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Strike wont make me raid


Zzik.5873

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@Josiah.2967 said:Looking For Group raiding was the best thing that happened to WOW in ages. It is what this game needs. An easier casual version of raiding where people can experience some great content for the first time. You que for a group and when it's full you are ported in. The bigger question is does GW2 have the player base to support such a system.

Honestly, I would love Dungeon Finder too. Dungeons are a pain in the neck to do in their current state. Maybe give a 10% DPS/Health/Healing buff for every player not in your party and call it a day.

Apples vs. Oranges.

In WoW raids were a continuation, if not, the culmination of the story for that expansion. All the best gear, most of the best mounts, etc, all came from raids. Around the time of WoTLK, Blizzard expressed frustration that all their work and effort into designing raids was being experienced by a fraction of the population. In TBC there were no pug raids - not really. By mid-way through WoTLK you saw that a bit more; my guild leader organized weekly 25 man pug raids, and we all brought our alt characters.

GW2 raiding isn't the same thing. They story they offer is tangent to the overall story of the game. Unique skins are present, but the gear isn't any higher a quality than what can be earned elsewhere. I'd say that the major loot incentive for raiding is faster acquisition of Legendary Armor, but Leg armor can still be earned via WvW / PvP avenues.

Blizzard eventually created LFR because it was important to them that as many players raided as possible. In TBC you didn't fight any of the major villains (Vashj, Kael or Illidan) outside of Raids. In WoTLK you needed to raid to fight Arthas...and the same continued with future expansions and villains.

I bet you many GW2 players have no idea who Dhuum or Qadim are, nor does it matter to them that they haven't fought them. Raiding isn't as essential to the GW2 endgame system as it is in WoW.

So while it's great ANET want's to expand the appeal of raiding to GW2 players, it isn't done so for the same reasons Blizzard bent over backwards to make raids accessible.

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@Shena Fu.5792 said:The problem is Anet doesn't even know what they themselves want, but try to read the players' mind on why they detest and avoid raids? I mean, conceptually what's the difference between dungeons, fractals, raids, and now strike missions? They're the same genre of content, but for some reason Anet wants to splinter the content, and consequently also splinter the playerbase.

As for easier raids, shouldn't the solution be to use the same maps, but provide varying levels of difficulty? Like the dungeons with easier story mode and harder exploration modes. So that players can familiarize with the same map, mechanics, and encounters. What doesn't relate is how completing strike missions would help with raids, when their requirements are totally different--possibly even opposite and counterproductive of each other.

Unfortunately, what don't differ between modes are the elitism and toxicity with certain raiders (where raider here generally means players who devote to instanced, small group, high difficulty content, including in GW2 dungeons, fractals, raids, and strike missions). The elitism, toxicity, arrogance, exclusion, etc. will persist due to the nature of this type of content. And this type of behavior won't vanish just because difficulty is altered. As we have seen for dungeons and fractals, and now strike missions, some devoted players will always want to do it faster, better.

So the elitism and exclusion remains; just because you call these contents different names won't make the issues magically go away. It's inherent in this type of content. And why huge portion of the playerbase won't engage in any similar content--it's the principle of the matter.

+10

you are outrightly correct. Those are the exact reasons why i don't raid and do not have any intention of doing so

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@Josiah.2967 said:

@"sevenDEADLY.5281" said:How would you propose a queue system in this game work? Other MMOs have the regular Tank, Healer, DPS trinity to role queue. Here we don't have that but we do have a soft group subset. While not 100% required, things like alacrity support, quickness support, healers, banner warrior, and the appropriate tank make raids 10x more manageable than not having any of those. If you just throw 10 randos into a raid queue you could end up with literally none of those things.

Easy.. . You Que for a dungeon.40% more health40% more dps40% more healing received

You should have no problem healing yourself or getting a few AOE heals from the group to be able to handle any dungeon. Maybe add 20% damage reduction to if you need to.

Those numbers are extremely unrealistic. Why not just make it so when you enter, all the bosses just die instantly? That's taking "challenging group content (Arenanet's purposeful design)" and turning it into a joke simply because some people can't be bothered to better themselves. Even WoW's dungeon queue only added 5% - 15% to the things you're describing and that already turns the dungeons into a walking simulator.

