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Soulbeast Damage Adjustments


Cal Cohen.2358

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I will say, that the stat nerf to Soulbeast hurt whatever non-glass builds we had left after removing the second pet.

I still would have preferred modifier nerfs and giving us the second pet back (with nerf for some pet attacks) so that we could have versatility over gimmick burst damage. Soulbeast is just not very fun to play anymore. You can't remove 7 whole skills from a spec like that... it's such a crazy nerf. Like cutting out a quarter of the class.

All slb is good for post-patch is memeing people who aren't paying attention or have no cds. But if they had no cooldowns they'd die just as fast to any +1.

Before the patch, you were able to weave in and out of beastmode and swapping pets. Very active, engaging playstyle. That gets removed and all of a sudden you see rangers that only have to press 3 buttons to kill people. Now, the damage is lower and it's fine but idk... definitely way less fun.

If it means anything, there are rangers I know that don't mind the removal of the second pet because "they never swapped pets anyways." So, the people that actually used ranger properly just got bopped and the ones who just set their pet to Guard and stopped paying attention to it are fine.

You keep on removing options for better players to outplay on ranger. Just so many skills are just vanishing from our kit. It is honestly like playing with a 1/3 of a class compared to what it used to be (and I'm not talking damage-wise).

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I also tried running things like Skirmishing Core Ranger after the patch to make up for the cooldown increases... but it is pretty impossible to kill anything in the current meta when I'm only hitting 3k Mauls when I crit. And there's like... nothing to buff the pet's damage and no other skills on gs or lb that hit hard without buffing them a ton.

We're being forced more into glass marksmanship builds and that's just going to result in more people continuing to cry about our damage when they get hit with multiple modifiers stacked onto a single attack.

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@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:The nerf was justified and done in a way that still leaves slb in a good spot, played it last night in 2v2 and unranked and felt completely fine. I wasn't hitting crazy high numbers but I was definitely hitting for enough. We ranger players should be happy the changes(nerfs) were done well and adapt.I do find it funny though with classes that are the real outliers such as fb,condi rev and necro get so few nerf posts even though its obviously in community- agreement that their by far and wide the strongest classes right now. Classes like fb have been overperforming for yrs due to the fact the community continually spam threads on the classes they have vendetta's against instead of worrying about actual classes that need shaves to improve health of the game. Yeah there was some necro, fb and rev posts shortly after the big patch saying they were broken and one or two after following patch saying the shaves weren't nearly enough then nothing lol back to the nerf thief, mesmer and ranger post spamming lol. No wonder the real outliers never get toned down fully nor does the game really ever change. Every 2v2 or unranked match has far more occurance of necro,fb/burn guard or condi rev than any other class, for a reason.Hopefully now after these ranger nerfs the community will focus on real outliers to improve the games health and leave their vendetta at the door to avoid ranger becoming a no show in the meta like happened last time it showed its face there as ranger deserves a spot in meta to.

You know it's going to happen. More ranger nerfs are confirmed on the factory line, and while core is still performing well I have no doubt that next patch will have them lagging at the back again. Remember, pet nerfs affect both core and slb.

Well u just have to hope the new team knows when enough is enough, so guess we'll find out in near future:). As it is now I understand these nerfs and myself still feel effective on my gs/bow build in pvp but I'm not plat so..... I think a power build still has a chance to see high lv play though, not if they nerf it further tho so in my mind guess it depends on if cal and the team want to see ranger played in the meta or just the same fb, rev and necro builds were seeing now all over the place. Not like were not used to same handful of specs being meta and for so long it's gotten to the point most have excepted the meta broken specs and qq about the very little and if any new spec creeps in community pounces on it to be nerfed out a meta so it's not all on the devs lol.

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Here... this is my SLB before they destroyed all the fun in playing it. I'm running glass, and not hitting much more than like... 3.4-4k on my Maul crits

Now I play a SLB build that just merges, OWP, Sic Em, Rapid Fire/Maul and... boom big damage ppl die...

Like ugh... it's disgusting!

Makes me want to invent a time machine so I can enjoy playing SLB again

And even on glass, without stacking modifiers like marksmanship and sic em... my damage seems pretty reasonable, right? This is with the extra stats on merge as well. THE STATS WERE NOT THE ISSUE. It has always been the modifiers.

