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Do we need more weapons?


Chungo.3169

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Yes we do. Long time ago, when Anet decided to remake both skills on sword off-hand, the suggestion was to create a brand new weapons instead. But... too lazy to create additional animations. So.. we are here. I do not think it will ever happen. Nethier would hybrid builds.

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Yes we need more options given that weapons are our form of customization. Honestly I wouldn't mind if they changed weapons to do as trident did, offering up more customization in what you can run even though we all know specific weapons would do better in specific parameters. So unless you care about min-maxing it doesn't matter, it can make it worthwhile for rev players. Many weapons are terrible and are in a horrible state competitively especially after last balance patch, so now we are in a situation where our build craft is even more limited than it had been before the patch.

  • We need a core ranged weapon outside of hammer, Scepter would do well to pay homage to the side of us that is ritualist in nature.
  • We need more off-hands, Focus could be good, torch could be good, warhorn or even dagger... anything to add into that role. Right now all we have is Axe/Sword and these two are limited especially now. We need more variety to play with
  • We need one more core legend to go with Invocation which can act as a role filler, so that you can use this legend to fit whatever build you may want. Make it function like trident and merely be the jack of all trades; This way this legend can offer us new ways to play while leaving room for E-specs and not hindering the process of an E-spec for the next expansion. I vote that since EVERYONE is fighting about ritualist, we shove that legend (Be it togo or otherwise) onto invocation and make the mall about meditations, where we can maintain our energy more fluently. Pair this with a Scepter/Focus on Invocation and make these two + Trident linked to that traitline and we can have an extra legend. As for skills it should be a ranged legend as we don't have one for core, we have a healer (Ventari), a Tank (Jalis), A condi-melee (Mallyx) and a Power (Shiro). We lack a legend for ranged encounters and we have AoE semi-set in terms of melee. So where we fall off is ranged fire-power so the skills and those weapons should be predominately more focused around casting. Thus it solves some of the biggest failings of the class...
  • Some of our animations need work, and functionality on skills need to be brought back. Sword/Sword should be a dueling weapon with a block and should not be turned into just a dump all over people and bounce out. (male norn sword 3 looks just... ridiculous why can't we have the same animation like everyone else? Or something akin to thief D/D 3 on male norn? Anything...)

I can already hear people complaining "Revenant gets so much favoritism REEEEEE, MY CLASS NEED NEW TOYS TOO REEEE!!!" before you start hear me out. In terms of tools we are SO limited on our weapons; We literally don't have a single functioning ranged weapon and we really just camp one weapon-set now. You don't go ranged unless you absolutely have too and making ANOTHER ranged E-spec won't help this once so ever it leaves the core issue as it is currently. We are one of the most limited in terms of customization which fully comes from our weapons, not our utilities. So three more weapons to close the gap maybe four, One ranged and two/three off-hands maybe just so that way we have more tools to play with. I mean for the first four years of the classes life we had ONE underwater weapon, which we all knew needed to change because thats some BS.

Or heck, Scepter + Focus and leave it at that? They fulfill the ranged niche we lack right now and if you make it work like trident it can fulfill any role. This means we would have a underwater and on land set-up to run with that can fill for us. It also keeps you from worry about "Rev's lack range" when you go into make an E-spec and opens doors you couldn't of opened otherwise. The class feels a bit unfinished and it feels like its missing something, this might not be the best change but honestly it seems the easiest to pull off as well would take much less time than reworking the whole class. (Parts of it currently work really well, the nerfs his rev really hard though outside of condi)

So we need one more legend, id go for an evil ritualist of some-kind. We need one more weapon set for at least one more off-hand/main-hand and then you can make a new E-spec without fear of it being received poorly due to its nature. I don't want every single spec we get in expansions to be limited to filling the ranged side of our kit, Id love to see more unique melee styles come from rev. This can't happen if we lack good ranged pressure and with hammer in its state and being primarily a power weapon anyhow, we kind of are left with nothing. (shortbow is terrible.)

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Yes. Another core option such as Scepter and Focus or Longbow would be great. Not only do I think the Revenant needs more core weapons they also need more utility skills in general.

My ideal Addition would be one more Legendary stance skill so you'll always have one of your legend's skills benched and a set of 4 Signets which you can use on any Legend that would be swapped in and out of like a normal utility on their kit.

A less ideal situation for me, but I'd still agree to is just another legendary stance.

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Yes please. I wish i would have a offhand weapons, that can be used as every build.

