Something that was forgotten

[Zephoid.4263]

@Odik.4587 said:

@Zephoid.4263 said:If you are unable to read OP, why should I bother explaining something to you?But ok, if skill with 1.75 coefficient and 3 burn stacks 3s is WEAK, can other similar skills to be WEAKENED to its level and give a trait that activate it for free, thanks.And gib me defensive autoprocs w/o cooldowns too, its weak anyway. ?As for your false claims to be longest CD -> Any other defensive auto-proc have 300s cd (like warrior 2 defense traits, thief auto-evade and whatelse is there), guardian HD trait can be reduced to 240, just so you know.

Again, still not powerful enough to be meta. If anything, its what makes core burn guard remotely viable. Look at the entire core guard skillset and trait set. Almost nothing PRODUCES any significant burning stacks except F1, traited sword of justice, and zealots fire. There are almost as many traits enhancing burning as there are ways to apply it. And thats the ONLY damage condi guard can produce. Complaining about the only trait that keeps core burn guard fringe viable is laughable. Why not just go play it and see why its not very popular.

lol... 'your false claim'. By your own admission, 300s is the longest in the game, but there are more than one. So ok, TIED for the longest cd. That it can be traited to be less doesn't really matter. Taking 2 traits to make your 5 min conditional trait 'only' 4 mins isn't viable in any world. Stacking a conditional passive that grants the worst boon in the game on a non-viable trait actually seems like a positive thing.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

complaining about guard torch... I've seen everything.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Odik.4587 said:

@Sylanna.1947 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:

@"Revolution.5409" said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.It kinda has one. The virtues work differently between all three. It's just that they're way better for the elite specs.

Now compare that to 1 endurance bar, tell me how they compare.Why dont you question why daredevil has better evades but also gain additional evae ... when other class have better evade but -1, instead of +1 ;)

umm.. but DD has a tradeoff in swipe instead of steal. So yes, there's a tradeoff. FB has none.Swipe was made UNBLOCKABLE, which is a trade off. What he gave up for +1 evade AND 3 better evades on his choice??????????FB "trade off" that he lost normal virtues and gained tomes - doesnt mean trade off didnt happen in anet logic, tomes are basically +15 skills but who cares.Renegade still has no trade off too :)Also this thread isnt about "trade offs", feel free to make another one

The unblockable is a token gesture, it actually is completely irrelevant (well, maybe not anymore. Now that Bountiful Theft only rips 2 boons, sometimes it will fail to rip Aegis, unless they changed the boonrip priority as well. Actually, they probably did.). Sides, the "3 better evades of his choice" are the Grandmaster trait. By that logic you could ask "what did Spellbreaker give up for Magebane Tether?". The only actual mechanic Daredevil gives is the third dodge. Mind you, its not actually as good as it sounds. Its basically one extra dodge per fight. Not every X seconds, not in certain scenarios, one per fight. Hell, its worse than that, because in order for Daredevil to get that, they had to remove the same trait from Acrobatics first, except the Acrobatics one was better.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Sylanna.1947 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:

@"Revolution.5409" said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.It kinda has one. The virtues work differently between all three. It's just that they're way better for the elite specs.

Now compare that to 1 endurance bar, tell me how they compare.Why dont you question why daredevil has better evades but also gain additional evae ... when other class have better evade but -1, instead of +1 ;)

umm.. but DD has a tradeoff in swipe instead of steal. So yes, there's a tradeoff. FB has none.Swipe was made UNBLOCKABLE, which is a trade off. What he gave up for +1 evade AND 3 better evades on his choice??????????FB "trade off" that he lost normal virtues and gained tomes - doesnt mean trade off didnt happen in anet logic, tomes are basically +15 skills but who cares.Renegade still has no trade off too :)Also this thread isnt about "trade offs", feel free to make another one

The unblockable is a token gesture, it actually is completely irrelevant (well, maybe not anymore. Now that Bountiful Theft only rips 2 boons, sometimes it will fail to rip Aegis, unless they changed the boonrip priority as well. Actually, they probably did.). Sides, the "3 better evades of his choice"

are the Grandmaster trait

. By that logic you could ask "what did Spellbreaker give up for Magebane Tether?". The only actual mechanic Daredevil gives is the third dodge. Mind you, its not actually as good as it sounds. Its basically one extra dodge per fight. Not every X seconds, not in certain scenarios, one per fight. Hell, its worse than that, because in order for Daredevil to get that, they had to remove the same trait from Acrobatics first, except the Acrobatics one was

better

.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Theftas far as I remember, about 1 year BT always stripped stab and aegis first.From DD you get 1 extra dodge in a fight every time you fully reset stamina. that includes stealth, disengage or simply not being forced to dodge.

