Pls fix this condi meta

[Crusartas.9502]

E.g. firebrand and mirage is unplayable against. It is wayyyy to overpowered.pls nerf their damage and tankiness.

[Tayga.3192]

Firebrand is either hybrid (sage) or power (mender)Only a few people can play mirage good

Only cRev is very good as a condi build in this meta, condi is fine for now, move along.

[Bazsi.2734]

Man I wish I could fight all those condibuilds you guys meet. I'm here in powerland and it's really getting boring. #Buffcondi

[rng.1024]

Condi is fine and all, but can we please get rid of pulsing PbAoE applications and start loading skills with an animation, cast time and fields instead?

We already saw this being an issue with burn guard back in the day (they had 1 trait that did this), then came fire Weaver and now condi Rev.

The only counterplay if you fight melee (which some professions have to) is to build for a certain amount of cleanse/sec in order to keep pressure up, it's not reactive in the least.

Look at Berserker, it was a condi build done right where you had to avoid key skills and stay out of fields, but you could win it without any cleanse at all if you played smart - you can double condi damage for all I care (you should get punished for tanking) as long as they go into telegraphed abilities.

[Tayga.3192]

@rng.1024 said:Condi is fine and all, but can we please get rid of pulsing PbAoE applications and start loading skills with an animation, cast time and fields instead?

We already saw this being an issue with burn guard back in the day (they had 1 trait that did this), then came fire Weaver and now condi Rev.

The only counterplay if you fight melee (which some professions have to) is to build for a certain amount of cleanse/sec in order to keep pressure up, it's not reactive in the least.

Look at Berserker, it was a condi build done right where you had to avoid key skills and stay out of fields, but you could win it without any cleanse at all if you played smart - you can double condi damage for all I care (you should get punished for tanking) as long as they go into telegraphed abilities.

To be honest, torch and warhorn are PbAoE weapons. I don't think they are a big issue, EXCEPT WHEN THEY HAVE A DURATION.They shouldn't have a duration but an animation followed by the effect.

Lingering AoE skills shouldn't be on weapons anyway.

[rng.1024]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@rng.1024 said:Condi is fine and all, but can we please get rid of pulsing PbAoE applications and start loading skills with an animation, cast time and fields instead?

We already saw this being an issue with burn guard back in the day (they had 1 trait that did this), then came fire Weaver and now condi Rev.

The only counterplay if you fight melee (which some professions have to) is to build for a certain amount of cleanse/sec in order to keep pressure up, it's not reactive in the least.

Look at Berserker, it was a condi build done right where you had to avoid key skills and stay out of fields, but you could win it without any cleanse at all if you played smart - you can double condi damage for all I care (you should get punished for tanking) as long as they go into telegraphed abilities.

To be honest, torch and warhorn are PbAoE weapons. I don't think they are a big issue, EXCEPT WHEN THEY HAVE A DURATION.They shouldn't have a duration but an animation followed by the effect.

Lingering AoE skills shouldn't be on weapons anyway.

I don't have an issue with current iterations of off hand weapon skills, but moreso with utility skills playing a major part in your condi burst, aswell as applications with no tell whatsoever from traits, weapswap etc.

I'd welcome much higher stacks on weapon skills and fields over constant applications, it's just silly given they f.ex removed pulsing stab to allow counterplay a while ago and your choice now is to:

a) Cleanse early and take big dmg laterb) Cleanse in the middle for constant pressurec) Cleanse at the end after big dmg

No matter what you do it's irrelevant, you will take the same amount of dmg anyways unless you don't play the game. And when the pulsing application is on cooldown they still have all their regular kit up and ready.

You can see it with all iterations of condition builds after PoF (rev, firebrand, daredevil, weaver, mirage).

[UNOwen.7132]

@rng.1024 said:Condi is fine and all, but can we please get rid of pulsing PbAoE applications and start loading skills with an animation, cast time and fields instead?

We already saw this being an issue with burn guard back in the day (they had 1 trait that did this), then came fire Weaver and now condi Rev.

The only counterplay if you fight melee (which some professions have to) is to build for a certain amount of cleanse/sec in order to keep pressure up, it's not reactive in the least.

Look at Berserker, it was a condi build done right where you had to avoid key skills and stay out of fields, but you could win it without any cleanse at all if you played smart - you can double condi damage for all I care (you should get punished for tanking) as long as they go into telegraphed abilities.

Id go one step further, rework condi from ground up. Make condi cleanse no longer cleanse damage conditions but only impairing (weakness, Immob, Chill, Fear etc.) ones (keep resistance around, its basically the protection analogue), and then change condi damage and application to fit with that. So more telegraphed skills, damage in line with how avoidable the skill is, and in general damage waaaay down.

