Request: Baseline pet boon transfer — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Request: Baseline pet boon transfer

Bri.8354Bri.8354 Member ✭✭
edited September 12, 2017 in Ranger

A feature I feel Rangers need, especially with the Soulbeast, is a baseline pet boon transfer.

Pets are swapped frequently to optimize cooldowns and utilize on swap effects, but each time you swap them all those boons go to waste. And now with the Soulbeast you’ll also be merging with your pet, wasting those boons even more often.

They’ve tried to address this to an extent with traits, but then you’re giving up other trait options just to address a core issue with the Ranger and even then it’s not a full solution.

We shouldn’t have to build our character for this. The Ranger needs a baseline full boon transfer to the next pet on swap and a baseline limited boon transfer to the player like Fresh Reinforcement on meld.

Comments

  • Agreed, wouldn't mind the ability to swap pets and merge to be a lil more fluid.

  • Well at this point is too late to make any new changes, i dont think anet will change much in just about 10 days of PoF releasing. Probably what we tried during the beta weekend is what we will get.

  • Durzlla.6295Durzlla.6295 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I mean, couldn't you just run fresh reinforcement + we heal as one if you're really running a build so set on your pet having boons?

    You've gotta keep in mind that as great as boons are, ranger only really generates swiftness, regen, and fury, and pet might in large quantities and then has limited access to prot quickness and self might so baseline boon transfer isn't super important for us.

    "But my children sing to me. Listen. They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family. As their mother, I have to grant them their wish."

  • Soilder.3607Soilder.3607 Member ✭✭✭

    @NemesiS.6749 said:
    Well at this point is too late to make any new changes, i dont think anet will change much in just about 10 days of PoF releasing. Probably what we tried during the beta weekend is what we will get.

    I'm sure they are going to change some things, but I don't believe anything will be too drastic. They had ample time to review and implement feedback.

    Certain bugs are guaranteed to be fixed, such as Doylak's Stance not working, or Smoke Assault not evading when used by the ranger.

    I would at the very least expect them to buff daggers and touch upon a few soulbeast traits that felt underwhelming, in addition to the bug fixes.

  • I think Fortifying Bond needs to be baseline for Ranger.

    I think the Ranger transferring his boons to the pet on un-meld should be baseline for the Soulbeast.

    I do not think Fresh Reinforcement needs to be baseline for the Soulbeast.

    That is additional boons on top of what you would normally have. I'm fine with having to select it as a trait, although it seems quite useless, unless you are also taking the Nature Magic line for Fortifying Bond. In which case you have two lines taken up, NM/SB taking it into PvP build territory, but, in which case with this boon hate meta, boons are likely to be a hindrance and you are just creating food for the corrupts.

  • Khenzy.9348Khenzy.9348 Member ✭✭✭

    This is a long time request. Rangers sharing boons from and to their pets should have always been a thing from the start. The pet is and always will be, in one way or another, a part of the Ranger, like a foot or an arm. I know it's a simple analogy, but this is the way it is and it's long overdue.

    Also, as an additional suggestion, what about We Heal as One functionality on other skills? Like a main mechanic as whole for the Ranger and the pet. Although this could come at the cost of shortening boon durations for obvious balance reasons, so I donno. /shrug.

  • psizone.8437psizone.8437 Member ✭✭✭

    @Durzlla.6295 said:
    I mean, couldn't you just run fresh reinforcement + we heal as one if you're really running a build so set on your pet having boons?

    You've gotta keep in mind that as great as boons are, ranger only really generates swiftness, regen, and fury, and pet might in large quantities and then has limited access to prot quickness and self might so baseline boon transfer isn't super important for us.

    The problem with leaving it as it is, is that you're pigeonholed into running the Nature Magic line and WHaO if you want your pet to have any meaningful boons on it, plus you need to run with the Beastmastery traitline to buff the pets base stats. Buffing the pet should have been all stuck into the Beastmastery line (if not made baseline) so we don't need to run 2 traitlines to do one thing .

    With its low cooldown and good healing, WHaO one will still be used even if its not the only heal that shares boons between pet and player, Like Khenzy suggested above.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Fortifing bond is always neccesary for boon builds and the corresponding soulbeast trait too.
    Both baseline would be fantastic. Maybe a nerf on WhaO but i could live with that.

  • @Khenzy.9348 said:
    This is a long time request. Rangers sharing boons from and to their pets should have always been a thing from the start. The pet is and always will be, in one way or another, a part of the Ranger, like a foot or an arm. I know it's a simple analogy, but this is the way it is and it's long overdue.

    Also, as an additional suggestion, what about We Heal as One functionality on other skills? Like a main mechanic as whole for the Ranger and the pet. Although this could come at the cost of shortening boon durations for obvious balance reasons, so I donno. /shrug.

