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Buff DH traps


Xervite.5493

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I agree with the comment above. Stealth is fine for the most part. I've been wrecked by my fair share of thieves, but i've also wrecked my fair share of thieves.

You just need to learn how to challenge their weaknesses. I recommend playing as a thief to get a better understanding of how to fight against them. Its what I did to learnYou can't just mash your way to victory, its all about timing

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@"crazyhusky.2985" said:Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foesPersonally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

There is no class that relies on Stealth as a defensive tool.Stealth is used to cowardly run away in PvP, which is not an defensive action.Thieves have enough evasive tools to form their active defense, Mesmers have enough tools and their clones to annoy opponents and divert their attacks.Scrapper is tanky enough not to need any more defences.Adjusting something to make it proper instead of unfair and over-performing doesn't require compensations.

As for the Aegis part: It block one attack,
one
. That's far from permanent.

I didn't say class, did I? What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth? Or just...oriented around stealth. Your suggestion would require a rework to Shadow Arts at the very least - what do you propose is buffed/changed in Shadow Arts in order to compensate for your suggestion?

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@"crazyhusky.2985" said:Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foesPersonally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

Why?

@"crazyhusky.2985" said:Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foesPersonally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

So, you want that changed because it means you can't start a fight from stealth, it means you have to actually hit someone and be revealed before doing a burst, this is something high burst builds have always complained about. It is also not permanent, it is tied to F3's CD and is only applied every 40 seconds if F3 isn't on CD.

Why should Guardian's receive special treatment regarding this then? The fact that it is only applied every 40s has no bearing considering it is permanent until removed. It's not a skillful block or counter that you are actively using.

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@Turk.5460 said:

@"crazyhusky.2985" said:Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foesPersonally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

There is no class that relies on Stealth as a defensive tool.Stealth is used to cowardly run away in PvP, which is not an defensive action.Thieves have enough evasive tools to form their active defense, Mesmers have enough tools and their clones to annoy opponents and divert their attacks.Scrapper is tanky enough not to need any more defences.Adjusting something to make it proper instead of unfair and over-performing doesn't require compensations.

As for the Aegis part: It block one attack,
one
. That's far from permanent.

I didn't say class, did I? What buffs do you propose to compensate
traitlines
whose defenses are reliant on stealth? Or just...oriented around stealth. Your suggestion would require a rework to Shadow Arts at the very least - what do you propose is buffed/changed in Shadow Arts in order to compensate for your suggestion?

@"crazyhusky.2985" said:Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foesPersonally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

Why?

@"crazyhusky.2985" said:Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foesPersonally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

So, you want that changed because it means you can't start a fight from stealth, it means you have to actually hit someone and be revealed before doing a burst, this is something high burst builds have always complained about. It is also not permanent, it is tied to F3's CD and is only applied every 40 seconds if F3 isn't on CD.

Why should Guardian's receive special treatment regarding this then? The fact that it is only applied every 40s has no bearing considering it is permanent until removed. It's not a skillful block or counter that you are actively using.

It's a single block, if you are having issues with that, it might be a L2P issue. Fact is it's because guard has a low base HP and spiking one from stealth without it is easy, there really is very little reason to complain about this, guard sustain is block based, it's why guard has one of the lowest base HP in the game and thats for a heavy class.

However, go ahead, remove it. At the same time we can remove the ability to attack from stealth, because why should you get a free burst off? "Thats not skillful".

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@Turk.5460 said:

@"crazyhusky.2985" said:Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foesPersonally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

There is no class that relies on Stealth as a defensive tool.Stealth is used to cowardly run away in PvP, which is not an defensive action.Thieves have enough evasive tools to form their active defense, Mesmers have enough tools and their clones to annoy opponents and divert their attacks.Scrapper is tanky enough not to need any more defences.Adjusting something to make it proper instead of unfair and over-performing doesn't require compensations.

As for the Aegis part: It block one attack,
one
. That's far from permanent.

I didn't say class, did I? What buffs do you propose to compensate
traitlines
whose defenses are reliant on stealth? Or just...oriented around stealth. Your suggestion would require a rework to Shadow Arts at the very least - what do you propose is buffed/changed in Shadow Arts in order to compensate for your suggestion?

