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Suggestion: Lower wvw squad size to 25 ppl.


Vova.2640

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I know this wont fix the main problem, blob guilds will just run 2-3 squads, but at least it will make coordination harder for blobs while not punishing groups that run smaller.Step by step try to lower whole number meta.The game becomes so much more fun when fights are on a smaller scale, rather then a lagfest of 50v50v50 squads.....

EDIT:Just to clarify.Im not saying this is a all-in-all solution that will solve blobbing once and for all.Im just suggesting something minor that could help discourage blobbing (by making it harder to coordinate + share boons/heals between squads) and empower smaller groups.Thats all.

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That's still way too many, no single coordinated group should exceed ten people. Guilds will still use Discord, Mumble or Teamspeak to coordinate but managing all the buff distribution etc. will become harder and give the smaller side an advantage. Forcing multiple tags up also helps to confuse PUGs and reduce the number of players flocking to follow a single Commander tag.

We also need a basic Mentor-style tag in WvW for roaming, havoc and other small-scale groups, where there is no squad just a tag that you can follow which will help to break numbers down even more by encouraging multiple conflicting agendas.

It'll lead to some infighting but that's better than the opposite side just being decimated all the time.

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The number meta existed before squads existed. Lowering the limit will do exactly nothing.

Personally I still think they should encourage spreading out over more tags by increasing its functionality, not limit it. I would still like to see things such as:

  • Hover over short descriptions ("Zerging", "Havoc", "I want bay", etc). This is to encourage easily defined parties at a glance.
  • More shapes to customize squad tags and encourage smaller groups to run with "their own" tags.
  • Squad size indicator, such as 1-3 chevrons beneath the tag to indicate 1-10, 11-25, 26-50.
  • Map/team chat should note if the talker is a commander (this is just to boost peoples egos and make them want to tag up for it).
  • Ability to set simple attack/defend objectives for bonus points for the entire squad.

Etc and so on.

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I was going to say things but Dawdler said them already.

He's right. Squads have been a great improvement thus far, but they need to be pushed even further to facilitate the level of coordination that this game mode requires...especially if you're running multiple small-scale groups. The reason people run in zergs is because it's easy and all of the rewards are tailored to zerging. This would be true with or without squads, but they can help make non-zerg activities less daunting with a little work.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Answer 95% of WvW issues are summed up by three things:

Nerf boon spamNerf stealthRemove downstate.

All I see happening with all of these is the effective removal of support from this game, which is already only barely viable. You need a new game plan, friend, that doesn't involve trouncing on the way that others want or need to play.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Answer 95% of WvW issues are summed up by three things:

Nerf boon spamNerf stealthRemove downstate.

All I see happening with all of these is the effective removal of support from this game, which is already only barely viable. You need a new game plan, friend, that doesn't involve trouncing on the way that others want or need to play.

So, in your opinion boon spam is not a problem, stealth is a balanced and fair mechanic, and downstate is a healthy?K.

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This does nothing to stop blobbing since pugs contribute little to the group comp in most cases. This is doubly true for pugmanders who don't have a comp at all. For those of you that understand how party structure works, you would know no matter how you arrange the thieves and rangers, it doesn't mater.

Also WvW is a game mode that features large scale combat and most organization is carried out in comms anyways.

Well I suppose it'll cause even more whining about not being invited because of class I guess. I would imagine most guild groups would not want to run open at all.

The other thing is that most blobs consist of multiple bandwagon guilds holding each other's jewels. Hint: They're not in the same squads anyways.

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@"Dawdler.8521" said:The number meta existed before squads existed. Lowering the limit will do exactly nothing.

Personally I still think they should encourage spreading out over more tags by increasing its functionality, not limit it. I would still like to see things such as:

  • Hover over short descriptions ("Zerging", "Havoc", "I want bay", etc). This is to encourage easily defined parties at a glance.
  • More shapes to customize squad tags and encourage smaller groups to run with "their own" tags.
  • Squad size indicator, such as 1-3 chevrons beneath the tag to indicate 1-10, 11-25, 26-50.
  • Map/team chat should note if the talker is a commander (this is just to boost peoples egos and make them want to tag up for it).
  • Ability to set simple attack/defend objectives for bonus points for the entire squad.