[aelska.4609]

Just one word:"Miss".Even if this skill could one shot on hit, it wouldn't be used :p

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Sylanna.1947 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:

@"Revolution.5409" said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.It kinda has one. The virtues work differently between all three. It's just that they're way better for the elite specs.

Now compare that to 1 endurance bar, tell me how they compare.Why dont you question why daredevil has better evades but also gain additional evae ... when other class have better evade but -1, instead of +1 ;)

umm.. but DD has a tradeoff in swipe instead of steal. So yes, there's a tradeoff. FB has none.Swipe was made UNBLOCKABLE, which is a trade off. What he gave up for +1 evade AND 3 better evades on his choice??????????FB "trade off" that he lost normal virtues and gained tomes - doesnt mean trade off didnt happen in anet logic, tomes are basically +15 skills but who cares.Renegade still has no trade off too :)Also this thread isnt about "trade offs", feel free to make another one

The unblockable is a token gesture, it actually is completely irrelevant (well, maybe not anymore. Now that Bountiful Theft only rips 2 boons, sometimes it will fail to rip Aegis, unless they changed the boonrip priority as well. Actually, they probably did.). Sides, the "3 better evades of his choice"

are the Grandmaster trait

. By that logic you could ask "what did Spellbreaker give up for Magebane Tether?". The only actual mechanic Daredevil gives is the third dodge. Mind you, its not actually as good as it sounds. Its basically one extra dodge per fight. Not every X seconds, not in certain scenarios, one per fight. Hell, its worse than that, because in order for Daredevil to get that, they had to remove the same trait from Acrobatics first, except the Acrobatics one was

better

.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Theft

as far as I remember, about 1 year BT always stripped stab and aegis first.From DD you get 1 extra dodge in a fight every time you fully reset stamina. that includes stealth, disengage or simply not being forced to dodge.

Actually it has 3 boons it rips at equal priority. Stab and Aegis are 2 of them, but it also has Protection at max priority. Now that it only rips 2, its possible that it might rip stab and prot but leave Aegis on it. Or they changed it to only rip Stab and Aegis at max priority. I dont actually know, I havent really tested it.

In theory, yes. In praxis however, that doesnt happen, as Daredevil doesnt want to ever be at max dodges. Either the build is running Havoc Mastery, in which case it wants to be at about 1 dodge-roll open to maximise damage without completely giving up their defense. Or its running Staff, in which case it wants to maximise Bound uptime, which also leaves it at less than 3 dodges at all times. Hell, ironically the Daredevils using Dash usually dont even start the fight with 3 dodges. And as for stealth or disengage, that means theyre running away and wont reengage for a bit. At that point the next fight is just that, a new fight.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Sylanna.1947 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:

@"Revolution.5409" said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.It kinda has one. The virtues work differently between all three. It's just that they're way better for the elite specs.

Now compare that to 1 endurance bar, tell me how they compare.Why dont you question why daredevil has better evades but also gain additional evae ... when other class have better evade but -1, instead of +1 ;)

umm.. but DD has a tradeoff in swipe instead of steal. So yes, there's a tradeoff. FB has none.Swipe was made UNBLOCKABLE, which is a trade off. What he gave up for +1 evade AND 3 better evades on his choice??????????FB "trade off" that he lost normal virtues and gained tomes - doesnt mean trade off didnt happen in anet logic, tomes are basically +15 skills but who cares.Renegade still has no trade off too :)Also this thread isnt about "trade offs", feel free to make another one

The unblockable is a token gesture, it actually is completely irrelevant (well, maybe not anymore. Now that Bountiful Theft only rips 2 boons, sometimes it will fail to rip Aegis, unless they changed the boonrip priority as well. Actually, they probably did.). Sides, the "3 better evades of his choice"

are the Grandmaster trait

. By that logic you could ask "what did Spellbreaker give up for Magebane Tether?". The only actual mechanic Daredevil gives is the third dodge. Mind you, its not actually as good as it sounds. Its basically one extra dodge per fight. Not every X seconds, not in certain scenarios, one per fight. Hell, its worse than that, because in order for Daredevil to get that, they had to remove the same trait from Acrobatics first, except the Acrobatics one was

better

.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Theft

as far as I remember, about 1 year BT always stripped stab and aegis first.From DD you get 1 extra dodge in a fight every time you fully reset stamina. that includes stealth, disengage or simply not being forced to dodge.

