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so, an almost Grothmar strike wipe gave me an idea how Anet could tune for easy mode Raid


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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:No, the average player will fail mechanics, see that there is no drawback in failing and brute force it.Not only average player. Hardcore players will ignore mechanics as well if possible. It weren't average players that thought up the Gorse no updraft or VG disto/overheal strats.

True. I think though that hardcore players don't need a mode like this to train (or to ignore mechanics) they will go the actual content instead. And ignore the mechanics there.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:like teaching a kid to swim, you do not simply throw him into the ocean and expect him to swim like a fish

The question is if that kid wants to swim or not and if it's expected of them to swim in the ocean later on.A kid that wants to train and become a good swimmer will benefit from that training and then apply the lessons when swimming in the ocean.A kid that is not interested in swimming in the ocean in the first place will forever stay swimming at the pool, holding the edge.

a laughable excuse

the learning experience should be hands on end to end, not you fail and sit out for the rest of 10min doing nothing

As already explained, that's not a learning experience in a video game.

clearly shows someone does not know the history of up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A

go play some legendary NES games

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  • 1 month later...

Oh I see, so make it an auto attack fest and pretend like players are going to care about mechanics. And then reward them with progress to their legendaries. This is a joke right?

Also let's pretend we can't Google a boss to learn the mechanics. And that YouTube doesn't exist on the internet.

You know what even better let's make it even easier, let's make the entire raid soloable so that it's no longer a raid and you don't even have to be afraid to open the LFG tool. That way you can call yourself a solo raider, I mean people will look at you funny being the one person in your raid, but it's the thought that counts right?

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Ok i'm not a fan of raid or strike but how did any party manage to get whip by Grothmar... I understand some party might not have enough dps to get the best result but entire party get wipe just beyond me since his attack is so weak even berserker build can face tank him.

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@Terra.9506 said:Ok i'm not a fan of raid or strike but how did any party manage to get whip by Grothmar... I understand some party might not have enough dps to get the best result but entire party get wipe just beyond me since his attack is so weak even berserker build can face tank him.

Maybe they play without looking at the screen?

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IMO what people would need it a fast way to train any encounter without relying on somebody opening that particular one for them. If there were "boss training" strikes that were basically just instanced raid bosses people MIGHT just be up to learning them. They should be far less rewarding than the real deal and probably be in their entirely own category to normal strikes though.

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@"Blocki.4931" said:IMO what people would need it a fast way to train any encounter without relying on somebody opening that particular one for them. If there were "boss training" strikes that were basically just instanced raid bosses people MIGHT just be up to learning them. They should be far less rewarding than the real deal and probably be in their entirely own category to normal strikes though.

This literally makes no sense to do. "I'm going to do one boss out of the raid so I can do it in the raid."

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@Aridon.8362 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:IMO what people would need it a fast way to train any encounter without relying on somebody opening that particular one for them. If there were "boss training" strikes that were basically just instanced raid bosses people MIGHT just be up to learning them. They should be far less rewarding than the real deal and probably be in their entirely own category to normal strikes though.

This literally makes no sense to do. "I'm going to do one boss out of the raid so I can do it in the raid."

Are you unable to think just one step further? What stops them from learning one encounter after the other? Why shouldn't they be able to learn all easy ones? Should they not be able to learn one of the bosses that come later into a raid? I said it blows having to rely on somebody opening it up for you instead of being able to just open it yourself at any time. Some encounters can be bigger roadblocks than others, in case that wasn't completely obvious to you.

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@borgs.6103 said:The Play How You Want mantra is so ingrained with the playerbase that any slight deviation from it will be met with unwarranted hostility.

First we have to change that culture. We must spread the idea that:

The more gud you git, the faster you can obtain shinies and the more content you can finish in your limited playtime so you can still do fashion wars and roleplay at DR before you get on with your life.

God bless this post. :+1:

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@Blocki.4931 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:IMO what people would need it a fast way to train any encounter without relying on somebody opening that particular one for them. If there were "boss training" strikes that were basically just instanced raid bosses people MIGHT just be up to learning them. They should be far less rewarding than the real deal and probably be in their entirely own category to normal strikes though.

This literally makes no sense to do. "I'm going to do one boss out of the raid so I can do it in the raid."