Etc and so on.

This.

Blobbing was present before squads existed, it would be present even if no party or squad options would be available.

While I agree with the sentiment that it might be productive to offer more incentive or opportunity for smaller groups, as long as blobbing works, it will remain the go-to approach for singular victory.

It's not even the most efficient way to play currently. If a blob is faced with multiple coordinated groups, they can not respond to enough objectives, essentially losing the objective and ppt war. No one cares though since steamrolling the enemy and getting bags is more important.

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@ArchonWing.9480 said:This does nothing to stop blobbing since pugs contribute little to the group comp in most cases. This is doubly true for pugmanders who don't have a comp at all. For those of you that understand how party structure works, you would know no matter how you arrange the thieves and rangers, it doesn't mater.

Also WvW is a game mode that features large scale combat and most organization is carried out in comms anyways.

Well I suppose it'll cause even more whining about not being invited because of class I guess. I would imagine most guild groups would not want to run open at all.

The other thing is that most blobs consist of multiple bandwagon guilds holding each other's jewels. Hint: They're not in the same squads anyways.

I agree it prob wont stop blobbing but it defo will decrease the effectiveness of 50 people stacking on eachother, no?

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@"Dawdler.8521" said:The number meta existed before squads existed. Lowering the limit will do exactly nothing.

Personally I still think they should encourage spreading out over more tags by increasing its functionality, not limit it. I would still like to see things such as:

  • Hover over short descriptions ("Zerging", "Havoc", "I want bay", etc). This is to encourage easily defined parties at a glance.
  • More shapes to customize squad tags and encourage smaller groups to run with "their own" tags.
  • Squad size indicator, such as 1-3 chevrons beneath the tag to indicate 1-10, 11-25, 26-50.
  • Map/team chat should note if the talker is a commander (this is just to boost peoples egos and make them want to tag up for it).
  • Ability to set simple attack/defend objectives for bonus points for the entire squad.

Etc and so on.

Agreed on most of this, except for the first suggestion, as that already exists. If people would use the LFG tool more extensively, players would be presented with a nice list of groups and tags plus a description in the top left corner of their screen when they enter any WvW map. But that is a player-issue and I have been fighting windmills on it for months now.

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@"Vova.2640" said:I know this wont fix the main problem, blob guilds will just run 2-3 squads, but at least it will make coordination harder for blobs while not punishing groups that run smaller.Step by step try to lower whole number meta.The game becomes so much more fun when fights are on a smaller scale, rather then a lagfest of 50v50v50 squads.....

What’s the problem? Maps allow for a lot of players for RvR gameplay, so there is nothing to resolve. WvW is supposed to be a mass pvp zone.

It doesn’t matter what squad size limits Anet imposes, coordination is often done on discord for organized groups. You’d still have players following 1 commander over voice even if you limited squad size to 10 each.

Lag? That’s been an ongoing problem that squad size doesn’t resolve.

This is wvw...

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this is a good suggestion that has been said a few times. there have been numerous good suggestions over the years, unfortunately anet thinks everything is fine and put wvw into maintenance mode. I would look elsewhere for big battle content.

Limiting squad size doesn’t do anything. Anet made an RvR mode with like 100 player map caps for each map and for each side.

RvR is a 3 sided mass combat war mode, so what’s your issue? Strange, Anet made “big battle content” but you are complaining about that same “big battle content” with 50 person squad sizes? Doesn’t make sense... If you like small scale battles then it’s easy to enter SPvP.

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Anet: lowers squads to 25 people.

WvW players: open a second squad and still run around with 50 people.

Vova: Suprised pikachu face.

Did you even read what I wrote?I am perfectly well aware that people will make 2nd and 3rd squads to continue blobbing down. The idea is that it will make stuff like heals and boons share more difficult, and worse coordination between squads... thus making it easier for 25 and less man groups to fight blobs.

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@Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:This does nothing to stop blobbing since pugs contribute little to the group comp in most cases. This is doubly true for pugmanders who don't have a comp at all. For those of you that understand how party structure works, you would know no matter how you arrange the thieves and rangers, it doesn't mater.

