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Soulbeast Damage Adjustments


Cal Cohen.2358

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@Odik.4587 said:

@"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:Bruh, I gave him 2 threads with screens on its damage sources, pounce/F2 on bird/autos on bird 4k EACH and still deny it... if he cant reach that damage because he doesnt know how .... which translates to be bad at his own class... I just took them here, feel free to use them :D!
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HYlPncJ.png

You use the same skill and do less dmg, maybe it's because of some modifiers like might, vuln, fury, maybe even traits?

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@Abyssisis.3971 said:

@Abyssisis.3971 said:^ what toughness are you running?

Dude's running full glass, catching all the vulnerability a LB ranger can dish out, standing in "sic em'ed" bird swipes and then cries for nerfs while calling others bad

I assumed as much from his lack of HP.

This is how much the bird actually hits for without buff and vuln stacking

v8VABcq.jpg

Seems pretty reasonable for a pet with 16k hp, no armor, hit's less than once a second, and still has a hard time hitting a moving target

NvydDfM.jpg

People post dishonest "sic em" cheese just so they can cry for more nerfs to avoid having to take the class seriously

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@Substance E.4852 said:

@Abyssisis.3971 said:^ what toughness are you running?

Dude's running full glass, catching all the vulnerability a LB ranger can dish out, standing in "sic em'ed" bird swipes and then cries for nerfs while calling others bad

I assumed as much from his lack of HP.

This is how much the bird actually hits for without buff and vuln stacking

v8VABcq.jpg

Seems pretty reasonable for a pet with 16k hp, no armor, hit's less than once a second, and still has a hard time hitting a moving target

Yup, those are the numbers I see when my bird attacks players. Guessing old mate is running 0 toughness and a few pieces of equipment unequipped or something ahha

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@Odik.4587 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:can you fix pet damage?

This is important. We have a couple of pets hitting for 9-10k (namely tiger and some birds) on good days. people who just played ranger for the maul meme wont have any difficulty moving over to the pet oriented variant, especially because those can also be unblockable.

It's worth a look.

"Birds hitting for 9-10k"

What is it with the ranger that forces people to just flat out lie?

Do you people have that much of a personal beef with the class?

Pets have never been able to hit for this much outside of the very old smokescale and bugged gazelle and nothing has been done to them to make them hit this hard now

Ranger is simultaneously the most OP class in the game while half the playerbase is running some kind of burn guard these days

Doesn't make much sense to me
You arent making sense
Still did maul on zerk core ranger 9800 on engi, good nerf /s

you are a complete joke crying about bird hitting you for 3 times for 2k each and then cry about it, this is purely a l2p issue but unfortunately Anet listens to the crying of bad players like you.

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@Abyssisis.3971 said:

@Abyssisis.3971 said:^ what toughness are you running?

Dude's running full glass, catching all the vulnerability a LB ranger can dish out, standing in "sic em'ed" bird swipes and then cries for nerfs while calling others bad

I assumed as much from his lack of HP.Lack of HP on marauder DH? I think gazelle casually hit me over 8k hp? He didnt even had sic em with him as pet has no sic em or me revealed, rofl.You are too "smart" to realize that pet damage coefficients are crazy high so its pointless to try.Thats fine, we can have a duel - me ranger and you play any class you like, and see who is bad and if you get dunked by pets :)
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@verskore.4312 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:can you fix pet damage?

This is important. We have a couple of pets hitting for 9-10k (namely tiger and some birds) on good days. people who just played ranger for the maul meme wont have any difficulty moving over to the pet oriented variant, especially because those can also be unblockable.

It's worth a look.

"Birds hitting for 9-10k"

What is it with the ranger that forces people to just flat out lie?

Do you people have that much of a personal beef with the class?

Pets have never been able to hit for this much outside of the very old smokescale and bugged gazelle and nothing has been done to them to make them hit this hard now

Ranger is simultaneously the most OP class in the game while half the playerbase is running some kind of burn guard these days

Doesn't make much sense to me
You arent making sense
Still did maul on zerk core ranger 9800 on engi, good nerf /s

you are a complete joke crying about bird hitting you for 3 times for 2k each and then cry about it, this is purely a l2p issue but unfortunately Anet listens to the crying of bad players like you.