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Just to toss my few cents in here:I tried to get into raiding once, I've dedicated considerable amount of effort to get minimal required gear - as per raiding community advises at the time - trinkets and weapons ascended, armor exotic. Wasn't ever a persistent farmer myself hence even that was big effort for me.

and just after I have got that assembled and started running some runs with friends from a guild to introduce me into mechanics balance pass came that heavilly shifted he meta - and now all my gear I have worked for so long was "wrong". Since friends encouraged that it can still work just won't be optimally strong I have hanged around for one more week.

Why only one more week?Because then we started trying fruther bosses than just vale guardian, and we were failing dps checks on sabetha, and dpsers were complaining about insufficient might generation. Considering I was a druid which now had a role for might generation and I had clerics instead of harriers, I had added the dots, come to conclusion that it's my gear defficiencies that are hamperign the squad and decided to get back to the topic once I will get the "proper" gear.

Which I didn't, like ever.

Now I will admit that I don't know how the balancing of raids changed over the years since that but I am still convinced on not going back without full ascended set. I was pretty "meh" about strike missions as they have released - only bothered really with shiverpeaks pass because I really wanted ebon vanguard shoulderpiece skin for my thief. But with newest updates to it I have found the crystals to be finally a method of gearing up accessible enough for me to be able to meet the gear goal in comfortable timespan. In that regard strike missions for now appears "good" for closing the gap - I can get geared up while I get comfortable with 10-man mechanics and compositions and how weird boss mechanics affects the scope. So that's a win for me ;)

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@"Zaklex.6308" said:Let me stop you right there, do you even know what the actual true definition of an MMO is? I'm not sure everyone here understands it, and I'm talking the definition as defined in today's world, not as it was 10 - 20 years ago. To make it simple for those that don't get it, I'll break it down: M = Massive(that's an easy one); M = Multi-player, ala multiple players(not groups, just multiple players inhabiting the same world space); O = Online(again, that's easy). So, in essence it's really a huge game that allows hundreds if not thousands of people to play in the same world space alone OR with others. This whole game is basically been single player(s) on the same plane since the beginning with the Personal Stories(all single player instances up until Zaitan until it was redone as a single player instance), and they've continued that with the LS with the exceptions of some parts of LS1(which I skipped because I already didn't like it before release) and this latest Visions of the Past.Were you just here to dance or did you have a point to prove somewhere in there? You are after all asking about the "true" definition of MMO, suggest that it is different now from how it used to be only to quote the definition as it always has been.

Not only that but you then proceed to claim that it has always been single-player driven while every player who played back then knows that no one cared about the personal story at release. It was generally regarded as piecemeal and bad. The maps and the dynamic events made up the majority of your playtime. Even the dungeons were played far more than the story and while not massive, at least they were multiplayer. You mention some exceptions in LS1 but if you look at the releases of the game (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Release): the focus on Living World as something that transpires on the open maps in a massive-multiplayer environment comprised the first two years of the game. It was generally massive-multiplayer events on the maps or event-instances of the maps. The stuff people actually cared about with LS1, like the Marionette events, was clear-cut MMO content. The stuff that made the game sell 3-4 million copies in the first few years was the dynamic events on the maps, world bosses and all PvP. That is what was marketed and sold.

What has transpired after that can best be described as waves of failed attempts to draw in other audiences and hoping that their core audience won't abandon them. That's the trainwreck of failures that we have seen since even if it is true for most part that their core audience has proven loyal and resilient.

Ed. In fact, arguably, even S2 was mostly run as an aside, setting up the expansion as a prelude with a new type of event maps and even HoT was initially more map-focused with the verticality and the new event maps - the more grindy kind of event map (with progression-end boss-reset) that you have mostly seen accompanying LS ever since. It wasn't really until later that the story of the LS started to take more focus than the event map that accompanied it. S3 had perhaps more a focus on the story with the maps being variably good or bad.