Not sword for power, axe for condi(shield....)

something else. Like a kind of supportive horn or somaybe one horn skill does something like necros plague horn skill (forgot the name) , while the other makes the rev evade for 3secs (but as tradeoff maybe not be able to attack with weapon skills)

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Im knew to GW2 but not MMO's. This is one of the few that dont have great axes. Something in between the great sword and hammer. Less slash than GS and less impact than a hammer but equal in balance. Slicing for the 1, a poke style bash with the head giving an unbalancing effect to the foe for the 2, a sweep with the handle for the 3, a similar sweeping multiple knockdown with the 4 like the hammer and maybe a baton like spin move for the 5. (Just off the top of my head)

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We could use more mainhand and offhands.

I hate having ONLY Mace for Condi builds because it is pretty heavy weight of a weapon, offering absolutely no utility, just lots of damage damage damage damage.A Mainhand Axe would be nice as a more "lightweight" Condi weapon, with some utility

Offhand Mace would be nice for a more heavy Power set which focuses on CC, since SotM is GARBAGE for CCing bosses now.

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A core ranged condi weapon for the non renegades would be a good addition. Perhaps it can offer some good defensive abilities whilst throwing some condis in the mix.

But more so, a bunch of our current weapons need fixing/polishing, such as hammer. It's in a really bad place right now.

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I've been saying it basically since HoT and Revenant launched but the class needs a bit of an overhaul tbh, on the level of the mesmer phantasm changes a while back. IMO the core class needs one more legend (to have the same amount of utility skills available as every other class, still excluding racial skills) and another weapon that provides another ranged option and adds some more variable options. My suggestion would be something like a mid-range mainhand dagger. This makes the most sense to me as Revenants tend to use weapons in weird and unique ways (ranged dagger skills = cool as hell) and also these forum pages feature official art that literally shows a Revenant holding a dagger.

PS weapon skills shouldn't cost energy

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  • 7 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

As cool as the slow, heavy hitting rev hammer theme is, it's a terrible design for how combat is in this game. It's too slow to be a dps weapon, too slow to be a good secondary or tagging weapon, too little support to be of any use there, most skills are skillshot's, and because of it's ability to be stacked in WvW and can have crazy burst on focused targets, it's solo burst is gimped. It worked decently with the old Impossible Odds because of the quickness, so maybe an increase in rate of fire would be enough, but possibly OP with quickness. Maybe change the auto attack to be a weaker 3 round burst per swing, but the extra hits could trigger more effects like lifesteal in kalla and shiro.

And then like everyone else has said, there is no core legend or center piece for core revenant. There are like no good complimentary legends or weapons within the core profession causing every e-spec to be loaded with all the short coming of core rev. I think this makes rev e-spec unfocused and a little bit like they have an identity disorder. Herald is supposed to be the support profession, but the boons it provides aren't unique or substantial, shield is absolute hot garbage, there's no support weapons, and Kalla, the dps spec, ends up being a better support class just because it provides alacrity. Now lets look at kalla, it's all over the place with condi and power damage. It's sorta nice to be able to play both power and condi builds with kalla since Herald is a little lack luster at the moment, but it comes at an annoying cost in terms of getting a bunch of random ferocity bonuses for condi builds or power builds still not having a really good dps weapon or options, instead using shortbow just because it has a higher rate of fire than hammer.

so yeah, we need new weapons with core to create more combinations for especs, and we need another core legend.

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@ScottBroChill.3254 said:As cool as the slow, heavy hitting rev hammer theme is, it's a terrible design for how combat is in this game. It's too slow to be a dps weapon

Thats not the problem. The problem with slow hitting weapons is damage:cast time ratio. I like the slow weapon desing as long theres a real punch behind it. In this game slow weapons are mediocre due to too low damage numbers and if by miracle one happens to be decent it will cause massive QQ fiesta on forums until tis nerfed into ground. I am personally up to rework hammer into dps melee weapon and get a condi gs in next elite spec tho

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I honestly don't see how you can say this when rev is probably the only class where every weapon is actually solid and functional. Power is fine with dual swords, condi is great with mace/axe, staff is a great utility with excellent defensive and cc abilities (you don't need it to be great for healing since your legend skills provides a good healing kit), shortbow does do decent ranged condi or power damage in a pinch (both are perfectly functional and on par with most other class' ranged options), hammer has a good place in wvw and shield fills in the role that shield does for most classes who have it in being a good defensive tool in pvp.