I like how people without knowing the others call them bad players.Even worse talking without seeing the screenshots.

I guess the narrative is the same of the other pathetic thief, fabricated screenshots.

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@verskore.4312 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:can you fix pet damage?

This is important. We have a couple of pets hitting for 9-10k (namely tiger and some birds) on good days. people who just played ranger for the maul meme wont have any difficulty moving over to the pet oriented variant, especially because those can also be unblockable.

It's worth a look.

"Birds hitting for 9-10k"

What is it with the ranger that forces people to just flat out lie?

Do you people have that much of a personal beef with the class?

Pets have never been able to hit for this much outside of the very old smokescale and bugged gazelle and nothing has been done to them to make them hit this hard now

Ranger is simultaneously the most OP class in the game while half the playerbase is running some kind of burn guard these days

Doesn't make much sense to me
You arent making sense
Still did maul on zerk core ranger 9800 on engi, good nerf /s

you are a complete joke crying about
bird hitting you for 3 times for 4k each
(This attack hits twice simultaneously. - from the wiki, so you know) and then cry about it, this is purely a l2p issue but unfortunately Anet listens to the crying of bad players like you.OR bad biased playes like you who became "suddenly good" because of certain broken stuff that they dont want to fix.I welcome you to beat me on any other class while I play ranger, I aldy know the answer tho.Fixed numbers btw
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@verskore.4312 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:can you fix pet damage?

This is important. We have a couple of pets hitting for 9-10k (namely tiger and some birds) on good days. people who just played ranger for the maul meme wont have any difficulty moving over to the pet oriented variant, especially because those can also be unblockable.

It's worth a look.

"Birds hitting for 9-10k"

What is it with the ranger that forces people to just flat out lie?

Do you people have that much of a personal beef with the class?

Pets have never been able to hit for this much outside of the very old smokescale and bugged gazelle and nothing has been done to them to make them hit this hard now

Ranger is simultaneously the most OP class in the game while half the playerbase is running some kind of burn guard these days

Doesn't make much sense to me
You arent making sense
Still did maul on zerk core ranger 9800 on engi, good nerf /s

you are a complete joke crying about bird hitting you for 3 times for 2k each and then cry about it, this is purely a l2p issue but unfortunately Anet listens to the crying of bad players like you.

We had enought fake elitisism at forums from unskill people that need 1 shots & instakills to stand a chance against their betters, face it the times where you could kill someone in 0.5 seconds are over the time of real pvp begins and all your pretending wont change that

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@Odik.4587 said:

@Abyssisis.3971 said:^ what toughness are you running?

Dude's running full glass, catching all the vulnerability a LB ranger can dish out, standing in "sic em'ed" bird swipes and then cries for nerfs while calling others bad

I assumed as much from his lack of HP.Lack of HP on marauder DH? I think gazelle casually hit me over 8k hp? He didnt even had sic em with him as pet has no sic em or me revealed, rofl.You are too "smart" to realize that pet damage coefficients are crazy high so its pointless to try.Thats fine, we can have a duel - me ranger and you play any class you like, and see who is bad and if you get dunked by pets :)

So you are running 0 toughness and complaining about being hit hard? Hmmm ?

I think it’s funny you are dying to a pet, especially when you are playing a DH with all the goodness of a guardian and some pretty good traps. Lol

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@Abyssisis.3971 said:

@Abyssisis.3971 said:^ what toughness are you running?

Dude's running full glass, catching all the vulnerability a LB ranger can dish out, standing in "sic em'ed" bird swipes and then cries for nerfs while calling others bad

I assumed as much from his lack of HP.Lack of HP on marauder DH? I think gazelle casually hit me over 8k hp? He didnt even had sic em with him as pet has no sic em or me revealed, rofl.You are too "smart" to realize that pet damage coefficients are crazy high so its pointless to try.Thats fine, we can have a duel - me ranger and you play any class you like, and see who is bad and if you get dunked by pets :)

So you are running 0 toughness and complaining about being hit hard? Hmmm ?