You guys did a good job lowering damage but the builds that were the issues were hurt less than the builds that didn't rely on gimmicks.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:mesmer nerfs -50% thats fineranger nerf -10% MURDER, CLASS DELETED ITS OVER.

I like to start conversations about butter by mentioning my car, too.

I also use clever quips when I have nothing valuable to add.Makes me feel smart!

This argument would only make sense if I hadn't provided to the conversation(s) already.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:The nerf was justified and done in a way that still leaves slb in a good spot, played it last night in 2v2 and unranked and felt completely fine. I wasn't hitting crazy high numbers but I was definitely hitting for enough. We ranger players should be happy the changes(nerfs) were done well and adapt.I do find it funny though with classes that are the real outliers such as fb,condi rev and necro get so few nerf posts even though its obviously in community- agreement that their by far and wide the strongest classes right now. Classes like fb have been overperforming for yrs due to the fact the community continually spam threads on the classes they have vendetta's against instead of worrying about actual classes that need shaves to improve health of the game. Yeah there was some necro, fb and rev posts shortly after the big patch saying they were broken and one or two after following patch saying the shaves weren't nearly enough then nothing lol back to the nerf thief, mesmer and ranger post spamming lol. No wonder the real outliers never get toned down fully nor does the game really ever change. Every 2v2 or unranked match has far more occurance of necro,fb/burn guard or condi rev than any other class, for a reason.Hopefully now after these ranger nerfs the community will focus on real outliers to improve the games health and leave their vendetta at the door to avoid ranger becoming a no show in the meta like happened last time it showed its face there as ranger deserves a spot in meta to.

Can you immagine for a sec , if was a guy that whined about Ranges+Mesmers , and when they where nerfed , he tries to become their freind ?:PAnd he will try to do the same for the rest of the classes ?:P

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@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:The nerf was justified and done in a way that still leaves slb in a good spot, played it last night in 2v2 and unranked and felt completely fine. I wasn't hitting crazy high numbers but I was definitely hitting for enough. We ranger players should be happy the changes(nerfs) were done well and adapt.I do find it funny though with classes that are the real outliers such as fb,condi rev and necro get so few nerf posts even though its obviously in community- agreement that their by far and wide the strongest classes right now. Classes like fb have been overperforming for yrs due to the fact the community continually spam threads on the classes they have vendetta's against instead of worrying about actual classes that need shaves to improve health of the game. Yeah there was some necro, fb and rev posts shortly after the big patch saying they were broken and one or two after following patch saying the shaves weren't nearly enough then nothing lol back to the nerf thief, mesmer and ranger post spamming lol. No wonder the real outliers never get toned down fully nor does the game really ever change. Every 2v2 or unranked match has far more occurance of necro,fb/burn guard or condi rev than any other class, for a reason.Hopefully now after these ranger nerfs the community will focus on real outliers to improve the games health and leave their vendetta at the door to avoid ranger becoming a no show in the meta like happened last time it showed its face there as ranger deserves a spot in meta to.

Can you immagine for a sec , if was a guy that whined about Ranges+Mesmers , and when they where nerfed , he tries to become their freind ?:PAnd he will try to do the same for the rest of the classes ?:P

Sry I don't follow?

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:The nerf was justified and done in a way that still leaves slb in a good spot, played it last night in 2v2 and unranked and felt completely fine. I wasn't hitting crazy high numbers but I was definitely hitting for enough. We ranger players should be happy the changes(nerfs) were done well and adapt.I do find it funny though with classes that are the real outliers such as fb,condi rev and necro get so few nerf posts even though its obviously in community- agreement that their by far and wide the strongest classes right now. Classes like fb have been overperforming for yrs due to the fact the community continually spam threads on the classes they have vendetta's against instead of worrying about actual classes that need shaves to improve health of the game. Yeah there was some necro, fb and rev posts shortly after the big patch saying they were broken and one or two after following patch saying the shaves weren't nearly enough then nothing lol back to the nerf thief, mesmer and ranger post spamming lol. No wonder the real outliers never get toned down fully nor does the game really ever change. Every 2v2 or unranked match has far more occurance of necro,fb/burn guard or condi rev than any other class, for a reason.Hopefully now after these ranger nerfs the community will focus on real outliers to improve the games health and leave their vendetta at the door to avoid ranger becoming a no show in the meta like happened last time it showed its face there as ranger deserves a spot in meta to.