Actually it has 3 boons it rips at equal priority. Stab and Aegis are 2 of them, but it also has Protection at max priority. Now that it only rips 2, its possible that it might rip stab and prot but leave Aegis on it. Or they changed it to only rip Stab and Aegis at max priority. I dont actually know, I havent really tested it.

In theory, yes. In praxis however, that doesnt happen, as Daredevil doesnt want to

ever

be at max dodges. Either the build is running Havoc Mastery, in which case it wants to be at about 1 dodge-roll open to maximise damage without completely giving up their defense. Or its running Staff, in which case it wants to maximise Bound uptime, which also leaves it at less than 3 dodges at all times. Hell, ironically the Daredevils using Dash usually dont even

start

the fight with 3 dodges. And as for stealth or disengage, that means theyre running away and wont reengage for a bit. At that point the next fight is just that, a new fight.

yes that, or maybe you stealth and get a dodge for it or maybe you are ignored in teamfight and get a dodge out of it, or maybe your enemy used rampage so you disengage for 10s or maybe it turned out into 2v1 and you have to leave and wait for your enemy to leave or maybe this or maybe that.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Sylanna.1947 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:

@"Revolution.5409" said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.It kinda has one. The virtues work differently between all three. It's just that they're way better for the elite specs.

Now compare that to 1 endurance bar, tell me how they compare.Why dont you question why daredevil has better evades but also gain additional evae ... when other class have better evade but -1, instead of +1 ;)

umm.. but DD has a tradeoff in swipe instead of steal. So yes, there's a tradeoff. FB has none.Swipe was made UNBLOCKABLE, which is a trade off. What he gave up for +1 evade AND 3 better evades on his choice??????????FB "trade off" that he lost normal virtues and gained tomes - doesnt mean trade off didnt happen in anet logic, tomes are basically +15 skills but who cares.Renegade still has no trade off too :)Also this thread isnt about "trade offs", feel free to make another one

The unblockable is a token gesture, it actually is completely irrelevant (well, maybe not anymore. Now that Bountiful Theft only rips 2 boons, sometimes it will fail to rip Aegis, unless they changed the boonrip priority as well. Actually, they probably did.). Sides, the "3 better evades of his choice"

are the Grandmaster trait

. By that logic you could ask "what did Spellbreaker give up for Magebane Tether?". The only actual mechanic Daredevil gives is the third dodge. Mind you, its not actually as good as it sounds. Its basically one extra dodge per fight. Not every X seconds, not in certain scenarios, one per fight. Hell, its worse than that, because in order for Daredevil to get that, they had to remove the same trait from Acrobatics first, except the Acrobatics one was

better

.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Theft

as far as I remember, about 1 year BT always stripped stab and aegis first.From DD you get 1 extra dodge in a fight every time you fully reset stamina. that includes stealth, disengage or simply not being forced to dodge.

Actually it has 3 boons it rips at equal priority. Stab and Aegis are 2 of them, but it also has Protection at max priority. Now that it only rips 2, its possible that it might rip stab and prot but leave Aegis on it. Or they changed it to only rip Stab and Aegis at max priority. I dont actually know, I havent really tested it.

In theory, yes. In praxis however, that doesnt happen, as Daredevil doesnt want to

ever

be at max dodges. Either the build is running Havoc Mastery, in which case it wants to be at about 1 dodge-roll open to maximise damage without completely giving up their defense. Or its running Staff, in which case it wants to maximise Bound uptime, which also leaves it at less than 3 dodges at all times. Hell, ironically the Daredevils using Dash usually dont even

start

the fight with 3 dodges. And as for stealth or disengage, that means theyre running away and wont reengage for a bit. At that point the next fight is just that, a new fight.

yes that, or maybe you stealth and get a dodge for it or maybe you are ignored in teamfight and get a dodge out of it, or maybe your enemy used rampage so you disengage for 10s or maybe it turned out into 2v1 and you have to leave and wait for your enemy to leave or maybe this or maybe that.

If you stealth, you have already disengaged, and the next time you fight, it will be, well, a new fight. Daredevil shouldnt even be within a teamfight, and if they are, theyre not getting ignored. Disengaging means a new fight, same as before. And of course its going to be a 2v1. You dont enter a fight as a thief unless your side outnumbers. You're not supposed to fight even fights, you lose them.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Sylanna.1947 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:

@"Revolution.5409" said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.It kinda has one. The virtues work differently between all three. It's just that they're way better for the elite specs.