I think it’s funny you are dying to a pet, especially when you are playing a DH with all the goodness of a guardian and some pretty good traps. LolMay be I complain about it because its damage coefficients are crazy high, especially when we look at player coefficients??????????Look at metabattle and think for 2 seconds, why there is nearly no builds that use toughness amulets, truly hard task for you, I know... So what about actual duel? Noes?Someone who won mAT but dont allow to show his name :)
atKhds6.png
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The nerf was justified and done in a way that still leaves slb in a good spot, played it last night in 2v2 and unranked and felt completely fine. I wasn't hitting crazy high numbers but I was definitely hitting for enough. We ranger players should be happy the changes(nerfs) were done well and adapt.I do find it funny though with classes that are the real outliers such as fb,condi rev and necro get so few nerf posts even though its obviously in community- agreement that their by far and wide the strongest classes right now. Classes like fb have been overperforming for yrs due to the fact the community continually spam threads on the classes they have vendetta's against instead of worrying about actual classes that need shaves to improve health of the game. Yeah there was some necro, fb and rev posts shortly after the big patch saying they were broken and one or two after following patch saying the shaves weren't nearly enough then nothing lol back to the nerf thief, mesmer and ranger post spamming lol. No wonder the real outliers never get toned down fully nor does the game really ever change. Every 2v2 or unranked match has far more occurance of necro,fb/burn guard or condi rev than any other class, for a reason.Hopefully now after these ranger nerfs the community will focus on real outliers to improve the games health and leave their vendetta at the door to avoid ranger becoming a no show in the meta like happened last time it showed its face there as ranger deserves a spot in meta to.

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@"Cal Cohen.2358" said:Hi Everyone,

Outside of various bugfixes, the main balance tweaks we have in today’s build are some adjustments to Soulbeast damage, most notably the single-hit potential of both Maul and Worldly Impact, but also reducing Soulbeast damage output in general. We’ve seen a lot of discussion on the topic and a lot of discussion on what adjustments make sense to bring the damage down, so we wanted to provide some details around what we did and why.

There were a handful of things that were considered:

  • Marksmanship traits (Moment of Clarity+Remorseless)
  • Sic’Em
  • Beastmastery attribute bonuses while merged
  • Merged attribute bonuses from ferocious pets
  • Power coefficients of Maul and Worldly Impact

Marksmanship adjustments were dismissed pretty early due to the impact they would have on other ranger builds, notably core ranger builds that rely more heavily on marksmanship due to the absence of Sic’Em, other multipliers from the soulbeast traitline, and the stat bonuses from merging. In addition, we’re currently less concerned with the build of soulbeast, beastmastery, marksmanship. This is the glassiest iteration of soulbeast and while it hits the largest numbers, it's also extremely vulnerable to enemy pressure. We’ll definitely be keeping an eye on the build moving forward as it will still be able to have massive single hits under ideal conditions, but in general we expect it to be held in check by more balanced builds in the meta.

Moving on, we essentially had two choices. Shaving coefficients of Maul and Worldly impact was definitely warranted, so the remaining question was whether we hit Sic’Em or the soulbeast merge bonuses to make up the remaining damage reduction. We went with the attribute adjustments due to how free they are, or rather the lack of opportunity cost. Beastmastery is full of valuable traits and is a strong choice even in the absence of the soulbeast specialization, so the bonus attributes while merged are just bonus value on top. Similarly, many of the ferocious pets like gazelle and smokescale are already competitive options before considering the extra 200 power and 100 ferocity while merged. Sic’Em, while a powerful utility skill (and probably still a bit overtuned relative to where we want offensive utilities to be), does require a slot on the skill bar, and we’d rather see players continue to slot Sic’Em to maximize damage than simply replace it with something else had we nerfed it and left the merge buffs alone. For some frame of reference, the combination of changes we made is a slightly heavier nerf than if we reduced the Sic’Em multiplier from 25% to 15%, plus the shaves to power coefficients on top of that.