Are you unable to think just one step further? What stops them from learning one encounter after the other? Why shouldn't they be able to learn all easy ones? Should they not be able to learn one of the bosses that come later into a raid? I said it blows having to rely on somebody opening it up for you instead of being able to just open it yourself at any time. Some encounters can be bigger roadblocks than others, in case that wasn't completely obvious to you.

I don't need to think further, you're literally saying to experience the wings in chunks which is retsrded when you can just go do the actual wings. Nothing is stopping them from learning other than negative mental attitude. What's easy is subjective. Also, no that defeats the purpose of a raid existing. A raid is not a strike.

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sorry, but I have to disagree Mr EU #388, the need Anet for creating Strike has proven that the current raid is unable to cater even the 50% of player base, open your eyes and look at the reality

i dont want to offend the lower-skilled end of the players, but you be very surprised how ......... they can be, i once spent close to an hour guiding a guildie how to mount-glide-drop for a shortcut to a JP, and he still could not do it, while for me it was super easy to do even when i was trying to figure out the shortcut

like teaching a kid to swim, you do not simply throw him into the ocean and expect him to swim like a fishno, you start off in the pool, in the shallow end where they hold onto the ledge of the pool and learn how to kick to generate forward momentum, dip head into the water and turn head to sides every 3 sec to learn how to draw breaths. once he mastered kicks and drawing breaths, the ledge is let go and start swimming in the lane.once he had mastered the swimming techniques and stamina, then he can challenge the ocean where ocean currents places more pressure on what he had learnt.

the current normal mode learning method is you fail you die, then you just sit out til everyone else dies, or they just carries youif you die in phase 1, you do not even get to have any practice on phase 2 because you are dead, you just sit out and watchwatching people doing mechanics and do the mechanics in person are two totally different experiences.

the learning experience should be hands on end to end, not you fail and sit out for the rest of 10min doing nothing

less you can put yourself in their shoes, your experiences and expectations are very different from the vast majority of the player base

in life, you can certainly teach things to your kids, but only qualified teachers are allowed to teach in schools because teachers had been trained to understand the psychology and behaviours of kids, and be able to sympathise with them

How about the player stop being afraid of failure in a video game? It's not like your life is on the line. Simply join a training group and take a shot. It's just that simple.

I promise you that your body, your arms and legs are going to be in one piece. Your character will magically reappear too.

Also this isn't comparable to learning swimming, it's more comparable to learning Calculus as a 12 year old. Literally I can teach the entirety of calculus to a 12 year old if they simply understand that the slope on a graph is rise over run.

Just the same it's that easy to learn how to do something like Vale Guardian. Have ranged stand on spawning green circles, have power DPS target blue and green, CC when blue bar appears, have condi DPS target red. At phase 1 DPS boss, tank face boss away from group, phase two split condi DPS go to red side, rest stack on blue side, and kill blue and green together. Go back and repeat phase 1 and 2 one more time, at phase 3 have ranged keep going to green, when blue break bar appears cc boss. Move to the next platform that doesn't have the colored poop on the ground and repeat until boss dies. The end.

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sorry, but I have to disagree Mr EU #388, the need Anet for creating Strike has proven that the current raid is unable to cater even the 50% of player base, open your eyes and look at the reality

i dont want to offend the lower-skilled end of the players, but you be very surprised how ......... they can be, i once spent close to an hour guiding a guildie how to mount-glide-drop for a shortcut to a JP, and he still could not do it, while for me it was super easy to do even when i was trying to figure out the shortcut

like teaching a kid to swim, you do not simply throw him into the ocean and expect him to swim like a fishno, you start off in the pool, in the shallow end where they hold onto the ledge of the pool and learn how to kick to generate forward momentum, dip head into the water and turn head to sides every 3 sec to learn how to draw breaths. once he mastered kicks and drawing breaths, the ledge is let go and start swimming in the lane.once he had mastered the swimming techniques and stamina, then he can challenge the ocean where ocean currents places more pressure on what he had learnt.

the current normal mode learning method is you fail you die, then you just sit out til everyone else dies, or they just carries youif you die in phase 1, you do not even get to have any practice on phase 2 because you are dead, you just sit out and watchwatching people doing mechanics and do the mechanics in person are two totally different experiences.

the learning experience should be hands on end to end, not you fail and sit out for the rest of 10min doing nothing

less you can put yourself in their shoes, your experiences and expectations are very different from the vast majority of the player base

in life, you can certainly teach things to your kids, but only qualified teachers are allowed to teach in schools because teachers had been trained to understand the psychology and behaviours of kids, and be able to sympathise with them

How about the player stop being afraid of failure in a video game? It's not like your livelihood is on the line. Simply join a training group and take a shot. It's just that simple.