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@sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

@sevenDEADLY.5281 said:How would you propose a queue system in this game work? Other MMOs have the regular Tank, Healer, DPS trinity to role queue. Here we don't have that but we do have a soft group subset. While not 100% required, things like alacrity support, quickness support, healers, banner warrior, and the appropriate tank make raids 10x more manageable than not having any of those. If you just throw 10 randos into a raid queue you could end up with literally none of those things.

Easy.. . You Que for a dungeon.40% more health40% more dps40% more healing received

You should have no problem healing yourself or getting a few AOE heals from the group to be able to handle any dungeon. Maybe add 20% damage reduction to if you need to.

Those numbers are extremely unrealistic. Why not just make it so when you enter, all the bosses just die instantly? That's taking "challenging group content (Arenanet's purposeful design)" and turning it into a joke simply because some people can't be bothered to better themselves. Even WoW's dungeon queue only added 5% - 15% to the things you're describing and that already turns the dungeons into a walking simulator.

Percentages can easily be adjusted. Guild Wars 2 does not have a dedicated trinity, so I believe the numbers need to be slightly higher. That was just an example on the top of my head.

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I think it's more than just the difficulty of raids keeping people out - it's the toxicity of the raid community, and the lack of proper game mechanic tutorials. There are people who have played since launch who still don't know what "cc" is. =scI don't mind the difficulty but my work schedule is too chaotic to join a raid guild. I would only be able to join them once in a month which isn't enough time for me to learn anything or be a help them. It's really frustrating.

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I don't think that it is a misconception by ArenaNet. It's just that 80% of the players are bad at the game. And that's it. Don't get me wrong, I am not attacking anyone but bad players are bad players. Period. There is no reason to hide this fact. When I see people running around in Strikemissions who don't even have the ability (mentally, physically) to dodge a 2 seconds casting attack by an enemy (Claw and Voice) then that's just being bad. And that's fine!I find it more fascinating that these bad players come to the forum or ingame and complain about how hard some parts of the game are. Duhhh.And if you tell them that they are just bad and that they should work on themselfs and improve, they get toxic and refuse to do anything, they even start to blame the game! Imagine! I don't get it. If you are bad, then that's fine. But don't complain about content you are not able to beat. What kind of attitude is that? Just don't play it or "git gud". I know many player refuse to think that way but that's the truth. You are not entitled that the entire game adapts to your skill level. And people couldn't care less whether you are playing Strikemissions or not as long as player play it. Whenever I go online, even at midnight, the lfg is full with people looking for groups to do Strikemissions. So it seems to me that it is pretty successful. Who cares that you don't play Raids or Strikemissions then? Just don't do it and move along. There are many player who enjoy Raids and Strikemissions and who love the thrill of achivement and self-improvement. If you are not one of them, then good for you I guess?For example: Breakbars are such an easy mechanic. I don't understand why people still stuggle with it, even today! Just use your cc?! I don't get it. It's just 1 click on your keyboard. 1 click on an ability that impairs movement. Why is it so hard for some people? Why?

The worst thing that ArenaNet could ever do is to adapt the game, in general, to these bad players skill level. In my opinion, the game should be way harder than it is today, especially in PvE. That would, hopefully, make player finally turn on their brain and make them start to think about what they are actually doing. I even believe that some player don't read their skills and just press random buttons. Why tho? [sarcasm] But I understand: Pressing "V" or "Double W" is really hard. The same goes for skills other than 1. Why not make every enemy in the game fall down with just 1 autoattack? Wouldn't that be fun? Or even better: Remove the whole combat and just run a 10 hours cinematic. That would please them right? I mean it's not really different from what some player already request.The game is almost 8 years old and some people still don't understand how cc works. And that's frustrating because it's just so simple. I really don't get it. I really don't!