These changes may be a bit light overall, but as we talked about previously our plan is to make smaller, more controlled adjustments more often and re-evaluate as needed with the goal of improving balance in the long run.

That's all for today's update. There's definitely more to discuss balance-wise than just soulbeast, and we'll have more to talk about in a future post.

-The Systems Team

Here are the relevant soulbeast changes for anyone who doesn't want to cross-check with the update notes, but definitely go check out the notes for the full list of bugfixes.

  • Pack Alpha: Reduced stats granted to merged soulbeasts from 150 to 75 in PvP and WvW.
  • Pet's Prowess: Reduced ferocity granted to merged soulbeasts from 300 to 150 in PvP and WvW.
  • Ferocious (Soulbeast Pet Archetype Effect): Reduced power granted from 200 to 100 in PvP and WvW.
  • Maul: Reduced power coefficient from 1.5 to 1.36 in PvP and WvW.
  • Worldly Impact: Reduced power coefficient from 1.512 to 1.36 in PvP and WvW.

Did you fix Deadeye multipliers thou? I don't get this obsession with nerfing the core damage of the class when you have condition builds destroying the game and 5K fireball autos.I could tell you the issue with the class is not the power coefficients by itself because other classes hit much harder being tankier. But what would i know.

I know this is a PvP thread but this changes also impact the class in WvW and this is the only thread addressing this nerfs.

As reference as i see DE still today plays permastealth with 20K bursts of 1 second.

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Hey can you take a look at 2 ranger weapons

1) mh dagger due to the abundance of cc and especially aoe cc it feels pretty bad to play,Some things possibly to take in mind, the 4 auto chain dosnt give it flavor just makes pessing 1 more and doesn't combo wellThe skill 2 instead of damage would be better served as a utility i would suggest a very short daze or immolb or a short block or reflect just a way allow ranger dagger to stay in melee.

2)ranger staff (druid in general) feels really poor to play too being its waay to single target and doesn't have all that support

I would like to see it reworked into a purely aoe support weapon

Druid also feels pretty bad to play, it would be cooler if it was closer to eles forms or revs legends where your constantly swapping forms and get rid of cele shadow

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I would like to see the professions updated "also" based on the impact they have in the Pvp / WvW game modes.FB for example is Meta in all game modes, there is no PvP team without FB, there is no Zerg without FB and this happens not because it is nice to play, but it happens because it has too much to offer to consider anything else in its place, this too deserves to be taken into consideration not only the posts here on the forum.

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@"Cal Cohen.2358"

Two things:

  1. The damage nerf was too big. It should have received stat nerfs OR lowering of coefficients, but not both. All Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast builds that use GS are taking enormous hits in damage now, due to this patch. The only thing the Soulbeast had was damage output, which now that the threatening damage output is gone, Soulbeast is now dealing damage on par with everything else, but it has half the sustain as everything else. This is a problem.
  2. So now these changes pigeonhole literally all Ranger builds, Core/Druid/Soulbeast alike, into having to use Marksmanship for any real damage output. Now you're still going to have people complaining & posting screenshots of 10k+ pet strikes and 15k Mauls & WIs, because that's what happens when +50% +50% +25% +25% all meet in a perfect union.

