort. There has been pretty much zero lore on Cantha beyond isolationism and xenophobia for the entirety of GW2 lore. So chances are you're either thinking of something else, or heard player speculation. There's definitely no lore about the Leviathans being anything other than just giant sea wurms.

A long, long time ago, there were players who thought, for some reason, that the deep sea dragon was hibernating in The Deep of the Jade Sea, though this got disproven pretty much before it came to be.

Could be the emperor of the source of his power. We know he hates ANYTHING not human and it could also give credence to bangars fears due the racism and hatred as well power of the emperor and the type of other worldly powers he posseses. (Shiro was unworthy, and not a proper vessel for it so he didn't retain all the power and his death alone devestated cantha. Now imagine a proper vessel and one who could wield it properly becoming an enemy.)

To be fair you're probably right about the origin of where my initial thought came from, I am concerned however that they will make this nartuo Weeaboo land and not the cantha I remember( The place I started my journey.) Hopefully they can do it justice... unlike how they've handled this saga thus far.

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It was Usoku who was xenophobic. Usoku should be long dead by now, given he reigned 200 years before GW2. The current emperor should be his grandson (or son who's 100+ years old at best).

"Shiro's power" that caused the Jade Wind was an annual blessing from Dwayna that the Canthan Emperors use to benefit the Canthan harvests. Shiro used dark rituals (no doubt guided by Abaddon's teachings) to twist that blessing into power which would turn into the Jade Wind when he unleashed his death wail (he tried to cause another one at the end of Factions, but the acolytes of Suun intercepted the spellcasting and turned it in on Shiro himself). There wasn't anything that Shiro was unworthy about - it got unleashed because Shiro chose to unleash it in his final moments (the first time, he was nearly cut in half by Archemorus and Saint Viktor before unleashing the Jade Wind - his death was guaranteed at that point).

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Honestly I'm in a bit of agreement with Konig, Jormag likely knows something and possibly could 'convince' us to break away from chasing him down for a time to deal with DSD.I like to imagine Jormag of Ice and DSD of Water might not actually get along too well. At least that's what I speculate, Jormag needs our help since DSD has been effectively uncontested in Canthan territory.I could toss out theories all day but I don't think Arenanet would rush killing another ED in a living story so quickly.

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:The Visions of the Past maps are story instances, not open world.Then explain this shot in the trailereUJ7k5Q.png

We can clearly see a Strike Mission portal behind one of the Steel Warband characters during the trailer. Are you suggesting there is going to be a strike mission, a group experience, inside a story instance you could play alone? How would that even work? You go into a story instance... to go into a raid?

This would also add up with what That_Shaman posted some time ago that Anet made changes to the landscape OUTSIDE the Eye of the North, in areas we cant normally see. If this release was just the EoTN base, there would be no reason to make those changes as we would still be unable to go outside. This makes it likely there will be some sort of new map area to explore in/around the Eye, and not just the EoTN getting turned into a base, and some instanced story missions.

And it would fit with this shot in the trailerFGMwp7A.png

where we see the player characters standing in front of a Wolf shrine, that doesn't appear to be anywhere currently in the game I can think off of the top of my head, sporting some of the new armor.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:For reference, when Season 4's scroll was found, Sun's Refuge was marked as "Season 4Episode 4 Suns Refuge" - if they did have plans for EotN I imagine it'd have been labeled "Season 5 Episode 2 EotN". https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPc9YLKXUAENuGf?format=png&name=smallThis is actually incorrect. I remember this specifically, when that_shaman originally data-mined the portal tome, it listed 7 episodes, it was only later, after Suns Refuge came out, that they changed the listing of one of said episodes to the Suns' Refuge. Anet isn't that stupid as to spoil something like sun's refuge or EoTN before it officially announces, especially when they know the tomes get mined.

As I recall, we even had a discussion about this when it did change, because you already felt 7 episodes was too short, and were even more disappointed there was only actually going to be 6.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324 said:The second screen is in Cragstead, @Sajuuk Khar.1509Touche.

Still, the first pic has a strike portal in it, doesn't make sense they would have a strike portal inside something that is a story mission instance.