You don't get it, the majority of casual platers are not interested in being 'trained'In the current style of raids.

Just like raiders who want tuned content, casuals want 10 man content they csn enjoy wit lh the builds they enjoy, its not about challenge. It's about enjoying 10 man pve content.

Simply put

There is 10 man tuned content that satisfies the need of the minority.

There is no 10 man content with relaxed tuning that satisfies the need of the majority,

Relaxed tuning mean:

any combination of builds work. Players play what they enjoy.

Enough mechanics that the fight is interesting, but won't cause regular wipes for new players.

The goal for the raid is offering a 10 man pve environment, not top end challenge for pve - that's what tuned raids are for.

Aka easy mode and hard mode.

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sorry, but I have to disagree Mr EU #388, the need Anet for creating Strike has proven that the current raid is unable to cater even the 50% of player base, open your eyes and look at the reality

i dont want to offend the lower-skilled end of the players, but you be very surprised how ......... they can be, i once spent close to an hour guiding a guildie how to mount-glide-drop for a shortcut to a JP, and he still could not do it, while for me it was super easy to do even when i was trying to figure out the shortcut

like teaching a kid to swim, you do not simply throw him into the ocean and expect him to swim like a fishno, you start off in the pool, in the shallow end where they hold onto the ledge of the pool and learn how to kick to generate forward momentum, dip head into the water and turn head to sides every 3 sec to learn how to draw breaths. once he mastered kicks and drawing breaths, the ledge is let go and start swimming in the lane.once he had mastered the swimming techniques and stamina, then he can challenge the ocean where ocean currents places more pressure on what he had learnt.

the current normal mode learning method is you fail you die, then you just sit out til everyone else dies, or they just carries youif you die in phase 1, you do not even get to have any practice on phase 2 because you are dead, you just sit out and watchwatching people doing mechanics and do the mechanics in person are two totally different experiences.

the learning experience should be hands on end to end, not you fail and sit out for the rest of 10min doing nothing

less you can put yourself in their shoes, your experiences and expectations are very different from the vast majority of the player base

in life, you can certainly teach things to your kids, but only qualified teachers are allowed to teach in schools because teachers had been trained to understand the psychology and behaviours of kids, and be able to sympathise with them

How about the player stop being afraid of failure in a video game? It's not like your livelihood is on the line. Simply join a training group and take a shot. It's just that simple.

You don't get it, the majority of casual platers are not interested in being 'trained'In the current style of raids.

Just like raiders who want tuned content, casuals want 10 man content they csn enjoy wit lh the builds they enjoy, its not about challenge. It's about enjoying 10 man pve content.

Simply put

There is 10 man tuned content that satisfies the need of the minority.

There is no 10 man content with relaxed tuning that satisfies the need of the majority,

Relaxed tuning mean:

any combination of builds work. Players play what they enjoy.

Enough mechanics that the fight is interesting, but won't cause regular wipes for new players.

The goal for the raid is offering a 10 man pve environment, not top end challenge for pve - that's what tuned raids are for.

I'm going to crack your definition of relaxed tuning with logic.

All raiders want their classes to work. Guardians especially have an underlying wish to one day be tanks. This isn't exclusive to difficulty, the reality is we actually don't need meta builds to be successful there are other combinations we can use to defeat bosses in raids that work perfectly fine apart from snowcrows builds. But leaders, moreover leaders of guilds prefer you to be optimal enough so that you canbeat the timer with ease and not cause problems for anyone. You can literally make your own group comp right now to have a full minstrels guardian, a soulbeast a bunch of dps and you doing all the healing. And you have a likelier chance of doing this with something called friends.

There's no way you can make a fight interesting that doesn't cause wipes for new players. If I put in boss mechanics that did minimal damage to you where you can just stand up and come back to kill everything, and you have no risk of dying, it doesn't make the fight interesting, it makes it mundane.