It would be worth noting that engineer and to some degree elementalist suffer much more from their limited weapon choices, engineer is entirely reliant on spending their utility skills or tied into using holo elite to access meaningful damage as their weapons are functionally limited and poor across the board compared to all other classes.

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@Psykewne.3025 said:It would be worth noting that engineer and to some degree elementalist suffer much more from their limited weapon choices, engineer is entirely reliant on spending their utility skills or tied into using holo elite to access meaningful damage as their weapons are functionally limited and poor across the board compared to all other classes.

Yur comparing 3 classes which are so functionally different it's not a fair comparison.

Ele has functionally 20 weaponskills in combat which they can swap into with their own cooldowns.

Engineer has Toolbelt utilities which make up for them using a Utility slot for a Toolkit.But if yur talking about how Engineer has no weaponswap if they choose not to use Toolkits, then I wonder why yu are playing Engi in the first place whose power is all in their toolkits.

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@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@ScottBroChill.3254 said:As cool as the slow, heavy hitting rev hammer theme is, it's a terrible design for how combat is in this game. It's too slow to be a dps weapon

Thats not the problem. The problem with slow hitting weapons is damage:cast time ratio. I like the slow weapon desing as long theres a real punch behind it. In this game slow weapons are mediocre due to too low damage numbers and if by miracle one happens to be decent it will cause massive QQ fiesta on forums until tis nerfed into ground. I am personally up to rework hammer into dps melee weapon and get a condi gs in next elite spec tho

Yeah, agreed, but your point goes on to why the slow, heavy hitting ranged weapon can't be a dps weapon because of spike potential when stacked. Like in WvW where you get multiple revs using coalescence of ruin on a single target and eliminating them, so rev hammer gets nerfed more. Same thing happened with deadeyes rifle and deaths judgment. This causes the heavy hitting weapons damage to drop below spike potential, but the attack speed is still too slow for dps potential. Anet doesn't really like spike damage in this game because of the lack of counterplay in pvp, and the devs not wanting to put in the work to balance a weapon between multiple game modes. Deadeye rifle sorta gets away with it because they do have burst attacks built in and more utility and self buffs. The utility on rev hammer is just the i-frame of skill 3 and a smoke field that blocks, which is cool, but you can barely take advantage of the lifesteal combo because the attack speed is too slow. So now the only redeeming quality of hammer is 1200 range and the ability to sling a hammer every 5 seconds missing tagging every mob, but with such uselessness it should be changed into more of a support role or should be buffed in rate of fire so it can at least be a good secondary tagging weapon for core and herald. Or even make it a power, DOT, AOE type weapon like a caster profession staff so at least it can have some area denial/control.

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Yeah, I think there's a need for at least one more weapon. Partially because core revenant has nothing that a condi rev can switch to that really works apart from mace with a different offhand. Partially because, whatever you think about the state of hammer, only having one ranged weapon makes revs very sensitive to the balance state of that weapon.

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Justine.6351 said:rev needs a warhorn with skills that grant boons.

Rev needs an ANYTHING which is support based.

It's so strange that Rev is the only Profession which has blatant support capabilities (Ventari for example) but no weapon that provides support.Unless yu count Staff. (ROFLMAO)

ArenaNet does count Staff, though...

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:And then like everyone else has said, there is no core legend or center piece for core revenant. There are like no good complimentary legends or weapons within the core profession causing every e-spec to be loaded with all the short coming of core rev.

That's not quite true. Jalis makes for a decent power melee damage legend with hammers, and outside of raid "I just want to deal maximum damage and rely on the healers to keep me alive" scenarios, having a more defensive off-legend is often worthwhile. Jalis can also work as support, albeit usually in the form of tossing RotGD to achieve damage reduction. Condi is probably the hardest to get an off-legend for - Shiro used to work before the Impossible Odds nerf, and kinda does if you spam the alternate source of Quickness, and Jalis can provide durability, but both are really 'least bad' options. There isn't a 'this legend can be added to anything' legend (although Jalis probably comes closest), but you can generally find a combination that works with core. Some combinations work a lot better with an elite specialisation legend to add to the mix, of course, but I've seen power builds in the meta which used an elite traitline but still ran Shiro/Jalis, and it's not uncommon for professions to need an elite specialisation to really make a non-power role viable (particularly support/healer).

