Strike wont make me raid

[Terra.9506]

I'll raid everyday if I can solo it XD.Seriously only thing that make boss in this game too hard to take down is their trillion HP and break bar mechanic.

[Sylvari.2953]

Yesterday when it was the daily Strike, I wanted to kill the Whisper of Jormag for the Mastery point. I looked it up to learn the mechanics. I'm not lying guys, I spent 10 hours on this thing and couldn't kill it! :scream: I main Celestial Firebrand but switched to "meta" power Reaper (my only full dps char) to help with damage but it didn't make a difference. I tried it with public groups and premade squads, 80% of the time people with chains killed everyone, 20% of the time the Strike was bugged (boss disappeared) and people left frustrated so we always had to get new ones. Later I looked up opinions and some people say this thing is harder than some of the Raids. So I accepted the fact that I will never get this Mastery point, lol. I don't mind grouping up for stuff, I honestly tried my best but this was just a waste of time. It completely killed my small amount of interest in Strikes, I don't even want to touch Raids.

[Blocki.4931]

@"Mea.5491" said:Yesterday when it was the daily Strike, I wanted to kill the Whisper of Jormag for the Mastery point. I looked it up to learn the mechanics. I'm not lying guys, I spent 10 hours on this thing and couldn't kill it! :scream: I main Celestial Firebrand but switched to "meta" power Reaper (my only full dps char) to help with damage but it didn't make a difference. I tried it with public groups and premade squads, 80% of the time people with chains killed everyone, 20% of the time the Strike was bugged (boss disappeared) and people left frustrated so we always had to get new ones. Later I looked up opinions and some people say this thing is harder than some of the Raids. So I accepted the fact that I will never get this Mastery point, lol. I don't mind grouping up for stuff, I honestly tried my best but this was just a waste of time. It completely killed my small amount of interest in Strikes, I don't even want to touch Raids.

It really isn't all that difficult. Chains and his past 25% phase are the most dangerous things. Good healers and paying a lot of attention will carry you through it guaranteed.

Are you on EU? If you are I'll gladly take you through the fight when I do it with my guild.

[Algreg.3629]

Great, here I was wondering will Makuragee now start raiding? Good to have that question off my mind.

[SkyCake.4216]

I enjoyed Strikes while farming for my Runic Cape. Thought about maybe trying out some raids! Though, I've always been on the fence about them. I think Strikes were meant more for people like that.

But! As someone that has played MMOs for like 20 years, Raiding never made sense to me or had some heavy appeal in the first place. I don't raid simply because I don't want to.

[Sylvari.2953]

@Blocki.4931 said:It really isn't all that difficult. Chains and his past 25% phase are the most dangerous things. Good healers and paying a lot of attention will carry you through it guaranteed.

Are you on EU? If you are I'll gladly take you through the fight when I do it with my guild.

Thanks so much for the offer but luckily I can max the new Masteries with open world achievements (I'm slowly catching up after a long break). :+1:

[kharmin.7683]

@Adul.1520 said:The reason why people feel the need to say this is that Anet seemingly has the impression that people who don't raid don't just not raid because they don't want to raid, but because there's not enough of a difficulty ramp between non-raid and raid content. Which is, for the most part, wrong, if you actually listen to what people who don't raid say their actual reasons for not raiding are.Thanks for posting that. I don't know from where Anet gets their metrics that seem to push their development decisions more toward raids. I only know, that for my small sub-set of friends who play GW2, we don't fall into that category.

Maybe ANet sees more income from the raiding community?

[Adul.1520]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Adul.1520 said:The reason why people feel the need to say this is that Anet seemingly has the impression that people who don't raid don't just not raid because they don't want to raid, but because there's not enough of a difficulty ramp between non-raid and raid content. Which is, for the most part, wrong, if you actually listen to what people who don't raid say their actual reasons for not raiding are.Thanks for posting that. I don't know from where Anet gets their metrics that seem to push their development decisions more toward raids. I only know, that for my small sub-set of friends who play GW2, we don't fall into that category.

Maybe ANet sees more income from the raiding community?

I think the developers want to increase raid popularity because they love the raids and want to make more of them, which I think is respectable, but what they're not realizing is that there's a better way to make raids more popular that actually works, which is to add lower difficulty and/or solo-oriented modes to them. That way no-one needs to be coerced into playing game modes they don't enjoy playing, Anet can make more raids, and everyone gets more content. Everyone wins.