Your definition of the goal of raiding is wrong because it's too loose of a definition. You forgot to include coordinate as an elite group of skilled individuald and act as the special forces of Tyria. Key word special forces. Even in the real world only a select few can hold such a title.

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Put it this way almost every big pve game out there has easy mode/hard modes:

Big mmorpg. E. G wow, esoBig single player first perspective rpg like the Witcher, skyrimBig RPG like pillars of eternityCorg/rogue like, Diablo 3Strategy, civ xGuild was 2 fractals.

It goes on and on. GW2 is not offering 10 man relaxed tuning pve instanced content to casuals that they want to play, in fact with the poor support for dungeons and fractals, there's little fresh instanced content for casuals at all now in this game.

The facts speak for themselves. 90+% players are not interested in raid content in its current format as a result.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Put it this way almost every big pve game out there has easy mode/hard modes:

Big mmorpg. E. G wow, esoBig single player first perspective rpg like the Witcher, skyrimBig RPG like pillars of eternityCorg/rogue like, Diablo 3Strategy, civ xGuild was 2 fractals.

It goes on and on. GW2 is not offering 10 man relaxed tuning pve instanced content to casuals that they want to play, in fact with the poor support for dungeons and fractals, there's little fresh instanced content for casuals at all now in this game.

Ok I hope ANET adds said easy mode. And then people realize that there's nothing interesting about killing a boss in easy mode, and how boring it is to do so.

I don't get it people think that there's some kind of treasure at the end of something like in WoW. In WoW people do LFR for gear, believe it or not. In GW2, raiders get a paper clip and some lint for saving the planet.

Raiding in GW2 is really not meant for casual players. Trust me on that note. Things will in fact stay the same as they are now because players will find raids boring. I think this is the reason they made raiding as unrewarding as it is, to keep the loot-seeking gold farming casual out.

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@Aridon.8362 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Put it this way almost every big pve game out there has easy mode/hard modes:

Big mmorpg. E. G wow, esoBig single player first perspective rpg like the Witcher, skyrimBig RPG like pillars of eternityCorg/rogue like, Diablo 3Strategy, civ xGuild was 2 fractals.

It goes on and on. GW2 is not offering 10 man relaxed tuning pve instanced content to casuals that they want to play, in fact with the poor support for dungeons and fractals, there's little fresh instanced content for casuals at all now in this game.

Ok I hope ANET adds said easy mode. And then people realize that there's nothing interesting about killing a boss in easy mode, and how boring it is to do so.

I don't get it people think that there's some kind of treasure at the end of something like in WoW. In WoW people do LFR for gear, believe it or not. In GW2, raiders get a paper clip and some lint for saving the planet.

Raiding in GW2 is really not meant for casual players. Trust me on that note. Things will in fact stay the same as they are now because players will find raids boring.

forget the word raid, thats a different style of game, that's the point. where is the 10 man instanced content for casual players who don't give a shot about being a top dog or getting gear, but simply want instanced content to enjoy with a group of people that offers a different way of earning currency. Just like fractals easy mode.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Put it this way almost every big pve game out there has easy mode/hard modes:

Big mmorpg. E. G wow, esoBig single player first perspective rpg like the Witcher, skyrimBig RPG like pillars of eternityCorg/rogue like, Diablo 3Strategy, civ xGuild was 2 fractals.

It goes on and on. GW2 is not offering 10 man relaxed tuning pve instanced content to casuals that they want to play, in fact with the poor support for dungeons and fractals, there's little fresh instanced content for casuals at all now in this game.

Ok I hope ANET adds said easy mode. And then people realize that there's nothing interesting about killing a boss in easy mode, and how boring it is to do so.

I don't get it people think that there's some kind of treasure at the end of something like in WoW. In WoW people do LFR for gear, believe it or not. In GW2, raiders get a paper clip and some lint for saving the planet.

Raiding in GW2 is really not meant for casual players. Trust me on that note. Things will in fact stay the same as they are now because players will find raids boring.

forget the word raid, thats a different style of game, that's the point. where is the 10 man instanced content for casual players who don't give a shot about being a top dog or getting gear, but simply want instanced content to enjoy with a group of people that offers a different way of earning currency. Just like fractals easy mode.

I don't know, but raids certainly isn't the answer! Maybe try WvW, it's instanced and you can form squads of 10 people, and do casual pve.