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@"Wubbbi.8172" said:I don't think that it is a misconception by ArenaNet. It's just that 80% of the players are bad at the game. And that's it. Don't get me wrong, I am not attacking anyone but bad players are bad players. Peroid. There is no reason to hide this fact. When I see people running around in Strikemissions who don't even have the ability (mentally, physically) to dodge a 2 second casting attack by an enemy (Claw and Voice) then that's just being bad. And that's fine!I find it more fascinating that these bad players come to the forum or ingame and complain about how hard some parts of the game are. Duhhh.And if you tell them that they are just bad and that they should work on them and improve, they just get toxic and refuse to do anything. And I don't get it. If you are bad, then that's fine. But don't complain about content you are not able to beat. What kind of attitude is that? Just don't play it or "git gud". I know many player refuse to think that way but that's the truth. You are not entitled that the entire game adapts to your skill level. And people couldn't care less whether you are playing Strikemissions or not as long as player play it. Whenever I go online, even at midnight, the lfg is full with people looking for groups to do Strikemissions. So it seems to me that it is pretty successful. Who cares that you don't play Raids or Strikemissions then? Just don't do it and move along. There are many player that enjoy Raids and Strikemissions and love the thrill of achivement and self-improvement. If you are not one of them, then good for you I guess?For example: Breakbars are such an easy mechanic. I don't understand why people still stuggle with it, even today! Just use your cc?! I don't get it. It's just 1 click on your keyboard. 1 click on an ability that impairs movement. Why is it so hard for some people? Why?

The worse thing that ArenaNet could ever so is to adapt the game, in general, to these bad players skill level. In my opinion, the game should be way harder than it is today, especially in PvE. That would, hopefully, make player finally turn on their brain and make them start to think about what they are actually doing. I even believe that some player don't read their skills and just press random buttons. Why tho? [irony] But I understand: Pressing "V" or "Double W" is really hard. The same goes for skills other than 1. Why not make every enemy in the game fall down with just 1 autoattack? Wouldn't that be fun? Or even better: Remove the whole combat and just run a 10 hour cinematic. That would please them right? I mean it's not really different from what some player already request.The game is almost 8 years old and people still don't understand how cc works. And that's frustrating because it's just so simple. I really don't get it. I really don't

I liked your rant, could not have said it better myself.

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I honestly don't think Anet even knows at this point.

We already have Dungeons, Fractals, Raids and now Strike Missions. Dungeons, and fractals are already stepping stones into learning Raids. Only main difference is that Raids have advance boss mechanics.

If they really wanted people to get into raids, they could have adjusted the raids themselves. Take a page from fractals, with tiers.

Raids are essentially Dungeons in this game on a higher scale as its post 80 content, but why not just make a lower tier for people who are curious but want to know the mechanics but adjust the difficulty and rewards. Want better rewards and the currency for the legendary armour? then do the "higher tier" or what the current raid is.

Currently, these strike missions are tied to the Ice Brood masteries, and none of these strike mission bosses are IN raids, so what are we teaching people? that there are bosses out there that are difficult that have different mechanics to the "stack and wack" standard bosses out in open world/ dungeons/ some fractals. Why not add in at least the first wing raid bosses? to teach people at least the first wing bosses?

I feel like strike missions will fade away within the year as content for people to care about wanting to do, if they don't make some adjustments to it. I get the idea behind it, but I don't think the execution is laid out properly.

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That would require a premise that is simply not true.

If they were actually trying to get people to do raids then that would imply they were stuff putting a lot of efforts into creating raids but there is nothing to suggest that they are.

Raids look like just another one of the failed experiments. Dungeons would be another.

Strikes is the new thing. Success or failure is yet to be determined.

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@"Alyster.9470" said:Wow, why do people get so offended by strikes lol? If you dont want to do raids, then just dont do it? I never heard ANet "Forcing" people to do them, smh.

I honestly believe it's because the meta achievement and a mastery point. The lock of a "Strike" mastery line, makes some players feel they need it for world content.

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@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@"Zaklex.6308" said:Let me stop you right there, do you even know what the actual true definition of an MMO is? I'm not sure everyone here understands it, and I'm talking the definition as defined in today's world, not as it was 10 - 20 years ago. To make it simple for those that don't get it, I'll break it down: M = Massive(that's an easy one); M = Multi-player, ala multiple players(not groups, just multiple players inhabiting the same world space); O = Online(again, that's easy). So, in essence it's really a huge game that allows hundreds if not thousands of people to play in the same world space alone OR with others. This whole game is basically been single player(s) on the same plane since the beginning with the Personal Stories(all single player instances up until Zaitan until it was redone as a single player instance), and they've continued that with the LS with the exceptions of some parts of LS1(which I skipped because I already didn't like it before release) and this latest Visions of the Past.Were you just here to dance or did you have a point to prove somewhere in there? You are after all asking about the "true" definition of MMO, suggest that it is different now from how it used to be only to quote the definition as it always has been.