Now compare that to 1 endurance bar, tell me how they compare.Why dont you question why daredevil has better evades but also gain additional evae ... when other class have better evade but -1, instead of +1 ;)

umm.. but DD has a tradeoff in swipe instead of steal. So yes, there's a tradeoff. FB has none.Swipe was made UNBLOCKABLE, which is a trade off. What he gave up for +1 evade AND 3 better evades on his choice??????????FB "trade off" that he lost normal virtues and gained tomes - doesnt mean trade off didnt happen in anet logic, tomes are basically +15 skills but who cares.Renegade still has no trade off too :)Also this thread isnt about "trade offs", feel free to make another one

The unblockable is a token gesture, it actually is completely irrelevant (well, maybe not anymore. Now that Bountiful Theft only rips 2 boons, sometimes it will fail to rip Aegis, unless they changed the boonrip priority as well. Actually, they probably did.). Sides, the "3 better evades of his choice"

are the Grandmaster trait

. By that logic you could ask "what did Spellbreaker give up for Magebane Tether?". The only actual mechanic Daredevil gives is the third dodge. Mind you, its not actually as good as it sounds. Its basically one extra dodge per fight. Not every X seconds, not in certain scenarios, one per fight. Hell, its worse than that, because in order for Daredevil to get that, they had to remove the same trait from Acrobatics first, except the Acrobatics one was

better

.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Theft

as far as I remember, about 1 year BT always stripped stab and aegis first.From DD you get 1 extra dodge in a fight every time you fully reset stamina. that includes stealth, disengage or simply not being forced to dodge.

Actually it has 3 boons it rips at equal priority. Stab and Aegis are 2 of them, but it also has Protection at max priority. Now that it only rips 2, its possible that it might rip stab and prot but leave Aegis on it. Or they changed it to only rip Stab and Aegis at max priority. I dont actually know, I havent really tested it.

In theory, yes. In praxis however, that doesnt happen, as Daredevil doesnt want to

ever

be at max dodges. Either the build is running Havoc Mastery, in which case it wants to be at about 1 dodge-roll open to maximise damage without completely giving up their defense. Or its running Staff, in which case it wants to maximise Bound uptime, which also leaves it at less than 3 dodges at all times. Hell, ironically the Daredevils using Dash usually dont even

start

the fight with 3 dodges. And as for stealth or disengage, that means theyre running away and wont reengage for a bit. At that point the next fight is just that, a new fight.

yes that, or maybe you stealth and get a dodge for it or maybe you are ignored in teamfight and get a dodge out of it, or maybe your enemy used rampage so you disengage for 10s or maybe it turned out into 2v1 and you have to leave and wait for your enemy to leave or maybe this or maybe that.

If you stealth, you have already disengaged, and the next time you fight, it will be, well, a new fight. Daredevil shouldnt even

be

within a teamfight, and if they are, theyre not getting ignored. Disengaging means a new fight, same as before. And of course its going to be a 2v1. You dont enter a fight as a thief unless your side outnumbers. You're not supposed to fight even fights, you lose them.

are you trolling?you can disengage and rejoin the fight 3-5s later. sheesh

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I think all the people calling for necro nerfs would be defending their class if it was in necro current state lol. Nexeos probobly have ptsd from the past where they'd get hard focused and due to low mobility end up just eating it and dying, except for that while where scourge was overperforming which then got over nerfed. Anet doesn't instil much conference when it comes to shave downs so u gotta understand why anyone and everyone defends their spec.I've seen some necro players admitting shroud gain was a bit much and could use a shave to shave down their sustain. If seen a few other ideas posted as well that weren't out right gutting, unfortunately that's not the norm when it comes to nerf suggestions lol

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Sylanna.1947 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:

@"Revolution.5409" said:They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.It kinda has one. The virtues work differently between all three. It's just that they're way better for the elite specs.

Now compare that to 1 endurance bar, tell me how they compare.Why dont you question why daredevil has better evades but also gain additional evae ... when other class have better evade but -1, instead of +1 ;)

umm.. but DD has a tradeoff in swipe instead of steal. So yes, there's a tradeoff. FB has none.Swipe was made UNBLOCKABLE, which is a trade off. What he gave up for +1 evade AND 3 better evades on his choice??????????FB "trade off" that he lost normal virtues and gained tomes - doesnt mean trade off didnt happen in anet logic, tomes are basically +15 skills but who cares.Renegade still has no trade off too :)Also this thread isnt about "trade offs", feel free to make another one

The unblockable is a token gesture, it actually is completely irrelevant (well, maybe not anymore. Now that Bountiful Theft only rips 2 boons, sometimes it will fail to rip Aegis, unless they changed the boonrip priority as well. Actually, they probably did.). Sides, the "3 better evades of his choice"

are the Grandmaster trait

. By that logic you could ask "what did Spellbreaker give up for Magebane Tether?". The only actual mechanic Daredevil gives is the third dodge. Mind you, its not actually as good as it sounds. Its basically one extra dodge per fight. Not every X seconds, not in certain scenarios, one per fight. Hell, its worse than that, because in order for Daredevil to get that, they had to remove the same trait from Acrobatics first, except the Acrobatics one was

better

.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Theft

as far as I remember, about 1 year BT always stripped stab and aegis first.From DD you get 1 extra dodge in a fight every time you fully reset stamina. that includes stealth, disengage or simply not being forced to dodge.