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@Aridon.8362 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Put it this way almost every big pve game out there has easy mode/hard modes:

Big mmorpg. E. G wow, esoBig single player first perspective rpg like the Witcher, skyrimBig RPG like pillars of eternityCorg/rogue like, Diablo 3Strategy, civ xGuild was 2 fractals.

It goes on and on. GW2 is not offering 10 man relaxed tuning pve instanced content to casuals that they want to play, in fact with the poor support for dungeons and fractals, there's little fresh instanced content for casuals at all now in this game.

Ok I hope ANET adds said easy mode. And then people realize that there's nothing interesting about killing a boss in easy mode, and how boring it is to do so.

I don't get it people think that there's some kind of treasure at the end of something like in WoW. In WoW people do LFR for gear, believe it or not. In GW2, raiders get a paper clip and some lint for saving the planet.

Raiding in GW2 is really not meant for casual players. Trust me on that note. Things will in fact stay the same as they are now because players will find raids boring.

forget the word raid, thats a different style of game, that's the point. where is the 10 man instanced content for casual players who don't give a shot about being a top dog or getting gear, but simply want instanced content to enjoy with a group of people that offers a different way of earning currency. Just like fractals easy mode.

I don't know, but raids certainly isn't the answer! Maybe try WvW, it's instanced and you can form squads of 10 people, and do casual pve.

And this kind of attitude gives raiders a bad name.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Put it this way almost every big pve game out there has easy mode/hard modes:

Big mmorpg. E. G wow, esoBig single player first perspective rpg like the Witcher, skyrimBig RPG like pillars of eternityCorg/rogue like, Diablo 3Strategy, civ xGuild was 2 fractals.

It goes on and on. GW2 is not offering 10 man relaxed tuning pve instanced content to casuals that they want to play, in fact with the poor support for dungeons and fractals, there's little fresh instanced content for casuals at all now in this game.

Ok I hope ANET adds said easy mode. And then people realize that there's nothing interesting about killing a boss in easy mode, and how boring it is to do so.

I don't get it people think that there's some kind of treasure at the end of something like in WoW. In WoW people do LFR for gear, believe it or not. In GW2, raiders get a paper clip and some lint for saving the planet.

Raiding in GW2 is really not meant for casual players. Trust me on that note. Things will in fact stay the same as they are now because players will find raids boring.

forget the word raid, thats a different style of game, that's the point. where is the 10 man instanced content for casual players who don't give a shot about being a top dog or getting gear, but simply want instanced content to enjoy with a group of people that offers a different way of earning currency. Just like fractals easy mode.

I don't know, but raids certainly isn't the answer! Maybe try WvW, it's instanced and you can form squads of 10 people, and do casual pve.

And this kind of attitude gives raiders a bad name.

Your fear of trying challenges gives you an even worse look as a human being.

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@Aridon.8362 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Put it this way almost every big pve game out there has easy mode/hard modes:

Big mmorpg. E. G wow, esoBig single player first perspective rpg like the Witcher, skyrimBig RPG like pillars of eternityCorg/rogue like, Diablo 3Strategy, civ xGuild was 2 fractals.

It goes on and on. GW2 is not offering 10 man relaxed tuning pve instanced content to casuals that they want to play, in fact with the poor support for dungeons and fractals, there's little fresh instanced content for casuals at all now in this game.

Ok I hope ANET adds said easy mode. And then people realize that there's nothing interesting about killing a boss in easy mode, and how boring it is to do so.

I don't get it people think that there's some kind of treasure at the end of something like in WoW. In WoW people do LFR for gear, believe it or not. In GW2, raiders get a paper clip and some lint for saving the planet.

Raiding in GW2 is really not meant for casual players. Trust me on that note. Things will in fact stay the same as they are now because players will find raids boring.

forget the word raid, thats a different style of game, that's the point. where is the 10 man instanced content for casual players who don't give a shot about being a top dog or getting gear, but simply want instanced content to enjoy with a group of people that offers a different way of earning currency. Just like fractals easy mode.

I don't know, but raids certainly isn't the answer! Maybe try WvW, it's instanced and you can form squads of 10 people, and do casual pve.

And this kind of attitude gives raiders a bad name.

