What happened to owl?

[Crystal Black.8190]

So i recently got to play the last episodes and i discovered the lost spirits werent consumed, but corrupted. I didnt yet explore the whole map, but is there any information what happened to owl? Did owl get consumed like its shaman told us or is it kept somwhere by jormag?

[Vayne.8563]

I thought Owl had been killed by Jormag during the battle that drove the norn south to form Hoelbrak.

[Randulf.7614]

@"Crystal Black.8190" said:So i recently got to play the last episodes and i discovered the lost spirits werent consumed, but corrupted. I didnt yet explore the whole map, but is there any information what happened to owl? Did owl get consumed like its shaman told us or is it kept somwhere by jormag?

Unlike the three lost spirits, Owl sacrificed herself and was destroyed utterly by Jormag. After that, the remaining three stayed behind to hold off Jormag's forces. Prior to the Saga beginning, their fate remained unknown. Owl however was already known to be dead

From the wiki (which I am sure you are aware of, bu I'll post it anyway)

"As the battle started, Jormag battered Owl without mercy and wore her down until she was weakened from the brunt of the Ice Dragon's force. Although she was outmatched, Owl chose not to flee because Jormag would have otherwise consumed all the norn below. She raised herself up and flew into Jormag's maw, scratching and clawing to keep the Elder Dragon focused only on her. Jormag destroyed Owl's spirit totally, and it is said that there came a cry that carried not through the air, but through the heart of every norn, after which the norn knew that Owl was lost to them. All owls became weaker and more confused when their Spirit was killed."

[Nikolai.3648]

It should be noted though, that we do not know what “death” means towards a Spirit of the Wild. It is said that Owl has been lost forever. But what does that mean exactly? Will there be a new Spirit of Owl in the future? Will the old one be reborn? Judging from the fact that the corrupted Spirits of the Wild seem to be used as energy sources, it might be that Owl is being devoured by Jormag, fueling them as a sort of eternal source of energy. Interesting enough, there are a few details in the game that hint towards Owl still being faintly present and fighting against the will of the elder dragon:

1) There is still a spirit of Owl overlooking her destroyed lodge (similar to an avatar) which grants you her blessing for some collection.

2) The vision at her shrine in Lost Spirits Hallow speaks of an overwhelming sensation of hope.

3) With the newest patch the Broken Voice weapons were introduced. The name could refer to the Voice of Jormag (Whisper or Drakkar) being silenced – but it might also hint at Owls fate: Her voice being so broken that the Norn can’t hear her since her big defeat, but still being present in this world, unyielding fighting against Jormags will. If you take a closer look at the weapons you will also notice that their design does not fit Jormags icy style. They look pure, warm, nearly divine. And their glow literary spells out a certain word: OWL!

So, there are some hints in the game that Owl might make a return. Should this truly be the case, my bet is on her bursting free from Jormags stomach during the final encounter with the dragon.

[Felipe.1807]

My guess is that she was killed, like the dragons consume magic, so Jormag eat her very essence, so Owl is no more...perhaps if we kill Jormag, her magic can free again, and she can be reborn or something.

[Drgnfly.5812]

I think it would be interesting and compelling for Owl to be reborn from Jormag. In fact I'm pretty convinced that with the protective rhetoric we hear coming from Jormag that we are experiencing the influence of Owl directly. Owl the White! =)

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Nikolai.3648 said:It should be noted though, that we do not know what “death” means towards a Spirit of the Wild. It is said that Owl has been lost forever. But what does that mean exactly? Will there be a new Spirit of Owl in the future? Will the old one be reborn? Judging from the fact that the corrupted Spirits of the Wild seem to be used as energy sources, it might be that Owl is being devoured by Jormag, fueling them as a sort of eternal source of energy. Interesting enough, there are a few details in the game that hint towards Owl still being faintly present and fighting against the will of the elder dragon:

1) There is still a spirit of Owl overlooking her destroyed lodge (similar to an avatar) which grants you her blessing for some collection.

2) The vision at her shrine in Lost Spirits Hallow speaks of an overwhelming sensation of hope.

3) With the newest patch the Broken Voice weapons were introduced. The name could refer to the Voice of Jormag (Whisper or Drakkar) being silenced – but it might also hint at Owls fate: Her voice being so broken that the Norn can’t hear her since her big defeat, but still being present in this world, unyielding fighting against Jormags will. If you take a closer look at the weapons you will also notice that their design does not fit Jormags icy style. They look pure, warm, nearly divine. And their glow literary spells out a certain word: OWL!