    I seriously do not see why the durations need to be shortened, just copy them over. Ranger is balanced around having the pet do a portion of it's damage as a whole, that's why our power coefficients are terrible, so equal boons only bring it up to par.

    Look at other traits like Steady Focus, a flat 10% damage modifier. For anyone else, that is +10% more damage you output from your character. For Ranger it is less than that since the pet accounts for a portion and it not included in that 10%. Let's say that the pet accounts for 20% of the damage you output in a particular build, Steady Focus then is only adding 8% additional damage to the Ranger as a whole, with the pet.

    The same goes for defensive boons, the pet is a part of us and a portion of our functionality, it should benefit from all the defenses we have as well, since we are the only class that can completely lose it's class mechanic for periods of time.

    @psizone.8437 said:

    @Durzlla.6295 said:
    I mean, couldn't you just run fresh reinforcement + we heal as one if you're really running a build so set on your pet having boons?

    You've gotta keep in mind that as great as boons are, ranger only really generates swiftness, regen, and fury, and pet might in large quantities and then has limited access to prot quickness and self might so baseline boon transfer isn't super important for us.

    The problem with leaving it as it is, is that you're pigeonholed into running the Nature Magic line and WHaO if you want your pet to have any meaningful boons on it, plus you need to run with the Beastmastery traitline to buff the pets base stats. Buffing the pet should have been all stuck into the Beastmastery line (if not made baseline) so we don't need to run 2 traitlines to do one thing .

    With its low cooldown and good healing, WHaO one will still be used even if its not the only heal that shares boons between pet and player, Like Khenzy suggested above.

    That's right, you need NM and BM for traited WHaO as well as the additional stats, so NM/BM/SB is your only option for a boon build and it has very little condition clear and minimal damage output.

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Fortifing bond is always neccesary for boon builds and the corresponding soulbeast trait too.
    Both baseline would be fantastic. Maybe a nerf on WhaO but i could live with that.

    I said it before, but I don't think Fresh Reinforcement needs to be baseline since that is doubling up your boons, but Fortifying Bond needs to be baseline and direct copy of your boons to the pet upon leaving beastmode should also be baseline.

    No way WHaO needs a nerf for getting that.

  • Bri.8354Bri.8354 Member ✭✭
    edited September 13, 2017

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Fortifing bond is always neccesary for boon builds and the corresponding soulbeast trait too.
    Both baseline would be fantastic. Maybe a nerf on WhaO but i could live with that.

    I said it before, but I don't think Fresh Reinforcement needs to be baseline since that is doubling up your boons, but Fortifying Bond needs to be baseline and direct copy of your boons to the pet upon leaving beastmode should also be baseline.

    No way WHaO needs a nerf for getting that.

    This leaves out the issue of boons lost upon pet swap, but if that was addressed it may also work.

    And I wouldn't say it is doubling up your boons, you're just getting what was removed from your pet.

  • @Bri.8354 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Fortifing bond is always neccesary for boon builds and the corresponding soulbeast trait too.
    Both baseline would be fantastic. Maybe a nerf on WhaO but i could live with that.

    I said it before, but I don't think Fresh Reinforcement needs to be baseline since that is doubling up your boons, but Fortifying Bond needs to be baseline and direct copy of your boons to the pet upon leaving beastmode should also be baseline.

    No way WHaO needs a nerf for getting that.

    This leaves out the issue of boons lost upon pet swap, but if that was addressed it may also work.

    And I wouldn't say it is doubling up your boons, you're just getting what was removed from your pet.

    I actually have no drama with the pet not having boons after you swap it, since it is a different pet, it's a sacrifice you can choose to make if you want the different utility the other pet provides.

    It is doubling up your boons though, your pet will not have much in the way of boons that you do not have, so copying any boons it has to you effectively doubles the ones you have, or extends the durations of those that only stack duration. If Fortifying Bond was made baseline and you also copied your boons to your pet when you exited beastmode as baseline, then you could not have Fresh Reinforcement as a baseline as well because you could stack some boons on yourself which the pet also got, then enter beastmode, doubling the boons you have, then immediately exit so you and your pet would be able to stack 25 might permanently since the CD on beastmode is 10s, the same as the duration on the Might. With some boon duration it would be super easy to just continue stacking all boons, particularly with Essence of Speed. It would make Fresh Reinforcement a VERY good trait. As it is now, it's near useless without Nature Magic, which means you are already using two traitlines.

  • Bri.8354Bri.8354 Member ✭✭
    edited September 13, 2017

    @Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:
    I actually have no drama with the pet not having boons after you swap it, since it is a different pet, it's a sacrifice you can choose to make if you want the different utility the other pet provides.

    Both pets and weapons are swapped for many of the same reasons and share many of the same benefits. They could remove boons from the player on a weapon swap citing the same reason you gave, but it wouldn't make the game play better and neither does pet boon loss on swap.

