Bring Infuse Light in line

[Eugchriss.2046]

I think that this has always been (one of ) the problem with herald. When people talk about herald's sustain, they all refer to this specific skill. The ability to heal more than someone who is built for heal is beyond me. It was like having a better version of reflect which not only reflects all projectiles but all incoming damage. Just imagine how toxic that skill would be. But never mind...The drawback of such skills like defiant stance is longer cd (30 secs) compared to other "regular" heals (20-25 secs). Rev is the only class that should not have access to this kind of skill because they already have 2 healing skills which in practice makes infuse light only have 15secs cd. This is why I suggest:-either change the whole skill so that it doesn t convert all incoming damage in heal anymore-either make it 45 secs cd to match up with other similar skills I mentioned above.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

It has counterplay, just don't attack. If that's something you're unable to do, well …I agree, though, rev's currently too tanky for the amount of damage they're able to dish out. B-BUT RANGER!!!

[Xca.9721]

Nerfing Infuse Light would also nerf Power Shiros sustain by a lot, since that build already struggles with Conditions. You should rather take a look at the resistance uptime condi rev is able to put out.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:It has counterplay, just don't attack. If that's something you're unable to do, well …I agree, though, rev's currently too tanky for the amount of damage they're able to dish out. B-BUT RANGER!!!That's not a counterplay. It's like saying the counterplay to torment/confusion is to not move/use skills.You need to be very careful to notice the small icon under the player's name. And Still, in more than 1v1 scenario, with all the aoe, the pets, etc.. going around this "counterplay" doesn't work.Anyways, all I want is a 15 secs cd increase so that all the "rev's main" aka herald's player will think twice before using it.

[Shao.7236]

I predict a lot of Resistance nerfs requests when that's not the problem. You nerf resistance, you kill Core Condi, you don't have to touch Mallyx anymore, BE was also overnerfed.

Herald problem comes from 2 main issues:

• Facet of Nature casting has quarter of a second telling and even if you anticipate it, you can't evade or block it, nothing but i-frame works against it. I see claims that it can be evaded, if it can those are frame perfect moves because I never was able to. The radius of the attack is also too big, it needs to be nerfed down to 360 like Shiro was, there's a reason and uniformity is calling it also. The fact you can just passively be around and take away big conditions from people and send them back just as safely was maybe healthy in the past but now it's cancer.

• Infuse Light real problem comes from the fact when playing conditions you can EASILY full heal from it because there's no stopping the damage and it's an easy clear afterwards because you have Transfers and Shield. Cooldown or Resistance has little to do with it, stop messing with the wrong things. If you want to REALLY nerf it properly, you'll have to reduce the time Infuse Light lasts to 2 seconds instead, because unlike Defiant Stance once you have the Facet up, you can press it anytime altogether and that means it's really really really easy to pop it at an attack or condi stack that will heal a lot. I hear people say, "BUT IF YOU NERF DURATION IT'll BE GARBAGE" and I say calm down, to compensate for that, they should increase the raw healing from used by about 1.5k and you're set with a total of 3.353 start, on average people will absorb about 2k damage if they don't use it right and that puts it in line with all the other Revenant heals at 5k average. Then I hear the questions why should it be nerfed that way? Because that skill is literally a better Endure Pain, whether it have to be prepared or not from Facet of Light isn't an issue either because that's a quarter of a second itself which is easy work with. This also forces to play with Facet mechanics more.

[Tayga.3192]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:That's not a counterplay. It's like saying the counterplay to torment/confusion is to not move/use skills.Who would have thought?

You need to be very careful to notice the small icon under the player's name.Also the light emitting from them.

I agree that it needs to be nerfed, maybe shorter cd shorter duration (endure pain treatment) or longer cd same duration (someone explained why this is spammy).

[Eugchriss.2046]

@Xca.9721 said:Nerfing Infuse Light would also nerf Power Shiros sustain by a lot, since that build already struggles with Conditions. You should rather take a look at the resistance uptime condi rev is able to put out.You do know that there are other builds which uses Power Shiro without Herald? You do know that those builds were/are viable?I personally think that this is the root of the problem with Condi herald. It doesn't need to invest in sustain therefore, it takes all the damaging traits/rune/amu knowing that infuse light will have their back.Try to play something else than herald without investing in salvation/retribution. Try to play something else than herald without using healing/toughness amu. You will see how hard this skill carries all herald's builds.

