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Thieves ruin WvW


Gondolph.7201

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@Virdo.1540 said:Its time to nerf the stealth. This is ridiculous.

Stealth is the same kind of buff than SuperSpeed is. Not a boon, not removable etc.

Why cant stealth just be like Superspeed then? The Duration of SuperSpeed doesnt stack, and it always takes the newest(or longest? ) Apply of the buff.Stealth should be exactly the same. It shouldnt stack in duration.

Or doest it makes sense? If i throw one smokebomb on my ground ,im invisible for some secs. If i throw 2 smokebombs im automatically stealth for twice the time? This is stupid.

Well, there are one or two skills where that wouldnt make sense (Shadow Refuge, maybe sneak Gyro), but yeah, sure, that would probably be a fine change. Basically eliminates permastealth, and allows for in-combat stealth to be buffed.

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@Virdo.1540 said:Its time to nerf the stealth. This is ridiculous.

Stealth is the same kind of buff than SuperSpeed is. Not a boon, not removable etc.

Why cant stealth just be like Superspeed then? The Duration of SuperSpeed doesnt stack, and it always takes the newest(or longest? ) Apply of the buff.Stealth should be exactly the same. It shouldnt stack in duration.

Or doest it makes sense? If i throw one smokebomb on my ground ,im invisible for some secs. If i throw 2 smokebombs im automatically stealth for twice the time? This is stupid.

They would have to adjust some traits and stuff because rapid reapplication would only make my build a little stronger. I would like to have the option to stack stealth out of combat (I use it to travel and scout a lot without attacking) with a gradual reveal by proximity and then combat application capped at like 4 seconds. I would have a harder time shaking people off to reset but I could still set up something precise by choosing to use cooldowns if I want a sure thing but then in combat I wouldn't be totally nerfed.

Any idea or approach is going to generate it's problems that might not be apparent right away, hopefully the simplest solution wins out.

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@Zok.4956 said:

@Tuna Bandit.3786 said:Tell me this: Does your Zerg leave a single roamer alone trying to capture a sentury? I doubt it, you likely will use the Massive power of the zerg to steamroll the poor roamer without him giving a fighting chance. Am I right? AM I?!?!?!…But they are when they have to kill that single player, even if the player is retreating... that's not fighting that's slaughter... yet you see it constantly.

Not all commanders/zergs act the same way.

With the commanders and zergs, that I usually run with, it is the standard, that we do not chase single players/roamers and that we just ignore them and go around them and do not attack. And if some zerglings try to chase roamers, they are told by the commander and other players, not to do this. Unless of course, the roamers attack first and try to pick players from the zerg, then the zerg defends itself.

I love fighting zergs like that. I usually follow them and pick them off. By the time they reach their destination they've lost a third of their zerg.

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Random other idea... but what if moving in stealth left some subtle footprints (like leggies do but almost see-through shadowy footprints) so if you don't wanna give yourself away, then don't move, but if you are moving there's some counterplay. Then perhaps sentry marked etc can be changed to just make those footprints much more visible (and dot on map) rather than completely knocking thief out of stealth. Also, it's more roleplay :P.

lol nvm this idea was already had in another thread! Ironically by someone named FLEE twilight zone

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101057/i-have-an-interesting-suggestion-about-stealth

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Hello. I don't want to attack or hurt anyone.

After the patch, DE thieves are no longer a problem.Practice your class, learn exactly what each skill does.If you get better, you can defeat them easily.

Problems with thieves are no longer due to class mechanics.

Try a Warri FB or Guard and practice.

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@Brujeria.7536 said:They should just add a 3 second reveal whenever thief comes out of stealth, even when stealth just expires. Also stealth should not stack. This would turn stealth more into a tactical combat tool instead of the unbalanced and unfun mechanic it is currently.

Do you have problems with thief?

Edit:With fullglass oneshot perma stealth de thief

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@Brujeria.7536 said:They should just add a 3 second reveal whenever thief comes out of stealth, even when stealth just expires. Also stealth should not stack. This would turn stealth more into a tactical combat tool instead of the unbalanced and unfun mechanic it is currently.

