Why are Build Templates so Expensive?

[Cekay.2614]

^Title.

I just discovered that i need to buy ~300 gems to Unlock a new Template. For EVERY Character i have seperatly!Thats ~110 Gold each...whats up with that?

The funny thing is, this does NOT include new Equipment slots or account wide templates.Those cost 500 gems each...Thats ~184 Gold for one of those...

I mean come on...why the heck is this so Expensive?

[Ashantara.8731]

They are currently on sale. And yes, I agree with the general tenor of your post.

[Danikat.8537]

Probably because players kept asking for templates for years, so someone at Anet thought they'd be willing to pay this much to get them.

I use the 3 build slots in-game for the builds I use most often and then have a file on my computer with all my builds saved as chat codes (with notes to say what they are) so if I want a different one I can just load it from there, overwriting one of the 'defaults' then replace it afterwards. It's not quite as quick as saving them all in-game but it means I can have as many builds as I want saved for free.

And so far none of my characters have more than 2 sets of equipment. Honestly I'm more inclined to work with what I've got than make or buy a whole new set for perfect stats for one part of the game. If I'd gotten rid of one of my duplicate elementalists or engineers and just used 1 for everything they'd need more equipment space, but I wouldn't want to do that even if it was free.

[hellsqueen.3045]

I can't really tell you/understand your unhappiness with this because:

1. I don't use the build templates/gear templates
2. That's because before those were a thing, I resorted to having a whole different character for each significantly different build I was going to have based on gear (eg. healing tempest, condi tempest/weaver and power weaver). So basically for the same results as a gear and build template, I was paying anywhere between 600-800 gems per new significantly different build depending if they were on sale or not.

So personally to me, paying that much for templates doesn't seem that extreme. The only added benefit to my strategy is that I get to play fashion wars more and I don't have to take up inventory slots with extra gear.

[Skotlex.7580]

@hellsqueen.3045 said:I can't really tell you/understand your unhappiness with this because:

1. I don't use the build templates/gear templates
2. That's because before those were a thing, I resorted to having a whole different character for each significantly different build I was going to have based on gear (eg. healing tempest, condi tempest/weaver and power weaver). So basically for the same results as a gear and build template, I was paying anywhere between 600-800 gems per new significantly different build depending if they were on sale or not.

So personally to me, paying that much for templates doesn't seem that extreme. The only added benefit to my strategy is that I get to play fashion wars more and I don't have to take up inventory slots with extra gear.

Historically it makes sense if you omit the add-on templates that people were used to (meaning that for free, each character had infinite templates).

Without that, it's true: a new character (800 gems) would be equivalent to a new template (300 for build, 500 for equipment). However, currently all new characters come with three build templates and two equipment ones, so a new character (800 gems) is worth 3x300 + 2x500 gems template wise = 1900 gems. So a new character packs a lot more template benefits than buying additional template slots.

It's probably not an equivalent comparison, as there are advantages to having all templates in the same character rather than split amongst many (such as the ease of swapping), but if we go from this perspective alone, three build + two equipment templates should add up to one character slot. So instead of costing 300 and 500, they could easily be half of that and it'd still be more efficient to buy a new character slot.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Why? As is always the case when a business does something, the answer is money. As more and more players max bank space, bag slots and shared inventory over time, ANet needed a new convenience utility to replace that revenue.

Sure, you can get them with gold. However, gold going into the exchange makes buying gold with gems more attractive. Whether you buy with gems or gold, ANet wins.

That said, the revenue from last quarter showed a drop quarter-on-quarter, so the load-outs (not really templates) were probably not the big hit ANet might have hoped for,

[Shena Fu.5792]

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:That said, the revenue from last quarter showed a drop quarter-on-quarter, so the load-outs (not really templates) were probably not the big hit ANet might have hoped for,

anyone could've predicted that. because they don't understand their market.

1. Vast majority don't need more than one, let alone three loadouts. So these won't buy them.

2. Those that want templates (not loadouts), need dozens of them per character. Yet Anet caps them at measly 6. Essentially capping their own profit potential way, way short.

3. Then some won't buy them out of principle, for various reasons. (functionality is insufficient and buggy, won't indulge in Anet's greed, etc.)

[Infusion.7149]

It's a good question but you have to keep in mind they are operating on a micro-transaction model (many low dollar purchases <$10) not gold to gems.