It might be how you access the ls1 scrying stuff and it’s avreuse if assets although that seems a bit jarring

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@"Randulf.7614" said:It might be how you access the ls1 scrying stuff and it’s avreuse if assets although that seems a bit jarringI would presume you would access the LWS1 stuff either through the pool itself, or it becomes part of the story journal.

Having to go into one of these "vision of the past" story missions, where you play as one of the charr characters, to enter a separate story instance to play the LWS1 stuff, doesn't make sense.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:The Visions of the Past maps are story instances, not open world.Then explain this shot in the trailer
eUJ7k5Q.png

We can clearly see a Strike Mission portal behind one of the Steel Warband characters during the trailer. Are you suggesting there is going to be a strike mission, a group experience, inside a story instance you could play alone? How would that even work? You go into a story instance... to go into a raid?

We are told there is a "public mission" which is Ryland and his warband's recruits. Which that screenshot is clearly depicting.

That's likely the entry/exit to that mission, using the Strikes portal for whatever reason.

Public Mission: Join the Steel WarbandMeet Ryland Steelcatcher’s companions and accompany them on a high-stakes mission to battle the Ancient Forgeman. Best of all, your job is to blow stuff to smithereens with a cutting-edge charr tank.

Since it's a public mission, it will no doubt have a means to leave. A portal is the perfect method.

This would also add up with what That_Shaman posted some time ago that Anet made changes to the landscape OUTSIDE the Eye of the North, in areas we cant normally see. If this release was just the EoTN base, there would be no reason to make those changes as we would still be unable to go outside. This makes it likely there will be some sort of new map area to explore in/around the Eye, and not just the EoTN getting turned into a base, and some instanced story missions.

Or the hub will include the outside of the base, like being able to go to Gwen's garden. None of that implies a full blown map. Especially since nothing in the trailer looks like Ice Cliff Chasm - it's either shots of S1 instances (that second image, as stated, is Cragstead) or are part of the Ryland missions.

Even if we do assume that there is an open world map, it is very clear that the portal in your first screenshot is not Ice Cliff Chasm but in charr territory. At best, if we get a new map - or a second hub for the new public mission - it'll be connected to Grothmar.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:For reference, when Season 4's scroll was found, Sun's Refuge was marked as "Season 4Episode 4 Suns Refuge" - if they did have plans for EotN I imagine it'd have been labeled "Season 5 Episode 2 EotN".
This is actually incorrect. I remember this specifically, when that_shaman originally data-mined the portal tome, it listed 7 episodes, it was only later, after Suns Refuge came out, that they changed the listing of one of said episodes to the Suns' Refuge. Anet isn't that stupid as to spoil something like sun's refuge or EoTN before it officially announces, especially when they know the tomes get mined.

That_shaman actually only said "something, something, seven" in relation to the Season 4 portal tome. He never listed how they were described in the dat.

As I recall, we even had a discussion about this when it did change, because you already felt 7 episodes was too short, and were even more disappointed there was only actually going to be 6.Ironically enough, our positions on the last discussion was reversed, where I didn't trust them to have put all entries in immediately. Whereas now you're the one saying they didn't.

And it should be noted that ArenaNet explicitly stated they had no portal stone/scroll plans as of the Friday after Episode 2! Which means there would be no entry in the dat because there was no plans for such an entry even days after the release.

If such an entry was added, it was added after Episode 2's launch, meaning after that_shaman's blog post, and he hasn't made mention of it being updated.

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:That's likely the entry/exit to that mission, using the Strikes portal for whatever reason.That, again, makes little sense. If its an instanced public mission, why does it have an Asuran waypoint in it?pLmXY7e.pngWaypoints generally don't appear in missions. Instead they just use some convenient "safe" spot as a reload spot if you die. An Asuran waypoint suggests you can just transport to this area normally like any other, which would mean the map exists outside of just the instanced story missions.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Even if we do assume that there is an open world map, it is very clear that the portal in your first screenshot is not Ice Cliff Chasm but in charr territory. At best, if we get a new map - or a second hub for the new public mission - it'll be connected to Grothmar.Being connected to Grothmar doesn't change much TBH. We already saw how big of a map they were willing to make for a simple prologue chapter, that they didn't even consider a full episode.