That would just kill in-combat stealth which is already dead, while not affecting out of combat stealth. Stealth not stacking however would work. Do that, and in-combat stealth can be buffed to be a viable choice rather than the joke it has been for years.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:They should just add a 3 second reveal whenever thief comes out of stealth, even when stealth just expires. Also stealth should not stack. This would turn stealth more into a tactical combat tool instead of the unbalanced and unfun mechanic it is currently.

That would just kill in-combat stealth which is already dead, while not affecting out of combat stealth. Stealth not stacking however would work. Do that, and in-combat stealth can be buffed to be a viable choice rather than the joke it has been for years.

Well it would, if a thief have 3 seconds reveal everytime stealth ends and if stealth does not stack anymore there will be regular 3 second windows to spot / kill / pressure the thief.

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@Nirari.4827 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:They should just add a 3 second reveal whenever thief comes out of stealth, even when stealth just expires. Also stealth should not stack. This would turn stealth more into a tactical combat tool instead of the unbalanced and unfun mechanic it is currently.

Do you have problems with thief?

Edit:With fullglass oneshot perma stealth de thief

No, i have problems with stealth in GW2 in general. Thief is the biggest offender because he has the most stealth access.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:They should just add a 3 second reveal whenever thief comes out of stealth, even when stealth just expires. Also stealth should not stack. This would turn stealth more into a tactical combat tool instead of the unbalanced and unfun mechanic it is currently.

That would just kill in-combat stealth which is already dead, while not affecting out of combat stealth. Stealth not stacking however would work. Do that, and in-combat stealth can be buffed to be a viable choice rather than the joke it has been for years.

In combat stealth is not joke , you simply dont know how it worksDota has 12-20 sec cd , in each classGiving theopponent enought time to box it out with the stealth guy , before he vanish

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@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:They should just add a 3 second reveal whenever thief comes out of stealth, even when stealth just expires. Also stealth should not stack. This would turn stealth more into a tactical combat tool instead of the unbalanced and unfun mechanic it is currently.

That would just kill in-combat stealth which is already dead, while not affecting out of combat stealth. Stealth not stacking however would work. Do that, and in-combat stealth can be buffed to be a viable choice rather than the joke it has been for years.

In combat stealth is not joke , you simply dont know how it works

It is a joke. I know how it works, you clearly dont (though you also clearly just dont know anything about thief in general, given that you think Quick Pockets is better than Sleight of Hand). Why do you think no thief build actually goes for in-combat stealth, and why it is no thief build actively focused on stealth at all for 4 years? Like seriously, from HoT to the first half of last year, no stealth thief build existed at all. D/P focused entirely on headshot. The only one that was was permastealth oneshot cheese, but that one either killed you instantly, or died instantly, with no in-between. It didnt use stealth either. Oh and it wasnt actually good. Just really frustrating.

Dota has 12-20 sec cd , in each classGiving theopponent enought time to box it out with the stealth guy , before he vanish

Actually, Riki restealths every 2 seconds. Shukuchi only has 2 seconds between stealth uses. And the other ones have stealth durations that last longer than the cooldown, so they can exit stealth and immediately reenter it.

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@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:They should just add a 3 second reveal whenever thief comes out of stealth, even when stealth just expires. Also stealth should not stack. This would turn stealth more into a tactical combat tool instead of the unbalanced and unfun mechanic it is currently.

That would just kill in-combat stealth which is already dead, while not affecting out of combat stealth. Stealth not stacking however would work. Do that, and in-combat stealth can be buffed to be a viable choice rather than the joke it has been for years.

Well it would, if a thief have 3 seconds reveal everytime stealth ends and if stealth does not stack anymore there will be regular 3 second windows to spot / kill / pressure the thief.

Point is, youre nerfing something that is already so bad, no build goes for it. The only build that even uses in-combat stealth is rifle DE, and it tries to lose said stealth ASAP.