[Blocki.4931]

@Mea.5491 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:It really isn't all that difficult. Chains and his past 25% phase are the most dangerous things. Good healers and paying a lot of attention will carry you through it guaranteed.

Are you on EU? If you are I'll gladly take you through the fight when I do it with my guild.

Thanks so much for the offer but luckily I can max the new Masteries with open world achievements (I'm slowly catching up after a long break). :+1:

Well, the offer still stands! If you are so inclined at any point, just add me and send me a message.

[Burnfall.9573]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said:Strike have an important goal to give players a ladder to practice before reaching raid, because the dev said there are significant differences in average dps between open PvE and raid. In a sense Strike is for people who already want to get into raid but want a stepwise approach before starting wing 1, if you're not interested in group content where dps is part of the challenge, then Strike is simply not targeting you.

This is literally the easiest build there is that can consistently make high dps in strike/raid. Just spam every skill behind/beside boss except F1, skill 3 and heal...Sure its not top, but it also doesn't take much effort to score decent spot in raid as dps and allows players to focus on mechanics

As other have said, devs have missed the mark. Doing strikes is not going to entice players to raid. Players dont want to raid because of many things:

• time commitment
• min maxing/focus on trinity
• voice comms rwquiremrnts
• forced to use certain builds
• elitism (real and perceived)

Doing strikes doesn't automagicallty fix these. All strikes demonstrate is that players do want to enjoy 10 man fights if the tuning is at a casual level.

+1pretty much on point

[Aridon.8362]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said:Strike have an important goal to give players a ladder to practice before reaching raid, because the dev said there are significant differences in average dps between open PvE and raid. In a sense Strike is for people who already want to get into raid but want a stepwise approach before starting wing 1, if you're not interested in group content where dps is part of the challenge, then Strike is simply not targeting you.

This is literally the easiest build there is that can consistently make high dps in strike/raid. Just spam every skill behind/beside boss except F1, skill 3 and heal...Sure its not top, but it also doesn't take much effort to score decent spot in raid as dps and allows players to focus on mechanics

As other have said, devs have missed the mark. Doing strikes is not going to entice players to raid. Players dont want to raid because of many things:

• time commitment
• min maxing/focus on trinity
• voice comms rwquiremrnts
• forced to use certain builds
• elitism (real and perceived)

Doing strikes doesn't automagicallty fix these. All strikes demonstrate is that players do want to enjoy 10 man fights if the tuning is at a casual level.

+1

pretty much on point

As an add-on the strike bosses are actually at raid and fractals level.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

I kinda am laughing right now, a month ago the narrative was a refuse to play the strike because they are just like raids. Now it is I will play the strikes but I won't raid. Lets see what it looks like in another two months. Looks like Anet 1, toxic casuals 0 to me.

[subversiontwo.7501]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Strikes are a cool concept but they make the mistake of implementing them backwards.

With raids you have way too much immersive design and resources going into a mode that ultimately is being played comptetively and thus will not really be played for the journey or to be experienced. So Strikes should not be an introduction to Raids, Raids should be an introduction to Strikes. Raids should be the journey and the experience. It should be where people go for an deeper extension of the experiences they gain on the open world maps. It should deliver the things that the maps may not be able to in terms of deeper PvE experience and storytelling. Strikes should be designed to be competetively challenging, so more Strikes can be put out to satiate the needs of the competetive PvE communities on shorter release cycles. They too could be closer tied to the maps but they should be their own competetive environment much more where focus is on challenging mechanics and bragging rights.

I realize that there is a substantial part of the GW2 community now that are not MMO-players and rather single-player type of players who have been seduced by the many years of focus on LS. However, in a broader perspective, this focus on LS has appearantly not served the company well. Their game ultimately is an MMO and excels as an MMO and that needs to be re-established for the game to have a future. Lately, it seemingly looks as if the company itself also has come to that realization with a return to replayability and good push-pull map design in the pipeline.