Can you immagine for a sec , if was a guy that whined about Ranges+Mesmers , and when they where nerfed , he tries to become their freind ?:PAnd he will try to do the same for the rest of the classes ?:P

Sry I don't follow?

Dont worry , we will catch on in 15 days :P

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@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:The nerf was justified and done in a way that still leaves slb in a good spot, played it last night in 2v2 and unranked and felt completely fine. I wasn't hitting crazy high numbers but I was definitely hitting for enough. We ranger players should be happy the changes(nerfs) were done well and adapt.I do find it funny though with classes that are the real outliers such as fb,condi rev and necro get so few nerf posts even though its obviously in community- agreement that their by far and wide the strongest classes right now. Classes like fb have been overperforming for yrs due to the fact the community continually spam threads on the classes they have vendetta's against instead of worrying about actual classes that need shaves to improve health of the game. Yeah there was some necro, fb and rev posts shortly after the big patch saying they were broken and one or two after following patch saying the shaves weren't nearly enough then nothing lol back to the nerf thief, mesmer and ranger post spamming lol. No wonder the real outliers never get toned down fully nor does the game really ever change. Every 2v2 or unranked match has far more occurance of necro,fb/burn guard or condi rev than any other class, for a reason.Hopefully now after these ranger nerfs the community will focus on real outliers to improve the games health and leave their vendetta at the door to avoid ranger becoming a no show in the meta like happened last time it showed its face there as ranger deserves a spot in meta to.

Can you immagine for a sec , if was a guy that whined about Ranges+Mesmers , and when they where nerfed , he tries to become their freind ?:PAnd he will try to do the same for the rest of the classes ?:P

Sry I don't follow?

Dont worry , we will catch on in 15 days :P

Ok? Lol

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:mesmer nerfs -50% thats fineranger nerf -10% MURDER, CLASS DELETED ITS OVER.

Nah man, that last round of damage nerfing very seriously cut out about 25% of Soulbeast damage output. And that's no estimation there, that number is pretty exact. While running burst tests on an indestructible golem after this damage nerf, it was definitely about a -25% during full 10s Sic Em burst tests vs. pre-patch.

The stat nerfs + coefficient nerfs were too much. Now it can't do the one thing it was meant to do, deal damage. It's not sustainable enough to stay in combat and brawl like other classes. You guys thought it was, but it never was at all. All of its defense was always in its offense. The GS 3 evade and GS 4 block is just not nearly as much defense as other bruisers have. Now it doesn't hit hard enough to force players into immediate threat zone, and it gets out brawled too easily.

The meta for Ranger will now shift to Core Pet 2HKO using Marks and possibly Marks+Sic Em, and you'll all still be complaining, because the problem was always Marks modifiers & Sic Em.

~ Put your seat belts on, it's about to get twice as bursty as it was before.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:mesmer nerfs -50% thats fineranger nerf -10% MURDER, CLASS DELETED ITS OVER.

Nah man, that last round of damage nerfing very seriously cut out about 25% of Soulbeast damage output. And that's no estimation there, that number is pretty exact. While running burst tests on an indestructible golem after this damage nerf, it was definitely about a -25% during full 10s Sic Em burst tests vs. pre-patch.

The stat nerfs + coefficient nerfs were too much. Now it can't do the one thing it was meant to do, deal damage. It's not sustainable enough to stay in combat and brawl like other classes. You guys thought it was, but it never was at all. All of its defense was always in its offense. The GS 3 evade and GS 4 block is just not nearly as much defense as other bruisers have. Now it doesn't hit hard enough to force players into immediate threat zone, and it gets out brawled too easily.

The meta for Ranger will now shift to Core Pet 2HKO using Marks and possibly Marks+Sic Em, and you'll all still be complaining, because the problem was always Marks modifiers & Sic Em.

~ Put your seat belts on, it's about to get twice as bursty as it was before.

I found my damage and sustain on slb 213, ws 122 and bm 322 to be fine running zerk and scholars. I just wish I didn't have to unmerge for protect me barrier. If I could get that barrier while merged the build would be great imo. As I said I'm no plat but I was more than effective in 2v2 and unranked. Was rocking gs/ lb. Maybe it fails on higher tiers I donno.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:mesmer nerfs -50% thats fineranger nerf -10% MURDER, CLASS DELETED ITS OVER.

