Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Burning is abusive


anjo.6143

Recommended Posts

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"pninak.1069" said:I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.

this alone is about 9k burn dmg.1 skill. dunno how the rest works but the fact that 1 ability can whack people for over half HP, with no cast time on low cooldown AOE pulsing...oh and a passive that does the same every 10s. :D

How are you getting 9k?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 144
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@"pninak.1069" said:I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.I don't know man.

3vUygH1.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Aktium.9506 said:

@"pninak.1069" said:I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.I don't know man.

3vUygH1.png

I always fine pictures like this interesting. From my understanding the death breakdown doesn't show damage from when you are downed.

This means before you finally died you managed to survive 180k damage from burning. Does that really sound super effective ? You'll never see power damage numbers in the death log this high due to the nature of the damage type, being instant.

I'd be more interested if this had much lower amount of burning but you still died which means you really got bursted.

My other issue with the death breakdown is all you know is burning is what killed you but it doesn't break down top skills that applied the burning.

It's very misleading.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:This means before you finally died you managed to survive 180k damage from burning. Does that really sound super effective ? You'll never see power damage numbers in the death log this high due to the nature of the damage type, being instant.

I'd be more interested if this had much lower amount of burning but you still died which means you really got bursted.

My other issue with the death breakdown is all you know is burning is what killed you but it doesn't break down top skills that applied the burning.

It's very misleading.Well, a Burn Guard "burst" is maybe tops 4-5k burning ticks with 1.5-3k sustained burn ticks. To most classes just say a 1.7k constant condi tick probably constitutes a burst because they don't have all that Necro HP to soak it with. As a condition burning definitely does need a nerf.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Sigmoid.7082 they could make a hit log on the side like they did with gw1. then you know what you died to. they also should count in the attributes of the players. but in gw1 you can also take a ton more dmg you have health, that's because the log documents everything til the end of the fight. so you can get heals during the fight and be back at full health and you still gonna see the skills used on you prior. so it can be common during long fights in gw1 to have 15-40 stacks of the same skill on you before you die. even if the skill got a 8 sec cd. maybe my nostaliga is a bit misleading me a bit, but I know it is somewhere in this area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@"pninak.1069" said:I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.

this alone is about 9k burn dmg.1 skill. dunno how the rest works but the fact that 1 ability can whack people for over half HP, with no cast time on low cooldown AOE pulsing...oh and a passive that does the same every 10s. :D

How are you getting 9k?

mesmers torch burns for 3,5k. 1 stack for 9s.zealots does 4 stacks for 2s, so that equales 1 stack for 8s.on top of flip skill 3stacks for 3s = 1 stack for 9s, that already equals 17s burn if it was 1 stack. quick math thats 6,7k burn.add in power dmg, and radiant fire bonus burn duration and here ya go. about 9k, depending on the rune it could be much more, on mesmer im using hybrid.with balthazar I could see it being about 11-12k dmg over all if everything lands.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Aktium.9506 said:

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:This means before you finally died you managed to survive 180k damage from burning. Does that really sound super effective ? You'll never see power damage numbers in the death log this high due to the nature of the damage type, being instant.

I'd be more interested if this had much lower amount of burning but you still died which means you really got bursted.

My other issue with the death breakdown is all you know is burning is what killed you but it doesn't break down top skills that applied the burning.

It's very misleading.Well, a Burn Guard "burst" is maybe tops 4-5k burning ticks with 1.5-3k sustained burn ticks. To most classes just say a 1.7k constant condi tick probably constitutes a burst because they don't have all that Necro HP to soak it with. As a condition burning definitely does need a nerf.

No burning class get used for Top tournaments or wvw zergs or pve end game...in all three of them..necromancer reign supreme and the devs noticed it, do you really think that forum "feedback" is all the devs use to balance the game?Tomorrow @Cmc will talk about pvp/wvw...it'll be fun to see him talking about scourge zergs in wvw or double core necro in pvp or reapers for pve end game

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Aktium.9506 said:

@"pninak.1069" said:I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.I don't know man.