Actually it has 3 boons it rips at equal priority. Stab and Aegis are 2 of them, but it also has Protection at max priority. Now that it only rips 2, its possible that it might rip stab and prot but leave Aegis on it. Or they changed it to only rip Stab and Aegis at max priority. I dont actually know, I havent really tested it.

In theory, yes. In praxis however, that doesnt happen, as Daredevil doesnt want to

ever

be at max dodges. Either the build is running Havoc Mastery, in which case it wants to be at about 1 dodge-roll open to maximise damage without completely giving up their defense. Or its running Staff, in which case it wants to maximise Bound uptime, which also leaves it at less than 3 dodges at all times. Hell, ironically the Daredevils using Dash usually dont even

start

the fight with 3 dodges. And as for stealth or disengage, that means theyre running away and wont reengage for a bit. At that point the next fight is just that, a new fight.

yes that, or maybe you stealth and get a dodge for it or maybe you are ignored in teamfight and get a dodge out of it, or maybe your enemy used rampage so you disengage for 10s or maybe it turned out into 2v1 and you have to leave and wait for your enemy to leave or maybe this or maybe that.

If you stealth, you have already disengaged, and the next time you fight, it will be, well, a new fight. Daredevil shouldnt even

be

within a teamfight, and if they are, theyre not getting ignored. Disengaging means a new fight, same as before. And of course its going to be a 2v1. You dont enter a fight as a thief unless your side outnumbers. You're not supposed to fight even fights, you lose them.

are you trolling?you can disengage and rejoin the fight 3-5s later. sheesh

To actually disengage, you need to swap to shortbow and port out. Minimum cooldown is 9 seconds from the weaponswap. More if you wanna get back full initiative. Mind you, even if that wasnt the case, in 3-5 seconds you wouldnt even get back your third dodge, so that point would be moot.

[Tayga.3192]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Nexeos probobly have ptsd from the past

Past is irrelevant from a balance perspective

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Nexeos probobly have ptsd from the past

Past is irrelevant from a balance perspective

Was explaining a possible explanation for their behavior in defending necro current state but ok.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@UNOwen.7132yes, SB is the only way thief can disengage. definitely

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132yes, SB is the only way thief can disengage. definitely

Unless their enemy is willing to let them leave, or they burn Shadowstep (which is far too valuable to be burned for disengaging), it kinda is. I mean what else are you gonna do, try to move away with swiftness? Heartseeker? Even my Engineer will catch up to you in no time, and Engineer is not exactly a mobile class.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132yes, SB is the only way thief can disengage. definitely

Unless their enemy is willing to let them leave, or they burn Shadowstep (which is far too valuable to be burned for disengaging), it kinda is. I mean what else are you gonna do, try to move away with swiftness?

Heartseeker

? Even my Engineer will catch up to you in no time, and Engineer is not exactly a mobile class.

1 Daggerstorm2 Sword 23 Sword 54 Shadowstep5 Steal into other preoc enemy6 F2 if you steak from thief7 hearthseeker in smoke fieldthose are just of the top of my head. in theory you could chase down after thief uses some of them but you would use more utility to chase then they use to escape, and after using 1 of thse they can follow up with another if need be.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132yes, SB is the only way thief can disengage. definitely

Unless their enemy is willing to let them leave, or they burn Shadowstep (which is far too valuable to be burned for disengaging), it kinda is. I mean what else are you gonna do, try to move away with swiftness?

Heartseeker

? Even my Engineer will catch up to you in no time, and Engineer is not exactly a mobile class.

1 Daggerstorm2 Sword 23 Sword 54 Shadowstep5 Steal into other preoc enemy6 F2 if you steak from thief7 hearthseeker in smoke fieldthose are just of the top of my head. in theory you could chase down after thief uses some of them but you would use more utility to chase then they use to escape, and after using 1 of thse they can follow up with another if need be.

