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Flandre.2870

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You complain about Core Necros with 3 defensive traitlines dealing 0 dmg and having 0 stability. There are only 2 ppl in top20 atm which played MOSTLY core necro. 5+ ppl are playing reaper (its better in this meta) and 1 scourge. If you lose to full bunker punching ball core necro, maybe you deserve it :)

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@Moyo.3987 said:You complain about Core Necros with 3 defensive traitlines dealing 0 dmg and having 0 stability. There are only 2 ppl in top20 atm which played MOSTLY core necro. 5+ ppl are playing reaper (its better in this meta) and 1 scourge. If you lose to full bunker punching ball core necro, maybe you deserve it :)

Yeah the condi bomb with fear and torment deals zero dmg

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@Avatar.3568 said:

@Moyo.3987 said:You complain about Core Necros with 3 defensive traitlines dealing 0 dmg and having 0 stability. There are only 2 ppl in top20 atm which played MOSTLY core necro. 5+ ppl are playing reaper (its better in this meta) and 1 scourge. If you lose to full bunker punching ball core necro, maybe you deserve it :)

Yeah the condi bomb with fear and torment deals zero dmgCore can't condibomb and if you don't take one or two stunbreaks, then you deserve the loss even more.

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@Moyo.3987 said:You complain about Core Necros with 3 defensive traitlines dealing 0 dmg and having 0 stability. There are only 2 ppl in top20 atm which played MOSTLY core necro. 5+ ppl are playing reaper (its better in this meta) and 1 scourge. If you lose to full bunker punching ball core necro, maybe you deserve it :)

Yeah the condi bomb with fear and torment deals zero dmgCore can't condibomb and if you don't take one or two stunbreaks, then you deserve the loss even more.

I have those numbers by my self. Core condi necro can do Extremely dumb condition numbers.If you are out of stunbreaks and your stab is transformed in fear, and he gets the fear chain you are lost in condi numbers

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@Avatar.3568 said:

@Moyo.3987 said:You complain about Core Necros with 3 defensive traitlines dealing 0 dmg and having 0 stability. There are only 2 ppl in top20 atm which played MOSTLY core necro. 5+ ppl are playing reaper (its better in this meta) and 1 scourge. If you lose to full bunker punching ball core necro, maybe you deserve it :)

Yeah the condi bomb with fear and torment deals zero dmgCore can't condibomb and if you don't take one or two stunbreaks, then you deserve the loss even more.

I have those numbers by my self. Core condi necro can do Extremely dumb condition numbers.If you are out of stunbreaks and your stab is transformed in fear, and he gets the fear chain you are lost in condi numbers

What about not using ur stability when you see that enemy necro is playing with corrupt boon? Core bunker necro has 2 sources of fear, Staff 5 (high cd) and shroud 3. If you die to this because you facetanked all conditions earlier and you are not using stunbreaks, you just deserve it. Where is the condi bomb on bunker core necro btw?

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:necro damage is not the problem, necro CC is not the problem, they are just too tanky.If anything necro could use some more reliable CC.

problem is, if you aren't careful and nerf the sustain of a necro, they become free kills.

They already got nerfed in sustain and before they were basically free kill to most classes.

All it takes is a big nerf and they get kicked out of 2v2 and 5v5 again.

They would basically need the kinda evades n stuff other classes have if sustain gets nerfed, plus nerfing life force is a double-edged sword, it hits both offensive and defensive.

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Necro should build life force off of skills and not auto attacks. Why does Axe 1 passively generate lifeforce? Why not make Axe 2 generate life force and generate additional life force at high vuln stacks?

Dagger 2 literally saps life from its target. It could be changed to sap life force in addition to hp if the target is bleeding. Give players a way to interact with this mechanic and it will feel less like the necro is able to live for an eternity while literally afk.

Also why did Unholy Sanctuary avoid the 300 sec CD nerf bat? I'm curious to hear Anet's reasoning on this one. Is it really that much weaker than Lesser Arcane Shield?

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@Kuma.1503 said:Necro should build life force off of skills and not auto attacks. Why does Axe 1 passively generate lifeforce? Why not make Axe 2 generate life force and generate additional life force at high vuln stacks?

Dagger 2 literally saps life from its target. It could be changed to sap life force in addition to hp if the target is bleeding. Give players a way to interact with this mechanic and it will feel less like the necro is able to live for an eternity while literally afk.

Also why did Unholy Sanctuary avoid the 300 sec CD nerf bat? I'm curious to hear Anet's reasoning on this one. Is it really that much weaker than Lesser Arcane Shield?

you don't know what you're talking about.