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As I stated in another thread adding 10 sec reveal CD on stealth, if thief takes damage would reward good play and punish bad play. A good thief with its evades and teleportation skills should be able to still be able to stack stealth,set up their ambush and attack. After their ambush burst if they use their many evades to avoid being hit they can still stealth and decide to stay engaged or to disengage. If a thief makes a bad play and is hit after its engagement than it should be punished with a 10 sec stealth reveal CD. This still allows a good thief to 100% keep its playstyle and punishes thieves who fail to use their evades to avoid damage.

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@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:As I stated in another thread adding 10 sec reveal CD on stealth, if thief takes damage would reward good play and punish bad play. A good thief with its evades and teleportation skills should be able to still be able to stack stealth,set up their ambush and attack. After their ambush burst if they use their many evades to avoid being hit they can still stealth and decide to stay engaged or to disengage. If a thief makes a bad play and is hit after its engagement than it should be punished with a 10 sec stealth reveal CD. This still allows a good thief to 100% keep its playstyle and punishes thieves who fail to use their evades to avoid damage.

What that does is make the permastealth oneshot, or general out of combat stealth remain broken, while making in-combat stealth go from "basically unusable" to "literally unusable". its a terrible idea.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:As I stated in another thread adding 10 sec reveal CD on stealth, if thief takes damage would reward good play and punish bad play. A good thief with its evades and teleportation skills should be able to still be able to stack stealth,set up their ambush and attack. After their ambush burst if they use their many evades to avoid being hit they can still stealth and decide to stay engaged or to disengage. If a thief makes a bad play and is hit after its engagement than it should be punished with a 10 sec stealth reveal CD. This still allows a good thief to 100% keep its playstyle and punishes thieves who fail to use their evades to avoid damage.

What that does is make the permastealth oneshot, or general out of combat stealth remain broken, while making in-combat stealth go from "basically unusable" to "
literally
unusable". its a terrible idea.

No what it does is still allows the assassin class enough stealth uptime through stacking to still cover ground to engage with a ambush or for disengagment. If a thief makes a good play and engages with a burst and follows up with its attacks while using its evades properly avoiding damage it suffers zero penalties to its current playstyle but if it is struck gets punished with the 10 sec reveal CD removing one of two of its carry fail safes that allow it to leave any fight before dying at will. If a thief still wants to disengage during that cooldown it will have its teleports via utilities or infiltrator arrow.This allows a good thief to keep its playstyle that its accustomed to throughout all these years but punishes it slightly if mistakes are made.As much as I like the thief class players can't be blamed on wanting invisibility changed in it's current form. Thief would be better off if mechanics like this were balanced better allowing thief to gain some of its damage back onto its weapon skills to avoid this one trick pony, spamming and one dimensional playstyle all weaponset are right now.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:As I stated in another thread adding 10 sec reveal CD on stealth, if thief takes damage would reward good play and punish bad play. A good thief with its evades and teleportation skills should be able to still be able to stack stealth,set up their ambush and attack. After their ambush burst if they use their many evades to avoid being hit they can still stealth and decide to stay engaged or to disengage. If a thief makes a bad play and is hit after its engagement than it should be punished with a 10 sec stealth reveal CD. This still allows a good thief to 100% keep its playstyle and punishes thieves who fail to use their evades to avoid damage.

What that does is make the permastealth oneshot, or general out of combat stealth remain broken, while making in-combat stealth go from "basically unusable" to "
literally
unusable". its a terrible idea.

No what it does is still allows the assassin class enough stealth uptime through stacking to still cover ground to engage with a ambush or for disengagment. If a thief makes a good play and engages with a burst and follows up with its attacks while using its evades properly avoiding damage it suffers zero penalties to its current playstyle but if it is struck gets punished with the 10 sec reveal CD removing one of two of its carry fail safes that allow it to leave any fight before dying at will. If a thief still wants to disengage during that cooldown it will have its teleports via utilities or infiltrator arrow.This allows a good thief to keep its playstyle that its accustomed to throughout all these years but punishes it slightly if mistakes are made.