Nah man, that last round of damage nerfing very seriously cut out about 25% of Soulbeast damage output. And that's no estimation there, that number is pretty exact. While running burst tests on an indestructible golem after this damage nerf, it was definitely about a -25% during full 10s Sic Em burst tests vs. pre-patch.

The stat nerfs + coefficient nerfs were too much. Now it can't do the one thing it was meant to do, deal damage. It's not sustainable enough to stay in combat and brawl like other classes. You guys thought it was, but it never was at all. All of its defense was always in its offense. The GS 3 evade and GS 4 block is just not nearly as much defense as other bruisers have. Now it doesn't hit hard enough to force players into immediate threat zone, and it gets out brawled too easily.

The meta for Ranger will now shift to Core Pet 2HKO using Marks and possibly Marks+Sic Em, and you'll all still be complaining, because the problem was always Marks modifiers & Sic Em.

~ Put your seat belts on, it's about to get twice as bursty as it was before.

and here I am enjoying dealing 800-1000 dmg with all abilities, scratching my head why peeps complain when they can land 10k+ hits ;p

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I don't get the complaint... Rangers now must spec into damage traitlines to deal damage? Shocking

Ele's have to spec into air for decent power damage, and even then, the precision and Ferocity it grants is minimal compared to other class traitlines. Lightning Rod isn't dealing 10k hits. I doubt Ele's can hit that singlehandedly in Pvp

Ele's used to rely solely on water healing for sustain but that got nerfed in Feb. Invulns were "SO OP" so that got nerfed. The only defense Ele's have left is evades and you bet your top dollar people will complain.

These recent nerfs don't seem out of the ordinary compared to other classes. Sounds like it's a nerf in the right direction

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@"Stallic.2397" said:I don't get the complaint... Rangers now must spec into damage traitlines to deal damage? Shocking

Ele's have to spec into air for decent power damage, and even then, the precision and Ferocity it grants is minimal compared to other class traitlines. Lightning Rod isn't dealing 10k hits. I doubt Ele's can hit that singlehandedly in Pvp

Ele's used to rely solely on water healing for sustain but that got nerfed in Feb. Invulns were "SO OP" so that got nerfed. The only defense Ele's have left is evades and you bet your top dollar people will complain.

These recent nerfs don't seem out of the ordinary compared to other classes. Sounds like it's a nerf in the right direction

The issue is that Rangers have a high burst damage, but very low sustain damage. That means that we can hit hard for very brief time and then almost nothing for the next 20-30 seconds while our burst skills are on cool down. Other classes can't necessarily hit that hard burst, but can sustain a higher DPS over all. But in order to really maximize the burst damage on a soulbeast, that means traits, pets and skill choices to maximize that burst potential, leaving the soulbeast also more vulnerable to sustain damage without mitigation. The very definition of glass cannon.

However, now that everybody has complained about the soulbeast burst damage and are quite satisfied with it being heavily nerfed, what is left is a bursty class whose burst damage is in line with everybody else, but whose sustain damage is LOWER than everybody else, and we have to give up all of our mitigation traits and skills just to get the bursty damage that others can enjoy while still keeping decent sustain damage AND mitigation.

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@Moira Shalaar.5620 said:So, since commanders in WvW already hate rangers and routinely kick us, rangers were left to be the premier roamers, in part because of our DPS. @Cal Cohen, Tell me then, now that you have double nerfed Rangers, first with the tuning down that everybody received and now this, what role in WvW do you envision for Rangers? Surely you haven't adopted the meta opinion that Rangers have no place in WvW, and yet by listening to all the opposition to Rangers on the forums you are stripping away the last role in which playing ranger shined.

Well, I can't speak for ANET, but my guess would be this: they wanted to reduce damage output from everyone in competitive modes down from LV 10 to LV 5, so damage for every profession was reduced by 5. Thing is, turns out Ranger damage pre-patch was actually around 12, so to get them down to 5 with everyone else, another nerf was required.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:Well, I can't speak for ANET, but my guess would be this: they wanted to reduce damage output from everyone in competitive modes down from LV 10 to LV 5, so damage for every profession was reduced by 5. Thing is, turns out Ranger damage pre-patch was actually around 12, so to get them down to 5 with everyone else, another nerf was required.