Also WvW is a game mode that features large scale combat and most organization is carried out in comms anyways.

Well I suppose it'll cause even more whining about not being invited because of class I guess. I would imagine most guild groups would not want to run open at all.

The other thing is that most blobs consist of multiple bandwagon guilds holding each other's jewels. Hint: They're not in the same squads anyways.

I agree it prob wont stop blobbing but it defo will decrease the effectiveness of 50 people stacking on eachother, no?

No, because like I said above, most bandwagon blobs are seperate guilds that run multiple tags anyways (sometimes closed so you won't notice). They usually flank and surround the enemies.

I won't doubt there are indeed 50 deep running around but even in those cases they pull pugs and whether they are in the squad are not is irrelevant.

When blobs outnumber the enemy and just 1111 the enemy, being in a squad or not is completely irrelevant. When numbers are even, well, there isn't a problem to begin with. Until there is incentive to win then people will blob (and probably do so anyways)

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Again, the idea is that this is make blobs less favourable in fights. To try and discourage blobbing up and running everything over.It would be harder to coordinate a 2nd/3rd squad on one pin. It will be harder to share boons and heals between squads.

This is not supposed to be a perfect solution.. there is no perfect solution... probably never will be.But this is just one step forwards empowering smaller groups and discouraging blobbing.

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@Vova.2640 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Anet: lowers squads to 25 people.

WvW players: open a second squad and still run around with 50 people.

Vova: Suprised pikachu face.

Did you even read what I wrote?I am perfectly well aware that people will make 2nd and 3rd squads to continue blobbing down. The idea is that it will make stuff like heals and boons share more difficult, and worse coordination between squads... thus making it easier for 25 and less man groups to fight blobs.

Everyone read what you wrote, and you made no mention of heals and buffs...

@Vova.2640 said:I know this wont fix the main problem, blob guilds will just run 2-3 squads, but at least it will make coordination harder for blobs while not punishing groups that run smaller.Step by step try to lower whole number meta.The game becomes so much more fun when fights are on a smaller scale, rather then a lagfest of 50v50v50 squads.....

Squad size isn’t changing, nor will it have the impact you assume. It will be negligible... Also, wvw is an RvR mode made for mass player combat. The rules aren’t changing to favor small group squads.

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@"Vova.2640" said:Again, the idea is that this is make blobs less favourable in fights. To try and discourage blobbing up and running everything over.It would be harder to coordinate a 2nd/3rd squad on one pin. It will be harder to share boons and heals between squads.

This is not supposed to be a perfect solution.. there is no perfect solution... probably never will be.But this is just one step forwards empowering smaller groups and discouraging blobbing.

Learn what wvw was primarily made for... And hint, it’s not modeled after WoW battlegrounds...

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Anet: lowers squads to 25 people.

WvW players: open a second squad and still run around with 50 people.

Vova: Suprised pikachu face.

Did you even read what I wrote?I am perfectly well aware that people will make 2nd and 3rd squads to continue blobbing down. The idea is that it will make stuff like heals and boons share more difficult, and worse coordination between squads... thus making it easier for 25 and less man groups to fight blobs.

Everyone read what you wrote, and you made no mention of heals and buffs...

Again, clearly not. I mentioned in my original post that I am aware that people will make 2nd/3rd squads that is what I was referring to. Learn to read please.

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Vova.2640 said:Again, the idea is that this is make blobs less favourable in fights. To try and discourage blobbing up and running everything over.It would be harder to coordinate a 2nd/3rd squad on one pin. It will be harder to share boons and heals between squads.

This is not supposed to be a perfect solution.. there is no perfect solution... probably never will be.But this is just one step forwards empowering smaller groups and discouraging blobbing.

Learn what wvw was primarily made for... And hint, it’s not modeled after WoW battlegrounds...

Oh? What was it "primarily made" for then?Because from I have seen, when there "100 of players fighting over an objective" the servers just die and skill lag becomes unbearable.I wonder if that was "primarily made" to be like that......

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