Yes, thats what I said. It makes out of combat stealth remain untouched, and in-combat stealth even more useless. Despite the fact that out of combat stealth is the problem, and in-combat stealth is already useless. Besides you seem to think its at all doable to avoid 100% of damage as a thief after bursting (or even while bursting). Spoiler: Its not. At all. You might as well just say "stealth can now only be used out of combat for cheesy oneshots". Which is one of the changes that would make stealths design even worse than it already is.

Oh and it breaks a couple Mesmer and Engineer skills.

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@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:That build is an easy kill lol. Now p/d is suddenly a problem?ps - do you have some kind of rss feed or something to alert you whenever thief related stuff gets posted on youtube? it's hilarious. You could actually be spending all this time creatively thinking about sane fixes for thief players but instead chose to go down the toxic road. Please, if anything see how this isn't a good look.

Power, Condition and Bunker is how Guild Wars 2 balance itself. Just like everyone else,Thief Profession adjusts itself with the meta of choice.

The Toxic road in all of this is and why this isn't a good look is...... for the past 8 years......there is nothing new to this

-No Lessons Were Learned-
  1. Thief Profession can still +1 shot
  2. Thief Profession condition is still Toxic
  3. Thief Profession can still perma-stealth
  4. Thief Profession can still stack stealth
  5. Thief Profession Mechanics and Skills remain Toxic
  6. Thief Profession Teleport continue to be exploitable
  7. Thief Profession is still Bad Design

The only remedy to this is for a complete redesign or to completely remove this profession altogether

until than......Guild Wars will never coexist with Toxicity

Y4ifWoO.jpg

As I've said before, you just straight up hate thief. You base your position on that emotional reaction rather than relying on on any logical argument. It's fine to hate the class, just admit it for what it is dude.

On a more personal note, be careful how you quote the Bible. I don't imagine God likes His words being taken out of context any more than we do.

As someone indifferent I think thief getting a rework to remove stealth, and give them more interesting/fun tools would be good for everyone. Thieves would feel better and people would probably enjoy fighting them more. Leave stealth to say... one elite spec? Like thats dead-eyes gimick and its strictly tied to them due to the way they function, but core and daredevil rely more on fluid movements and precise strikes. Turn shadow arts into shadow magic, and make them have a form of magic of their very own as it already feels as if it is magic. Make them feel unique to what their aesthetic and role within fantasy, and fantasy worlds are at this stage in the game and make them stand apart from rogues.

This then would give new E-specs and our current ones a defined role, at least better and more defined with what we have now.

Core= Brawler, based on under-handed tactics but more sustained fights.Daredevil= quicker but squishier, based on shut-down builds and quick bursts followed by escapes.Deadeye=Stealthy, burst with limited value due to its single target potential and the fact that stealth can't be stacked or made permanent anymore.future=anything

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:They should just add a 3 second reveal whenever thief comes out of stealth, even when stealth just expires. Also stealth should not stack. This would turn stealth more into a tactical combat tool instead of the unbalanced and unfun mechanic it is currently.

That would just kill in-combat stealth which is already dead, while not affecting out of combat stealth. Stealth not stacking however would work. Do that, and in-combat stealth can be buffed to be a viable choice rather than the joke it has been for years.

In combat stealth is not joke , you simply dont know how it works

It is a joke. I know how it works, you clearly dont (though you also clearly just dont know anything about thief in general, given that you think Quick Pockets is better than Sleight of Hand). Why do you think no thief build actually goes for in-combat stealth, and why it is no thief build actively focused on stealth at all for
4 years
? Like seriously, from HoT to the first half of last year, no stealth thief build existed at all. D/P focused entirely on headshot. The only one that was was permastealth oneshot cheese, but that one either killed you instantly, or died instantly, with no in-between. It didnt use stealth either. Oh and it wasnt actually good. Just really frustrating.

Dota has 12-20 sec cd , in each classGiving theopponent enought time to box it out with the stealth guy , before he vanish

Actually, Riki restealths every 2 seconds. Shukuchi only has 2 seconds between stealth uses. And the other ones have stealth durations that last
longer
than the cooldown, so they can exit stealth and immediately reenter it.