3vUygH1.png

the only thing we can get from this screenshot is that each tick on average did 3400.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"pninak.1069" said:I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.

this alone is about 9k burn dmg.1 skill. dunno how the rest works but the fact that 1 ability can whack people for over half HP, with no cast time on low cooldown AOE pulsing...oh and a passive that does the same every 10s. :D

How are you getting 9k?

mesmers torch burns for 3,5k. 1 stack for 9s.zealots does 4 stacks for 2s, so that equales 1 stack for 8s.on top of flip skill 3stacks for 3s = 1 stack for 9s, that already equals 17s burn if it was 1 stack. quick math thats 6,7k burn.add in power dmg, and radiant fire bonus burn duration and here ya go. about 9k, depending on the rune it could be much more, on mesmer im using hybrid.with balthazar I could see it being about 11-12k dmg over all if everything lands.

Ok but you're comparing a pure damage skill / weapon to one that does other effects and it more utility( blind, stealth). Not only that but you would have to stand near on directly on top of someone for 3s as well as making sure to hit the flip skill shot, which removes the passive effect.

I get what you're doing but something can look strong on paper but in practical application be nowhere near as powerful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pretty much yeah. they definently should rework these logs. I don't use them myself, because I find them less useful than the ones in gw1. in gw1 I use them mostly to see which builds the opponents are using and switch skills appropriately. but that isn't really possible

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@"pninak.1069" said:I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.

this alone is about 9k burn dmg.1 skill. dunno how the rest works but the fact that 1 ability can whack people for over half HP, with no cast time on low cooldown AOE pulsing...oh and a passive that does the same every 10s. :D

How are you getting 9k?

mesmers torch burns for 3,5k. 1 stack for 9s.zealots does 4 stacks for 2s, so that equales 1 stack for 8s.on top of flip skill 3stacks for 3s = 1 stack for 9s, that already equals 17s burn if it was 1 stack. quick math thats 6,7k burn.add in power dmg, and radiant fire bonus burn duration and here ya go. about 9k, depending on the rune it could be much more, on mesmer im using hybrid.with balthazar I could see it being about 11-12k dmg over all if everything lands.

Ok but you're comparing a pure damage skill / weapon to one that does other effects and it more utility( blind, stealth). Not only that but you would have to stand near on directly on top of someone for 3s as well as making sure to hit the flip skill shot, which removes the passive effect.

I get what you're doing but something can look strong on paper but in practical application be nowhere near as powerful.

and then torch 4 can be easy dodged, its 1 hit not 4 spread over, you dont have to dodge it 4 times to negate the damage, expecially since you have 3s heads up, and 2x the cooldown. its all a trade off.look at it from a different angle, if you miss half the hits you still deal more dmg then any mesmer torch skill, on half the cooldown and with questionable cast time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"pninak.1069" said:I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.I don't know man.

3vUygH1.png

the only thing we can get from this screenshot is that each tick on average did 3400.

Only thing I have notice is that dmg requires over 12 stacks of burning and knowing how the burn guard and how the typical necro player think...I'd say @Aktium.9506 was taking a nap inside purging flame, never tried to dodge/interrupt/blind spear of justice and generally just facetanking everything on his core necro build having lost the urge to actually dodge something...necro players are not used to dodging, at least a good 80% of them.

Nobody in this game can take that much burning dmg unless they're facetanking everything without dodging anything ...this draws a clear picture of the skill level involved

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"pninak.1069" said:I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.

this alone is about 9k burn dmg.1 skill. dunno how the rest works but the fact that 1 ability can whack people for over half HP, with no cast time on low cooldown AOE pulsing...oh and a passive that does the same every 10s. :D

How are you getting 9k?

mesmers torch burns for 3,5k. 1 stack for 9s.zealots does 4 stacks for 2s, so that equales 1 stack for 8s.on top of flip skill 3stacks for 3s = 1 stack for 9s, that already equals 17s burn if it was 1 stack. quick math thats 6,7k burn.add in power dmg, and radiant fire bonus burn duration and here ya go. about 9k, depending on the rune it could be much more, on mesmer im using hybrid.with balthazar I could see it being about 11-12k dmg over all if everything lands.

Ok but you're comparing a pure damage skill / weapon to one that does other effects and it more utility( blind, stealth). Not only that but you would have to stand near on directly on top of someone for 3s as well as making sure to hit the flip skill shot, which removes the passive effect.

I get what you're doing but something can look strong on paper but in practical application be nowhere near as powerful.

and then torch 4 can be easy dodged, its 1 hit not 4 spread over, you dont have to dodge it 4 times to negate the damage, expecially since you have 3s heads up, and 2x the cooldown. its all a trade off.look at it from a different angle, if you miss half the hits you still deal more dmg then any mesmer torch skill, on half the cooldown and with questionable cast time.