So, there are some hints in the game that Owl might make a return. Should this truly be the case, my bet is on her bursting free from Jormags stomach during the final encounter with the dragon.

There's a fourth hint. In Cragstead there is an Owl Shaman who believes that Owl can be reborn if there's enough belief in her or something along those lines. Though I find that as nothing but hopeful thinking, since it's established that all of an animal are connected to their Spirit of the Wild, and should the Spirit of the Wild die then those species will be weakened.

The fact they know this implies that Owl isn't the first Spirit of the Wild to die. Yet there's no story of a Spirit of the Wild being reborn or replaced.

[Nikolai.3648]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:There's a fourth hint. In Cragstead there is an Owl Shaman who believes that Owl can be reborn if there's enough belief in her or something along those lines. Though I find that as nothing but hopeful thinking, since it's established that all of an animal are connected to their Spirit of the Wild, and should the Spirit of the Wild die then those species will be weakened.

Thanks, I forgot to mention this one! I also remembered another hint after I wrote the last post. It is debatable, so it was not that important, but I have wondered in the past: Why does the skill Call Owl still work? It is unknown how the racial skills work exactly. The human prayers seem to either not be directly linked to the Gods at all or, judging from the Hounds, at least continue to work with the blessing of the new God of Fire. But the Norn racial skills do seem to depend on the blessing of the Spirits of the Wild, judging from the Elite transformations, which worked this way since GW1. This leaves us with the question of how this plead for Owls aid can still be heard and the help granted if she were indeed totally gone.

The fact they know this implies that Owl isn't the first Spirit of the Wild to die. Yet there's no story of a Spirit of the Wild being reborn or replaced.

You can however flip the question around: If we know that another spirit of the Wild died, why is this never mentioned anywhere and Owls sacrifice treated with such importance? It might very well be the case that a Spirit reforms after a while – If the animals are truly linked to their Spirit of the Wild and the species owl did not die out, that would imply that the Spirit will be reborn as a weaker Spirit. That could still be seen as enough reason to be shellshocked over her “death” and also explain why Spirits seem to have different amounts of strength. Minotaur for example appeared to be rather weak. The difference in strength could of course stem from different aspects, but the Spirits never appeared to me like they gained power from something like prayers (The Otter trinket also implies otherwise), which leaves us with the question how this imbalance comes to be (if it truly exists and Minotaur wasn’t just depicted as too weak in the story). If they lose some power with each demise and need to reclaim it for a long time, that could explain why we do know that their linked animals react this way, but also why no one cares about the former “dead” Spirit anymore, since they have already been reborn and reclaimed their full power, leaving no reason to still cry over it by now.

[Death Echo.7341]

I know, way late to the convo, and necroing a convo is a bit meh, but if you go to owl's arbattoir in snowden drifts, and do the jumping to get to the top, or take the cheap route and use a mount, there is an owl spirit up there, all the way at the top.

[Amanda Whitemoon.6173]

this is a lore forum, necro is better than make a new threat if new imformation presents itself to the discussion

[The Greyhawk.9107]

2 hours ago, Amanda Whitemoon.6173 said:

this is a lore forum, necro is better than make a new threat if new imformation presents itself to the discussion

Ehh, that's questionable if the thread is few years old, its sometimes better to start over imo.  Not that this quite qualifies.

[Legion.4198]

Isn't it briefly hinted that owl is back during the Champion's End epilogue?

[Tyson.5160]

7 minutes ago, Legion.4198 said:

Isn't it briefly hinted that owl is back during the Champion's End epilogue?

Not that I’m aware...

[Legion.4198]

I'm talking about the spirit bird that flies off from Braharm body  at Champion's End. Of course, it could be Eagle, or Raven instead. 

[Tyson.5160]

On 5/10/2021 at 12:52 PM, Legion.4198 said:

I'm talking about the spirit bird that flies off from Braharm body  at Champion's End. Of course, it could be Eagle, or Raven instead. 

Oh yeah, saw that. Looks like Raven. Oddly enough all this magic in the fallout of dragonstorm looks like spirit energy.

