Things that make me sad about the new Expansion announcement

[Ben K.6238]

@Luthan.5236 said:With regionally different prices it is possible to enforce them: Forbidding the resellers/merchants to export it back into other countries with higher price to have seperated regions with seperated prices. Online you have IP checks and stuff. (Which might be the problem here since this could be bypassed with VPN, proxies and stuff.)

VPN only allows you to attempt to make the payment in a currency you're not eligible for; fraud detection will usually cause it to fail anyway, or in the worst case your funds might be held by the payment processor until you can verify that you do actually have the right to pay in that currency.

It's true that it's not possible to completely eliminate people trying to dodge regional pricing, but it's usually such a hassle that only a very determined customer is going to jump through all the right hoops. For the most part regional pricing does what it's intended to do.

[kharmin.7683]

@xWiroo.3841 said:

The value of any service or item is what someone is willing to pay for it.

Did you just start your first economics course?

Funny. No, but it would seem that some people in the forums lack this simple understanding.

[voltaicbore.8012]

@"Luthan.5236" said:

Helping to understand the ideas behind something ... might make it easier. So don't try to hide your hate against "people getting something cheaper than my" as trying to help ArenaNet getting more money.

That's not what anyone said, ever. It's not that we even think regional pricing is a bad thing in general.

The point is that if you think regional pricing will help them earn more money, that's based on a lot of (most likely totally inaccurate) assumptions. Nice try at unlicensed psychology though.

As you yourself admit later on, we don't have market data here on the forums, so we don't really know. But guess who probably does? ANet. And guess who isn't doing regional pricing? ANet. Chances are it's been looked at, and the numbers say it's not a good idea to do regional pricing.

[Obtena.7952]

@Luthan.5236 said:Some people realy fail to see the intent of regionally different prices.

No, we don't. We just realize that if you want regional pricing to work, the business model needs to support it. We also realize that if regional pricing was this amazing thing that would make Anet a whole lot of money, you have to ask yourself why it already hasn't happened. Whatever the reason ... it hasn't. I'm betting Anet isn't inept ... so it's likely it WOULDN'T make Anet a whole lot of money ... or that there are OTHER factors that prevent it.

There is no hate for people here ... but there IS some frustration when people are asked to examine the obvious realities ... and ignore it like their ideas are the best ever.

[Westenev.5289]

@wrathmagik.3518 said:You can earn gems through the game by playing and converting gold to gems. You have plenty of time to save up for the expansion.

I'm pretty sure you can't buy expansions with gems - only the deluxe add ons.

[firedragon.8953]

I am in Japan and I always 'pay more' for imported items or international purchases with conversion fees, etc. It's a bit more, and yeah annoying, but I want that item and I justify paying that extra % on top so I can get it. Frankly, I think the value is worth it to me. That's the same for the next GW2 expansion. I am excited about it, and will most likely buy it! I may even buy a deluxe version or whatever. I do this because I want to play it and I like Guild Wars 2.

So to the OP, this isn't so much a regional monetary thing as much as a value assessment. If you like Guild Wars 2 and want to play the expansion, you'll buy it. If not, you won't. As you said it isn't even a problem with your personal economic situation. Sure, it would be great if there was regional pricing, but honestly, it isn't a big deal. It isn't only in the gaming world, but with many products that are not available in your country. The world isn't 'fair' when it comes to such things, but the world is 'easier' when we stop caring about it so much.

[Ashen.2907]

Conversion rate from US dollars to local currency is not the concern on its own. If the conversion rate is 5:1 and the quantity of that currency held is 5:1 then you break even.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

The way @Obtena.7952 explained the OP's problem is exactly how it works. As someone who trades FOREX, basically the entire reason companies can even make profits in different countries is because of how exchange rates work.

The reason the price of a Mc-Double in Brazil and a Mcdouble in America are both affordable, is because traders hedge the value of the currency by taking up the gains and losses in the exchange. This is because employee's making these burgers in brazil can't be paid in american dollars. If they were, they would lose profit because the value of the dollar exceeds the value of the Brazilian Real (about 6 times more). Therefor, the FOREX market exists to make the value of the two currencies equivalent by making them both relative to each other. That way the value of 6 reals is the value of 1 american dollar, and when you as an employee are paid, you are paid 6 times more in reals then if the exchange was just 1 to 1.

For Gw2, it's no different. You are paying 300 Reals for GW2 because otherwise Anet will not be able to make a profit, and those 300 reals is equivalent to 60 US dollars. Now if you as an employee of whatever job you work in brazil only make 300 Reals a month, that's not a problem with the exchange rate, that's a problem with the countries economic cost of living (minimum wage). This explains why an apple over in brazil might cost 1 Real because it is made domestically, thus can accommodate affordability relative to the cost of living.

[Obtena.7952]

It's not even unreasonable that Anet offering their service in other countries may saddle them with additional costs beyond those they would incur offering the same service in their home country. The original premise of the ask is completely off-base ... regional pricing does NOT by default result in regions getting a better-than-base price than if there isn't regional pricing. I don't blame people for not understanding these complex economic interactions ... but do NOT dismiss people that give you the information to correct you when you show your lack of understanding.