You have the same 3s prep time if you want to get the most out of torch 4 on guard. Using the flip skill ends the effect on you and it has a really obvious animation and wind up. And again all it does is damage. It has 0 utility compared to mesmer torch.

There's more to skills than how much damage they do...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@"pninak.1069" said:I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.

this alone is about 9k burn dmg.1 skill. dunno how the rest works but the fact that 1 ability can whack people for over half HP, with no cast time on low cooldown AOE pulsing...oh and a passive that does the same every 10s. :D

How are you getting 9k?

mesmers torch burns for 3,5k. 1 stack for 9s.zealots does 4 stacks for 2s, so that equales 1 stack for 8s.on top of flip skill 3stacks for 3s = 1 stack for 9s, that already equals 17s burn if it was 1 stack. quick math thats 6,7k burn.add in power dmg, and radiant fire bonus burn duration and here ya go. about 9k, depending on the rune it could be much more, on mesmer im using hybrid.with balthazar I could see it being about 11-12k dmg over all if everything lands.

Ok but you're comparing a pure damage skill / weapon to one that does other effects and it more utility( blind, stealth). Not only that but you would have to stand near on directly on top of someone for 3s as well as making sure to hit the flip skill shot, which removes the passive effect.

I get what you're doing but something can look strong on paper but in practical application be nowhere near as powerful.

and then torch 4 can be easy dodged, its 1 hit not 4 spread over, you dont have to dodge it 4 times to negate the damage, expecially since you have 3s heads up, and 2x the cooldown. its all a trade off.look at it from a different angle, if you miss half the hits you still deal more dmg then any mesmer torch skill, on half the cooldown and with questionable cast time.

You have the same 3s prep time if you want to get the most out of torch 4 on guard. Using the flip skill ends the effect on you and it has a really obvious animation and wind up. And again all it does is damage. It has 0 utility compared to mesmer torch.

There's more to skills than how much damage they do...

ofc, but the fact remains that this is kill button on 15s cd. with the ammout of CC flying around it does too much damage.they gotta adress the CC first and see how it goes, doubt they will do a good job with their track record :Dbtw I would trade any torch skill for it any day on mesmer, even if it had 30s cd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Arheundel.6451 said:No burning classThe heck is a Burning class? Pretty much every class except Thief has at some point had a condi or hybrid build where Burning was used to a greater extent. From the top of my head it was the old Spirit Ranger's Sun Spirit alongside old Dhuumfire Necro and then it was Condi Engi for a while before the Cele Meta kicked into full shift and we had Shoutbow Warrs getting most of their pressure from Burning same with Cele D/D. The latter only got more stupid after Burning became stackable in the later pre-HoT times. And then we had that one condi Skullcrack Berserker that ran rampant in HoT for a time.

Burn Guard has on and off always been a thing and we always had that one guy in Plat~Leggy on EU that has basically been running Burn Guard as long as I can remember. Also, I don't think the build and it's variation is in any way a problem in the current meta.

In PoF we had Scourge cancering it up for real with map covering amounts of Burn and Torment and Mirage had a decent amount of Burning from Torch phantasm and staff as well mixed in with every other condi in the game prior to the nerfs. Although to be fair it was never the main problem about Mirage back then. But you'd definitely see Burning somewhere between 2nd and 4th spots of damage sources in the death recaps against Mirages.

All I'm saying is Burning should definitely have its multipliers and base damage lowered and skills can better be adjusted by simply increasing stacks since that gives Anet more freedom in adjusting stack to better fine-tune it. As it is right now just 2-3 stacks of maintained burning from a condi build are going to hurt and it's going to be a problem with any future build as well. It would alleviate the problem at least to some extent if individual Burning stacks did less damage.

And just so you know, just because I mentioned Thief being the only class that hasn't had a build that abused Burning I can absolutely guarantee you that it's now going to be a thing in the Cantha xpac. I'm calling it.

@Arheundel.6451 said:I'd say @Aktium.9506 was taking a nap inside purging flame, never tried to dodge/interrupt/blind spear of justice and generally just facetanking everything on his core necro build having lost the urge to actually dodge something...necro players are not used to dodging, at least a good 80% of them.