@"crazyhusky.2985" said:Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foesPersonally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

Why?

@"crazyhusky.2985" said:Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foesPersonally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

So, you want that changed because it means you can't start a fight from stealth, it means you have to actually hit someone and be revealed before doing a burst, this is something high burst builds have always complained about. It is also not permanent, it is tied to F3's CD and is only applied every 40 seconds if F3 isn't on CD.

Why should Guardian's receive special treatment regarding this then? The fact that it is only applied every 40s has no bearing considering it is permanent until removed. It's not a skillful block or counter that you are actively using.

Its 1 block every 40 seconds, Its nothing now a days, Thieves, Rangers and Mirages can normally burst them down quite quickly due to the low HP pool.at launch you had aegis builds but due to the expansions, patches the nerf to aegis, it is pointless now.Most classes now have a form of Unblockable which go through aegis and don't trigger any of guardian's traits.There are many more things that hit multiple times basically blocking only the first hit.Once that aegis is gone there is no much in the way.

"Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks"Because theives would just be over powered without any way to counter them properly. Why roam on any other class when you can be a perma shealthed thief getting the drop on people that have no way block or defend against it. WvW would be littered with thieves more so than it is now. being shealthed attacked every 5 mins because no-one has a decent way to defend against it. Being able to 1-shot people isn't healthy for a competitive mode, because people will just use the cheese builds that instantly kill people because they have little to no counter play. Would you rather have this protection on Warriors or Ranger both of which have higher HPs pools and Invuns through traits and signets/stance. Also rangers can reveal you giving themselves a boost to their attack with their 1500 range bows. Spellbreaker also having reveals too.

Guardian's sustain is mostly block based with the nerf to many block related things over the years, I don't feel it like it should have low tier HP pool anymore.To Be honest I think guardian should have mid tier HP, but due to how support heavy is Firebrand, if you pick that elite, it bumps your HP back to low tier.

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@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@"crazyhusky.2985" said:Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foesPersonally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

There is no class that relies on Stealth as a defensive tool.Stealth is used to cowardly run away in PvP, which is not an defensive action.Thieves have enough evasive tools to form their active defense, Mesmers have enough tools and their clones to annoy opponents and divert their attacks.Scrapper is tanky enough not to need any more defences.Adjusting something to make it proper instead of unfair and over-performing doesn't require compensations.

As for the Aegis part: It block one attack,
one
. That's far from permanent.

I didn't say class, did I? What buffs do you propose to compensate
traitlines
whose defenses are reliant on stealth? Or just...oriented around stealth. Your suggestion would require a rework to Shadow Arts at the very least - what do you propose is buffed/changed in Shadow Arts in order to compensate for your suggestion?

@"crazyhusky.2985" said:Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foesPersonally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

Why?

@"crazyhusky.2985" said:Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foesPersonally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

So, you want that changed because it means you can't start a fight from stealth, it means you have to actually hit someone and be revealed before doing a burst, this is something high burst builds have always complained about. It is also not permanent, it is tied to F3's CD and is only applied every 40 seconds if F3 isn't on CD.

Why should Guardian's receive special treatment regarding this then? The fact that it is only applied every 40s has no bearing considering it is permanent until removed. It's not a skillful block or counter that you are actively using.

It's a single block, if you are having issues with that, it might be a L2P issue. Fact is it's because guard has a low base HP and spiking one from stealth without it is easy, there really is very little reason to complain about this, guard sustain is block based, it's why guard has one of the lowest base HP in the game and thats for a heavy class.

However, go ahead, remove it. At the same time we can remove the ability to attack from stealth, because why should you get a free burst off? "Thats not skillful".

If you are having issues with reacting to burst attacks from stealth that have been in the game since beta, it might be a L2P issue. Guard has the same hp pool as Thieves and Eles, yet they do not have a passive permanent-until-removed aegis or anything similar. However, go ahead and remove the ability to attack from stealth. That or revealing upon activation would be fine, at least it wouldn't hinder my personal success.

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