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Something that was forgotten


storm.3120

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Cba to look when they started to make conditions "less bursty" and do their damage over time rather than burst, especially burns.Guardian's torch 4 flip skill3 stacks of burn for 3s to do full damage. When others became 1 stack for longer duration like scourge torch,mesmer torch, ranger etc.Just an example what happened to harrowing wave

December 12, 2017Burning has been adjusted from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 8 seconds.Torment has been adjusted from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 2 stacks for 6 seconds.Someone forgot this thing exists, especially when you get it for free from the trait.

DH's Hunter's Determination -Drop a trap on being CC'd but also this trait has another functionality , which guardian alrdy have a trait for (60s cd, lol), each time they are being CC'ed, they gain aegis, no CD.So, this never allows to land a big hit after CC'ing them, ever.To contrarily what they said "we want to reduce passive auto-procs defenses", nice :)

October 26, 2015
Fixed an issue that caused this trait to apply aegis without respecting its cooldown.So, I guess its a bug...again... ?

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Guardian has been mostly meta in all 3 gamemodes, At this point it really needs some very hefty nerfs.

@"Revolution.5409" said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.

You can't use base instant cast virtues in DH and FB. Hopefully this doesn't count as a "tradeoff" in Anet's eyes, because if it does, it's RIP.

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@PLS.4095 said:Nerf necro is the mistake.Actually need zero skill to tank 2V1, passive gameplay, low skill required , high reward as side noder.

Priority number one to nerf.My thread is basically shows a skill that was left out from the global treatment and a bugged trait that's gives an advantage. Basically a few fixes, not a nerf.

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@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.It kinda has one. The virtues work differently between all three. It's just that they're way better for the elite specs.

Now compare that to 1 endurance bar, tell me how they compare.Why dont you question why daredevil has better evades but also gain additional evade ... when other class have better evade but -1, instead of +1 ;)
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@Tayga.3192 said:Guardian has been mostly meta in all 3 gamemodes, At this point it really needs some very hefty nerfs.

@"Revolution.5409" said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.

You can't use base instant cast virtues in DH and FB. Hopefully this doesn't count as a "tradeoff" in Anet's eyes, because if it does, it's RIP.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1163261#Comment_1163261

If i got their trade off agenda right (what is an inconsistent mess anyway, no matter how you look at it), than that is indeed the trade off from Guard specs (losing core Virtues). Just like losing the normal dodge for MC is the Mirage trade off. While the one dodge change is just a PvP/ WvW orientated nerf to MC, they did because of bronze propaganda forum complains. Means an unnecessary and at the wrong places nerf to Condimirage from clueless Devs with no class knowledge and no class understanding based on complains from ppl with the same lack in understanding and knowledge for certain but not a trade off.

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@Odik.4587 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.It kinda has one. The virtues work differently between all three. It's just that they're way better for the elite specs.

Now compare that to 1 endurance bar, tell me how they compare.Why dont you question why daredevil has better evades but also gain additional evae ... when other class have better evade but -1, instead of +1 ;)

That would be irrelevant to the topic I’m responding to.

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@Odik.4587 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.It kinda has one. The virtues work differently between all three. It's just that they're way better for the elite specs.

Now compare that to 1 endurance bar, tell me how they compare.Why dont you question why daredevil has better evades but also gain additional evae ... when other class have better evade but -1, instead of +1 ;)

They upped dd dodge cost

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@bravan.3876 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:Guardian has been mostly meta in all 3 gamemodes, At this point it really needs some very hefty nerfs.

@"Revolution.5409" said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.

You can't use base instant cast virtues in DH and FB. Hopefully this doesn't count as a "tradeoff" in Anet's eyes, because if it does, it's RIP.

If i got their trade off agenda right (what is an inconsistent mess anyway, no matter how you look at it), than that is indeed the trade off from Guard specs (losing core Virtues). Just like losing the normal dodge for MC is the Mirage trade off. While the one dodge change is just a PvP/ WvW orientated nerf to MC, they did because of bronze propaganda forum complains. Means an unnecessary and at the wrong places nerf to Condimirage from clueless Devs with no class knowledge and no class understanding based on complains from ppl with the same lack in understanding and knowledge for certain but not a trade off.

According to the reasoning made in the post linked, the problem should not be the tradeoff but the skill pack he has obtained which is too strong, so the tomes should be nerfed, correct me if I'm wrong.

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@Odik.4587 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.It kinda has one. The virtues work differently between all three. It's just that they're way better for the elite specs.

Now compare that to 1 endurance bar, tell me how they compare.Why dont you question why daredevil has better evades but also gain additional evae ... when other class have better evade but -1, instead of +1 ;)

umm.. but DD has a tradeoff in swipe instead of steal. So yes, there's a tradeoff. FB has none.

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@Sylanna.1947 said:

@"Revolution.5409" said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.It kinda has one. The virtues work differently between all three. It's just that they're way better for the elite specs.

Now compare that to 1 endurance bar, tell me how they compare.Why dont you question why daredevil has better evades but also gain additional evae ... when other class have better evade but -1, instead of +1 ;)

umm.. but DD has a tradeoff in swipe instead of steal. So yes, there's a tradeoff. FB has none.Swipe was made UNBLOCKABLE, which is a trade off. What he gave up for +1 evade AND 3 better evades on his choice??????????FB "trade off" that he lost normal virtues and gained tomes - doesnt mean trade off didnt happen in anet logic, tomes are basically +15 skills but who cares.Renegade still has no trade off too :)Also this thread isnt about "trade offs", feel free to make another one
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@Odik.4587 said:

@"Revolution.5409" said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.It kinda has one. The virtues work differently between all three. It's just that they're way better for the elite specs.