We see shots of both Charr areas, and deep mountain areas with Dwarven ruins, in the trailer, making a Bound by Blood sized map would allow them to easily fit both topographies we see in the trailer, as well ass include the EoTN.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:That's likely the entry/exit to that mission, using the Strikes portal for whatever reason.That, again, makes little sense. If its an instanced public mission, why does it have an Asuran waypoint in it?-snip image-Waypoints generally don't appear in missions. Instead they just use some convenient "safe" spot as a reload spot if you die. An Asuran waypoint suggests you can just transport to this area normally like any other, which would mean the map exists outside of just the instanced story missions.

And yet, that shot is very clearly of the public mission, because the shot shows a member of the Steel Warband.

Keep in mind this is not a strike mission. It doesn't have to play by the rule of strike missions, or that of raids. Nor are these story missions. And waypoints do exist in dungeons, so they're not "never inside group instances" either.

This is a brand new style of content, which means they'll use brand new rules to them. Given that this is clearly a lengthy mission - as shown by how we got shots of both Charr territory and shiverpeak areas - it'd not unlikely to be using waypoints. Raids didn't need waypoints because they had rifts from the mastery; strikes don't need them because they are so tiny; story missions don't use them because archaic spaghetti code.

But none of that means these new instances cannot, let alone won't, use them.

Nothing says it's a new map, nothing we've been told says new map. And the shot you keep referencing shows a historical NPC within the mission that is viewing past events. So unless they make an entire map that is purely based in past events - which, imo, is very unlikely but not impossible - then this isn't a new map that's coming out with zero mention or hint of such.

Being connected to Grothmar doesn't change much TBH. We already saw how big of a map they were willing to make for a simple prologue chapter, that they didn't even consider a full episode.

We see shots of both Charr areas, and deep mountain areas with Dwarven ruins, in the trailer, making a Bound by Blood sized map would allow them to easily fit both topographies we see in the trailer, as well kitten include the EoTN.

TBH, I would not say that's a Bound By Blood sized map. Especially from the footage - we see at the base of a mountain, and within it; for all we know, it's the same size as Shiverpeak Pass strike. But I'm expecting a map on par to the raids wings And the new mission is very clearly not going to the Eye of the North - it's literally taking us through dwarven ruins. The entrance shows dwarven ruins, and so does the apparent end (assuming the fire Iron Forgeman is the end-boss).

To use Grothmar as an example: both topographies fit easily within Shiverpeak Pass and Training Grounds. So a Grothmar-sized map is definitely not necessary.

But like I said, I'm expecting something on par to a single raid wing, like Spirit Vale. That wing has three topographies, too - jungle, ghostly ruins, and tree huts/bridges. With and without overlooking the other two from any one.

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Jormag's been making a big thing about a threat on the horizon, and how ice fortifies and protects, trying to insinuate itself as the only ally that can save us from this danger. With the possibility of it being the deep sea dragon, we don't really need Jormag's ability to save us, we simply have to travel to Cantha and learn the dark rituals that allowed Shiro Tagachi to corrupt Dwayna's magic that eventually unleashed the Jade Wind turning the Jade Sea into solid jade. We would have an effective weapon or defensive measure with which to combat the dragon, or at least slow it down.

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@Albione.3894 said:Jormag's been making a big thing about a threat on the horizon, and how ice fortifies and protects, trying to insinuate itself as the only ally that can save us from this danger. With the possibility of it being the deep sea dragon, we don't really need Jormag's ability to save us, we simply have to travel to Cantha and learn the dark rituals that allowed Shiro Tagachi to corrupt Dwayna's magic that eventually unleashed the Jade Wind turning the Jade Sea into solid jade. We would have an effective weapon or defensive measure with which to combat the dragon, or at least slow it down.

I doubt that would be of any use. It was Dwayna’s magic supposedly and I think it’s implied that he expelled it and dispersed it/used it. Don’t think there’s anything for us to use or go around and collect.

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@Albione.3894 said:Jormag's been making a big thing about a threat on the horizon, and how ice fortifies and protects, trying to insinuate itself as the only ally that can save us from this danger. With the possibility of it being the deep sea dragon, we don't really need Jormag's ability to save us, we simply have to travel to Cantha and learn the dark rituals that allowed Shiro Tagachi to corrupt Dwayna's magic that eventually unleashed the Jade Wind turning the Jade Sea into solid jade. We would have an effective weapon or defensive measure with which to combat the dragon, or at least slow it down.