Your problem was and always has been Marksmanship modifiers & Sic Em. <- This is the sole source & reason for all of the "Over 9,000" strikes that you see posted & complained about in this forum. Nerfing around that fact is the wrong way to go about it, and it will only kill Ranger build viability outside of the use of Marksmanship & Sic Em to maintain any level of threatening damage output.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:The nerf was justified and done in a way that still leaves slb in a good spot, played it last night in 2v2 and unranked and felt completely fine. I wasn't hitting crazy high numbers but I was definitely hitting for enough. We ranger players should be happy the changes(nerfs) were done well and adapt.I do find it funny though with classes that are the real outliers such as fb,condi rev and necro get so few nerf posts even though its obviously in community- agreement that their by far and wide the strongest classes right now. Classes like fb have been overperforming for yrs due to the fact the community continually spam threads on the classes they have vendetta's against instead of worrying about actual classes that need shaves to improve health of the game. Yeah there was some necro, fb and rev posts shortly after the big patch saying they were broken and one or two after following patch saying the shaves weren't nearly enough then nothing lol back to the nerf thief, mesmer and ranger post spamming lol. No wonder the real outliers never get toned down fully nor does the game really ever change. Every 2v2 or unranked match has far more occurance of necro,fb/burn guard or condi rev than any other class, for a reason.Hopefully now after these ranger nerfs the community will focus on real outliers to improve the games health and leave their vendetta at the door to avoid ranger becoming a no show in the meta like happened last time it showed its face there as ranger deserves a spot in meta to.

You know it's going to happen. More ranger nerfs are confirmed on the factory line, and while core is still performing well I have no doubt that next patch will have them lagging at the back again. Remember, pet nerfs affect both core and slb.

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@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:The nerf was justified and done in a way that still leaves slb in a good spot, played it last night in 2v2 and unranked and felt completely fine. I wasn't hitting crazy high numbers but I was definitely hitting for enough. We ranger players should be happy the changes(nerfs) were done well and adapt.I do find it funny though with classes that are the real outliers such as fb,condi rev and necro get so few nerf posts even though its obviously in community- agreement that their by far and wide the strongest classes right now. Classes like fb have been overperforming for yrs due to the fact the community continually spam threads on the classes they have vendetta's against instead of worrying about actual classes that need shaves to improve health of the game. Yeah there was some necro, fb and rev posts shortly after the big patch saying they were broken and one or two after following patch saying the shaves weren't nearly enough then nothing lol back to the nerf thief, mesmer and ranger post spamming lol. No wonder the real outliers never get toned down fully nor does the game really ever change. Every 2v2 or unranked match has far more occurance of necro,fb/burn guard or condi rev than any other class, for a reason.Hopefully now after these ranger nerfs the community will focus on real outliers to improve the games health and leave their vendetta at the door to avoid ranger becoming a no show in the meta like happened last time it showed its face there as ranger deserves a spot in meta to.

You know it's going to happen. More ranger nerfs are confirmed on the factory line, and while core is still performing well I have no doubt that next patch will have them lagging at the back again. Remember, pet nerfs affect both core and slb.

You have to make space for 3rd round of elites after all....

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Cal Cohen.2358"

Two things:

  1. The damage nerf was too big. It should have received stat nerfs OR lowering of coefficients, but not both. All Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast builds that use GS are taking enormous hits in damage now, due to this patch. The only thing the Soulbeast had was damage output, which now that the threatening damage output is gone, Soulbeast is now dealing damage on par with everything else, but it has half the sustain as everything else. This is a problem.
  2. So now these changes pigeonhole literally all Ranger builds, Core/Druid/Soulbeast alike, into having to use Marksmanship for any real damage output. Now you're still going to have people complaining & posting screenshots of 10k+ pet strikes and 15k Mauls & WIs, because that's what happens when +50% +50% +25% +25% all meet in a perfect union.

Your problem was and always has been Marksmanship modifiers & Sic Em. <- This is the sole source & reason for all of the "Over 9,000" strikes that you see posted & complained about in this forum. Nerfing around that fact is the wrong way to go about it, and it will only kill Ranger build viability outside of the use of Marksmanship & Sic Em to maintain any level of threatening damage output.

True, and non-wilderness survival builds haven't been viable since post-patch (one can argue the same for pre-patch), which forces you to ditch marksmanship (which in turn keeps core afloat w/o Sic' Em) as a SLB, unless you're going for those meme-y OS cheese builds.

People keep on discussing these big crit Mauls and WI's as if rangers keep on pumping them out at a constant basis. It's a big L2P issue going on that people don't want to address themselves.

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