[Death Echo.7341]

I mean, norn players get to deal with dragon worshipers in their starting zone. it's a group that believes dragon to be a spirit and iirc the king of spirits or some such, I haven't been on my norn in a while and don't remember clearly, but yeah, those details are kind of plopped in the norn story.

[Sir Arigius.6294]

Do the Norn spirits like Owl qualify as deities since the Norn worship them in the game or what is the difference?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

3 hours ago, Sir Arigius.6294 said:

Do the Norn spirits like Owl qualify as deities since the Norn worship them in the game or what is the difference?

This effectively depends on how one classifies a 'deity'. Unlike IRL, Tyrians can and have met gods and visited afterlives with definitive proof of such deeds. However, players have only encountered two groups that can be classified as deities (three if you count Elder Dragons) - the Six Gods and Spirits of the Wild. There are other gods said to exist, such as Zintl, Mellaggan, Koda, Ameyalli, and the Great Dwarf, but they've yet to show up and their exact nature is in question for some.

That said, while we can definitively say that the Spirits of the Wild are a "higher being" than mere mortals due to their nature seen, they share practically no traits with the Six Gods, and no Tyrian - human, norn, or otherwise - call them gods or deities.

[Dawanarth.4601]

7 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Mellaggan

Isn't confirmed that it's supposed to be Mellandru ? Like the Grawl that have Balty as their god (But I don't remember the name variation)

[Fueki.4753]

17 minutes ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

Isn't confirmed that it's supposed to be Mellandru ? Like the Grawl that have Balty as their god (But I don't remember the name variation)

Human Scholars believe them to be the same, while Quaggan refer to them as separate beings.

Also according to the Quaggans, Mellaggan has been killed by Krait (which would make it questionable if she even was a goddess).

But Quaggans are stupid anyway, so Mellaggan might just have been a Largos with a face similar to Melandru.

And Badazar is just a case of Grawl worshipping anything they want, including statues made by humans and sometimes even something as mundane as rocks.

Zintl is simply the sun, while Ameyalli is the Maguuma Jungle (which means that Ameyalli effectively is Mordremoth and the Hylek are just in denial).

Edited October 26, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

while Ameyalli is the Maguuma Jungle (which means that Ameyalli effectively is Mordremoth and the Hylek are just in denial).

Well no. Mordremoth was not the entire jungle, just his corrupted vines/blighting trees. The vast majority of the jungle, and the things within it, were not Mordremoth. Ameyalli was the natural order of the jungle, sans Mordremoth.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

5 hours ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

Isn't confirmed that it's supposed to be Mellandru ? Like the Grawl that have Balty as their god (But I don't remember the name variation)

As mentioned by Fueki, it isn't confirmed to be Melandru. Human scholars equate the two, but quaggans don't and note the difference in that Melandru represents all nature while Melaggan represents the bounty of the sea.

In PAX2010, Colin did mistakenly say Melandru instead of Melaggan but AFAIK it wasn't a straight confirmation.

As for Badazar - the grawl aren't worshiping Balthazar, actually, but a specific statue of Balthazar. We can even see similar happening in GW1, with grawl congregated around a statue of Lyssa in Eastern Frontier, and two grawl groups fighting around a statue of Melandru in Regent Valley.

5 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

But Quaggans are stupid anyway, so Mellaggan might just have been a Largos with a face similar to Melandru.

Quaggans aren't so stupid as to misunderstand divinity for another species. They were well aware of who and what largos were.

5 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Zintl is simply the sun, while Ameyalli is the Maguuma Jungle (which means that Ameyalli effectively is Mordremoth and the Hylek are just in denial).

This is false on both accounts. Mordremoth wasn't the jungle, because Canach and Trahearne saying "he is the jungle" was just misnomer to explain the vast spread of Mordremoth throughout the jungle. Ameyalli was the Maguuma itself, while Mordremtoh was the creeping vines and corruption spreading throughout and corrupting the jungle. For Zintl, it's more than "simply the Sun", but rather the spirit (or personification) of the Sun.

In both cases, while they call them gods, it seems the hylek are worshiping powerful nature spirits instead, similar to the forest spirit Urgoz of the Echovald Forest, sea spirit Zhu Hanuku, or the Spirits of the Wild - or more aptly, the spirits of darkness, mountains, seasons, and fire that the norn don't worship but are aware of.

More curious would be beings like the life serpent Xiuquatl.