This discussion is in my eyes an extension of that. They should keep focusing on good map design first and foremost. They should put LS initiatives more onto maps and into raids. They should put competetive raid initiatives into strikes where the meat-and-potatoes boss is the focus and the focus is not the resource- or asset-demanding spice or garnish. The players who are annoyed over having to play with other players in this online world was never supposed to be the target demographic of a product like this. If you want to appease them, make a single player game. Having an MMO game where you prioritize single-player focus will not appease everyone, it will not suffieciently appease anyone and gives you marketing issues. If you want GW2 to stay healthy, focus on the social, competetive and cooperative multiplayer aspects it was designed around. That clearly was the working recipe.

[WinterSolstice.7829]

People don't seem to understand that Strike Mission is a more relaxed way to learning into being able to do Raid content, that's less likely to block you for eternity for say the commander's mistakes and not understanding what boss needs because they usually go healer and not dps on Cairn, making Raid content more able to be learned on its own and accessible for people who are turned away by how toxic people let it become to needing "Ping KP and 100 LI" making it impossible to start without a guild helping you for months without faking KP. Then you got people like me who'd use the KP for guild decorations from their first run through because it's too easy not to, and the run wasn't even that difficult if you're used to doing all the game's tedious junk on your own.

[Raknar.4735]

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:I kinda am laughing right now, a month ago the narrative was a refuse to play the strike because they are just like raids. Now it is I will play the strikes but I won't raid. Lets see what it looks like in another two months. Looks like Anet 1, toxic casuals 0 to me.

Probably will still look like Anet 1, toxic casuals 0, toxic raiders 0, Raids 0 if you ask me :P

[Sinfullysweet.4517]

I agree with you. I won’t step foot in a raid. But there needs to be more raids for the raiding community big time.

I love doing strike missions in my full healing guardian though. And do many speed runs of the new strike Forged in Steel. Perfect time allotment for me. Not to short, not overly long with simple mechanics that some might start doing raids from it. Win win in my opinion.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"WinterSolstice.7829" said:But the funniest thing I've ever seen is people asking for builds coordination for the Grothmar Strike. A group of people in literal yellows can do that one if they got sustainability and food.

Can just imagine Freezie looking at the Grothmar strike, and saying in Crocodile Dundee voice "That's not a strike mission..."

[Blude.6812]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Adul.1520 said:The reason why people feel the need to say this is that Anet seemingly has the impression that people who don't raid don't just not raid because they don't want to raid, but because there's not enough of a difficulty ramp between non-raid and raid content. Which is, for the most part, wrong, if you actually listen to what people who don't raid say their actual reasons for not raiding are.Thanks for posting that. I don't know from where Anet gets their metrics that seem to push their development decisions more toward raids. I only know, that for my small sub-set of friends who play GW2, we don't fall into that category.

Maybe ANet sees more income from the raiding community?

Or maybe the new ones in charge have decided that they don't like (or more likely don't understand) the original premise of GW2 and why people where attracted to it and bought it. They feel they must change it to what other MMO games are like because that is what they know.

[Sylvari.2953]

@Cyninja.2954 said:Now don't take this the wrong way (or me picking on you), but your celestial Firebrand is a perfect example as to WHY players are having a hard time.

I clearly said that I switched to power Reaper (she's in full Ascended zerk gear, build from metabattle) to be more useful. :tongue: I only tried it once with my FB main because I thought it would be easy like one of the other Strikes I did a couple of days ago. I don't follow meta trends so maybe power Reaper isn't the best choice either but it's definitely more useful in groups than my Cele FB. So I wasn't the problem, it was the people who ran around with the chains like headless chickens.

[Shena Fu.5792]

The problem is Anet doesn't even know what they themselves want, but try to read the players' mind on why they detest and avoid raids? I mean, conceptually what's the difference between dungeons, fractals, raids, and now strike missions? They're the same genre of content, but for some reason Anet wants to splinter the content, and consequently also splinter the playerbase.

As for easier raids, shouldn't the solution be to use the same maps, but provide varying levels of difficulty? Like the dungeons with easier story mode and harder exploration modes. So that players can familiarize with the same map, mechanics, and encounters. What doesn't relate is how completing strike missions would help with raids, when their requirements are totally different--possibly even opposite and counterproductive of each other.