First of all you said to see Dota that is n e-sport game .Why you turn around and simply go circular discussion again ?

Dota has 12-20 sec cdLets copy it

Yeah Riki and they have a slight animation oprotunity , wherehe doesn go sstealth imidiatly ?Why not do this here too ?

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@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:They should just add a 3 second reveal whenever thief comes out of stealth, even when stealth just expires. Also stealth should not stack. This would turn stealth more into a tactical combat tool instead of the unbalanced and unfun mechanic it is currently.

That would just kill in-combat stealth which is already dead, while not affecting out of combat stealth. Stealth not stacking however would work. Do that, and in-combat stealth can be buffed to be a viable choice rather than the joke it has been for years.

In combat stealth is not joke , you simply dont know how it works

It is a joke. I know how it works, you clearly dont (though you also clearly just dont know anything about thief in general, given that you think Quick Pockets is better than Sleight of Hand). Why do you think no thief build actually goes for in-combat stealth, and why it is no thief build actively focused on stealth at all for
4 years
? Like seriously, from HoT to the first half of last year, no stealth thief build existed at all. D/P focused entirely on headshot. The only one that was was permastealth oneshot cheese, but that one either killed you instantly, or died instantly, with no in-between. It didnt use stealth either. Oh and it wasnt actually good. Just really frustrating.

Dota has 12-20 sec cd , in each classGiving theopponent enought time to box it out with the stealth guy , before he vanish

Actually, Riki restealths every 2 seconds. Shukuchi only has 2 seconds between stealth uses. And the other ones have stealth durations that last
longer
than the cooldown, so they can exit stealth and immediately reenter it.

First of all you said to see Dota that is n e-sport game .Why you turn around and simply go circular discussion again ?

I am trying to explain to you what you dont understand.

Dota has 12-20 sec cdLets copy it

It doesnt. 2 seconds on Weaver and Riki. The only ones that have 12-20 second cd are the ones whose duration is so long, they can be in stealth and have it off cooldown. In simpler terms, they can go out of stealth, kill you, and stealth instantly.

Yeah Riki and they have a slight animation oprotunity , wherehe doesn go sstealth imidiatly ?Why not do this here too ?

.... Revealed. Youre thinking of revealed. Youre describing Revealed.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:That build is an easy kill lol. Now p/d is suddenly a problem?ps - do you have some kind of rss feed or something to alert you whenever thief related stuff gets posted on youtube? it's hilarious. You could actually be spending all this time creatively thinking about sane fixes for thief players but instead chose to go down the toxic road. Please, if anything see how this isn't a good look.

Power, Condition and Bunker is how Guild Wars 2 balance itself. Just like everyone else,Thief Profession adjusts itself with the meta of choice.

The Toxic road in all of this is and why this isn't a good look is...... for the past 8 years......there is nothing new to this

-No Lessons Were Learned-
  1. Thief Profession can still +1 shot
  2. Thief Profession condition is still Toxic
  3. Thief Profession can still perma-stealth
  4. Thief Profession can still stack stealth
  5. Thief Profession Mechanics and Skills remain Toxic
  6. Thief Profession Teleport continue to be exploitable
  7. Thief Profession is still Bad Design

The only remedy to this is for a complete redesign or to completely remove this profession altogether

until than......Guild Wars will never coexist with Toxicity

Y4ifWoO.jpg

As I've said before, you just straight up hate thief. You base your position on that emotional reaction rather than relying on on any logical argument. It's fine to hate the class, just admit it for what it is dude.

On a more personal note, be careful how you quote the Bible. I don't imagine God likes His words being taken out of context any more than we do.

As someone indifferent I think thief getting a rework to remove stealth, and give them
more interesting/fun
tools would be good for everyone.
Thieves would feel better
and people would probably enjoy fighting them more. Leave stealth to say... one elite spec? Like thats dead-eyes gimick and its strictly tied to them due to the way they function, but core and daredevil rely more on fluid movements and precise strikes. Turn shadow arts into shadow magic, and make them have a form of magic of their very own as it already feels as if it is magic. Make them feel unique to what their aesthetic and role within fantasy, and fantasy worlds are at this stage in the game and make them stand apart from rogues.