Nobody in this game can take that much burning dmg unless they're facetanking everything without dodging anything ...this draws a clear picture of the skill level involvedNow now, that's just not true. I use my dodge sometimes to spawn Lesser Mark of Blood =)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Best way to nerf Burning is to make Expertise no longer affect it.

Burning was designed to deal heavy DoT, but over a short duration of probably 1 - 2 seconds.What ended up happening was that Expertise allowed this heavy DoT to stack up and do damage over several seconds, which results in the problem we have right now.

In fact, this is an Expertise problem altogether.

Conditions should be balanced in this way :

  • Bleeding : Longest duration, stacks in intensity, perfect for consistent DoT damage.
  • Poison : Second longest duration, stacks in intensity, an alternative to Bleeding and does slightly more damage.
  • Torment and Confusion : Action based Conditions, SHOULD NOT stack in intensity, stacks in duration and should have their damage adjusted to reflect this.
  • Burning : Highest damage, shortest duration, Expertise does not affect it, or lower the scaling to 50% to benefit long duration Burn skills and render the stat useless for short duration Burns. (Stuff like Engineer Blowtorch for example, is pretty okay. Stuff like Spirit Blades stacking Burn per hit is not okay)

Torment and Confusion should punish players for using their respective actions, but not to the point where it deletes their health with every step or skill use.Long, extended duration would force these players to play under these effects for much longer if they have burnt a Cleanse prior, and have their current damage increased.

Burning should straight up not be allowed to stack to ridiculous amounts.Having alot of Burning is okay.Having alot of Burning that stacks up is not okay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"pninak.1069" said:I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.

this alone is about 9k burn dmg.1 skill. dunno how the rest works but the fact that 1 ability can whack people for over half HP, with no cast time on low cooldown AOE pulsing...oh and a passive that does the same every 10s. :D

Even on the most meme-iest of meme burn guard builds, taking absolutely everything to increase burn damage/duration, the most you can push that to is 5k.

It also has to hit 4 times, once per second for 4 seconds, in a radius of only 180 around the least mobile class in the game.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWgAs+lFwQYfsO2IO8KarNA-zZoCikEwZA

People just straight-up lying now at this point, the forums are fake news.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"pninak.1069" said:I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.

this alone is about 9k burn dmg.1 skill. dunno how the rest works but the fact that 1 ability can whack people for over half HP, with no cast time on low cooldown AOE pulsing...oh and a passive that does the same every 10s. :D

How are you getting 9k?

mesmers torch burns for 3,5k. 1 stack for 9s.zealots does 4 stacks for 2s, so that equales 1 stack for 8s.on top of flip skill 3stacks for 3s = 1 stack for 9s, that already equals 17s burn if it was 1 stack. quick math thats 6,7k burn.add in power dmg, and radiant fire bonus burn duration and here ya go. about 9k, depending on the rune it could be much more, on mesmer im using hybrid.with balthazar I could see it being about 11-12k dmg over all if everything lands.

Do you actually know how to play mesmer?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@"pninak.1069" said:I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.

this alone is about 9k burn dmg.1 skill. dunno how the rest works but the fact that 1 ability can whack people for over half HP, with no cast time on low cooldown AOE pulsing...oh and a passive that does the same every 10s. :D

Even on the most meme-iest of meme burn guard builds, taking absolutely everything to increase burn damage/duration, the most you can push that to is 6k.

People just straight-up lying now at this point, the forums are fake news.

you poor thing cant read, I feel bad for you XD.it legit does 11k burning on the build you posted, add in 1,1k power damage and you have 12k+ dmg.EDIT thx to you I realized it has 12s cd not 15, this ability alone has over 1k dps if used off cooldown XD

I can read fine, you can't write.

If you mean both the initial pulsing, and then the throw skill, you should have said so.

I legit DID say so, you just ignored it and got upset becouse you are guardian main.THIS IS WHAT I WROTE

Yeah, in a different post, written after I started to reply to the one that I actually quoted. Way to re-write history.

Also, I've never played a build that uses Torch, because it's just that bad. They could delete the entire weapon for all the difference it makes to me. So you can take the "bias" narrative and shove it.

5:11 PM my post.8:08 PM your post.you posted almost 3 Hours after my post. Instead of lying just admit that you didnt read everything, happens to everyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...