Not only that but you then proceed to claim that it has always been single-player driven while every player who played back then knows that no one cared about the personal story at release. It was generally regarded as piecemeal and bad. The maps and the dynamic events made up the majority of your playtime. Even the dungeons were played far more than the story and while not massive, at least they were multiplayer. You mention some exceptions in LS1 but if you look at the releases of the game (
): the focus on Living World as something that transpires on the open maps in a massive-multiplayer environment comprised the first two years of the game. It was generally massive-multiplayer events on the maps or event-instances of the maps. The stuff people actually cared about with LS1, like the Marionette events, was clear-cut MMO content. The stuff that made the game sell 3-4 million copies in the first few years was the dynamic events on the maps, world bosses and all PvP. That is what was marketed and sold.

What has transpired after that can best be described as waves of failed attempts to draw in other audiences and hoping that their core audience won't abandon them. That's the trainwreck of failures that we have seen since even if it is true for most part that their core audience has proven loyal and resilient.

Ed. In fact, arguably, even S2 was mostly run as an aside, setting up the expansion as a prelude with a new type of event maps and even HoT was initially more map-focused with the verticality and the new event maps - the more grindy kind of event map (with progression-end boss-reset) that you have mostly seen accompanying LS ever since. It wasn't really until later that the story of the LS started to take more focus than the event map that accompanied it. S3 had perhaps more a focus on the story with the maps being variably good or bad.

That was in response to the specific part of your prior post talking about the story isn't working out for ArenaNet, yet the entire game has been story driven from the beginning and still is to this day, and most stories are single-player based. They also heavily pushed the Personal Story before and up to the games release, it wasn't just the Dynamic events, WvW, PvP and World Bosses...it was equal marketing of all 4 parts, not emphasizing one area over another.

I'm pretty sure apart from Map Meta events or world bosses I've done most of the game in a solo mode, only with this latest episode(and Zaitan before the change) did I have to group with others to complete anything main story related. I don't consider the raids in this game main story related. As for LS1, I didn't even play it live because I was sick of it before it even released...can't tell you how but I'm pretty sure it's not that hard to figure out how I could've been sick of it before release, and I didn't like it either.

Do you deny that with the exception of the Map Meta's, Dungeon's(at the start), Fractals and Raids everything else can be done solo, apart from those few(2) maps that require groups to complete. I can tell we're never going to agree so there's really no point in discussing this anymore...perhaps ArenaNet would've been better just following their design intent, what ever story they had outlined and not listened to any players at all, however anti-customer satisfying that would be.

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@"Khisanth.2948" said:That would require a premise that is simply not true.

If they were actually trying to get people to do raids then that would imply they were stuff putting a lot of efforts into creating raids but there is nothing to suggest that they are.

They expressly said that strike missions are a ramp on to raids.So yeah, it is true. And yeah, they are putting the cart before the horse by not making new Raid content while soft-pushing Raid content. Why make new Raid when so many players haven't even played the "Raid they have at home" even once, yet? This is not made for Raid longtime players-- this is an attempt to appeal to new potential Raiders. When those numbers are up, they might make more Raid content, maybe.

But I'm sorry, as much as Raid folks might want that, that's no excuse for the people acting defensive and weirdly hostile over how other people want to play the game if it differs from their preferred way of playing it?

I have not seen one single person say they want Anet to stop making Raids and Strikes, only to keep that stuff opt-in and not entangle it with Story and map meta achievements going forward, it's basically a "but-thou-must" just to frog boil players into harder and harder content in vain hope we will check out raids without actually fixing the fundamental problems with them. We are allowed to push back with our opinion and say "No thank you, please, not like this".