That doesn't change the fact that because rangers are built for burst damage that by bringing us down to the same burst damage as everyone else our overall sustain damage ends up being subpar and that without any mitigation at all. That means that they have reduced soulbeast to less than everyone else, not a fair reduction but an overreaction with the nerf hammer.

For this to be a fair nerf, in addition to reducing our power, our ferocity and our coefficients, they should also have reduced our cool downs so that we are able to have a fair sustain damage in line with other classes.

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@Moira Shalaar.5620 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:Well, I can't speak for ANET, but my guess would be this: they wanted to reduce damage output from everyone in competitive modes down from LV 10 to LV 5, so damage for every profession was reduced by 5. Thing is, turns out Ranger damage pre-patch was actually around 12, so to get them down to 5 with everyone else, another nerf was required.

That doesn't change the fact that because rangers are built for burst damage that by bringing us down to the same burst damage as everyone else our overall sustain damage ends up being subpar and that without any mitigation at all. That means that they have reduced soulbeast to less than everyone else, not a fair reduction but an overreaction with the nerf hammer.

For this to be a fair nerf, in addition to reducing our power, our ferocity and our coefficients, they should also have reduced our cool downs so that we are able to have a fair sustain damage in line with other classes.

And maybe that is what they are looking at. As I've said repeatedly on these forums, competitive modes are work in progress. The game is not in a balanced state now, but is a work progress by degrees. They said they would make changes rapidly, and we'll see if they do. By the end, Soulbeast might have more sustained damage and less burst, but with improved self-sustain.

Do you want to play a game where a spec mashes 3 of their utility buttons then presses 4 + 2 and scores a kill from 1500+ units away? If you do, you should check out Call of Duty instead.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:mesmer nerfs -50% thats fineranger nerf -10% MURDER, CLASS DELETED ITS OVER.

Nah man, that last round of damage nerfing very seriously cut out about 25% of Soulbeast damage output. And that's no estimation there, that number is pretty exact. While running burst tests on an indestructible golem after this damage nerf, it was definitely about a -25% during full 10s Sic Em burst tests vs. pre-patch.

The stat nerfs + coefficient nerfs were too much. Now it can't do the one thing it was meant to do, deal damage. It's not sustainable enough to stay in combat and brawl like other classes. You guys thought it was, but it never was at all. All of its defense was always in its offense. The GS 3 evade and GS 4 block is just not nearly as much defense as other bruisers have. Now it doesn't hit hard enough to force players into immediate threat zone, and it gets out brawled too easily.

The meta for Ranger will now shift to Core Pet 2HKO using Marks and possibly Marks+Sic Em, and you'll all still be complaining, because the problem was always Marks modifiers & Sic Em.

~ Put your seat belts on, it's about to get twice as bursty as it was before.

This is the truth, right here. 100%.

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@"Stallic.2397" said:I don't get the complaint... Rangers now must spec into damage traitlines to deal damage? Shocking

Ele's have to spec into air for decent power damage, and even then, the precision and Ferocity it grants is minimal compared to other class traitlines. Lightning Rod isn't dealing 10k hits. I doubt Ele's can hit that singlehandedly in Pvp

Ele's used to rely solely on water healing for sustain but that got nerfed in Feb. Invulns were "SO OP" so that got nerfed. The only defense Ele's have left is evades and you bet your top dollar people will complain.

These recent nerfs don't seem out of the ordinary compared to other classes. Sounds like it's a nerf in the right direction

Elementalist has quite a bit more going for them than damage. Ranger does not.

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@Odik.4587 said:

@Abyssisis.3971 said:^ what toughness are you running?

Dude's running full glass, catching all the vulnerability a LB ranger can dish out, standing in "sic em'ed" bird swipes and then cries for nerfs while calling others bad

I assumed as much from his lack of HP.Lack of HP on marauder DH? I think gazelle casually hit me over 8k hp? He didnt even had sic em with him as pet has no sic em or me revealed, rofl.You are too "smart" to realize that pet damage coefficients are crazy high so its pointless to try.Thats fine, we can have a duel - me ranger and you play any class you like, and see who is bad and if you get dunked by pets :)

"revealed" isnt going to show in damage logs bro

lol what are we even doing here

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