This then would give new E-specs and our current ones a defined role, at least better and more defined with what we have now.

Core= Brawler, based on under-handed tactics but more sustained fights.Daredevil= quicker but squishier, based on shut-down builds and quick bursts followed by escapes.Deadeye=Stealthy, burst with limited value due to its single target potential and the fact that stealth can't be stacked or made permanent anymore.future=anything

Using personal and group stealth is interesting and fun. I would not feel good about losing stealth entirely apart from the one build that has enough re-stealth effects and both obvious visual and audible tells to be shut down consistently but it being so obvious makes it the build that gets other builds nerfed by consequence. I don't find sparkly clowds of particle effects interesting or fun but in no way am I going to expect someone else's game play to be squashed because I need a handicap.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:They should just add a 3 second reveal whenever thief comes out of stealth, even when stealth just expires. Also stealth should not stack. This would turn stealth more into a tactical combat tool instead of the unbalanced and unfun mechanic it is currently.

That would just kill in-combat stealth which is already dead, while not affecting out of combat stealth. Stealth not stacking however would work. Do that, and in-combat stealth can be buffed to be a viable choice rather than the joke it has been for years.

In combat stealth is not joke , you simply dont know how it works

It is a joke. I know how it works, you clearly dont (though you also clearly just dont know anything about thief in general, given that you think Quick Pockets is better than Sleight of Hand). Why do you think no thief build actually goes for in-combat stealth, and why it is no thief build actively focused on stealth at all for
4 years
? Like seriously, from HoT to the first half of last year, no stealth thief build existed at all. D/P focused entirely on headshot. The only one that was was permastealth oneshot cheese, but that one either killed you instantly, or died instantly, with no in-between. It didnt use stealth either. Oh and it wasnt actually good. Just really frustrating.

Dota has 12-20 sec cd , in each classGiving theopponent enought time to box it out with the stealth guy , before he vanish

Actually, Riki restealths every 2 seconds. Shukuchi only has 2 seconds between stealth uses. And the other ones have stealth durations that last
longer
than the cooldown, so they can exit stealth and immediately reenter it.

First of all you said to see Dota that is n e-sport game .Why you turn around and simply go circular discussion again ?

I am trying to explain to you what you dont understand.

Dota has 12-20 sec cdLets copy it

It doesnt. 2 seconds on Weaver and Riki. The only ones that have 12-20 second cd are the ones whose duration is so long, they can be in stealth
and
have it off cooldown. In simpler terms, they can go out of stealth, kill you, and stealth instantly.

Yeah Riki and they have a slight animation oprotunity , wherehe doesn go sstealth imidiatly ?Why not do this here too ?

.... Revealed. Youre thinking of revealed. Youre describing Revealed.

Look the dota pageIf he atacks for 1 sec > he wont get stealthIf he gain stealth , he cannot attack for an extra secHe cannot also dodge .So for 2 sec can freely punish him with aoes and if get freezed he cannotgo far

This is what + Fade (delay stealth) we must implantPlus potions or jungle Buffs to see the enemy siluet , regadles if he has stealth

You said it !You pointed it to tme that game

Edit: Plz dont tell me that you love circular conversation and you get mad , for some1 else doing the same ...

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@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:They should just add a 3 second reveal whenever thief comes out of stealth, even when stealth just expires. Also stealth should not stack. This would turn stealth more into a tactical combat tool instead of the unbalanced and unfun mechanic it is currently.

That would just kill in-combat stealth which is already dead, while not affecting out of combat stealth. Stealth not stacking however would work. Do that, and in-combat stealth can be buffed to be a viable choice rather than the joke it has been for years.