[Xca.9721]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@"Xca.9721" said:Nerfing Infuse Light would also nerf Power Shiros sustain by a lot, since that build already struggles with Conditions. You should rather take a look at the resistance uptime condi rev is able to put out.You do know that there are other builds which uses Power Shiro without Herald? You do know that those builds were/are viable?I personally think that this is the root of the problem with Condi herald. It doesn't need to invest in sustain therefore, it takes all the damaging traits/rune/amu knowing that infuse light will have their back.Try to play something else than herald without investing in salvation/retribution. Try to play something else than herald without using healing/toughness amu. You will see how hard this skill carries all herald's builds.

"It doesn't need to invest in sustain" yet most condi revs use resistance runes/resistance traits in corruption traitline, some even use retribution. Why is that? Because Rev in general is weak to CC after the patch. Infuse Light doesn´t save you from getting Chain CCd to death.

[Shao.7236]

@"Xca.9721" said:"It doesn't need to invest in sustain" yet most condi revs use resistance runes/resistance traits in corruption traitline, some even use retribution. Why is that? Because Rev in general is weak to CC after the patch. Infuse Light doesn´t save you from getting Chain CCd to death.Herald Conditions that used Retribution instead of Invocation in the past were extremely vulnerable to CC, today ALL form of Revenants have the same weakness because Empty Vessel is gone, this is diversity taking place and that's nothing overpowered about those decisions because everything that you mention was nerfed and you're not taking it into account at all.

For an universal statement, everyone is even to CC sustain if you are in the context of the patch to which Revenant is still the strongest against it because not facerolling skills = easy stunbreak , after that;

• Steadfast Rejuvenation had it's heal per upkeep nerf.
• Unwavering Avoidance doesn't give stability anymore.
• Resistance Uptime was nerfed with the Mallyx nerfs because skills cannot be used at the same consistency, do the math. Max upkeep = 25 % Energy in 5 seconds which means when you're at 0% you still can't grasp for the ICD of Demonic Defiance.

All I can say is stop asking for the wrong nerfs before you kill this class diversity. OP has the right concept in mind but the wrong ideas on the approach.

Infuse Light saves you from any pressure during 3 seconds, recovering from it is an easy feat with shield or having the next legend ready/Facet of Chaos to mitigate the damage afterwards. Should Infuse Light duration be adjust to 2 seconds and the start heal buffed accordingly to about 3.5k, not the cooldown or effect.

[Xca.9721]

@Shao.7236 said:

@"Xca.9721" said:"It doesn't need to invest in sustain" yet most condi revs use resistance runes/resistance traits in corruption traitline, some even use retribution. Why is that? Because Rev in general is weak to CC after the patch. Infuse Light doesn´t save you from getting Chain CCd to death.Herald Conditions that used Retribution instead of Invocation in the past were extremely vulnerable to CC, today ALL form of Revenants have the same weakness because Empty Vessel is gone, this is diversity taking place and that's nothing overpowered about those decisions because everything that you mention was nerfed and you're not taking it into account at all.

For an universal statement, everyone is even to CC sustain if you are in the context of the patch to which Revenant is still the strongest against it because not facerolling skills = easy stunbreak , after that;

• Steadfast Rejuvenation had it's heal per upkeep nerf.
• Unwavering Avoidance doesn't give stability anymore.
• Resistance Uptime was nerfed with the Mallyx nerfs because skills cannot be used at the same consistency, do the math. Max upkeep = 25 % Energy in 5 seconds which means when you're at 0% you still can't grasp for the ICD of Demonic Defiance.

All I can say is stop asking for the wrong nerfs before you kill this class diversity. OP has the right concept in mind but the wrong ideas on the approach.

Infuse Light saves you from any pressure during 3 seconds, recovering from it is an easy feat with shield or having the next legend ready/Facet of Chaos to mitigate the damage afterwards. Should Infuse Light duration be adjust to 2 seconds and the start heal buffed accordingly to about 3.5k, not the cooldown or effect.

I didn´t mention anything specific that was nerfed, or do you mean the comment before mine? And I said that Rev in general is weak to CC (well, unless you take Jalis), not just Condi Rev.

[Koen.1327]

it's much weaker since you can just cc the rev and setup burst after

[KrHome.1920]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:It has counterplay, just don't attack. If that's something you're unable to do, well …I agree, though, rev's currently too tanky for the amount of damage they're able to dish out.

B-BUT RANGER!!!

That's not a counterplay. It's like saying the counterplay to torment/confusion is to not move/use skills.You need to be very careful to notice the small icon under the player's name. And Still, in more than 1v1 scenario, with all the aoe, the pets, etc.. going around this "counterplay" doesn't work.Anyways, all I want is a 15 secs cd increase so that all the "rev's main" aka herald's player will think twice before using it.Infuse Light is super easy to bait and to predict. You can still hard cc while it's active because this does not deal damage anymore.