[Cuks.8241]

It's not about currency exchange, it's about buying power of customers in a certain country. With software, there are not much manufacturing costs and many companies adapt the prices to the buying power of different regions.I am not sure why Anet doesn't do it with the base game especially with their business model that also relies on microtransactions in addition to the base price of the game. I know many other games do it but I am not sure if those are all region locked. Maybe the market is just too small to cover the costs of implementation and retail.I wonder if they do it for China.

[Vayne.8563]

When you say every competitor is using regional pricing, are you including WoW and Final Fantasy who have monthly fees, even though the expansion may be a bit cheaper? Or are you talking about ESO or SWToR, which have "optional" monthly fees that you pretty much have to pay to get all the content? Or are you talking about borderline or fully pay to win games like Blade and Soul and BDO, which would require you to spend more money to keep up?

Sorry but this game pretty much has the fairest model in existence, so if you want to compare compare everything. It's not pay to win. You can buy everything in the cash shop by farm gold. There's no sub or optional sub. And the game itself is cheap. You can even get living world episodes free, just for continuing to log in.

I'm not saying it doesn't suck to live in a country where everything is more expensive. I'm saying this isn't really an Anet problem, it's a life problem. I live in Australia and everything is more expensive here too.

[lare.5129]

as for me price should be same for all regions. It some barrier by payment rate, is they can buy gems or not. In some countries payment rate is 5 euro per month. Should also anet decrease payment for 5 cents for these regions and worry about them economic status? Don't think so.

also, if you talk about Brazil - this is rich county. People play and pay for wow subscription 15 real EACH month. So I don't see point worry about expansion EoD on Brazil, it it already coast less than 4 month subscripion on another mmo game.

[lare.5129]

on some arguments I see some logic, but NOT about rich Braziltake it from first site form search"A person working in Brazil typically earns around 8,560 BRL per month. Salaries range from 2,170 BRL (lowest average) to 38,200 BRL (highest average, actual maximum salary is higher)".take it from http://www.salaryexplorer.comGreeting from EU, no one from my family, and me not get "midl Brazil salary", and happy that have less numbers. Should we also ask compensation from anet to buy expansion with discount?Or opposite we should ask increase price for Brasil twice if we try find some solidarity and honesty??

[Obtena.7952]

@Cuks.8241 said:It's not about currency exchange, it's about buying power of customers in a certain country.

Well, it's about LOTS of things and currency exchange is a BIG one. This is actually WAY more complicated than a few pages of discussion on a forum to understand it ... but let's not pretend that globally available goods and services are by default or good intention going to be priced so they accommodate regional standards. If Anet was to regionally price GW2, there is no reason to believe this would result in a lower price than the base price of the game in it's core customer areas. The fact is this ... this isn't an Anet problem to solve and this current situation is actually the most fair approach we could have.

I mean, for the benefit of the OP ... if there was 10 million Brazilians lined up to play GW2 ... OK, makes sense to cater to those customers and their specific needs. Pretty sure that's NOT the case.

[Cuks.8241]

@"lare.5129" said:as for me price should be same for all regions. It some barrier by payment rate, is they can buy gems or not. In some countries payment rate is 5 euro per month. Should also anet decrease payment for 5 cents for these regions and worry about them economic status? Don't think so.

also, if you talk about Brazil - this is rich county. People play and pay for wow subscription 15 real EACH month. So I don't see point worry about expansion EoD on Brazil, it it already coast less than 4 month subscripion on another mmo game.

This is not about "fair" at all. This is about covering as much market as possible, getting rid of competition and profit. I am not saying Anet should be a charity organisation, games are not essential goods.My company does regional pricing, even within microregions if we can call it like that (for example within EU). We adapt these constantly. And we are a manufacturing company, we need to cover the costs of manufacturing. Sometimes you really minimise the margins just to stay ahead of the competitors and keep the coverage. We follow competitors and we know that they will drop prices even below the costs of manufacturing just to keep the coverage for future products, to keep the trust of the customers. Maybe you will sell one product with a loss but that will mean other products and future products will sell better and the competitor will not get a chance to even come to the market.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Karkara.9067 said:I had conflicting feelings in the last few days, for as much as I’m happy there would be a new expansion, there is one big problem hanging over it.This will be for sure a paid expansion, probably will cost up to 30-60 dollars, depending on the content they put in, expect no sales for months or even a year, and you can see the problem with everyone outside of the USA/EU will face…

In Brazil a dollar is 5 reais (1:5) that means that this game (and the gems for that matter) is 5x more expensive, I’ll not pay 150 reais minimum for this expansion I’m sorry and the reason is not that I don’t have the money, but this is too over budget for a simple 3-4 maps+ spec+mount expansion.

(And if you understand economy, you know that a 1:5 conversion don’t mean I have 5x more money or something, that’s not how it works)

The fact that anet/NCsoft obliviously don’t care for regional pricing is very puzzling to me, every new MMO do it, if not by themselves they use steam that make it for them for “free”.