In combat stealth is not joke , you simply dont know how it works

It is a joke. I know how it works, you clearly dont (though you also clearly just dont know anything about thief in general, given that you think Quick Pockets is better than Sleight of Hand). Why do you think no thief build actually goes for in-combat stealth, and why it is no thief build actively focused on stealth at all for
4 years
? Like seriously, from HoT to the first half of last year, no stealth thief build existed at all. D/P focused entirely on headshot. The only one that was was permastealth oneshot cheese, but that one either killed you instantly, or died instantly, with no in-between. It didnt use stealth either. Oh and it wasnt actually good. Just really frustrating.

Dota has 12-20 sec cd , in each classGiving theopponent enought time to box it out with the stealth guy , before he vanish

Actually, Riki restealths every 2 seconds. Shukuchi only has 2 seconds between stealth uses. And the other ones have stealth durations that last
longer
than the cooldown, so they can exit stealth and immediately reenter it.

First of all you said to see Dota that is n e-sport game .Why you turn around and simply go circular discussion again ?

I am trying to explain to you what you dont understand.

Dota has 12-20 sec cdLets copy it

It doesnt. 2 seconds on Weaver and Riki. The only ones that have 12-20 second cd are the ones whose duration is so long, they can be in stealth
and
have it off cooldown. In simpler terms, they can go out of stealth, kill you, and stealth instantly.

Yeah Riki and they have a slight animation oprotunity , wherehe doesn go sstealth imidiatly ?Why not do this here too ?

.... Revealed. Youre thinking of revealed. Youre describing Revealed.

Look the dota pageIf he atacks for 1 sec > he wont get stealthIf he gain stealth , he cannot attack for an extra secHe cannot also dodge .So for 2 sec can freely punish him with aoes and if get freezed he cannotgo far

No, actually, if he gains stealth he can attack immediately. The only time you can hit him without him being in stealth is the 2 seconds between stealth. Oh, except even then he has a talent for permanent invisibility, which makes even that not work.

This is what + Fade (delay stealth) we must implantPlus potions or jungle Buffs to see the enemy siluet , regadles if he has stealth

We dont have to implement it, because its already implemented. There is no way to gain stealth without a delay (other than a trait noone uses) on thief. I hate repeating myself, so Im not going to do it again.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:As I stated in another thread adding 10 sec reveal CD on stealth, if thief takes damage would reward good play and punish bad play. A good thief with its evades and teleportation skills should be able to still be able to stack stealth,set up their ambush and attack. After their ambush burst if they use their many evades to avoid being hit they can still stealth and decide to stay engaged or to disengage. If a thief makes a bad play and is hit after its engagement than it should be punished with a 10 sec stealth reveal CD. This still allows a good thief to 100% keep its playstyle and punishes thieves who fail to use their evades to avoid damage.

What that does is make the permastealth oneshot, or general out of combat stealth remain broken, while making in-combat stealth go from "basically unusable" to "
literally
unusable". its a terrible idea.

No what it does is still allows the assassin class enough stealth uptime through stacking to still cover ground to engage with a ambush or for disengagment. If a thief makes a good play and engages with a burst and follows up with its attacks while using its evades properly avoiding damage it suffers zero penalties to its current playstyle but if it is struck gets punished with the 10 sec reveal CD removing one of two of its carry fail safes that allow it to leave any fight before dying at will. If a thief still wants to disengage during that cooldown it will have its teleports via utilities or infiltrator arrow.This allows a good thief to keep its playstyle that its accustomed to throughout all these years but punishes it slightly if mistakes are made.

Yes, thats what I said. It makes out of combat stealth remain untouched, and in-combat stealth even more useless. Despite the fact that
out of combat
stealth is the problem, and
in-combat
stealth is already useless. Besides you seem to think its at all doable to avoid 100% of damage as a thief after bursting (or even while bursting). Spoiler: Its not. At all. You might as well just say "stealth can now only be used out of combat for cheesy oneshots". Which is one of the changes that would make stealths design
even worse
than it already is.

Oh and it breaks a couple Mesmer and Engineer skills.

Out of combat stealth isn't really a issue, a assassin class should be able set up ambushes etc.

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