Revenant's issues have never been based on Infuse Light (well at least since it has a cast time). In Power Shiro days it was the burst rotation while the revenant was basically immune to damage itself and now it's the torment stacking which might be a bit too good against targets that don't run cleansing sigil.

[Grimjack.8130]

Infuse Light is not an issue in of its self, but no good player will ever decide to target a Herald when they have their Glint Elite up over a different target; I very much dislike that and I'd go so far as to personally say its an issue.

[mortrialus.3062]

It's definitely a problem and I don't think there's any real obvious best way to fix it. Especially since in many ways Infuse Light being as strong as it is feels like its very much the glue that holds the entire revenant profession together.

Damage reversal is definitely extremely strong. Effectively a 3 second invulnerability. And theoretically on the current Mallyx Herald Build the skill can theoretically provide 913 Healing Per Second which is MASSIVE considering the average healing skill typically provides 250 healing per second when used off cooldown.

While you can say "It's fine just stow weapons" like sure that's one counter play if you're power. But in ranked you can't necessarily coordinate with teammates to stop attacking, especially if they're trading blows with someone else and the rev can simply absorb the cleave, or run into AoEs someone else popped. And if you're condi you can't stop your own condis. And in order to threaten a Herald on a condition build, you basically have to load him down with enough conditions to heal him to full when he pops it. As condi you've always had to operate on the notion that you just have to dump into the Infuse Light and hope you can kill him quickly enough afterwords before Infuse Light is off cooldown, which was fairly reasonable before the mega balance patch back when everyone was doing 2x as much damage as they are but definitely feels less so now.

Overall I think I'd like to see Facet of Light become and instant cast, and Infuse Light get a 0.5 to 0.75s cast time. I think if anything should really be nerfed about this skill it's how effectively unstoppable it is.

Readying Facet of Light has a 0.25 second cast time. This means that it's so fast that the revenant themselves at 70 ping will struggle to even be able to cancel cast their own Facet of Light if they try to. As a player you have almost no capacity to see, interpret, react, and interrupt the Facet heal before it's readied once you take ping into account. And the Facet is almost always popped long before the pivotal part of the fight where they're going to try to heal. You basically can't stop it. And even if you can, readying the Facet is done far, earlier than when the healing is typically needed so even if you're a reaction time god and interrupt it once most builds aren't going to be able to interrupt it over and over again and prevent it from ever being readied across a 20-30s fight. I think the skills would have a lot more counter play if readying the Facet was instant, but going into damage reversal has a cast time comparable with other healing skills so that smart reactive players who have saved cool downs specifically to interrupt the healing skill can actually do so.

I don't mind the damage reversal aspect of the skill I just dislike the unstoppable nature of it.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@Xca.9721 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Xca.9721 said:Nerfing Infuse Light would also nerf Power Shiros sustain by a lot, since that build already struggles with Conditions. You should rather take a look at the resistance uptime condi rev is able to put out.You do know that there are other builds which uses Power Shiro without Herald? You do know that those builds were/are viable?I personally think that this is the root of the problem with Condi herald. It doesn't need to invest in sustain therefore, it takes all the damaging traits/rune/amu knowing that infuse light will have their back.Try to play something else than herald without investing in salvation/retribution. Try to play something else than herald without using healing/toughness amu. You will see how hard this skill carries all herald's builds.

"It doesn't need to invest in sustain" yet most condi revs use resistance runes/resistance traits in corruption traitline, some even use retribution. Why is that? Because Rev in general is weak to CC after the patch. Infuse Light doesn´t save you from getting Chain CCd to death.

If you really think that condi herald takes corruption for resistances/self sustain trait then you re fooling yourself. They would have taken that too after POF release when scourge and mirage were everywhere. But nope.Resistance doesn t protect from CC and there is no more stab in retribution so your whole post doesn t make any sense. Or it's just I who got the whole thing wrong.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:It has counterplay, just don't attack. If that's something you're unable to do, well …I agree, though, rev's currently too tanky for the amount of damage they're able to dish out.

B-BUT RANGER!!!

That's not a counterplay. It's like saying the counterplay to torment/confusion is to not move/use skills.You need to be very careful to notice the small icon under the player's name. And Still, in more than 1v1 scenario, with all the aoe, the pets, etc.. going around this "counterplay" doesn't work.Anyways, all I want is a 15 secs cd increase so that all the "rev's main" aka herald's player will think twice before using it.Infuse Light is super easy to bait and to predict. You can still hard cc while it's active because this does not deal damage anymore.

Revenant's issues have never been based on Infuse Light (well at least since it has a cast time). In Power Shiro days it was the burst rotation while the revenant was basically immune to damage itself and now it's the torment stacking which might be a bit too good against targets that don't run cleansing sigil.