Build templates should have really been account-wide (800 gems or something akin to storage expander / bank tab/ additional craft license) because even with the sale yesterday to 210 gems the PvE playerbase has close to no reason to buy it. If you PvE only then you can buy an equipment template and use all 3 default build templates for PvE and cover power+condi+support.If you PvE+ WvW you can use the first 2 for PvE and third for WvW. If you play all 3 modes and have more than 3 equipment templates then it actually becomes meaningful. However, at the same time it also means you invested heavily into the template system already.

In its current state if you WvW it is more affordable to get a character slot even with discounts (2 equip @ 350 gems= 700 gems already , if you add in a build template @ discounted rate of 210 gems or two it becomes well over 800 gems). The only time it would make sense is if you need exactly one equipment template, which means 500+300 = 800 gems , or discounted yesterday it was 350+210=560 which is coincidentally the price of a discounted character slot. That's a strong argument for having a bulk price for equipment templates when multiple are purchased for a single character , while also implementing account-wide build template upgrades.

In addition, having dedicated WvW character slots means you will not waste utility primers or ascended food durations. Hellsqueen's suggestion of one character per spec isn't viable for WvW because you might get stuck in queue ; having a dedicated WvW character gets around this (especially if it's an engineer scrapper in the current meta).

Side note/observations : I don't anticipate that equipment templates will drop much further than the sale yesterday of 30% to 350 gems, as they compete with bag slots.

Even with the large discount of 40% yesterday (to 300 gems) on build storage it really isn't appealing because the maximum build storage limit wasn't increased and the amount you get per purchase is still 3 slots.

---

Personally I have purchased equipment templates but not build templates or build storage. If you WvW at all you really should have some equipment templates (because very people run toughness/vitality in PvE) unless you make a few extra characters dedicated for WvW.

! Guardian : power, condi quickness , support (minstrel), hybrid WvW = +2 ; would not do this if you don't have legendary armor+ weapons (axe is used for quickness support , hybrid, condi)! Mesmer: boon chrono (quickness/alacrity), power , condi = +1 ; would not do this if you don't have legendary armor + weapons (sword used on power + boon)! Rev : power (WvW before Feb 25) , condi, alacrity = +1! Ele : power, condi, heal tempest spec = +1 ; for power weaver in WvW just swap trinkets to marauder! Necromancer: power, condi, hybrid cele support (WVW) = +1! Warrior : power, power WvW ... I don't run condi warrior , if cleric support warrior becomes a WvW staple that would be +1 template! Engineer: power, power DPS WvW ... I don't run support scrapper in WvW anymore but this would be an additional +1 purchase if I did ; I don't find condi engineer enjoyable (but if I needed to it has legendary armor)! Thief: power, power staff WvW! Ranger: power (spotter/frost spirit), heal (harrier ; frost spirit/spotter) ... I don't run condi ranger and other than trolling Fridays pre-reset with berserker ranger I don't play ranger often in WvW

Total = 6 added right now , projected additional 2-3For 9 character slots that is 5040-7200 gems (~$63 - $90) ; whereas for 9 equip templates it's 3150-4500 gems (~$39-56) depending on sale

[Vilin.8056]

Comparing templates against character slots costs isn't fair, they functions differently as a whole.

The templates don't just adding up space and convenience, they also powers up the character. Imagine a DPS Soulbeast moving away from battle for a mere 5 seconds then comeback as a full support druid, then swap back as DPS the same manner with a fully buffed squad, this is overpowered like never before.

Thanks to them, classes with powerful support skills (guards, ranger, and even necro) vastly overpower other classes on contents where you can easily move out of combat.

Sure it does feel somewhat overpriced, but on another perspective this is a feature more powerful than legendary equipments.

[Infusion.7149]

@Vilin, unless you mean for WvW, that isn't relevant. Why?Because if you have a dedicated character slot for WvW you will have 3 build templates and 2 equipment templates. In your example you can swap between power ranger and support druid (neither are meta in WvW anyway). A more likely scenario is a swap between:Engi: DPS scrapper and heal scrapper (power holo isn't common even if it is in PVP),Guard: burn guard/power roaming guard (core/DH) and support firebrand,Rev: power herald and condi renegade/condi herald (heal renegade/herald isn't really a thing right now),Necro: power reaper and condi/ cele support scourge,Ele: heal tempest and power staff weaver (condi ele isn't really a thing),Warrior: DPS spellbreaker and cleric shout warrior (power berserker arc divider builds can share the gear with DPS spellbreaker for the most part other than weapon swap),Thief: there's no real common condi thieves except for daggers and pistols due to deadly ambition nerf so it's mainly marauder staff on power (so just weapon swap),Mesmer: much less common after chrono nerf and mirage nerf , only really see core power shatter / core condi PU,Ranger: power (nerfed) , heal (offmeta) ; condi rangers are typically unwanted (especially due to projectile/2 target melee range) so this is unlikely to be a realistic scenario.