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@Kuma.1503 said:Necro should build life force off of skills and not auto attacks. Why does Axe 1 passively generate lifeforce? Why not make Axe 2 generate life force and generate additional life force at high vuln stacks?

Dagger 2 literally saps life from its target. It could be changed to sap life force in addition to hp if the target is bleeding. Give players a way to interact with this mechanic and it will feel less like the necro is able to live for an eternity while literally afk.

Also why did Unholy Sanctuary avoid the 300 sec CD nerf bat? I'm curious to hear Anet's reasoning on this one. Is it really that much weaker than Lesser Arcane Shield?

Unholy sanctuary has some healing in it while in shroud if life force is above threshhold.

Arcane shield is a block that can explode and a breakstun.

1 has 30 sec cd the other has 40 sec cd two different things, and 300 seconds is nuts, its waaaay too huge, its a massive nerf.

A 300 sec on a sustain that cannot avoid dmg and have to eat is nuts and it would make unholy sanctuary completely unviable.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Kuma.1503" said:Necro should build life force off of skills and not auto attacks. Why does Axe 1 passively generate lifeforce? Why not make Axe 2 generate life force and generate additional life force at high vuln stacks?

Dagger 2 literally saps life from its target. It could be changed to sap life force in addition to hp if the target is bleeding. Give players a way to interact with this mechanic and it will feel less like the necro is able to live for an eternity while literally afk.

Also why did Unholy Sanctuary avoid the 300 sec CD nerf bat? I'm curious to hear Anet's reasoning on this one. Is it really that much weaker than Lesser Arcane Shield?

you don't know what you're talking about.

Well gee, when you make a counterargument like that I can't help but agree.

Is it not a common complaint that Necro is either immortal or a free kill depending on how numbers are balanced? I say, give players a way to play around the life force mechanic and introduce an element of counterplay to Necro's sustain so that, in the event that a Necro is living for a long time, you can point to the players and say "Well why didn't you dodge X? You had bleeding on you yet you let them hit the entire channel of Life Siphon on you?"

As always, I enjoy these kinds of discussions. If you think this is a bad idea for whatever reason, I'd like to know why.

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@Axl.8924 said:

Unholy sanctuary has some healing in it while in shroud if life force is above threshhold.

Doesn't this add value to the trait and make the 10x difference in cooldown between UH and LAS make even less sense

Arcane shield is a block that can explode and a breakstun.

1 has 30 sec cd the other has 40 sec cd two different things, and 300 seconds is nuts, its waaaay too huge, its a massive nerf.

A 300 sec on a sustain that cannot avoid dmg and have to eat is nuts and it would make unholy sanctuary completely unviable.

If i'm not mistaken, making these passive life saving traits unviable was the point. Lesser Arcane shield already had stiff competition from the other traits on it's row pre-nerf. Now, with the CD increase, it's so weak that it's not worth taking. Anet did this by design so these traits would not muddy things up when determining how the sweeping changes would effect the overall time to kill. Anet should either stay consistent on this or get rid of the rediculous 300cd on these traits to begin with. `

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The issue I have is not all passives are bad, and some classes actively depend on such things to survive, unless you can replace said things which are just as strong active mechanics, which is hard since they got a lot of passive traits which would need to be overhauled.

And on top of that, you cannot compare ele and necro, they just don't play the same. Sure ele has tons of melee range stuff but ele has different tools for different situations.

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@Kuma.1503 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

Unholy sanctuary has some healing in it while in shroud if life force is above threshhold.

Doesn't this add value to the trait and make the 10x difference in cooldown between UH and LAS make even less sense

Arcane shield is a block that can explode and a breakstun.

1 has 30 sec cd the other has 40 sec cd two different things, and 300 seconds is nuts, its waaaay too huge, its a massive nerf.

A 300 sec on a sustain that cannot avoid dmg and have to eat is nuts and it would make unholy sanctuary completely unviable.

If i'm not mistaken, making these passive life saving traits unviable was the point. Lesser Arcane shield already had stiff competition from the other traits on it's row pre-nerf. Now, with the CD increase, it's so weak that it's not worth taking. Anet did this by design so these traits would not muddy things up when determining how the sweeping changes would effect the overall time to kill. Anet should either stay consistent on this or get rid of the rediculous 300cd on these traits to begin with. `

They have stayed consistent. The skil could use s higher CD but not 300s.