Lets go over them. "Daggerstorm". Its even more of a valuable cooldown than Shadowstep is, and it only does so much. Itll cover about, hm, 520 distance over 2.75 seconds? Again, I could catch up to that as an Engineer using just Jump Shot. Sword 2, only works if your enemy doesnt push you towards your sword 2 location. Which a good one will. Sword 5. Thief doesnt have offhand sword. If you mean Dagger 5, that one is slow, telegraphed and doesnt even help you that much because youre in prime cleave range. Shadowstep, yeah, but too valuable. Stealign to another enemy doesnt help you disengage. It just switches who you need to disengage from.

F2 when stealing from thief works, but youre not gonna be disengaging from a thief. Also, if done in melee range, still prime cleave range. "Heartseeker in a smoke field" way too slow. If you need to disengage, you need to do so right now, not go through 1.25 seconds of animation that your opponent can freely hit you during, and with the opponent being able to just go towards where youre heartseeking to cleave you down. Id also say too initiative intensive to usually be an option, but that is secondary.

Actually, you can chase the thief down after all but 4 and 2 if you didnt push them down. And you would need to use almost nothing. Jump Shot suffices. Nevermind Rush, Whirlwind attack, Swoop, Intervention, Frigid Blitz, or any other dash or shadowstep that almost all classes have on their weaponsets.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132yes, SB is the only way thief can disengage. definitely

Unless their enemy is willing to let them leave, or they burn Shadowstep (which is far too valuable to be burned for disengaging), it kinda is. I mean what else are you gonna do, try to move away with swiftness?

Heartseeker

? Even my Engineer will catch up to you in no time, and Engineer is not exactly a mobile class.

1 Daggerstorm2 Sword 23 Sword 54 Shadowstep5 Steal into other preoc enemy6 F2 if you steak from thief7 hearthseeker in smoke fieldthose are just of the top of my head. in theory you could chase down after thief uses some of them but you would use more utility to chase then they use to escape, and after using 1 of thse they can follow up with another if need be.

Lets go over them. "Daggerstorm". Its even more of a valuable cooldown than Shadowstep is, and it only does so much. Itll cover about, hm, 520 distance over 2.75 seconds? Again, I could catch up to that as an Engineer using just Jump Shot. Sword 2, only works if your enemy doesnt push you towards your sword 2 location. Which a good one will. Sword 5. Thief doesnt have offhand sword. If you mean Dagger 5, that one is slow, telegraphed and doesnt even help you that much because youre in prime cleave range. Shadowstep, yeah, but too valuable. Stealign to another enemy doesnt help you disengage. It just switches who you need to disengage from.

F2 when stealing from thief works, but youre not gonna be disengaging from a thief. Also, if done in melee range, still prime cleave range. "Heartseeker in a smoke field"

way

too slow. If you need to disengage, you need to do so

right now

, not go through 1.25 seconds of animation that your opponent can freely hit you during, and with the opponent being able to just go towards where youre heartseeking to cleave you down. Id also say too initiative intensive to usually be an option, but that is secondary.

Actually, you can chase the thief down after all but 4 and 2 if you didnt push them down. And you would need to use almost nothing.

Jump Shot

suffices. Nevermind Rush, Whirlwind attack, Swoop, Intervention, Frigid Blitz, or any other dash or shadowstep that almost all classes have on their weaponsets.

I must be playing against some God thiefs all the time then.5Head thief masterminds everywhere.you dont push thief into his sword 2 retreat, thief decides where he kites away, it is a node game. if enemy decides to push towards your port spot you decap, show them middle finger and leave them etc etc.Steal can be used to pets/clones/gates/beast or just enemies that cant pressure you, its a good option.Yes dagger 5, and you can cast it behind you and turn around to trick it or combine it with steal or hit clone/pet whatever.Hearthseeker + smoke fiedl, expecially p5 is super safe, p5 applies blind so you are safe, and after first jump you create both distance and stealth. oponent has to guess if he should cleave smoke filed when thief is not even inside, or just take a guess with tp/leaps and cleave air.And F2 bundle works, I have midnight signet that works exactly the same, and I dont have problems using it to disengage, it even lasts 2s instead of 3.

[Tayga.3192]

@Leonidrex.5649 and @"UNOwen.7132"

Let's just wait for mAT, and see how good thieves play against good players. Currently, neither of you can prove anything (unless with several videos on different cases).

There are times when someone can just "about face and hold w" to disengage, and sometimes you can't disengage even with shortbow 5. There are also cases a guardian can disengage from a power herald or from a thief. GW2 is all about cooldowns.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132yes, SB is the only way thief can disengage. definitely

Unless their enemy is willing to let them leave, or they burn Shadowstep (which is far too valuable to be burned for disengaging), it kinda is. I mean what else are you gonna do, try to move away with swiftness?

Heartseeker

? Even my Engineer will catch up to you in no time, and Engineer is not exactly a mobile class.