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@Amy of Darkness.5248 said:

@"Khisanth.2948" said:That would require a premise that is simply not true.

If they were actually trying to get people to do raids then that would imply they were stuff putting a lot of efforts into creating raids but there is nothing to suggest that they are.

So yeah, it is true. And yeah, they are putting the cart before the horse by not making new Raid content while soft-pushing Raid content. Why make new Raid when so many players haven't even played the "Raid they have at home" even once, yet? This is not made for Raid longtime players-- this is an attempt to appeal to new potential Raiders. When those numbers are up, they might make more Raid content, maybe.

But I'm sorry, as much as Raid folks might want that, that's no excuse for the people acting defensive and weirdly hostile over how other people want to play the game if it differs from their preferred way of playing it?

I have not seen one single person say they want Anet to stop making Raids and Strikes, only to keep that stuff opt-in and not entangle it with Story and map meta achievements going forward, it's basically a "but-thou-must" just to frog boil players into harder and harder content in vain hope we will check out raids without actually fixing the fundamental problems with them. We are allowed to push back with our opinion and say "No thank you, please, not like this".

The problem is that no developer can fix player behavior, and player behavior is a bigger barrier to this type of content than the content itself. They have the "You must be this tall to ride this ride" mentality built into them from the moment they decide to dedicate their time to it and get into the little clique. Anything that they feel may negatively impact them, real or imagined, such as "people insisting they stop making group content", something that is very definitely made up, they have to go in full on attack mode with "well, you're just bad" and the like. I guess it's easier to argue against the fiction than admit the truth.

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re: Some people will never press more than AA on their main character and refuse to learn basic 3-button rotation too. Should every single one of them make a thread as well so they feel more special? - The other threads about strikes are about strikes being used to gate achievements and story. This thread is about strikes being used to get more people to do raids - which ANet has explicttly said is the purpose of strikes.(under the raids heading, second paragraph)https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97028/a-message-from-andrew-graySo this thread is different from those others - it is not redundant. And it is quite relevant. Other posters have agreed with the OP. And there are those who have disagreed with the OP. That's what these forums are for - discussion.And thanks for the cheap shot where you assert that anyone who doesn't want to raid only wants to auto attack, and refuses to learn the simplest rotations. Players who want to get into strikes and maybe raids need to know the hardships that they're going to face - and toxic l33tists are certainly one of them.

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@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Khisanth.2948" said:That would require a premise that is simply not true.

If they were actually trying to get people to do raids then that would imply they were stuff putting a lot of efforts into creating raids but there is nothing to suggest that they are.

So yeah, it is true. And yeah, they are putting the cart before the horse by not making new Raid content while soft-pushing Raid content. Why make new Raid when so many players haven't even played the "Raid they have at home" even once, yet? This is not made for Raid longtime players-- this is an attempt to appeal to new potential Raiders. When those numbers are up, they might make more Raid content, maybe.

But I'm sorry, as much as Raid folks might want that, that's no excuse for the people acting defensive and weirdly hostile over how other people want to play the game if it differs from their preferred way of playing it?

I have not seen one single person say they want Anet to stop making Raids and Strikes, only to keep that stuff opt-in and not entangle it with Story and map meta achievements going forward, it's basically a "but-thou-must" just to frog boil players into harder and harder content in vain hope we will check out raids without actually fixing the fundamental problems with them. We are allowed to push back with our opinion and say "No thank you, please, not like this".

The problem is that no developer can fix player behavior, and player behavior is a bigger barrier to this type of content than the content itself. They have the "You must be this tall to ride this ride" mentality built into them from the moment they decide to dedicate their time to it and get into the little clique. Anything that they feel may negatively impact them, real or imagined, such as "people insisting they stop making group content", something that is very definitely made up, they have to go in full on attack mode with "well, you're just bad" and the like. I guess it's easier to argue against the fiction than admit the truth.

Well said. Nothing wrong with raids, it serves a particular player type and anet should keep assigning resource to raids proportional to the value the player base gets out of it.