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Necro should build life force off of skills and not auto attacks. Why does Axe 1 passively generate lifeforce? Why not make Axe 2 generate life force and generate additional life force at high vuln stacks?

Dagger 2 literally saps life from its target. It could be changed to sap life force in addition to hp if the target is bleeding. Give players a way to interact with this mechanic and it will feel less like the necro is able to live for an eternity while literally afk.

Also why did Unholy Sanctuary avoid the 300 sec CD nerf bat? I'm curious to hear Anet's reasoning on this one. Is it really that much weaker than Lesser Arcane Shield?

you don't know what you're talking about.

Well gee, when you make a counterargument like that I can't help but agree.

Is it not a common complaint that Necro is either immortal or a free kill depending on how numbers are balanced? I say, give players a way to play around the life force mechanic and introduce an element of counterplay to Necro's sustain so that, in the event that a Necro is living for a long time, you can point to the players and say "Well why didn't you dodge X? You had bleeding on you yet you let them hit the entire channel of Life Siphon on you?"

As always, I enjoy these kinds of discussions. If you think this is a bad idea for whatever reason, I'd like to know why.

They said you have no idea what you are talking about because axe 1 generated no LF at all.

Plus all the classes than generate a resource can do so with an auto attack and it's not passive.

Also most LF does come from skills. It's just for some reason people ignore them. At the start of the game you would see people, in this forum, saying to avoid skills X/Y/Z to deny LF , not powering into SA or SW to deny LF..etc but you don't see that anymore.

The only thing that needs looking at on necro is blood magic at the moment.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:necro damage is not the problem, necro CC is not the problem, they are just too tanky.If anything necro could use some more reliable CC.

problem is, if you aren't careful and nerf the sustain of a necro, they become free kills.

They already got nerfed in sustain and before they were basically free kill to most classes.

All it takes is a big nerf and they get kicked out of 2v2 and 5v5 again.

They would basically need the kinda evades n stuff other classes have if sustain gets nerfed, plus nerfing life force is a double-edged sword, it hits both offensive and defensive.

I know, for all its worth necro mechanic is by far the most toxic I have seen in any game.Its always going to be broken or garbage, its how raw HP works in games.They gotta rework shroud I thinkMB make % of damage in shroud go through to HP but give them some extras.Some skills should eat nerfs but be cast faster, necro never runs out of skills to use, constant 3/4s cast on everything, its boring and has no combos whatsoever.IT needs to lose alot of the passives, every mark gives lifeforce without even landing, passive signets passive ticks passive aoue around pulsing aoe, its all shit design. all of it.

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@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

Unholy sanctuary has some healing in it while in shroud if life force is above threshhold.

Doesn't this add value to the trait and make the 10x difference in cooldown between UH and LAS make even less sense

Arcane shield is a block that can explode and a breakstun.

1 has 30 sec cd the other has 40 sec cd two different things, and 300 seconds is nuts, its waaaay too huge, its a massive nerf.

A 300 sec on a sustain that cannot avoid dmg and have to eat is nuts and it would make unholy sanctuary completely unviable.

If i'm not mistaken, making these passive life saving traits unviable was the point. Lesser Arcane shield already had stiff competition from the other traits on it's row pre-nerf. Now, with the CD increase, it's so weak that it's not worth taking. Anet did this by design so these traits would not muddy things up when determining how the sweeping changes would effect the overall time to kill. Anet should either stay consistent on this or get rid of the rediculous 300cd on these traits to begin with. `

They have stayed consistent. The skil could use s higher CD but not 300s.

They said you have no idea what you are talking about because axe 1 generated no LF at all.

Plus all the classes than generate a resource can do so with an auto attack and it's not passive.

Also most LF does come from skills. It's just for some reason people ignore them. At the start of the game you would see people, in this forum, saying to avoid skills X/Y/Z to deny LF , not powering into SA or SW to deny LF..etc but you don't see that anymore.

The only thing that needs looking at on necro is blood magic at the moment.

ty for the clarification. At one point I ended up playing necro for the sake of learning what the class did and and thought that axe 1 was my lf generator. Would explain why I never had any life force ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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@Moyo.3987 said:You complain about Core Necros with 3 defensive traitlines dealing 0 dmg and having 0 stability. There are only 2 ppl in top20 atm which played MOSTLY core necro. 5+ ppl are playing reaper (its better in this meta) and 1 scourge. If you lose to full bunker punching ball core necro, maybe you deserve it :)

this says 8 out of the top 20 use some form of necro?

that's like 40% representation in the top 20 among 9 professions

it's worth a sniff.

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