1 Daggerstorm2 Sword 23 Sword 54 Shadowstep5 Steal into other preoc enemy6 F2 if you steak from thief7 hearthseeker in smoke fieldthose are just of the top of my head. in theory you could chase down after thief uses some of them but you would use more utility to chase then they use to escape, and after using 1 of thse they can follow up with another if need be.

Lets go over them. "Daggerstorm". Its even more of a valuable cooldown than Shadowstep is, and it only does so much. Itll cover about, hm, 520 distance over 2.75 seconds? Again, I could catch up to that as an Engineer using just Jump Shot. Sword 2, only works if your enemy doesnt push you towards your sword 2 location. Which a good one will. Sword 5. Thief doesnt have offhand sword. If you mean Dagger 5, that one is slow, telegraphed and doesnt even help you that much because youre in prime cleave range. Shadowstep, yeah, but too valuable. Stealign to another enemy doesnt help you disengage. It just switches who you need to disengage from.

F2 when stealing from thief works, but youre not gonna be disengaging from a thief. Also, if done in melee range, still prime cleave range. "Heartseeker in a smoke field"

way

too slow. If you need to disengage, you need to do so

right now

, not go through 1.25 seconds of animation that your opponent can freely hit you during, and with the opponent being able to just go towards where youre heartseeking to cleave you down. Id also say too initiative intensive to usually be an option, but that is secondary.

Actually, you can chase the thief down after all but 4 and 2 if you didnt push them down. And you would need to use almost nothing.

Jump Shot

suffices. Nevermind Rush, Whirlwind attack, Swoop, Intervention, Frigid Blitz, or any other dash or shadowstep that almost all classes have on their weaponsets.

I must be playing against some God thiefs all the time then.5Head thief masterminds everywhere.you dont push thief into his sword 2 retreat, thief decides where he kites away, it is a node game. if enemy decides to push towards your port spot you decap, show them middle finger and leave them etc etc.

Not really. There are 2 scenarios. Either you started on the node, or the thief did. Realistically, the latter is more likely, as thief is the decap class. Obviously in the latter, pushing into the sword 2 spot is trivial, because its on the node where you want to be anyway. In the former, it would be trickier, except if you see a thief barreling at you, you simply walk back further into the Node. If he wants to port on you, he then does so from a spot thats pretty close to the node. Walk forward to it, and youre still safe on the node. The thief really doesnt have enough agency to create port spots wherever he wants, not if he wants to get close enough to fight and not just be shot at from afar, at any rate.

Steal can be used to pets/clones/gates/beast or just enemies that cant pressure you, its a good option.

Gates and beasts work, but that is incredibly narrow. Pets and clones are usually too close to the person youre trying to disengage from to actually be disengaging from them. Maybe not clones, they ^do like to move erratically.

Yes dagger 5, and you can cast it behind you and turn around to trick it or combine it with steal or hit clone/pet whatever.

Cast it ... behind you? The animation is clearly visible from any angle, and its still not fast. Casting it behind you and turning around doesnt really help you. Combining it with steal just means youre in cleave range and the opponent will have little trouble tracking you. Clones and Pets do work, but even then youre usually too close.

Hearthseeker + smoke fiedl, expecially p5 is super safe, p5 applies blind so you are safe, and after first jump you create both distance and stealth. oponent has to guess if he should cleave smoke filed when thief is not even inside, or just take a guess with tp/leaps and cleave air.

Its not safe. At all. Its actually hilariously unsafe. Sure, you get one (!!!!) blind, but its still 1.25 seconds of animations during which the enemy gets free reign hitting you, and its not like they cant just move towards where you heartseekered. But yeah, I have seen a lot of thieves do it mid-combat, thinking it was safe. Only to eat a Grenade Barrage and get downed immediately. Poor guys, but they knew what they were getting into when they brought thief into 2v2.

And F2 bundle works, I have midnight signet that works exactly the same, and I dont have problems using it to disengage, it even lasts 2s instead of 3.

It works depending on class. If they have no/limited cleave and no/limited AoE, yeah it does. Not a lot of builds like that though.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Tayga.3192 said:@Leonidrex.5649 and @"UNOwen.7132"

Let's just wait for mAT, and see how good thieves play against good players. Currently, neither of you can prove anything (unless with several videos on different cases).

There are times when someone can just "about face and hold w" to disengage, and sometimes you can't disengage even with shortbow 5. There are also cases a guardian can disengage from a power herald or from a thief. GW2 is all about cooldowns.