Equally it would be good if anet acknowledged that people enjoyed strikes assuming that the case, and perhaps design a type of raid that other demographics enjoy alongside strikes.

Devs thinking that players will like the current style of raids because they will use strikes as a stepping stone is ill informed. It's like saying: you don't like marmite, but you will like marmite if you try gravy. No, I just don't like marmite!

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@"Elden Arnaas.4870" said:re: Some people will never press more than AA on their main character and refuse to learn basic 3-button rotation too. Should every single one of them make a thread as well so they feel more special? - The other threads about strikes are about strikes being used to gate achievements and story. This thread is about strikes being used to get more people to do raids - which ANet has explicttly said is the purpose of strikes.(under the raids heading, second paragraph)https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97028/a-message-from-andrew-graySo this thread is different from those others - it is not redundant. And it is quite relevant. Other posters have agreed with the OP. And there are those who have disagreed with the OP. That's what these forums are for - discussion.And thanks for the cheap shot where you assert that anyone who doesn't want to raid only wants to auto attack, and refuses to learn the simplest rotations. Players who want to get into strikes and maybe raids need to know the hardships that they're going to face - and toxic l33tists are certainly one of them.

He didn't actually cheap shot you if your not the guy aa only. In fact his whole rant wasn't that bad. There are alot of players who join content they aren't geared/prepared or specced for. If I join Whisper and get downed instantly a few times and we wipe and the group asks me to change stuff or even class and I don't and the group removes me that's fine. And that's whisper. Nvm the guys getting downed over and over in groth but it's groth so they carry you. Then that same dude or 2 or 3 join raven and it's downed downed downed others get downed rezzing etc nvm BS Whisper or raids. I don't raid but you kinda get it when so many players join stuff and expect to be carried. Sometimes you can but sometimes you cause the wipe. So if raiders ask you to change specc and learn in the lfg then don't join unless you are willing too. I don't. I mean that's toxic as well joining a lfg that say whisper exp only when your not exp at all.I also see nonsense the opposite way. Today a group was farming koda in lfg asking for meta raid builds so I block that leader even tho I wouldn't join that group and the dudes rocking 3k AP. I've been targeted by the ldr in effing groth because I move outta the way when it's inv him screaming stack like it's effing groth so yeah both sides are toxic. But assessing the player base as highly unskilled is a legit observation. You won't see much toxicity if you join stuff you are geared/specced and prepared for so don't.

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To be fair nothing in any game ever could make me raid again. I used to be a raid in WoW back in the day but they just arn't fun anymore since the general attitude went from "yeah whatever if we don't clear we'll get it eventually, what matters is we have fun doing it" to today where its "if we don't get world first on the first day this raid is out I'm litterally going to spontaneously combust IN REAL LIFE and DIE but not before SCREAMING at my guild for 4 HOURS after ONE WIPE"

I just can't deal with people anymore and nothing could make me go back to the fiasco of toxicity that is every raid community. offer me whatever reward you can think of, it ain't worth my health.

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@"Cobrakon.3108" said:Raids won't interest me until repetitive dmg rotations are erased from the meta. I need battle mechanics to be more of a constant thing, lower hp pool but make bosses harder, make it so top damage isn't someone with "standing in one place" damage meta. Instead, make it so top damage are those who get in their big attacks while surviving. Reduce reliance on healers or tanks for group survival and instead make healing and tanks save individuals instead of bulk healing.

You don't understand the meta. "get in their attacks while surviving" just sounds like you havent done raids or fractal cms. everyone would just play ip thief then with 6k hps selfheal.fractal cm bosses have quite threatening attacks. dps is just so high that you cant see them since they die during stuns. bosses need higher hp not lower, most mechanics are skipped now. experienced groups play without healers aswell now.

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@reative.4093 said:If You want raid play in WoW. GW2 have superb other things that WoW don't have. GW2 is not raiding game and never will be.

I really wish Anet understood this a while back. I used to play SWToR and do raids. I specifically started playing GW2 cuz it does not have emphasis on such content. It is not designed for 10 minutes encounters. In my opinion all these resources poured in raids and strike mission is absolutely wasted resources, that would have been much better used in developing more open world content.

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