In PvP your templates are all locked out once the match starts so the only templates viable for PvP are equipment templates + build storage. Unless you play more than 2 different PvP equipments constantly then equipment templates aren't that attractive, especially since swapping amulet+rune+sigil is much faster than swapping 12+ pieces of gear ( 6 armor, back, 2 rings, amulet, 2 trinkets , weapons , any +5 WvW infusions) for WvW.

[Vilin.8056]

@Infusion.7149 said:@Vilin, unless you mean for WvW, that isn't relevant. Why?Because if you have a dedicated character slot for WvW you will have 3 build templates and 2 equipment templates. In your example you can swap between power ranger and support druid (neither are meta in WvW anyway). A more likely scenario is a swap between:Engi: DPS scrapper and heal scrapper (power holo isn't common even if it is in PVP),Guard: burn guard/power roaming guard (core/DH) and support firebrand,Rev: power herald and condi renegade/condi herald (heal renegade/herald isn't really a thing right now),Necro: power reaper and condi/ cele support scourge,Ele:: heal tempest and power staff weaver (condi ele isn't really a thing),Warrior: DPS spellbreaker and cleric shout warrior (power berserker arc divider builds can share the gear with DPS spellbreaker for the most part other than weapon swap),Thief: there's no real common condi thieves except for daggers and pistols due to deadly ambition nerf so it's mainly marauder staff on power (so just weapon swap),Mesmer: much less common after chrono nerf and mirage nerf , only really see core power shatter / core condi PU,Rangers: power (nerfed) , heal (offmeta) ; condi rangers are typically unwanted (especially due to projectile/2 target melee range) so this is unlikely to be a realistic scenario.

In PvP your templates are all locked out once the match starts so the only templates viable for PvP are equipment templates + build storage. Unless you play more than 2 different PvP equipments constantly then equipment templates aren't that attractive, especially since swapping amulet+rune+sigil is much faster than swapping 12+ pieces of gear ( 6 armor, back, 2 rings, amulet, 2 trinkets , weapons , any +5 WvW infusions) for WvW.

I take these example from open world boss meta, squad based story instance, fractals contents where people would be more commonly engage with an OOC option.

But yes, being able to swap between roaming builds and squad meta in mere seconds is insane in WvW.

[Game of Bones.8975]

For right now I'd say it's simple 'supply and demand.'

It may not be exactly what people were looking for when asking for transferable templates, but it's what we have to work with.

I bought the package of multiple additional templates when they first came out and were on sale, I still a couple left unused.

I use the builds templates much more than equipment templates.

[Trinnitty.8256]

They are overpriced. If it was account wide unlocks I could stomach it. IMO, big blunder by anet that will continue to haunt them until they do something about them.

[WinterSolstice.7829]

I mean for every Build template for a character is another character you don't need to buy/make for builds as a swap convenience.

[Seera.5916]

@WinterSolstice.7829 said:I mean for every Build template for a character is another character you don't need to buy/make for builds as a swap convenience.

Considering that they allow you to store them as chat codes that can be easily stored in say a Notepad document, they're overpriced for the QoL. They should have been much cheaper.

[Kanok.3027]

@"Danikat.8537" said:Probably because players kept asking for templates for years , so someone at Anet thought they'd be willing to pay this much to get them. and said they'd pay for them.

FTFY.

Players tend to forget that they said they'd pay for a feature they were asking for and once it came out, it's "surprised pikachu" face. If people say they're willing to pay for them, and they sell them, then saying it's unfair or that it's all Anet's fault is rather...well, stupid. (inb4 my post gets removed)

[AgentMoore.9453]

@"Kanok.3027" said:Players tend to forget that they said they'd pay for a feature they were asking for and once it came out, it's "surprised pikachu" face.

I don't think anyone forgot they'd be willing to pay, they just didn't expect the price to be this high nor the unlock to be per character.

I always expect convenience items to cost more than less convenient methods, but the acceptable cost threshold was not met for people to be satisfied which is why you saw so much anger at the release and intermittently now as more players discover it. They'll either want an account-wide benefit for a hefty price or a per character benefit for a more accessible price. It also helps if you take into account how badly people wanted a template feature when instead they were given loadouts (and later an undo button instead of a save button).

ArenaNet's a bit like a genie at times. They'll give you what you want, but also not.