In Brazil there is a third party partner but since it is still showing vanilla promo on their site, and selling HoT, I can say they don’t care and NCsoft don’t as well because they don’t keep an eye on these things.

Every competitor do regional pricing (even the money hungry activision\blizzard), please take this new rebirth moment you are having and look on this too. Ate least think of doing more text translations. I doubt that the south American population on this game is so low that is not worth it, and considering that every place I go I come across a fellow Brazilian and that I call friends to this game that are instantly tuned off by the “dollar only international credit card paying method”, I can say that they are there.

Show that you care for people outside of the USA and EU too anet/NCsoft please, don’t just say “sorry” and leave us in the dust.

(For reference, the new doom game is 60 dollars, but in Brazil it is 200 reais (on steam), not 300 as it would be).

sweden its 10sek=1euro

[lare.5129]

@"Cuks.8241" said:This is not about "fair" at all. This is about covering as much market as possible, getting rid of competition and profit. I am not saying Anet should be a charity organisation, games are not essential goods.My company does regional pricing, even within microregions if we can call it like that (for example within EU). We adapt these constantly. And we are a manufacturing company, we need to cover the costs of manufacturing. Sometimes you really minimise the margins just to stay ahead of the competitors and keep the coverage. We follow competitors and we know that they will drop prices even below the costs of manufacturing just to keep the coverage for future products, to keep the trust of the customers. Maybe you will sell one product with a loss but that will mean other products and future products will sell better and the competitor will not get a chance to even come to the market.this is properly and right words. I am ready like this twice. But these word in parallel world, it we talk about current question. As I say Brazil is a rich county, whit good payment rate, in some places 2x more that in some EU regions (if someone don't know EU is not only France and Germany). For example I am too from EU, and got payment less than midl Brazil payment rate, and I happy what I hjave that I have. So what? World is not give me big gifts, and Nike shoes in local shop coast 2x more than in UK shop, corn 3x more that in USA, and not all, but many product coast more than in first world .. this is live, welcome Neo.

[lare.5129]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:sweden its 10sek=1eurojoke mode: oh, 10x discount for you soon ? greetings.!But firstly we need say for Japan that they will get fantastic discount !! 125yen=1euro

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

Hehe people are like "the expansions should not have regional price, the devs need to eat, and you need to support Anet paying the "full price", but also, Anet, you should give all the 3 Living World seasons for free with the steam release and when people buy PoF, people should not have to pay for even more content the devs worked hard on", lel.

Also, kinda relevant to the discussion, you guys think Anet will follow the "games should cost $10 more" thingy that's happening at the moment, and increase the price to $40 bucks, or will it remain the same.

[lare.5129]

@Fuchslein.8639 said:I really don't understand why there is so much argument against this ...because for many people it looks like very strange, then from rich Brasil people try save funny short sum for subscription free good game(or may be best mmo game).

[Fuchslein.8639]

@"Brandon Uzumaki.1524" said:

Also, kinda relevant to the discussion, you guys think Anet will follow the "games should cost $10 more" thingy that's happening at the moment, and increase the price to $40 bucks, or will it remain the same.

I would also pay 60 if they bring more content. And do it like the current HOT and less mob spamming like POF ... I never understood how people find POF easier. POF maps are just annoying. Stuffed with annoying enemies. Feels like a shopping mall just before christmas ...

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Obtena.7952" said:That's just being sensational ... The objection here isn't other companies don't do it. The objection is that the OP is justifying his desire for pricing to be 'fair' with regional considerations when would in fact be the complete opposite of fair. If he actually wanted and understood fair, he would realize why it's important everyone pay the same.In my language, we have a saying, that would loosely translate to "fair does not mean equal". It is a very good saying. You might want to pay attention to it.

You are right though, that business generally doesn't really concern itself with such trivial issues as fairness.

[Tukaram.8256]

I am from the US but retired to the Philippines. I can easily see both sides of this. I try and look at how it affects the locals, on the local economy (I still get my money from the US). I use the cost in work hours as a guide.

A $60 game is not a big deal in America, but that is a p3,000 game here in the PIs. The average person makes 300 pesos a day, if they are lucky enough to even have a job. So, a $60 game is 2 hours work in the US, but 10 DAYS work in the Philippines.

I think they could easily do some regional pricing, using country of origin on your credit card. I tried to buy a game online, from the Philippines, but when I entered my US credit card number the price more than tripled. Many companies use regional pricing. Looks like ANet will not, but they could easily - if they cared enough about their customers to do it.

[kharmin.7683]

@Tukaram.8256 said:Looks like ANet will not, but they could easily - if they cared enough about their customers to do it.That's making an assumption that Anet doesn't care. There may be financial and/or legal reasons for not incorporating regional pricing which might drive their decision not to do so. That doesn't mean that they don't care.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

The only way to make pricing 'fair' (according to some thoughts) is to base it on each individual's income.Just because someone lives in a certain country doesn't mean that person has a particular income.I wish I made $30/hour. Pfft.