[rng.1024]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@rng.1024 said:Condi is fine and all, but can we please get rid of pulsing PbAoE applications and start loading skills with an animation, cast time and fields instead?

We already saw this being an issue with burn guard back in the day (they had 1 trait that did this), then came fire Weaver and now condi Rev.

The only counterplay if you fight melee (which some professions have to) is to build for a certain amount of cleanse/sec in order to keep pressure up, it's not reactive in the least.

Look at Berserker, it was a condi build done right where you had to avoid key skills and stay out of fields, but you could win it without any cleanse at all if you played smart - you can double condi damage for all I care (you should get punished for tanking) as long as they go into telegraphed abilities.

Id go one step further, rework condi from ground up. Make condi cleanse no longer cleanse damage conditions but only impairing (weakness, Immob, Chill, Fear etc.) ones (keep resistance around, its basically the protection analogue), and then change condi damage and application to fit with that. So more telegraphed skills, damage in line with how avoidable the skill is, and in general damage

waaaay

down.

It's an interesting thought for sure, I for one would like stacking to be a thing of the past. With this I mean it should be constant damage over time, and sticking a condition on your target should matter more than the amount of stacks. For this to work we'd need to increase condition damage, however cleanses would now be ten times more relevant.

And I agree, boons like resistance is quite the counter if you have no boonrip. I don't believe in an efficacy reduction though, it would probably be better served as a counterpart to retaliation where you get healed for a percentage of DoT every second scaling off the opponents condition damage.

However it's a pipedream, and conditions as is still works great. It's just a question of durations, stacks, cooldowns and applications that's needed to balance it all. I'm very much in favor of less applications and longer durations in order to keep it's damage.

[Downstate.4697]

Condi will never be balanced. 1v1 it's fine (except certain mesmer builds), put 5 people on a team and now you have every condition that exists on you. Too much aoe being pooped onto nodes, but since this game also has wvw those skills will never be reworked. Poison and burn should never have been given stacks(only given stacks to compete with power on world bosses).

[AliamRationem.5172]

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Condi will never be balanced. 1v1 it's fine (except certain mesmer builds), put 5 people on a team and now you have every condition that exists on you. Too much aoe being pooped onto nodes, but since this game also has wvw those skills will never be reworked. Poison and burn should never have been given stacks(only given stacks to compete with power on world bosses).

Seems fine to me. Is it not balanced just because you say so or...? Seems to me if condi were auto win, we'd have a condi meta. We don't. So what's up with that? Seriously, you guys say this stuff with such authority, but you don't even seem to be explain it beyond "I don't like condi!". Seems fine to me.

[Downstate.4697]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Condi will never be balanced. 1v1 it's fine (except certain mesmer builds), put 5 people on a team and now you have every condition that exists on you. Too much aoe being pooped onto nodes, but since this game also has wvw those skills will never be reworked. Poison and burn should never have been given stacks(only given stacks to compete with power on world bosses).

Seems fine to me. Is it not balanced just because you say so or...? Seems to me if condi were auto win, we'd have a condi meta. We don't. So what's up with that? Seriously, you guys say this stuff with such authority, but you don't even seem to be explain it beyond "I don't like condi!". Seems fine to me.

Thought I explained where the imbalance comes from. Team fights where every opponent runs condi. You can feel free to disagree, but every post I see you reply to is not constructive and you act like you are better than everyone else. Your horse seems much higher than mine

[AliamRationem.5172]

@FrownyClown.8402 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@FrownyClown.8402 said:Condi will never be balanced. 1v1 it's fine (except certain mesmer builds), put 5 people on a team and now you have every condition that exists on you. Too much aoe being pooped onto nodes, but since this game also has wvw those skills will never be reworked. Poison and burn should never have been given stacks(only given stacks to compete with power on world bosses).

Seems fine to me. Is it not balanced just because you say so or...? Seems to me if condi were auto win, we'd have a condi meta. We don't. So what's up with that? Seriously, you guys say this stuff with such authority, but you don't even seem to be explain it beyond "I don't like condi!". Seems fine to me.

Thought I explained where the imbalance comes from. Team fights where every opponent runs condi. You can feel free to disagree, but every post I see you reply to is not constructive and you act like you are better than everyone else. Your horse seems much higher than mine

Okay, well this is my first post in this thread, so thanks for being a fan?

Anyway, the conditions you've placed on your argument are so impractical that they never actually happen. You can disagree if you like, but it wouldn't be constructive.