    @Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:
    If Fortifying Bond was made baseline and you also copied your boons to your pet when you exited beastmode as baseline, then you could not have Fresh Reinforcement as a baseline as well because you could stack some boons on yourself which the pet also got, then enter beastmode, doubling the boons you have, then immediately exit so you and your pet would be able to stack 25 might permanently since the CD on beastmode is 10s, the same as the duration on the Might. With some boon duration it would be super easy to just continue stacking all boons, particularly with Essence of Speed. It would make Fresh Reinforcement a VERY good trait. As it is now, it's near useless without Nature Magic, which means you are already using two traitlines.

    I don't think anyone was suggesting they include all of these together, but yes, that's a problem that could occur. For this reason they should only implement Fresh Reinforcement (give pet boons to the player on meld) or the inverse you suggested (give player boons to the pet upon breaking meld), not both in conjunction.

  • If they want soulbeasts to jump in and out ot the melded form sharing your boons with the pet when you exit is a must, at least in any pve scenario.

  • I don't like the idea of fortifying bond being baseline nor do I think pet swap should give the new pet the prior pet's boons. Instead, I think there need to be more traits/skills that individually buff the pet.

    -Like if warhorn 5 buffed 5 people AND the pet, that would be better than a weak baseline fortifying bond.
    -Instead of just predator's onslaught being the only trait that buffs the ranger/pet, most (pets don't wield greatswords and axes for example) % modifiers traits should affect both ranger/pet. Rune of the ranger could also give 7% bonus to the pet.
    -Hidden barbs should boost ranger and pet bleeds by 33%.
    -Hunter's gaze should also give might to the pet when the pet attacks.
    -Taste for danger, gets it right by giving expertise to both ranger and pet.

    From a PvP/WvW balance perspective, baseline fortifying bond basically gives a lot more damage/freedom to the general concept of a BM/NM/Druid pet/boon build archetype but lets the ranger itself gear tankier while dmg comes from an even beefier pet. It also means that the pet at a baseline has to be balanced at whatever boons someone else can give the ranger instead of what the ranger gives the pet. Having boons transfer on pet swap would mean that a tanky pet can build up boons then transfer it to a glassy pet for a burst that would bypass the WHAO tax. If you want those boons to transfer, I also think on some level it would be fair to say that conditions have to transfer too. So yeah, not the same as weapon swap because weapon swap doesn't reset your health.

    By making more of the individual traits and skills transfer boon/buffs, it doesn't delete the BM/NM/Druid build but also gives the option for more glassier/focused builds. Want to full zerker MM, Skirm, BM? Grab all the % modifiers and hunter's gaze/potent allies. Go Axe/Wh + Sw/Axe. Importantly, grab a pet that is power focused too. Now the pet will hit 25 might in REAL scenarios while have some nice modifiers. Condi ranger does what condi ranger currently does with a lynx but now the pet does 33% more bleed/poison damage.

    Other possibilities. Give sword auto 1 stack of might for 15 seconds (5 is pathetic for the 3rd hit on an auto) to your pet. This is the sustainy buff the pet weapon. Give Maul 10 stacks of might for 5 seconds to the pet. That becomes a more bursty weapon in which both you and the pet hit harder burst but less sustain. Buff Maul's base damage and remove the problematic 50% AoO. Prot on dodge for the pet isn't a weapon skill but kind of gets to that idea. Dagger 4 could give prot/regen to the pet when cast.

  • @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    From a PvP/WvW balance perspective, baseline fortifying bond basically gives a lot more damage/freedom to the general concept of a BM/NM/Druid pet/boon build archetype but lets the ranger itself gear tankier while dmg comes from an even beefier pet. It also means that the pet at a baseline has to be balanced at whatever boons someone else can give the ranger instead of what the ranger gives the pet. Having boons transfer on pet swap would mean that a tanky pet can build up boons then transfer it to a glassy pet for a burst that would bypass the WHAO tax. If you want those boons to transfer, I also think on some level it would be fair to say that conditions have to transfer too. So yeah, not the same as weapon swap because weapon swap doesn't reset your health.

    I'm looking at this from a PvE perspective, but yeah, considerations probably need to be made for PvP. Just another thing to add to the "why we need to split game mode balance" list.

  • All the split game mode balance that is currently in the game are number splits not functionality splits. I am all for something like GS auto having a 0.8 coeff in PvE and 0.55 coeff in WvW and PvP. Having the warhorn 5 mechanically change to buff your pet and 5 allies can work in all game modes so while it changes the current function slightly, it can change in all game modes. Importantly, the devs could actually implement those. Having a trait be baseline in PvE but a real trait in PvP/WvW is not something the devs will do because that is a functionality split which they are very much against.