Which might really be the intent of the core legends: you've got one that fulfills virtually each role; one for power, one for condi, one for durability, and one for healing. Which means they have the freedom to make an elite spec oriented towards any of these roles knowing that there's a core legend that supports it. There isn't one that's designed so you can add it to any of those and it would reinforce it, but I think the idea is that, similar to elementalist attunements (which broadly cover similar roles between them: fire is usually hybrid damage, water healing, air power damage and mobility, and earth condition damage and durability) having a second legend with a different focus to the first still gives you more versatility and adaptability rather than if you just had the one. Any glass cannon build, for instance, can benefit from having a more durability-oriented legend to fall back on, and a selfless healer like Ventari also benefits from a legend that makes them tougher and grants them better ability to heal themselves (typically a weakness of Ventari).

Mind you, it could be interesting if Revenant had a fifth core stance that wasn't a legend at all, but gave revenant access to a small selection of skills they could choose (including racial skills) - with those skills generally being weaker than skills that came as part of a legend package, but allowing for the "if all you want to do is X, this stance allows you to build something that will complement your primary legend". I don't think there's any realistic chance of that happening at this stage, though.

@Psykewne.3025 said:It would be worth noting that engineer and to some degree elementalist suffer much more from their limited weapon choices, engineer is entirely reliant on spending their utility skills or tied into using holo elite to access meaningful damage as their weapons are functionally limited and poor across the board compared to all other classes.

Engineer is designed on the expectation that you're running at least one kit (or holoforge) to act as their equivalent of a weaponswap, however. Kitless is certainly something you can do, but it's not the expected style. That said, I think they could do with a mainhand melee weapon on core.

Elementalist... generally has one or two attunements that they rarely swap to with any given build, but they do alright. Especially considering that they have the option to bring conjures to fill in for any gaps in their weapon. They certainly don't have the situation that core revenant (and herald) has where hammer is the ONLY option for ranged, so if they want to have a ranged presence at all they have to use hammer regardless of how bad it is. Elementalist staff is suffering a bit at the moment from what I gather, but scepter is a decent alternative, and if you've got two weapons it's less likely that they'll both be so bad that they're practically memes outside of a specific scenario that maximises their effectiveness.

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@Yasai.3549 said:

@Psykewne.3025 said:It would be worth noting that engineer and to some degree elementalist suffer much more from their limited weapon choices, engineer is entirely reliant on spending their utility skills or tied into using holo elite to access meaningful damage as their weapons are functionally limited and poor across the board compared to all other classes.

Yur comparing 3 classes which are so functionally different it's not a fair comparison.

Ele has functionally 20 weaponskills in combat which they can swap into with their own cooldowns.

Engineer has Toolbelt utilities which make up for them using a Utility slot for a Toolkit.But if yur talking about how Engineer has no weaponswap if they choose not to use Toolkits, then I wonder why yu are playing Engi in the first place whose power is all in their toolkits.

I would argue actually that revenant demonstrates how much more valuable in a build a proper weapon swap is over the more narrow switches that both ele and engineer have. Remember rev was originally designed as having no weapon swap also so is a very fair comparison of the differing design philosophies and i would argue that the argument for rev having weapon swap is just as relevant for ele and engineer in many respects.

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@"Psykewne.3025" said:

I would argue actually that revenant demonstrates how much more valuable in a build a proper weapon swap is over the more narrow switches that both ele and engineer have. Remember rev was originally designed as having no weapon swap also so is a very fair comparison of the differing design philosophies and i would argue that the argument for rev having weapon swap is just as relevant for ele and engineer in many respects.

Rev could have worked with no weapon swap : If their skills functioned similarly to Elementalist's and swapped based on current Legend.Engineer never had that problem, because Kits were essentially a 2nd, 3rd or 4th weapon set they can equip, and still have a utility through their toolbelt.

Core Revenants for the longest time never had a mechanic utility until they got Ancient Echo a couple years back, and before the whole trade-off stuff.But even so, Revenant and Ele are more similar due to their "stance swap" mechanic than Engi, which lugs around several weapon sets instead of swapping between stances and still having utilities to play with.

And before yu have the audacity to suggest Toolbelt utilities are weak, Engi has alot of darn good Toolkit-Toolbelt Utilities such as :

  • Healing Mist which is a Stunbreak and Regen.
  • Big Ol Bomb which is a really wide AoE CC.
  • And last but not least, the infamous Grenade Barrage which is used in PvP to effectively 1 shot squishier builds.
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