It's interesting because, first, Jormag doesn't have any foresight ability, at least not that we know. And second, one of Jormag's sphere of influence is persuasion. But at the same time, it feels that there is some truth to that warning. And after the recent announcement, it's obviously becoming more apparent. After our final confrontation with Kralk, the Elder Dragons are not as one-dimensional, devour-all, type of entities.

Our current threat right now is basically Bangar who wants to awaken Jormag who is now still dormant, not sure how he plans to awaken the dragon though. Because if we can stop him, there is practically not much active EDs threat in Tyria. But from the IBS trailer, it seems like he's gonna be successful. It would be interesting to see how they gonna resolve IBS and ties it with the next expac (assuming the expac will be released subsequently after IBS). From past interview, their narrative team kinda mentioned something about writing future story not focused on Elder Dragons, but around Elder Dragons. Like they mentioned how if you watch movie about disasters the big baddy usually is another human, and the disaster only used as a setting of the story. Imagine that disaster is the Elder Dragons, and now we got Bangar as the actual baddy. Not sure if they gonna continue with this formula or not, but if so it would be interesting who will be this next non-dragon antagonist.

@Randulf.7614 said:I am curious. After the vision, Rytlock tells us Bangar is close to Jormag but has gone North. I thought Jormag fell to sleep near Bitterfrost as per the S3 dialogue?

Jormag is indeed sleeping. Even in the last instance of Ep1 Jormag did mention that they're slumbering beneath the ice (at least I take it literally). But I suppose Elder Dragons always have some capacity to manifest their presence through non-physical form (e.g. Mordremoth who could reach out to Scarlett as she opened herself) as well as through their corrupted minions in Tyria. I guess by slumber it means their physical-self is dormant as they got no energy (or magic) to wake up. At least I see it that way since Mordremoth only actually active once Scarlett reroute some leylines toward him.

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@"Randulf.7614" said:I am curious. After the vision, Rytlock tells us Bangar is close to Jormag but has gone North. I thought Jormag fell to sleep near Bitterfrost as per the S3 dialogue?

That isn't the only mention of needing to go further north to get to Jormag, which indeed does contradict Season 3's lore.

One possible explanation is that Jormag flew back north while Braham was hunting it. If this is the case, this would definitely explain why Bangar thinks the bow would be useful - though he does claim it's just a rallying cry and not necessary to subdue Jormag (how far up his own arse can his head be?) - as such an event could be seen as Jormag "fleeing" from Braham and his bow.

@ErickDntn.1847 said:Jormag is indeed sleeping. Even in the last instance of Ep1 Jormag did mention that they're slumbering beneath the ice (at least I take it literally). But I suppose Elder Dragons always have some capacity to manifest their presence through non-physical form (e.g. Mordremoth who could reach out to Scarlett as she opened herself) as well as through their corrupted minions in Tyria. I guess by slumber it means their physical-self is dormant as they got no energy (or magic) to wake up. At least I see it that way since Mordremoth only actually active once Scarlett reroute some leylines toward him.

You misunderstood Randulf, who is confused about Jormag's location, not whether or not its still asleep. In Season 3 Episode 3, it's said that Jormag has made its home in a tundra just beyond Bitterfrost Frontier (which is why the zone was given such a name, and why The Bitter Cold area is so darn cold - it's so darn close to Jormag who's freezing the area so thoroughly).

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@ErickDntn.1847 said:Jormag is indeed sleeping. Even in the last instance of Ep1 Jormag did mention that they're slumbering beneath the ice (at least I take it literally). But I suppose Elder Dragons always have some capacity to manifest their presence through non-physical form (e.g. Mordremoth who could reach out to Scarlett as she opened herself) as well as through their corrupted minions in Tyria. I guess by slumber it means their physical-self is dormant as they got no energy (or magic) to wake up. At least I see it that way since Mordremoth only actually active once Scarlett reroute some leylines toward him.

That is not what I was saying. Jormag should be asleep much further south as per S3 alluding to where it fell into the ice. Unless it moved after ep3 of S3, so why would Bangar be going to North to it?

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