The burst wasn t the issue. It was the consequence. You can fully heal without investing in any trait or any stat, why the fuck would you still invest in sustain? This issue still persists on the current condi herald.And how exactly was it immune to damage if it wasn't for infuse light?

[Xca.9721]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Xca.9721 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Xca.9721 said:Nerfing Infuse Light would also nerf Power Shiros sustain by a lot, since that build already struggles with Conditions. You should rather take a look at the resistance uptime condi rev is able to put out.You do know that there are other builds which uses Power Shiro without Herald? You do know that those builds were/are viable?I personally think that this is the root of the problem with Condi herald. It doesn't need to invest in sustain therefore, it takes all the damaging traits/rune/amu knowing that infuse light will have their back.Try to play something else than herald without investing in salvation/retribution. Try to play something else than herald without using healing/toughness amu. You will see how hard this skill carries all herald's builds.

"It doesn't need to invest in sustain" yet most condi revs use resistance runes/resistance traits in corruption traitline, some even use retribution. Why is that? Because Rev in general is weak to CC after the patch. Infuse Light doesn´t save you from getting Chain CCd to death.

If you really think that condi herald takes corruption for resistances/self sustain trait then you re fooling yourself. They would have taken that too after POF release when scourge and mirage were everywhere. But nope.Resistance doesn t protect from CC and there is no more stab in retribution so your whole post doesn t make any sense. Or it's just I who got the whole thing wrong.

What I meant with this is that many condi Revs choose Demonic Defiance instead of Acolyte of Torment and Fiendish Tenacity over the more offensive trait lines. They choose resistance over more damage output (sustain over damage). You said that Condi Heralds use all the damaging traits/runes because they don´t need to invest in sustain due to Infuse Light, which is not true.

[Neil.3825]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:It has counterplay, just don't attack. If that's something you're unable to do, well …

Don't work with condi.

[ollbirtan.2915]

Wow....just WOW! Never thought we'd come to this ----as many have already said, Infuse Light is one of the easiest skill to counter play by .....NOT attacking. It's also so easy to see when a Herald uses it - besides the icon, and the blue aura, you should try and pay attention to those green floating animations when you are hitting a Herald under IL effect. Please, stop asking for more nerfs and try to improve your overall awareness instead.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Neil.3825 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:It has counterplay, just don't attack. If that's something you're unable to do, well …

Don't work with condi.

You mean you unloaded all your condi package in one go, and got punished?

Oh sweet damn, how to work that out....

[AliamRationem.5172]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:Wow....just WOW! Never thought we'd come to this ----as many have already said, Infuse Light is one of the easiest skill to counter play by .....NOT attacking. It's also so easy to see when a Herald uses it - besides the icon, and the blue aura, you should try and pay attention to those green floating animations when you are hitting a Herald under IL effect. Please, stop asking for more nerfs and try to improve your overall awareness instead.

Condi, ground effects, cleave. When should we stop using those exactly? I can certainly stop directly attacking the rev. But how do you stop all that other stuff?

[KrHome.1920]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:And how exactly was it immune to damage if it wasn't for infuse light?Because the burst rotation was a chain of something like: teleport > hard cc + damage > block that blinds > sword attack that evades > sword attack that chills > disengage that evades > kite > repeat

[ollbirtan.2915]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:Wow....just WOW! Never thought we'd come to this ----as many have already said, Infuse Light is one of the easiest skill to counter play by .....NOT attacking. It's also so easy to see when a Herald uses it - besides the icon, and the blue aura, you should try and pay attention to those green floating animations when you are hitting a Herald under IL effect. Please, stop asking for more nerfs and try to improve your overall awareness instead.

Condi, ground effects, cleave. When should we stop using those exactly? I can certainly stop directly attacking the rev. But how do you stop all that other stuff?

Deal with it? Predict the opponent action? Strategize? It isn't rocket science. And to think of it ---- you are basically asking to nerf into oblivion the only viable heal skill that Herald has.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Shao.7236they could make infuse reduce condi damage taken by 50-75%.having full hp heal every 30s that cant be stopped that also acts as 3s of invulnerability is a middle finger to any and all condi builds.It works fine against power, you attack me, you fucked up and I get healed.But if you eat 10k condi you can just chew it like a snack for big heals

[Neil.3825]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Neil.3825 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:It has counterplay, just don't attack. If that's something you're unable to do, well …

Don't work with condi.

You mean you unloaded all your condi package in one go, and got punished?

Oh sweet kitten, how to work that out....

Just pointing a fact, if you're a condi build infuse light is very powerful.