Now compare that to 1 endurance bar, tell me how they compare.Why dont you question why daredevil has better evades but also gain additional evae ... when other class have better evade but -1, instead of +1 ;)

umm.. but DD has a tradeoff in swipe instead of steal. So yes, there's a tradeoff. FB has none.Swipe was made UNBLOCKABLE, which is a trade off. What he gave up for +1 evade AND 3 better evades on his choice??????????FB "trade off" that he lost normal virtues and gained tomes - doesnt mean trade off didnt happen in anet logic, tomes are basically +15 skills but who cares.Renegade still has no trade off too :)Also this thread isnt about "trade offs", feel free to make another one

The ability to attack during the evade.

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@Revolution.5409 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:Guardian has been mostly meta in all 3 gamemodes, At this point it really needs some very hefty nerfs.

@Revolution.5409 said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.

You can't use base instant cast virtues in DH and FB. Hopefully this doesn't count as a "tradeoff" in Anet's eyes, because if it does, it's RIP.

If i got their trade off agenda right (what is an inconsistent mess anyway, no matter how you look at it), than that is indeed the trade off from Guard specs (losing core Virtues). Just like losing the normal dodge for MC is the Mirage trade off. While the one dodge change is just a PvP/ WvW orientated nerf to MC, they did because of bronze propaganda forum complains. Means an unnecessary and at the wrong places nerf to Condimirage from clueless Devs with no class knowledge and no class understanding based on complains from ppl with the same lack in understanding and knowledge for certain but not a trade off.

According to the reasoning made in the post linked, the problem should not be the tradeoff but the skill pack he has obtained which is too strong, so the tomes should be nerfed, correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, at least that is my opinion. The skill kit all together on Fb is too strong. It doesn't need another mechanical trade off will lead to clunkyness, will delete active gameplay options (for example make Fb only have 1 tome, how horrible that would be!) and will delete skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity from Fb (if you look at mechanics only and not how strong each skill is, than you have to agree that a Fb has a higher mechanical skill ceiling than core Guard or DH, just that the skill kit is overall too strong and that deletes a good part of the mechanical skill ceiling by making it rewarding even when just braindead spammed. So the lower skill ceiling comes from the too strong kit, means the bad balancing in terms of skill power and not from a missing trade off, not from the fact that Fb has more f-skills available). When you give a spec more skills, then each single skill needs to be weaker by itself, so that a skill ensemble with more skills available is not remarkable stronger than a spec/ class with less skills available. It can be a bit stronger when the skill ceiling to use the more skills effective is higher. Because skill requirement is a general trade off in balancing matters (ofc everything in moderation and within the equilibrium margin. In extremum we have different rules).

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@"Odik.4587" said:Cba to look when they started to make conditions "less bursty" and do their damage over time rather than burst, especially burns.Guardian's torch 4 flip skill3 stacks of burn for 3s to do full damage. When others became 1 stack for longer duration like scourge torch,mesmer torch, ranger etc.Just an example what happened to harrowing wave

December 12, 2017

Burning has been adjusted from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 8 seconds
.Torment has been adjusted from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 2 stacks for 6 seconds.Someone forgot this thing exists, especially when you get it for free from the trait.

DH's
-Drop a trap on being CC'd but also this trait has another functionality , which guardian alrdy have a trait for (60s cd, lol), each time they are being CC'ed, they gain aegis, no CD.So, this never allows to land a big hit after CC'ing them, ever.To contrarily what they said "we want to reduce passive auto-procs defenses", nice :)

October 26, 2015

Fixed an issue that caused this trait to apply aegis without respecting its cooldown.So, I guess its a bug...again... ?

Ya, Guardian torch is meta and every guardian runs torch. Wait.. no one does. I wounder why. Lets compare it to mesmer and necro who drop 3-4 other condis types, even though guardian has no cover condis. And FB does not run torch at all, since you cannot fit in radiance line and the cover condis from mantra of truth are reduced to one sec (basically non-existent). Not to mention how glitchy this weapon is. So.. ya.. If there is any viability to core condi guardian by playing burst one condi, which is not competitive (and never was since HoT release), QUICK KILL IT. Mind you, torch 4 duration was nerfed from 3 secs to 2 secs in PvP.

I would not care if they remove the virtues trait aegis on CC. It is not as effective as you advertise. And you only run it cuz the alternatives major adept traits suck.

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@Zephoid.4263 said:If you are unable to read OP, why should I bother explaining something to you?But ok, if skill with 1.75 coefficient and 3 burn stacks 3s is WEAK, can other similar skills to be WEAKENED to its level and give a trait that activate it for free, thanks.And gib me defensive autoprocs w/o cooldowns too, its weak anyway. ?As for your false claims to be longest CD -> Any other defensive auto-proc have 300s cd (like warrior 2 defense traits, thief auto-evade and whatelse is there), guardian HD trait can be reduced to 240, just so you know.

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@"Shao.7236" said:Btw, Torch 4 on Guardian is unblockable and unevadable, just like it's trait that's every 10 seconds. Doing the math since the skill is effective for 3 seconds, that's just every 7 seconds.Torch 4 has 2 skills - 1 is set you aflame and cause AOE burn which quickly burst you through blocks and while its active it flips to the second - throwing the flame that has 1.75 power coefficient + 3 burn stacks for 3 seconds. In the radiance traitline there is a trait that auto-procs it on crit every 10s, lol.They wont change the first part of the skill but the second definitely should be adjusted.8Ff0jos.png

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