Your fear of trying challenges gives you an even worse look as a human being.

god can you hear yourself. gaming is not just about challenges. your argument is bordering on the elitist 'learn to play', that's not the point. no-one is trying to take away your raids, relaaaaax.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Put it this way almost every big pve game out there has easy mode/hard modes:

Big mmorpg. E. G wow, esoBig single player first perspective rpg like the Witcher, skyrimBig RPG like pillars of eternityCorg/rogue like, Diablo 3Strategy, civ xGuild was 2 fractals.

It goes on and on. GW2 is not offering 10 man relaxed tuning pve instanced content to casuals that they want to play, in fact with the poor support for dungeons and fractals, there's little fresh instanced content for casuals at all now in this game.

Ok I hope ANET adds said easy mode. And then people realize that there's nothing interesting about killing a boss in easy mode, and how boring it is to do so.

I don't get it people think that there's some kind of treasure at the end of something like in WoW. In WoW people do LFR for gear, believe it or not. In GW2, raiders get a paper clip and some lint for saving the planet.

Raiding in GW2 is really not meant for casual players. Trust me on that note. Things will in fact stay the same as they are now because players will find raids boring.

forget the word raid, thats a different style of game, that's the point. where is the 10 man instanced content for casual players who don't give a shot about being a top dog or getting gear, but simply want instanced content to enjoy with a group of people that offers a different way of earning currency. Just like fractals easy mode.

I don't know, but raids certainly isn't the answer! Maybe try WvW, it's instanced and you can form squads of 10 people, and do casual pve.

And this kind of attitude gives raiders a bad name.

Your fear of trying challenges gives you an even worse look as a human being.

god can you hear yourself. gaming is not just about challenges. your argument is bordering on the elitist 'learn to play', that's not the point. no-one is trying to take away your raids, relaaaaax.

I know that, which is why I said ANET should give you what you want. And then you'll realize how dumb your request is. And my argument is not elitist at all. If you truly understood the game you wouldn't say that at all.

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@Aridon.8362 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Put it this way almost every big pve game out there has easy mode/hard modes:

Big mmorpg. E. G wow, esoBig single player first perspective rpg like the Witcher, skyrimBig RPG like pillars of eternityCorg/rogue like, Diablo 3Strategy, civ xGuild was 2 fractals.

It goes on and on. GW2 is not offering 10 man relaxed tuning pve instanced content to casuals that they want to play, in fact with the poor support for dungeons and fractals, there's little fresh instanced content for casuals at all now in this game.

Ok I hope ANET adds said easy mode. And then people realize that there's nothing interesting about killing a boss in easy mode, and how boring it is to do so.

I don't get it people think that there's some kind of treasure at the end of something like in WoW. In WoW people do LFR for gear, believe it or not. In GW2, raiders get a paper clip and some lint for saving the planet.

Raiding in GW2 is really not meant for casual players. Trust me on that note. Things will in fact stay the same as they are now because players will find raids boring.

forget the word raid, thats a different style of game, that's the point. where is the 10 man instanced content for casual players who don't give a shot about being a top dog or getting gear, but simply want instanced content to enjoy with a group of people that offers a different way of earning currency. Just like fractals easy mode.

I don't know, but raids certainly isn't the answer! Maybe try WvW, it's instanced and you can form squads of 10 people, and do casual pve.

And this kind of attitude gives raiders a bad name.

Your fear of trying challenges gives you an even worse look as a human being.

god can you hear yourself. gaming is not just about challenges. your argument is bordering on the elitist 'learn to play', that's not the point. no-one is trying to take away your raids, relaaaaax.

I know that, which is why I said ANET should give you what you want. And then you'll realize how dumb your request is.

your attitude is one of the reasons casual players don't like tuned content. I don't think raiders are dumb because they like tuned content, but you think casual players that want easy mode are (despite the overwhelming statistics on gaming at large) You think raiders have a corner on intelligence and critical thinking do you? Anyway 'learn to play' chat indicates your mindset, have a good day.

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@"vesica tempestas.1563" said:i will leave this thought with you. many of those 'stupid casuals' as you so arrogantly called it, have in fact raided in the past, and are actually game players just like you.

And by 'stupid casuals' you mean including you right? I seriously doubt you've beaten a boss at all. Especially with that "positive" attitude of yours.

Also just as an FYI, raiding actually has two modes. There is in fact a normal mode and a challenge mode. And they differ greatly!

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