Oh Im not saying thief isnt good. As long as shortbow 5 exists, and as long as Conquest is the main gamemode, I cant even imagine a meta where thief isnt good. Im not even saying theyre not good at disengaging because again, shortbow 5 (honestly we should just call the class Shortbow 5 at this point). Im saying that Daredevils third dodge, as far as "upgrades" the class get, is really minor. I mean thats kinda my main gripe with Daredevil, it doesnt feel like an elite spec. It just felt like slightly altered Acrobatics. Its the same issue I have with scrapper, except at least Scrapper got the Function Gyro (before that got blasted apart).

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@UNOwen.7132 said:Its not safe. At all. Its actually hilariously unsafe. Sure, you get one (!!!!) blind, but its still 1.25 seconds of animations during which the enemy gets free reign hitting you, and its not like they cant just move towards where you heartseekered. But yeah, I have seen a lot of thieves do it mid-combat, thinking it was safe. Only to eat a Grenade Barrage and get downed immediately. Poor guys, but they knew what they were getting into when they brought thief into 2v2.

I think its 2 blindsThe one the moment you cast it , and another after 1 sec .Also Heartseeker has a leep , that allow you to travel some distance and avoid the meele player

[UNOwen.7132]

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Its not safe. At all. Its actually

hilariously

unsafe. Sure, you get one (!!!!) blind, but its still 1.25 seconds of animations during which the enemy gets free reign hitting you, and its not like they cant just move towards where you heartseekered. But yeah, I have seen a lot of thieves do it mid-combat, thinking it was safe. Only to eat a Grenade Barrage and get downed immediately. Poor guys, but they knew what they were getting into when they brought thief into 2v2.

I think its 2 blindsThe one the moment you cast it , and another after 1 sec .Also Heartseeker has a leep , that allow you to travel some distance and avoid the meele player

The enemy has to walk into the field for the second blind. Or stay in it, I suppose. Its not that big though, so you can just walk out. And yeah, Heartseekr has a leap, but it takes quite some time to even get to that part, and even then they can just follow you with their own dash, like Rush.

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Its not safe. At all. Its actually

hilariously

unsafe. Sure, you get one (!!!!) blind, but its still 1.25 seconds of animations during which the enemy gets free reign hitting you, and its not like they cant just move towards where you heartseekered. But yeah, I have seen a lot of thieves do it mid-combat, thinking it was safe. Only to eat a Grenade Barrage and get downed immediately. Poor guys, but they knew what they were getting into when they brought thief into 2v2.

I think its 2 blindsThe one the moment you cast it , and another after 1 sec .Also Heartseeker has a leep , that allow you to travel some distance and avoid the meele player

The enemy has to walk into the field for the second blind. Or stay in it, I suppose. Its not that big though, so you can just walk out. And yeah, Heartseekr has a leap, but it takes quite some time to even get to that part, and even then they can just follow you with their own dash, like Rush.

If heartseeker + Powder have a 1,25 sec cast time , wouldn't the enemy stay inside the blind field for the second blind too ?

None can escape the Rush.Its the company favorite child .But wouldnt be better the spamm the heartseeker for its leap mechanic , rather than using Infiltrator's Arrow ? By doing Heartseeker , it gives you more time to restore Iniviative , while covering the same distance ?

[UNOwen.7132]

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Its not safe. At all. Its actually

hilariously

unsafe. Sure, you get one (!!!!) blind, but its still 1.25 seconds of animations during which the enemy gets free reign hitting you, and its not like they cant just move towards where you heartseekered. But yeah, I have seen a lot of thieves do it mid-combat, thinking it was safe. Only to eat a Grenade Barrage and get downed immediately. Poor guys, but they knew what they were getting into when they brought thief into 2v2.

I think its 2 blindsThe one the moment you cast it , and another after 1 sec .Also Heartseeker has a leep , that allow you to travel some distance and avoid the meele player

The enemy has to walk into the field for the second blind. Or stay in it, I suppose. Its not that big though, so you can just walk out. And yeah, Heartseekr has a leap, but it takes quite some time to even get to that part, and even then they can just follow you with their own dash, like Rush.

If heartseeker + Powder have a 1,25 sec cast time , wouldn't the enemy stay inside the blind field for the second blind too ?

None can escape the Rush.Its the company favorite child .But wouldnt be better the spamm the heartseeker for its leap mechanic , rather than using Infiltrator's Arrow ? By doing Heartseeker , it gives you more time to restore Iniviative , while covering the same distance ?

Its a matter of speed. Heartseeker covers the same distance, but does so very slowly. Infiltrators Arrow on the other hand, being a shadowstep with a fast projectile speed is quite fast. Also, slopes. Heartseeker struggles with them, SB 5 lets you just teleport up inclines.