Unfortunately, what don't differ between modes are the elitism and toxicity with certain raiders (where raider here generally means players who devote to instanced, small group, high difficulty content, including in GW2 dungeons, fractals, raids, and strike missions). The elitism, toxicity, arrogance, exclusion, etc. will persist due to the nature of this type of content. And this type of behavior won't vanish just because difficulty is altered. As we have seen for dungeons and fractals, and now strike missions, some devoted players will always want to do it faster, better.

So the elitism and exclusion remains; just because you call these contents different names won't make the issues magically go away. It's inherent in this type of content. And why huge portion of the playerbase won't engage in any similar content--it's the principle of the matter.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Mea.5491 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Now don't take this the wrong way (or me picking on you), but your celestial Firebrand is a perfect example as to WHY players are having a hard time.

I clearly said that

I switched to power Reaper

(she's in full Ascended zerk gear, build from metabattle) to be more useful. :tongue: I only tried it once with my FB main because I thought it would be easy like one of the other Strikes I did a couple of days ago. I don't follow meta trends so maybe power Reaper isn't the best choice either but it's definitely more useful in groups than my Cele FB. So I wasn't the problem, it was the people who ran around with the chains like headless chickens.

The post you quoted highlights exactly what I was talking about earlier. They obviously didn't read most of your post, just hit a key "trigger" word, and went off on a tangent. I can imagine what it'd be like for someone relatively new to raiding grouping with them.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Mea.5491 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Now don't take this the wrong way (or me picking on you), but your celestial Firebrand is a perfect example as to WHY players are having a hard time.

I clearly said that

I switched to power Reaper

(she's in full Ascended zerk gear, build from metabattle) to be more useful. :tongue: I only tried it once with my FB main because I thought it would be easy like one of the other Strikes I did a couple of days ago. I don't follow meta trends so maybe power Reaper isn't the best choice either but it's definitely more useful in groups than my Cele FB. So I wasn't the problem, it was the people who ran around with the chains like headless chickens.

Actually with having informed and prepared you were likely among the players who were contributing more to success than most others, and don't worry, power reaper is actually a very solid build. That's why I intentionally mentioned that I was not attacking you or criticizing.

The thing is just: many players will not swap to a better build, will not even understand that their build is lacking AND will likely not have prepared.

Boneskinner and Whisper are among the tougher fights and if players are challenged with the easier fights already, all those things will culminate in unsuccessful strikes. It's also the reason why more experienced players are occasionally asking for LI or KP by now (and not even that many tbh). It's literally the idiot prevention check because there is nothing more frustrating than having a random player kill 3 people over and over with chains in the Whisper strike, or dropping aoes in the Boneskinner fight.

[JeffJeth.9518]

Anet's stated intention is to get more players doing raids. The point they're missing is that players won't raid if they don't find it fun. It doesn't matter if the devs make raid-like content required for PvE achievements. It's not fun. It's already creating a lot of resentment.

Let raiders raid. That's fine. Stop trying to force players who don't find it fun.

[psyt.9415]

@"Rukia.4802" said:Strikes were never going to get people to raid. ANet are like a toddler in MMO-basics. An easy mode for casuals is the norm now but ANet didn't get the memo just like proper queue system for instances.

Its a shame because probably so few people actually see raids and they don't see it as a great return on investment. If they just implement a LFR then 90% of players will queue into it if all they have to do is press a button and do a couple ez mechanics and see the story. I bet the public option for strikes is very popular for example.

Then the content isn't "wasted" and THIS is what gets people to move onto pugging normal, heroic, etc. in WoW. Sure, most will probably stick to LFR which is fine, but you do get quite a few new raiders and in the end what does it matter if everyone gets to see the content you will still have your casuals and hardcores.

Strikes are so disconnected with raids its silly.

I had a debate on this very point on the actual Raid/ Strike sub forum. This is what ive been saying for years. The fact you have to make your own group is a pain in the ass. Im up for more content on the same difficulty level as the old explore dungeons were but I dont necessarily want to be making my own group every time I feel the need.

[Josiah.2967]

Looking For Group raiding was the best thing that happened to WOW in ages. It is what this game needs. An easier casual version of raiding where people can experience some great content for the first time. You que for a group and when it's full you are ported in. The bigger question is does GW2 have the player base to support such a system.

Honestly, I would love Dungeon Finder too. Dungeons are a pain in the neck to do in their current state. Maybe give a 10% DPS/Health/Healing buff for every player not in your party and call it a day.