[Teratus.2859]

While I am a fan and defender of the gemstore I will say this much.

Never spend your real world money on ANYTHING!! in any MMO that is Character locked.It is a complete waste of your money.Only buy account upgrades that you can use on all your characters, those are far more worth it.

[Fenella.2634]

@Kanok.3027 said:

@"Danikat.8537" said:Probably because players kept asking for templates for years

, so someone at Anet thought they'd be willing to pay this much to get them.

and said they'd pay for them.Players tend to forget that they said they'd pay for a feature they were asking for and once it came out, it's "surprised pikachu" face.Not really. It's absolutely fine that they sell the feature via gemstore, but the way it's done (3x monetization) and the total costs are ridiculous. Maxing out one character of each profession costs several hundred euros / dollars. oO And no, this can't be just solved by gold-> gems, since farming that much gold literally takes years.Plus, even maxed out characters have far less templates than they had with the free, fan-made version.

As far as I am concerned, they should just buy the code from ArcTemplates and sell that to us. I am fine with spending money on the game, but not on our current build "templates". They are certainly not worth this much money. Or the time for goldfarming.

[Tzarakiel.7490]

If every purchased upgrade unlocked a slot for every character on my account every time I would have been willing to pay the current price or even 3 times that. The way the slot unlocks currently work they would have to drop the price to 20% for me to buy any.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Fenella.2634 said:

@Kanok.3027 said:

@"Danikat.8537" said:Probably because players kept asking for templates for years

, so someone at Anet thought they'd be willing to pay this much to get them.

and said they'd pay for them.Players tend to forget that they said they'd pay for a feature they were asking for and once it came out, it's "surprised pikachu" face.Not really. It's absolutely fine that they sell the feature via gemstore, but the way it's done (3x monetization) and the total costs are ridiculous. Maxing out one character of each profession costs several hundred euros / dollars. oO And no, this can't be just solved by gold-> gems, since farming that much gold literally takes years.Plus, even maxed out characters have far less templates than they had with the free, fan-made version.

As far as I am concerned, they should just buy the code from ArcTemplates and sell that to us. I am fine with spending money on the game, but not on our current build "templates". They are certainly not worth this much money. Or the time for goldfarming.

its not ridiculous, you don't pay a sub. Instead of a sub, we want them to put stuff we really want into the shop, so we get really value out of our investment. That's exactly what they have done, perfect. Furthermore You can play GW2 happily without templates for free. Equally you can get them from the shop for free by exchanging gold.

If it makes it easier, spend £10 a month on gems and pretend its a sub then get your templates for free.

£10 a month would give you 35-45 build templates a year btw.

[Fenella.2634]

I was not talking about getting them for free.However, the current price is way too high for a single feature. I am not willing to spend hundreds of euros just for loadouts. Not in one go and not over time.

[kharmin.7683]

@"Trinnitty.8256" said:They are overpriced. If it was account wide unlocks I could stomach it. IMO, big blunder by anet that will continue to haunt them until they do something about them.How will this "continue to haunt them"? If the market can't manage the price point, then Anet would have done something about it by now. It appears more likely that enough players are purchasing slots under the current model to satisfy their pricing goals. If that isn't the case, then they probably would have made some change well before now.

These are not required to play the game and in no way prevent any player from completing content. They weren't included in the original release either, and no one was unable to play or complete content in their absence. They are purely optional, and before someone slams me with ARC, that wasn't in the original release either and players still managed to play and complete content. If the price offered by Anet is too high, then don't buy them.

[gravekeeper.8352]

Agree fully. Some stuff could have their prices significantly toned down. Among them, build templates and 2400+ gems for a set of infinite tools?? O.K.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Fenella.2634 said:I was not talking about getting them for free.However, the current price is way too high for a single feature. I am not willing to spend hundreds of euros just for loadouts. Not in one go and not over time.

, you can look at anything in isolation and say that's too expensive/too cheap. However the monetisation model in GW2 is not just load outs. This is about something in the shop that someone wants and is not prepared to pay for it, that's buyers privilege - Supply and demand will determine the price ultimately. You could equally argue a mount at 2k gems is crazy, or a key at 125 is crazy, or storage expander at 600 is crazy, however within the context of a free to play AAA mmorpg where there is no buy to win its perfectly fine.

Another way to look at it is desirability, a thing that everyone desires will ofc be at a premium (otherwise Anet are commiting commercial suicide right?) , and you would expect the opposite of things that have low demand. Now compare a build template at 300-500 against storage boosters. No-one complains about those prices that have been like that for years.